SBI, last two efforts: frost staff and 1h Mace need nerf and balance Will be complete

    • SBI, last two efforts: frost staff and 1h Mace need nerf and balance Will be complete

      In My opinion these two weapons are OP and unlike other weapons, are too much all around good to every content. From ganking to ZvZ.

      These two need rework and be good at niche content so other weapons have space to shine.
    • Mace isn't good for "every content".

      The smaller your pt get, the shittier the mace becomes.

      The bigger your pt get, the weaker it get compare to Groovekeeper.

      Mace also isn't good for ganking, it's somewhere at the bottom of the demounting weapon list. If you tag another player (on mount) with your mount then jump off to demount your target, it's a very hard feat to pull with the 1 hand mace.

      If there's is any weapon that's good for every content (or at least most), it's the freaking Grailseeker, which proved itself in CD, HG, ZvZ, and is the freaking god tier demounting weapon. 8 seconds roots that ignore all resistance from the mount, with a 20m range reach.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      Mace is every group ganking, group gvg and ZvZ due snare jump+ E. Of course groovekeeper it's better but doesnt mean it's not good.
      It's usable for ZvZ, not good.

      It's under average in ganking like I've explained above that you can't tag people to dismount with mace like you do with double bladed staff or grailseeker, and frost staff (don't know if it's still the case with the new E)

      The ganking group that does use mace because they are noob, so are the ones killed by those group.


      PaladinJavier wrote:

      It's too good for PVP Also.

      It's very good for mid size fights ranging from 4-5 men up to before ZvZ scale.

      The smaller your party get, the shittier it become. you can pair it with bloodletter for a decent roaming pair in the open world. But there are still better options.

      For CD, mistcaller + omelette mace run around in circle annoys people, but it's not the same as last patch staves because mistcaller + omelette mace loses brawl to EVERYTHING else in CD, so you can always walk slowly to shards and fending the mace off while doing so.

      You can't do the same to pre nerf Grailseeker because they had both escape and 1-shot capabilities.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • SpicyPepper wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      Mace is every group ganking, group gvg and ZvZ due snare jump+ E. Of course groovekeeper it's better but doesnt mean it's not good.
      It's usable for ZvZ, not good.
      It's under average in ganking like I've explained above that you can't tag people to dismount with mace like you do with double bladed staff or grailseeker, and frost staff (don't know if it's still the case with the new E)

      The ganking group that does use mace because they are noob, so are the ones killed by those group.


      PaladinJavier wrote:

      It's too good for PVP Also.
      It's very good for mid size fights ranging from 4-5 men up to before ZvZ scale.

      The smaller your party get, the shittier it become. you can pair it with bloodletter for a decent roaming pair in the open world. But there are still better options.

      For CD, mistcaller + omelette mace run around in circle annoys people, but it's not the same as last patch staves because mistcaller + omelette mace loses brawl to EVERYTHING else in CD, so you can always walk slowly to shards and fending the mace off while doing so.

      You can't do the same to pre nerf Grailseeker because they had both escape and 1-shot capabilities.
      Hell no. The CC of 1h Mace it's terrific. Every ganking group should have one. Noob ones are compos expecting people to not fight back. Being ganked by double bladed staff is a joke since is si easy to kill them. Or You pay whispers to gank people transporting like solo mammuths.
    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      Hell no. The CC of 1h Mace it's terrific. Every ganking group should have one.
      LoL I'm talking about 10-20 people taking over the entire zone tagging and killing anyone passing that map, not opportunistic ganking or standing on foot and waiting on the road.

      1h Mace CC look terrific on paper only.
      1. Long root doesn't mean shit if it doesn't reach the galloping mount. If you tag someone then jump off, by the the time you're off global cooldown your target's already gone out of Snare Charge reach, and you have no other mean to close that gap.
      2. Unlike Grailseeker where the CC completely ignore CC resistance of the mount, snare chare root lasts like ~ 1.5 seconds or less on the mount, followed by a less than 1 second stun from deep leap, then there's nothing else you can do, target get away.


      PaladinJavier wrote:

      Noob ones are compos expecting people to not fight back. Being ganked by double bladed staff is a joke since is si easy to kill them.
      The double bladed staff isn't there to kill you, they're only there to catch you.

      If you try to demount someone with a mace, spending your entire arsenal on the mount HP, then anyone can kill you too.

      Look here: youtu.be/oA_IRcfwxIY?t=88

      Look what happen to the gankers. I mounted up here and they wasted their entire arsenal on my war horse, and we wrecked 7 people with just 2.

      It's not specific to double bladed staff. Anyone can win a 1 v 1 (or even outnumbered) after getting demounted if they fight back, even against hard counter.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • j0ei wrote:

      RIP this game, corrupted dungeon players ruining the experience by requesting balancing around 1v1s specifically.
      LoL, that's can't be more to the point.

      Btw, Wind Wall is getting nerf to the ground too, because of . . . guess what . . . corrupted dungeon.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • Yeah mace is as bad as quarterstaff was - i stopped fighting them now cuz of the dumb low cooldown combo reset

      If they they win or lose a trade it doesn't matter cuz they just bop u away/sprint 1st reset and assassin jacket 2nd reset. By the time they have used the 2nd reset the 1st one is ready again.

      You just fight them over and over till u make a mistake and lose your composure and die..

      It wasn't to bad a couple weeks ago but now they are populating CD more than curse
    • BraveArt wrote:

      Yeah mace is as bad as quarterstaff was - i stopped fighting them now cuz of the dumb low cooldown combo reset

      If they they win or lose a trade it doesn't matter cuz they just bop u away/sprint 1st reset and assassin jacket 2nd reset. By the time they have used the 2nd reset the 1st one is ready again.

      You just fight them over and over till u make a mistake and lose your composure and die..

      It wasn't to bad a couple weeks ago but now they are populating CD more than curse
      The difference between mace and the staff is that mace have to stack cooldown to do the escape, staves had innate escaping capabilities.

      When you stack up cooldown like that you lose stats and you'll lose brawl to almost everything. Unless you fucked yourself up royally, you will always win and drive CDR mace away (either to kill him eventually or to break the shards).

      That's not the case for the old staves, because they could escape with 0 CDR (even better than mace+mistcaller+omelette), and they can kill you even when you don't royally fuck yourself up.

      Mace+Taproot+Sandwich (disclosure: I run this) is a very good brawler, but they can't reset like the cooldown mace does. So it's fair.

      Good brawler => can't reset unless against sth with zero mobility.
      Good mobility => lose every brawl.

      Plate bloodletter + taproot is a very good counter to the cooldown mace. The first always win brawl and have the mobility to chase him down to finish the job.
      Pike + Cleric robe is also very good.
      The idea is that mace+cdr is squishy and low damage, so you kill them with high mobility build (because everything can win the brawl), or sth that finish the fight less in 5 seconds so the cdr doesn't mean anything.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • Again all the weapon "balance" issues almost always are due to infinite reset. Fix the design to not allow infinite reset and no need to touch the weapons. They would actually be punished for missing combos (1h mace) or just playing with pure escape builds (1h frost using knight or assassin chest). These builds are only OP because everything that can counter them or have a fighting chance against them also cannot catch them.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Tabor ().

    • devs must understand that CC or DMG or MOBILITY cannot be that all 3 things are in one weapon like 1h mace. and that beloved boop helm .. CC face combo and BOOP: D frustration lvl 300 and the best thing is that you can't do anything, even if you somehow beat it, it's invisibility from the jacket and COMBO replay:
      of course only frost has a chance to kill it, or some 1 shot buidl like grailseeker or 1h dagger .. or the guy must be terribly weak..

      There aren't many weapons left that can "crack" the code
      and looking at the last 3-4 meta weapons it was always something with CC and boop helm .. I don't understand why it takes so long to correct it .. one year since plate CC etc .. it's always on top3 CD the same with frost .. from the very beginning is above the rest of the weapons.
      we finally have an additional debuff in the form of healing reduction, now you have to go with the punch and add the rest of the things that make some weapons too strong, you won't cry that in the open world something is not working after the nerf.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Quagga ().

    • Quagga wrote:

      devs must understand that CC or DMG or MOBILITY cannot be that all 3 things are in one weapon like 1h mace. and that beloved boop helm .. CC face combo and BOOP: D frustration lvl 300 and the best thing is that you can't do anything, even if you somehow beat it, it's invisibility from the jacket and COMBO replay:
      of course only frost has a chance to kill it, or some 1 shot buidl like grailseeker or 1h dagger .. or the guy must be terribly weak..

      There aren't many weapons left that can "crack" the code
      and looking at the last 3-4 meta weapons it was always something with CC and boop helm .. I don't understand why it takes so long to correct it .. one year since plate CC etc .. it's always on top3 CD the same with frost .. from the very beginning is above the rest of the weapons.
      we finally have an additional debuff in the form of healing reduction, now you have to go with the punch and add the rest of the things that make some weapons too strong, you won't cry that in the open world something is not working after the nerf.
      1H mace was beatable by bearpaws merc, but they nerfed axes just because of CD so... technically a lot of the meta weapons that could kill 1h mace were slowly shifted out of the meta.
    • j0ei wrote:

      1H mace was beatable by bearpaws merc, but they nerfed axes just because of CD so... technically a lot of the meta weapons that could kill 1h mace were slowly shifted out of the meta.
      which does not change the fact that in the open world whether HG or CD is super strong and requires virtually nothing but spam spells .. u can be ganked by flat 4 shiters with 2 maces in group and u can do literally nothing cuz u are stun and root 24/7 .. its noob friendly weapon way too noob friendly.. (most of people what use it dont even know about) :
      Iframe,root,stun,interupt,2 movement abilities with decent dmg and low CDR. perfect synergy with caerleon cape.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Quagga ().

    • Quagga wrote:

      which does not change the fact that in the open world whether HG or CD is super strong and requires virtually nothing but spam spells .. u can be ganked by flat 4 shiters with 2 maces in group and u can do literally nothing cuz u are stun and root 24/7 .. its noob friendly weapon way too noob friendly.. (most of people what use it dont even know about) :Iframe,root,stun,interupt,2 movement abilities with decent dmg and low CDR. perfect synergy with caerleon cape.
      Case and point, if other weapons weren't nerfed the way they were now. Those weapons would be able to compete against the 1h mace without problems. But, nerfs came, now 1hmace is the meta. We'll be hearing more ppl cry about it more than ever.