How do people feel about 10v10 Hellgates currently?

    • How do people feel about 10v10 Hellgates currently?

      I am oddly invested in the idea of 10v10 content. I have a strong feeling that this is just about the largest sized instanced content that the game can support competitively, and that it could be a strong draw to the game. I think that 10v10 Hellgates should be among the highest paying content in the game.

      So on release, all I heard about them was complaints, and from the prices of the hellgate maps, and the volumes they were selling at, I could tell this content was sort of DOA on release. But, since then they buffed hellgate loot significantly. Now I don't really hear anything about them and I don't know if that is good or bad. Maps are certainly more expensive now.

      I think that SBI should go so far as to consider replacing the 20v20 crystal league with a 10v10 crystal league. In the interests of having that specific content be popular enough to produce enough teams to keep it competitive at multiple skill levels.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
      Demon Lord - UwU
    • 10's is hit or miss content. The fights are fun and the loot is good, it's a more brawly and chaotic version of 5s.

      It's main issue is player base. With a few exceptions (EU timers are the most populated afaik), some timers may only have 2-4 simultaneous teams, and teams tend to have a pretty clear hierarchy.
      Teams having a 70%+ winrate in matchups with other teams is from my experience much more common than teams having 50-50 winrates amongst themselves from comp and player diffs.
      It's a really common occurrence in 5s/10s gates for teams to disband early if unable to find a fairish matchup to have the econ make sense to keep playing, so timers can be effectively bullied out by one team bored waiting for challengers.

      I think top infamy players need to spend some slightly more time in PvE, not because it's fun, but so an ecosystem of mediocre teams that may eventually become real teams has space to grow.
    • +1 to everything decand is saying. The pool of people actively playing 10v10 Hellgates is almost for sure less than 100, probably around or less than 50 people (assuming there isn't some booming OCE scene I'm unaware of).

      Every now and then a new team (usually fully formed by one guild or another) will come into lethal 10s and 9/10 times they get absolutely demolished by one of the higher level 10s teams, then they disband.

      And even more rarely 2-3 new teams will start playing around the same time, and the top teams won't be playing. These are honestly probably some of the healthiest times for 10v10s.

      In theory non-lethals are supposed to be practice for lethals, but in practice the difficulty spike is so big that they end up being poor practice.

      While I do think a 10v10 crystal environment would be cool, I don't think it makes sense as a replacement for 20s, and it would have the same issues as 20s where most teams can't play level 2+. And I don't really know that there are better solutions for 10s matchmaking other than "have a much larger population playing 10s". If more mediocre teams started playing, it'd be way harder for good teams to bully everyone out.
    • They are in the process of dying, I alarmed devs new pvp players will never stick around mainly because the pve rewards are so freaking bad.30k silver for 5-6mins clearing.If you get a fight its vs crystal players and 50/50 chance to win.There is no way you're going to have many players in that enviroment 1-2teams is going to dominate all until they are the only one left.The amount of maps purchased is already as low as when it was pre patch and its getting worse everyday.If they wanted more teams to go in rewards need to go through the roof.So that even winning 1 fight would feel rewarding.Atm its not.
    • For what it's worth the state of nonlethal 10s / 5s from what I've seen is really healthy.

      I think a long time ago people floated the idea of 10s timers for lethals, still not sure how I feel about it but concentrating the potential playerbase into smaller time-frames might help the simultaneous matchmaking problem some. 10s when there's even teams is a blast, but the current system design doesn't really encourage this to naturally happen.
    • I think that the difficulty to get 10 people together and keep them together for prolonged periods of time needs to be rewarded extremely well. And the way to tell if content is rewarding players well is how much players engage in that content.

      I'd like to see SBI increase the rewards until they see a similar amount of participation compared to 2s and 5s.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
      Demon Lord - UwU
    • look my friend, the game strategy is simply differgent.

      On one hand u go mobile and even don't give future outlook cause busy with mobile on the other hand you implement game modes that are not really that good on mobile..

      Look if u go play 10 on 10 the time invest is significant. It is no content rapidly available.

      You need the team, have them all commited for a longer time, need them on stable connect, need planing..that's no on demand content - but heavy planning needed.

      On mobile you want to instant consume your content. That's why CD is the most played content.

      On top the skill gap for 10 on 10 is heavy, the gear invest high, and if u put in more rewards..you attract even more pro teams..

      Which reduces the amount of people play it even more..

      So my conclusion, even u give higher rewards it will not change anything. It will just attract better players that destroy any casual..so community will remain small..

      Recommend to change the game mode to 3 on 3 or 1 on 1.
      Or accept that it is for a total community 100 people max..

      Everyone who played 5 on 5 knew, that there was cause of this reasons ..even reward cool, just 2 teams in mostly..and now you come with 10.. didn't u learn from playing 5 on 5??

      Dear devs, just ask yourself..what is the use case..

      1) you need heavy pvp people
      2) you need competitive people
      3) you need people with undisturbed 2+ hours in one peace
      4) you need people that consistent meet 1-3) all week and want to spend their time each day on this game
      5) people need be high skill or wealthy to support the learning curve..

      Conclusion: community small, content for max 100 people over entire time 7x24

      Why you do this?? Or how does your expectation on target picture look like??

      Did you expect someone opens group finder, add 10 on 10..at once 9 people join, all go same discord, are happy to play 2 hours...

      And next day same thing works with different people?? Seriously? That was the expectations and use case??

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Trial_hard ().

    • Just after update there was enough teams running that you don't always meet super pro teams.If they buff loot properly so that even doing 1pve gate would pay for your gear no one would mind dying in the next ones, the main thing is being able to sustain gates, there is enough discords around to find people its not that hard.But when one guy says sorry guys I'm out of sets the other 9 can't do anything.
    • Dahweed wrote:

      Just after update there was enough teams running that you don't always meet super pro teams.If they buff loot properly so that even doing 1pve gate would pay for your gear no one would mind dying in the next ones, the main thing is being able to sustain gates, there is enough discords around to find people its not that hard.But when one guy says sorry guys I'm out of sets the other 9 can't do anything.
      if one pve gate would pay off then farm teams would start..and try to leave..what u have to do anyway after the pve to safe u loot...

      I do think, and don't beat me, it would be more convenient and better for the game if u have a huge chest inside CD / HG u can store items..u can even do a run with 50 pots and food, of course u need to win the engagement to access u chest..and u can take things out or put in if boss is dead / enemy dead...u still have the logistics and gank risk on way out to bank..but that would allow more consistent game play..
    • Piddle wrote:

      I think that the difficulty to get 10 people together and keep them together for prolonged periods of time needs to be rewarded extremely well. And the way to tell if content is rewarding players well is how much players engage in that content.

      I'd like to see SBI increase the rewards until they see a similar amount of participation compared to 2s and 5s.

      You're right, but increasing the loot to an extreme level causes people from one guild to do HG CTA and fight with each other, bank all loot and share it, it's a win = win situation. then we have to ask where is risk = reward ?

      10v10 is too much for daily content, adding something in the open world something like avalonian arena with special ranks/titles or a set with high prizes for special hours would be something cool.. HG not everyone likes the PVE system and the time you spend on the farm, where most of the players' HG already has specialization .. I think that this way should be SBI and instead of 10v10 HG a better solution would be to add 3v3.
      generally too much of this PVE .. sometimes I have the impression that the game forces me to farm.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Quagga ().