New attack timers: Is Albion territory pvp supposed to only be truly accessible to the unemployed?

  • marksteele wrote:

    Kimsemus wrote:

    marksteele wrote:

    Kimsemus wrote:

    marksteele wrote:

    Karma wrote:


    This is not viable.

    Redzones don´t have silver cost so the gap between having a place there and in others zone is HUGE.


    Ok but what about options 2 and 3? This game is PVP ORIENTED, yes they have added other things for people to do but the fact remains that the core of the game revolves around the fight for territories. You're trying to cripple that entire concept because it's too hard for you.....


    The problem in either case is if you don't come up with a system that accommodates both large guilds and small guilds of differing play styles and commitment levels, you won't have a game, you will have an empty, barren wasteland of twitch streaming tryhards wandering aimlessly trying to find each other, because everyone else will have left.

    You have to do what is the MOST fun and MOST fair for the MOST people.


    Except that's impossible. The very nature of this game means that larger guilds will have an advantage. What you suggest will simply make the hardcore PvPers leave and at the end of it all you will still loose the territory it just takes 3 days rather than 1 and a half.


    Respectfully, most of the hardcore PVPers will just join guilds capable of providing their content.

    Also you need to think in terms of revenue -- does the game survive because 50 people leave, or 5000?


    this game caters to the hardcore audience. I think you will find they are in the majority here unlike in other games

    Suzera wrote:

    I'm sure you can figure out a way to attack people if there's a 24 hour delay.

    I'd much rather break up the pyramid scheme structure of the game by making it easier for smaller guilds to survive.


    but that doesn't make it easier to survive it just means that rather than focusing on taking one territory in one and a half days, bigger guilds will launch 2 attacks at the same time and take 2 territories in 3 days.

    (also what's with this 2 minute posting cooldown time ><)


    This game is being developed cross platform on PC, tablets, android devices, and iphones, so respectfully, I disagree.

    There is a way to appease both audiences though. Reduced timers are not that way.

    A peaceful land, a quiet people. That has always been my rule.
    • so first of all we have no hard feelings towards these timers if you can agree on something we are happy to adjust to it.
    • please differentiate between the two different teritories.
    • so normal territories 24h is cool but ...
    • IMPORTANT: the smaller the timer for the resource territory is the higher the probability that a smaller guild can take away an essence territory from a normaly stronger guild for a few hours.
    • essences are important for high level weapons
    • so i believe that by having 12h timers for resource territories you are significantly reducing the availability of these resources to smaller/weaker guilds
    • please be aware we are talking about a 4 hour window which you can choose.
    • but as i said i personally have no agenda here. if the majority of the players prefers a higher timer for resource territories i am fine with that.

    kr,
    Stefan
  • Swordlord wrote:

    Small guilds and big guilds should have different goals, priorities, and war plans.
    As it is right now big, small, yellow, red, it doesn't matter. It's all the same story. Funnel all resources to your unemployed 5v5 team. The more members you have to funnel and specialize, the better geared they are.
    It's a silly system that only allows a select few to actually contribute to combat.


    @Bercilak a lot of us LIKE these timers, it's just (as in most things) the people who don't are louder than those who do.

    Kimsemus wrote:

    This game is being developed cross platform on PC, tablets, android devices, and iphones, so respectfully, I disagree.

    There is a way to appease both audiences though. Reduced timers are not that way.


    Albion was literally built from the perspective of a PvP endgame. Look back at the post history all the way to the first alpha and you will understand.


    edit: To quote korn "One of the core design goals for Albion Online is to provide exciting, full loot PvP and GvG on a constant basis. This will largely happen in the unrestricted red zones of the game."

    Relationship between safe zones and PvP zones
  • -24h for Normal Territories and Farm Territories
    -Do whatever for resource territories but add a penalty for attacking from them. Most guilds are using them as platforms for attacks, not for resources. Also remove the caves from them or make it so fame is not gained from the caves in resource territories. Safe fame farming should not exist.
  • Bercilak wrote:


    • so first of all we have no hard feelings towards these timers if you can agree on something we are happy to adjust to it.
    • please differentiate between the two different teritories.
    • so normal territories 24h is cool but ...
    • IMPORTANT: the smaller the timer for the resource territory is the higher the probability that a smaller guild can take away an essence territory from a normaly stronger guild for a few hours.
    • essences are important for high level weapons
    • so i believe that by having 12h timers for resource territories you are significantly reducing the availability of these resources to smaller/weaker guilds
    • please be aware we are talking about a 4 hour window which you can choose.
    • but as i said i personally have no agenda here. if the majority of the players prefers a higher timer for resource territories i am fine with that.

    kr,
    Stefan


    12 hours is a reasonable compromise.

    1) It allows the defender, presumably, an entire day cycle leading up to their defense allows preparation.
    2) It allows the attacker to better alert their members and finish material farming.
    3) It creates the instability you want, as it is still twice as fast as attacking town plots.

    -however-

    A) Farms should be on a 24h timer, as you still build a lot on them and invest a lot.

    B) There should be a COOLDOWN on attacking once a resource, or ANY territory is attacked successfully. This CD should be 12-24 hours before someone can declare an attack on the new owner.

    A peaceful land, a quiet people. That has always been my rule.
  • If a guild wants to make 2 attacks that is fine with me. I am just concerned with having to bat phone things and be on call all day for notification. At least small guilds will know to show up for the 2 attacks if there's a 24+ hour delay and they log in every day. At 12 hours even logging on once per day isn't always sufficient.
  • futile wrote:

    -24h for Normal Territories and Farm Territories
    -Do whatever for resource territories but add a penalty for attacking from them. Most guilds are using them as platforms for attacks, not for resources. Also remove the caves from them or make it so fame is not gained from the caves in resource territories. Safe fame farming should not exist.


    The caves are part of the reward for having the territory. 12 hours is MORE than enough for regular territories. I do agree about the fact that guilds are using resource territories as as platforms to attack, what they might do then is add say a 1 day cool-down on a resource territory where you can't attack from it?

    Suzera wrote:

    If a guild wants to make 2 attacks that is fine with me. I am just concerned with having to bat phone things and be on call all day for notification. At least small guilds will know to show up for the 2 attacks if there's a 24+ hour delay and they log in every day. At 12 hours even logging on once per day isn't always sufficient.


    I feel like your ignoring my point about PvP and GvG being the core game experience.....
  • Bercilak wrote:

    • so first of all we have no hard feelings towards these timers if you can agree on something we are happy to adjust to it.
    • please differentiate between the two different teritories.
    • so normal territories 24h is cool but ...
    • IMPORTANT: the smaller the timer for the resource territory is the higher the probability that a smaller guild can take away an essence territory from a normaly stronger guild for a few hours.
    • essences are important for high level weapons
    • so i believe that by having 12h timers for resource territories you are significantly reducing the availability of these resources to smaller/weaker guilds
    • please be aware we are talking about a 4 hour window which you can choose.
    • but as i said i personally have no agenda here. if the majority of the players prefers a higher timer for resource territories i am fine with that.

    kr,
    Stefan


    Do you think the risk in mats invested to try that attack against a good guild is worth in return (i mean controlling that territory for 3 hours)?

    Farms should be harder to take than resources territories and easier than normal territories.

    So they should have a 24hour aswell and require 2 attacks to be taken.
  • Bercilak wrote:


    • so first of all we have no hard feelings towards these timers if you can agree on something we are happy to adjust to it.
    • please differentiate between the two different teritories.
    • so normal territories 24h is cool but ...
    • IMPORTANT: the smaller the timer for the resource territory is the higher the probability that a smaller guild can take away an essence territory from a normaly stronger guild for a few hours.
    • essences are important for high level weapons
    • so i believe that by having 12h timers for resource territories you are significantly reducing the availability of these resources to smaller/weaker guilds
    • but as i said i personally have no agenda here. if the majority of the players prefers a higher timer for resource territories i am fine with that.

    kr,
    Stefan

    24 hours is indeed a more reasonable time for Town Territories.

    Resource territories are just a win/lose scenario. It only takes one battle. Even if resource territories were also 24 hours, they would still flip flop all the time because you only need to win once.
    Failing at a battle means losing a lot of gear. You say small guilds will have a reduced the availability of resources if its 12 hours, but how fast do you think a group can scrounge up many sets of gear for a battle after getting wiped out in the first place?

    24 for towns
    12+ for resources
    I can't imagine anything shorter than that working.

    Unless you guys can figure out a better system to separate small guilds from large ones.
  • 12 hours at least means you can just check in before the first attack slice and be covered at least. 12 hours would be generally livable I think, but I'd still like to see something like 24h and 28h for resource and base territories respectively.

    At 12h and 24h I'd probably at least try it in beta. At 3h I'd just pull my hair out.
  • Perhaps a compromise is in order here:

    Red zones: Current system
    -12 hours notice for attacks on building territories
    -3 on farms and resource territories

    Yellow Zones: Semi-Hardcore friendly
    -24 hours notice for attacks on farm or building territories
    -6 hours for resource territories
    -1 day cooldown before launching an attack on another territory from a newly obtained one
  • marksteele wrote:

    The caves are part of the reward for having the territory. 12 hours is MORE than enough for regular territories. I do agree about the fact that guilds are using resource territories as as platforms to attack, what they might do then is add say a 1 day cool-down on a resource territory where you can't attack from it?

    One day cooldown is fine, perhaps also negative defender bonus too. As for the caves, the issue is still that risk-free T6 mob fame grinding shouldn't exist. Restrict everything inside of them to T4 or turn off the fame gain.
  • futile wrote:

    marksteele wrote:

    The caves are part of the reward for having the territory. 12 hours is MORE than enough for regular territories. I do agree about the fact that guilds are using resource territories as as platforms to attack, what they might do then is add say a 1 day cool-down on a resource territory where you can't attack from it?

    One day cooldown is fine, perhaps also negative defender bonus too. As for the caves, the issue is still that risk-free T6 mob fame grinding shouldn't exist. Restrict everything inside of them to T4 or turn off the fame gain.


    perhaps a fame penalty or something for them? I mean the dungeon is basically the entire point of a treasure territory

    Suzera wrote:

    Mark I'm phone posting so I can't quote you, but there will still be plenty of pvp. I'm not saying to limit attacks to 1 per week or whatever. So I don't know what point you're trying to make.


    The point I'm trying to make is if it takes 3 days to take a building territory then it goes against the idea of "constant GvG", the reward would simply not be worth the time and effort, not to mention you need to get a set of 5 people on at the same time 3 days in a row vs 2 days
  • You still get to fight every day, and even get an extra day of fighting. Look, it's more constant pvp.

    And you probably wouldn't get two attacks on a building plot in one day at a 6 hour timer either unless the defender spreads their time blocks 2 hours more than needed. Unless you had two adjoining territories, in which case you could do it with a 24 hour timer too.
  • marksteele wrote:

    futile wrote:

    marksteele wrote:

    The caves are part of the reward for having the territory. 12 hours is MORE than enough for regular territories. I do agree about the fact that guilds are using resource territories as as platforms to attack, what they might do then is add say a 1 day cool-down on a resource territory where you can't attack from it?

    One day cooldown is fine, perhaps also negative defender bonus too. As for the caves, the issue is still that risk-free T6 mob fame grinding shouldn't exist. Restrict everything inside of them to T4 or turn off the fame gain.


    perhaps a fame penalty or something for them? I mean the dungeon is basically the entire point of a treasure territory

    Suzera wrote:

    Mark I'm phone posting so I can't quote you, but there will still be plenty of pvp. I'm not saying to limit attacks to 1 per week or whatever. So I don't know what point you're trying to make.


    The point I'm trying to make is if it takes 3 days to take a building territory then it goes against the idea of "constant GvG", the reward would simply not be worth the time and effort, not to mention you need to get a set of 5 people on at the same time 3 days in a row vs 2 days


    Under your view of how the game should be, then only extremely large alliances would stand any chance at owning territory. Out of those hundreds of people, only the 5 most dedicated h4dc0r3 gamers would be able to experience GvG combat. What else is everyone else going to do? Do quests to save up 190 skeleton boners to buy a new reputation cloak to use in PVE?

    Instead of having a few behemoth alliances duke it out for world domination, a system where smaller guilds and alliance can thrive will generate more organic conflicts and battles between neighbors. There will be more 5v5 teams contributing to more overall fights.
  • Swordlord wrote:


    Under your view of how the game should be, then only extremely large alliances would stand any chance at owning territory. Out of those hundreds of people, only the 5 most dedicated h4dc0r3 gamers would be able to experience GvG combat. What else is everyone else going to do? Do quests to save up 190 skeleton boners to buy a new reputation cloak?

    Instead of having a few behemoth alliances duke it out for world domination, a system where smaller guilds and alliance can thrive will generate more organic conflicts and battles between neighbors. There will be more 5v5 teams contributing to more overall fights.


    Again, how does this help smaller guilds? The same outcome will result (I doubt a smaller guild could match the gear tier of a larger one) it will just take 3 days rather than 2.

    The advantage that bigger guilds have over smaller ones is not the result of attack notification notices. Its a fundamental part of the game, they progress faster, have more silver, more food, and more people.