Frost E area is ridiculous

    • For some weapon they are easier to chase now comparing to before. It's neither a complete buff nor nerf from solo play perspective.

      For example, freezing wind used to stop snare charge (mace) mid flight, while it's the other way around now that you can easily use snare charge to dodge the root from freezing wind.

      I guess the big AOE is so that people don't just simply walk away from it, considering the new delay.

      That's said, the ridiculous part of the bigger area is how many people it hit in group fight. You can close you eyes while using the spell and you will still hit 2-3 people with it.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by SpicyPepper ().

    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      bro, wth with this AOE. They spam E and teleport + boots till next combo.
      Nerf this crap.
      Nerf this crap?
      . Frost dps is shit, you can't fairly stand and trade with nobody
      . They have to aim every single Q3, and with that cast time it's easy to dodge them.
      . Q1 (no auto aim) has the lowest damage across all weapon's Q skills on every tree.
      . W2 which is mandatory already got nerfed, now it barely does any damage and unless you are against melees it's impossible to land it, because you just can't stand and trade.
      . The are is barely the same size as before, only back before the nerf you wouldn't notice it because of the wacky animation.
      . And the worst part, because of how the skill set is designed, frost can't punish you properly for any mistakes except chasing blindly non stop.
      You can fuck up hundred times against a frost and he won't kill you, but if he fucks up one single Q, or W or a split second of greed they are instantly dead.

      If you encounter a frost that only hits E and run away, just turn around, eat a regen food and thats it. Don't chase him blindly and wait for one mistake he makes, or run to crystals to bait him.
    • Clasics wrote:

      Frost dps is shit,
      This is actually a lie , it is very strong , and no most frost builds do not need to kite, this is only true versus lock on builds that do equal damage to frost.

      Also the only real skill shot frost has is its q spell, but calling that monstrosity of an aoe a "Skill shot" is hilarious. Frost also barely gets punished for its mistakes due to the high skill expression in the builds. That combined with high damage and low cooldown spells. The weapon is literally insanely strong and barely takes anytime to learn.


      Just to put things into perspective.

      Frost has a total positive performance rate of 72% and a negative performance rate of 28%

      Its total average win-rate is Above 56% which means most frost builds sit above a 60 - 70 percent win-rate.


      Even if we factor in cloth frost , leather frost , and plate frost, they all sit above a 60 - 80% win-rate.


      This means on average most frost players are winning the vast majority of their fights with very few deaths. This is also factoring in the very high usage rate of these builds. Meaning there are an enormous amount of frost players currently playing in CD's and open world(Stats here will of course vary).

      If we look at the performance rate of 72%.This easily tells us that if i chose a random weapon and a random build to fight against frost, frost has a 72% chance to come out on top. That is any frost build btw.


      These stats easily translates into the individual weapon match ups as well. Lets take curse skull for example, which currently has one of the highest average win rates, performance rates and usage rate sin the game. Which is also considered a tough matchup for Frost players, despite this Frost still has a 49 - 50 percent chance win.

      This combined with its performance rate of 72% and its average win rate of 56% means that an individual frost player with even the slightest bit of skill over their cure skull counterpart, wins the fight.


      And of course we can also factor in frost performance in other areas of the game, such as perma frost blowing up zergs , q spam. Frost catch in ganking blinking 2 screens away. Frost in 5v5, 2v2 (old hell-gates with qutaerstaff) 10v10, 20v20.It has high usage rate and sees play everywhere.


      So calling this weapons' dps weak or "hard to play" is a joke when you look at the numbers and the overall performance of this weapon.

      And to close out, if you look at the leader boards all frost players , even in the lowest bracket fall in the highest percentile of players. Same as curse btw.

      So either frost players are delusional or the weapon is very strong , as indicated by the data.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by moking ().

    • Also just to finish up. for comparisons sake

      Compare that to swords that have an average win-rate of 46%

      An average performance rate of 40 - 43%

      and the top swords players fall in the bottom percentile of their bracket on the leader board. Its no longer played in 2's ,5's , at all in 10's or 20's.

      Unlike frost it has actually received dozens of compounding nerfs as evident by the NDA patch notes since brutus update. While frost has seen very small adjustments that are not even nerfs. The last actual real nerf to this weapon, was when they lowered the damage of frost aoe q. Because it was blowing players and mobs up.

      And unlike frost , if a sword player misteps, even slightly they lose the fight. Even with a pre-stack the odds are against you, which ironically is what created the pre-stacking mentality in the first place. Because sword players saw there were no way in hell you can trade with the meta weapons' that all boast and average win-rate of 70% with no advantage. Its possible but still highly unlikely you will make a profit in slayer as a sword player without losing your mind. Even if the individual win rate of the sword player is high, i highly doubt they make any profit. At least no where near the level of a frost.
    • Clasics wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      bro, wth with this AOE. They spam E and teleport + boots till next combo.
      Nerf this crap.
      Nerf this crap?. Frost dps is shit, you can't fairly stand and trade with nobody
      This is a LAWL. Have you tried fire? Have your tried Arcane? You don't get to stand still as a caster unless you go curse.

      Correction: If you go against someone competent you don't get to stand still and trade. You have to kite. At least frost actually has the ability to kite solo. Too many abilities can go through fire wall. Arcane can purge, and with mimic you can stand to trade against certain classes, but all in all- frost has insane mobility, and CC
    • moking wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      Frost dps is shit,
      This is actually a lie , it is very strong , and no most frost builds do not need to kite, this is only true versus lock on builds that do equal damage to frost.

      - The whole kit around frost 1h is designed around kiting, wtf are you even talking about? Even plate frosts play around kite and reset. Every weapon outdamages frost 1h in CD, cursed, xbows, bows, spears.

      Also the only real skill shot frost has is its q spell, but calling that monstrosity of an aoe a "Skill shot" is hilarious. Frost also barely gets punished for its mistakes due to the high skill expression in the builds. That combined with high damage and low cooldown spells. The weapon is literally insanely strong and barely takes anytime to learn.

      - A Q spell with casting time, that nails you to the ground, and that is really easy to avoid, the fact you call it monstruosity tells me you are not a skilled player at all. Is not hard to move around between hits.


      Just to put things into perspective.

      Frost has a total positive performance rate of 72% and a negative performance rate of 24%

      Its total average win-rate is Above 56% which means most frost builds sit above a 60 - 70 percent win-rate.


      Even if we factor in cloth frost , leather frost , and plate frost, they all sit above a 60 - 80% win-rate.


      This means on average most frost players are winning the vast majority of their fights with very few deaths. This is also factoring in the very high usage rate of these builds. Meaning there are an enormous amount of frost players currently playing in CD's and open world(Stats here will of course vary).

      If we look at the performance rate of 72%.This easily tells us that if i chose a random weapon and a random build to fight against frost, frost has a 72% chance to come out on top. That is any frost build btw.

      - So tell me, where this data comes from? How do we know this is strictly about CD, do you even remember we are talking about the n1 undisputed gank weapon? If a lot of people grab a frost 1h and go hunt farmers, stats will tell frosts are winning a lot of 1v1 encounters, but what does that really mean when we are talking about CD and only cd.


      These stats easily translates into the individual weapon match ups as well. Lets take curse skull for example, which currently has one of the highest average win rates, performance rates and usage rate sin the game. Which is also considered a tough matchup for Frost players, despite this Frost still has a 49 - 50 percent chance win.

      This combined with its performance rate of 72% and its average win rate of 56% means that an individual frost player with even the slightest bit of skill over their cure skull counterpart, wins the fight.


      - This part tells me you haven't even tried frost yet you talk just out of your ass, forum warrior, go grab a 1h frost and spam corrupteds till you encounter a cursed skull, then come back here and tell me how easy that fight was for you.. Dumb stupid comments I have to read, curse skull is one of the hardest matchups right now, and even when playing perfectly, if the cursed player uses spectre hood, it will be a nightmare. And this comes from a cloth frost who only wears mage robe.

      And of course we can also factor in frost performance in other areas of the game, such as perma frost blowing up zergs , q spam. Frost catch in ganking blinking 2 screens away. Frost in 5v5, 2v2 (old hell-gates with qutaerstaff) 10v10, 20v20.It has high usage rate and sees play everywhere.


      - How conveniently, while we are discussing about 1h frost in corrupted dungeons, you come here and spill tons of data we don't know shit about (where it was collected, by who, in what circunstances) and then you redirect the focus to the other weapons in the tree, if we are talking about dps capabilities in 1v1 scenarios why the fuck you even bring ganking or zvz to the convo. Also you're statment of "this weapon is used a lot that must means it has good damage" Is the most stupid thing i've read so far, so let me understand, a lot of people use maces, is that because it's damage is busted? No dumbo, it's because it has some utility that players need, same as frost, it has a shit ton of cc, if damage is what people are looking for, they invite a xbow, a cursed, a fire staff and so on, not a frost for dps, they use frost for cc and utility. The decent damage is expected because it's a dps weapon after all, but it's not the heaviest hitting dps weapon out there. Compared to fire staves or xbows it's not even close.

      So calling this weapons' dps weak or "hard to play" is a joke when you look at the numbers and the overall performance of this weapon.


      - You analize random stats taken from tons of different game modes, then you manipulate them all to your advantage to prove your point and you don't even realize all you are trully showing is you have really low experience in game, and a lot of experience reading stats (not analyzing them because if that was the case you wouldn't use worldwide stats to talk about one specific weapon, specially if this weapon is the king of gank weapons)
      If you played enough, and actually tried frost you should know, that in order for a frost to kill an opponent in a 1v1 scenario, you need 12 to 15 seconds of Q spams with morgana cape active, either that or consecutive good trades of landing E a few Q and kiting away without getting hit, now if you are stupid enough to endlessly chase your target until you die, if you have no hips as you shown, or you are stupid enough to stay still eating those 12 to 15 sec of dps, then the problem is on you not on X weapon.


      And to close out, if you look at the leader boards all frost players , even in the lowest bracket fall in the highest percentile of players. Same as curse btw.


      - Dude can you log off the forum and get in the game for a change? Babyguega top infamy player for months, started playing frost and lost his n1 spot, in a week, he is the only frost on top 10 right now and we don't even know if he continues to play frost, the other 9 use either cursed skull, tombhammer, or avalonian staff, how can you drop so much bullshit together, you are so biased it hurts to read.


      So either frost players are delusional or the weapon is very strong , as indicated by the data.

      - Again data collected across all game modes, aka not accuarate at all, as I stated earlier if tomorrow hundred players grab frost 1h and go hunt solo farmers, your data will explode, and you will come here crying oh frost is op look at this success rate, yet all they were doing is hunting farmers, not actually fighting pvp dedicated players. BIASED


      - I'll close with a short story, a few days ago i was watching humperdinck, he was going against a trinder player, this dude wasted his whole E and W against humper's cleric cowl, humper got every skill up except for morgana cape, but decided since he had a bit more hp and a healing pot he would go all in an trade, the spear guy blasted him, with no E, no W, just spamming auto, and why did he won? Because humper missed 1 single Q, 1 single Q cost him his 8.3 set, and you come here and tell me frosts can't be punished, what an idiot.
      I used bold just to clarify which were my replies and your's, I don't even know how to do multiple quotes, I don't spend much time in here.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Clasics ().

    • moking wrote:

      Also just to finish up. for comparisons sake

      Compare that to swords that have an average win-rate of 46%

      An average performance rate of 40 - 43%

      and the top swords players fall in the bottom percentile of their bracket on the leader board. Its no longer played in 2's ,5's , at all in 10's or 20's.

      Unlike frost it has actually received dozens of compounding nerfs as evident by the NDA patch notes since brutus update. While frost has seen very small adjustments that are not even nerfs. The last actual real nerf to this weapon, was when they lowered the damage of frost aoe q. Because it was blowing players and mobs up.

      And unlike frost , if a sword player misteps, even slightly they lose the fight. Even with a pre-stack the odds are against you, which ironically is what created the pre-stacking mentality in the first place. Because sword players saw there were no way in hell you can trade with the meta weapons' that all boast and average win-rate of 70% with no advantage. Its possible but still highly unlikely you will make a profit in slayer as a sword player without losing your mind. Even if the individual win rate of the sword player is high, i highly doubt they make any profit. At least no where near the level of a frost.
      You are so skilled at manipulating data and droping tons of BS, ofc if you compare one of the worst weapons atm with a weapon that is actually playable but not op, the result will be the decent weapon will shine like the sun, you have to compare it across the whole board to be accuarate, whats next? comparing it to axes who have just been nerfed to the ground?

      Plus you are trying to compare a mdps weapon which is struggling to find a place in meta, against a utility cc focused rdps weapon who has something to add in every pvp scenario. Yet you claim it's a dps weapon and I'm telling you it's not, it's a cc weapon with utility, if frost had no blink or so much cc, it would be trash, imagine an arcane with not even a silence.

      Frost nova was nerfed heavily, reducing damage and delay of the skill, making it lose it's dps value, E was nerfed because the range is almost the same, but they lost the instant root, now some weapons with mobility can avoid beeing rooted. And melee weapons are in a bad state compared to ranged weapons thats how it has always been, is it good? No, but just because melee weps are underpowered that doesn't mean ranged weapons that can counter them better are extremely OP, specially if this same weapons struggle against every other range dps weapon out there.

      And btw claymore is doing a huge comeback in CD but again, it really seems as you spend more time collecting random data than actually experiencing the game.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Clasics ().

    • jwhite179 wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      bro, wth with this AOE. They spam E and teleport + boots till next combo.
      Nerf this crap.
      Nerf this crap?. Frost dps is shit, you can't fairly stand and trade with nobody
      This is a LAWL. Have you tried fire? Have your tried Arcane? You don't get to stand still as a caster unless you go curse.
      Correction: If you go against someone competent you don't get to stand still and trade. You have to kite. At least frost actually has the ability to kite solo. Too many abilities can go through fire wall. Arcane can purge, and with mimic you can stand to trade against certain classes, but all in all- frost has insane mobility, and CC
      When I say stand and trade, ofc I don't mean standing still and trading, thats stupid, what I mean is every other rdps weapon out there outdamages frosts by a good margin, why? Because frost is a utility dps weapon, not a strictly dps heavy hitter like fire. And i'm ok with it, as long as they don't nerf it further, because it will become unplayable, it is already hard to play, if you try frost you would know, but a lot of people die against frost in the most stupid ways and the come here to cry instead of trying out the weapon themselves.

      I've lost countless fights just because I used blink too early, missed 1 single Q, wasted 1 defensive out of being baited, or just trying to trade when i had 40 or 50% more hp thinking that would be enough, yet i'm sick of watching dumb players using easy builds making tons of mistakes and still winning. It sucks to have to hit and run for half an hour until your opponent has 60% less health than you so you can actually go all in and trade. But well is the weapon I enjoy the most so I try to deal with it and come up with fun interesting builds that help me trade better and not just run away all the time.

      What it's interesting is, if frost had not so much cc and mobility, with it's raw dps it would be close to playing arcane, but with no silence, the cc and mobility is the only thing that kept this weapon usable all this time, if they nerf it as OP asked, then they should buff it's damage to make it comparable to xbows, otherwise the weapon will be completely unplayable.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Clasics ().

    • "I'll close with a short story, a few days ago i was watching humperdinck"

      This explains the retardation.


      Clasics wrote:

      You are so skilled at manipulating data and droping tons of BS
      All the data i presented here can be found on the murder ledger. You can run the numbers yourself this is not hard. murderledger.com/

      you seem to be offended at the fact that your delusion has been broken.

      Clasics wrote:

      ofc if you compare one of the worst weapons atm with a weapon that is actually playable but not op, the result will be the decent weapon will shine like the sun
      My initial analysis had nothing to do with any other weapon, just frost. I only made the comparison to swords as frost players often lie about the match up despite the data suggesting otherwise. and to show you what a real nerfed weapon looks like.I could have not included the tadbit about swords and the fact would still stand.


      Clasics wrote:

      you have to compare it across the whole board to be accuarate
      I already did that pay attention smooth brain.


      Clasics wrote:

      Frost nova was nerfed heavily, reducing damage and delay of the skill, making it lose it's dps value
      Frost Nova has never been a part of a frost DPS rotation, you sound like irelia mains in league of legends complaining about - 5 movement speed.

      'hold on guys i will frost nova the mobs' said no frost player ever. It was nerfed because it was dealing too much damage and provided mobility/cc. The whole point of the spell was mobility.


      Clasics wrote:

      E was nerfed because the range is almost the same, but they lost the instant root, now some weapons with mobility can avoid beeing rooted
      Wasn't nerfed , it was reworked into something more powerful. Before you at least needed to land the spell. Now it blanket's the entire screen. Literally brainless to use. Your individual playstyle may have been nerfed. But the objective fact of the Change is that it is a buff across the board. Your playstyle is irrelevant.


      Clasics wrote:

      specially if this same weapons struggle against every other range dps weapon out there.
      Actually frost only struggles with curse , badon , and bolt casters. And even still the win-rate is 49 -51% for each of them. And calling it a struggle is only relative to the fact that frost usually stomps everything else.

      Clasics wrote:

      And btw claymore is doing a huge comeback in CD but again, it really seems as you spend more time collecting random data than actually experiencing the game.
      No claymore is not making a comeback XD. The data is actually getting worse. And i usually don't play the data game , but ever so often i get delusional players talking to me because they listened to [insert streamer with massive ego] and i have to slap them with objective facts.

      "Again data collected across all game modes, aka not accuarate at all, as I stated earlier if tomorrow hundred players grab frost 1h and go hunt solo farmers, your data will explode" - Clasics

      Actually this data was solely taken from slayer. So your clearly delusional. If i were to pull data from other websites or game modes it will only prove my point even further.

      Also you're statment of "this weapon is used a lot that must means it has good damage" - Clasics

      I never made such a mindless statement, if i did then you would have directly quoted me.So quote me or delete your forum account.

      Its seems like every response you have made is literally parroting humperdink and being upset that frost is not as weak as you think it is. By all means be upset, facts are the facts. Stop drinking streamer cool-aide.I like hump, he is just delusional about the state of this weapon . Literally anyone can go look up frost matchups , literally anyone can, on murder ledger.
    • "Babyguega top infamy player for months, started playing frost and lost his n1 spot, in a week, he is the only frost on top 10 right now and we don't even know if he continues to play frost" -Clasics


      Just to follow up. Why do you think BabyGuega chose frost over any other option? does that not speak volumes to the strength of this weapon.

      Also his position dropped because he went from a weapon with a overall 80 percent performance rate to a weapon that has a 72% performance rate. It is not only a reflection of his skill, good or bad, but also just basic math. But what i can tell you its not , is an indication that frost is harder to play. And even still he sits in the higher percentile of the leaderboard. Despite probably never playing frost before in his life. Speaks volumes doesn't it?

      No one just picks up a claymore willy nilly and maintains their position in the top percentile.
    • hmmm this is good "eats popcorn"
      well it's true if u made a mistake w/ sword it's a insta loss not like frost/spear/warbow, that just run if they misplay but I think it's not that bad it's just take skill & a lot of experience to wield swords but yes I wish they buff a sword a little bit by adding 1-2$ movement speed in heroic spirit, after all chasing guys who just want to kite all day is such a pain in the assssssssss
    • moking wrote:

      "I'll close with a short story, a few days ago i was watching humperdinck"

      This explains the retardation.


      Clasics wrote:

      You are so skilled at manipulating data and droping tons of BS
      All the data i presented here can be found on the murder ledger. You can run the numbers yourself this is not hard. murderledger.com/
      you seem to be offended at the fact that your delusion has been broken.

      Clasics wrote:

      ofc if you compare one of the worst weapons atm with a weapon that is actually playable but not op, the result will be the decent weapon will shine like the sun
      My initial analysis had nothing to do with any other weapon, just frost. I only made the comparison to swords as frost players often lie about the match up despite the data suggesting otherwise. and to show you what a real nerfed weapon looks like.I could have not included the tadbit about swords and the fact would still stand.

      Clasics wrote:

      you have to compare it across the whole board to be accuarate
      I already did that pay attention smooth brain.

      Clasics wrote:

      Frost nova was nerfed heavily, reducing damage and delay of the skill, making it lose it's dps value
      Frost Nova has never been a part of a frost DPS rotation, you sound like irelia mains in league of legends complaining about - 5 movement speed.
      'hold on guys i will frost nova the mobs' said no frost player ever. It was nerfed because it was dealing too much damage and provided mobility/cc. The whole point of the spell was mobility.


      Clasics wrote:

      E was nerfed because the range is almost the same, but they lost the instant root, now some weapons with mobility can avoid beeing rooted
      Wasn't nerfed , it was reworked into something more powerful. Before you at least needed to land the spell. Now it blanket's the entire screen. Literally brainless to use. Your individual playstyle may have been nerfed. But the objective fact of the Change is that it is a buff across the board. Your playstyle is irrelevant.

      Clasics wrote:

      specially if this same weapons struggle against every other range dps weapon out there.
      Actually frost only struggles with curse , badon , and bolt casters. And even still the win-rate is 49 -51% for each of them. And calling it a struggle is only relative to the fact that frost usually stomps everything else.

      Clasics wrote:

      And btw claymore is doing a huge comeback in CD but again, it really seems as you spend more time collecting random data than actually experiencing the game.
      No claymore is not making a comeback XD. The data is actually getting worse. And i usually don't play the data game , but ever so often i get delusional players talking to me because they listened to [insert streamer with massive ego] and i have to slap them with objective facts.
      "Again data collected across all game modes, aka not accuarate at all, as I stated earlier if tomorrow hundred players grab frost 1h and go hunt solo farmers, your data will explode" - Clasics

      Actually this data was solely taken from slayer. So your clearly delusional. If i were to pull data from other websites or game modes it will only prove my point even further.

      Also you're statment of "this weapon is used a lot that must means it has good damage" - Clasics

      I never made such a mindless statement, if i did then you would have directly quoted me.So quote me or delete your forum account.

      Its seems like every response you have made is literally parroting humperdink and being upset that frost is not as weak as you think it is. By all means be upset, facts are the facts. Stop drinking streamer cool-aide.I like hump, he is just delusional about the state of this weapon . Literally anyone can go look up frost matchups , literally anyone can, on murder ledger.
      Dude, your initial analysis was to say frosts have monstruos AOE on Q3, they don't need to kite, and don't get punished by mistakes.

      All I can tell from that is that either you've never used frost staff, you suck at dodging skillshots, you blindly chase your opponent down until either you or him dies, or you don't even play the game anymore. You are the first guy i've ever read complaining about Q3 on frost.

      Then you thrown a huge ton of % from a website without even calculating everything that goes in between (skipped fights, hardcounters, screw ups, etc)

      Maybe frosts have a good success rate because they have more survability, meaning they are skipping fights, and dying less than most other weps, not because they are killing everyone out there braindead data collector, otherwise everyone would be using frost.

      And you end up saying that just because frost has a higher % win rate that means they can beat any cursed skull anytime, yet the top infamy players uses skull and I as a main frost find the skull to be one of the hardest counters right now... Wtf are you even talking about? You know shit about this game.

      Another indicator you know shit about your game.

      And you make biased points, how this guy babyguega went 10 positions down in the table while using "the most broken weapon" in your opinion.

      If it was so good and broken, then why this guy, who is known to abuse the worst meta builds to climb on top, is not leading the board right now? Explain that to me you dumbo. Not only he is not leading, he keeps losing and climbing down. You don't go 16 positions down in the table playing the most overpowered and broken weapon in the game right? Specially a easy to learn wep like frost right? Yet i'm the retarded? What an asshole.

      Then after making this huge mess of biased info, and stupid calls, you try to generalize the problem into the other frosts, OP was speaking about 1h frost not every frost out there, I was discussing how in CD 1h frost has low damage compared to other rdps but the tradeoff is good mobility, and cc making the weapon balanced.

      You on the contrary are just speaking out of your ass, trying to enforce us to belive a weapon is OP based on %, another proof you know shit about this game. As I said before, if you use a mobility weapon, skip most fights you can't win and only kill what you can counter, ofc your % will be high, that doesn't translate to people blasting everyone out there with frost, it means people are dying less with it. And before you start with your BS arguments about how that means they are op because they can pick fights, every weapon with 1 mobility skill can do that, and most times this top infamy players won't even try to trade, as soon as they see a difficult matchup they vanish. It works that way with bows, swords, daggers, and every other wep with decent mobility. But that data doesn't show on your lovely website, doesn't help you so you completely ignore it... YOU KNOW SHIT ABOUT THIS GAME.

      Remember I never said 1h frost is a bad weapon, I just said it's dps is low, compared to other rdps weapons, but thank god we have mobility and cc to trade for it's lack of dps, so lets leave frost as it is. Thats it, you turned everything into a min max retard discussion about how frost is completely op.

      And to continue bashing your biased opinion you go out and compare frost to one of the weapons that's struggling, a melee dps weapon of all choices, you are completely stupid sir, go check yourself because the only delusional guy here seems to be you.

      Also you keep contradicting yourself, on one hand "frost has seen very small adjustments that are not nerfs" but then you deny frost nova nerf because "it's not a dps skill" wtf are you even talking about then moron, I never said it was a dps skill or part of the rotation, a nerf it's a nerf, doesn't matter which skill or how they nerf it, it still counts as a nerf braindead data entry. And you end that point by stating Q3 was actually nerfed because it had too much damage, how stupid can you really be? Calling other people retard while making absolutely no sense.

      Another contradiction smooth brain, "My initial analysis had nothing to do with any other weapon, just frost. I only made the comparison to swords as frost players often lie about the match up" --> "you have to compare it across the whole weapon board" --> "I already did that pay attention smooth brain."


      Nice one smooth brain, so did you or did you not? If you had done that, you would know every rdps out there outdamages frost, thats why frost has cc and mobility. But again you know shit about the game.



      "Wasn't nerfed just reworked into something stronger" First of all, the aoe size is barely the same, the only difference is now you can clearly see when you are inside or outside, so don't come to me with that "at least they had to land the skill".
      Second, back before patch it used to insta root, now it doesn't meaning ppl have a chance to get away, also now it's affected by anti cc stats, meaning it's a nerf, a big one, ask any frost out there, they would take back insta root even if they narrow the aoe even further.



      "Now it blanket's the entire screen. Literally brainless to use" It's barely the same size idiot, you just don't know your game, collect all the data you want you will still come up as an idiot, you must be one of those braindead players who see a frost, chase blindly, fall into every skill shot, doesn't dodge properly the Q and after dying comes here to cry endlessly, you clearly spend more time watching that data website than actually playing, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about freaking Q3 you are litterally the only idiot i've ever seen complaining that aoe in Q3 is too big, wtf. Is one of the easiest skills to dodge.

      "frost usually stomps everything else." Again another proof you know shit about this game, dude seriously quit that data website, it's hurting you, go play the actual game, and stop being so full of shit, who gets stomped by frosts? Stomp usually means they aproach you, and run you over, which frost can actually do that? If a single Q of xbow can make us back down immediately. A regular bow uses E and we must retreat, a fire staff we shouldn't even let them hit us once, a cursed staff or skull too, as a matter of fact, cursed is the only weapon we can hold on to the trade before starting to kite, every other weapon you should avoid every single hit, even warbows or badons with the posion Q and auto can force you to flee.


      As I said to the guy before you, it might be hard to catch a frost, but if you stop chasing like an idiot, eat a regen food and wait, he won't be able to do shit to you, frost only has the advantage when people chase them endlessly like braindeads, and you call that a stomping weapon? pls stfu.


      "And i usually don't play the data game" Dude your whole post was based on data you collected from this website, every thing you said, actually made me belive you spend more time playing with the data, than playing the actuall game, if you do you might cross some claymores on lvl 3 CD that are doing decent against skulls, maces and some other builds. But ofc if it doesn't show on your data it doens't exist right? What a tool.


      Oh another contradiction, how lovely, "I never made such a mindless statement, if i did then you would have directly quoted me.So quote me or delete your forum account." hey, meet yourself a few posts ago "This is actually a lie , it is very strong , and no most frost builds do not need to kite, this is only true versus lock on builds that do equal damage to frost." Idiot...


      And about the humperdinck shit you've said, it would have been great if you analized the story, as facts, not the protagonist, I've only seen humpers stream 3 times in my life, one he was playing gw2, the other he was playing albion, I'm not even a fan of they guy, but I aknowledge he is a good cloth frost player, he didn't say shit about frost's state after losing that fight, as a matter of fact, i've never listened the guy's opinion on the game because i don't care, I told that story because it reflects how spears outdps frosts, even without being considered a proper rdps weapon, but instead of looking at the story objectively, you just trashed on humperdinck because you have some sort of dispute with him or you don't like it, well thats something you should talk with him, not with me, i'm giving my own opinion as a guy who played frost every day for the past year. And I'll clarify again just because you seem really dumb, I never implied frost is underpowered or in a bad state, I just said that among all rdps weapons frost has the lowest dps, and compensates it with good cc and mobility so it should be left untouched, because otherwise it would be unplayable. You were the one who implied I meant frost is underpowered or a bad weapon.



      moking wrote:

      "Babyguega top infamy player for months, started playing frost and lost his n1 spot, in a week, he is the only frost on top 10 right now and we don't even know if he continues to play frost" -Clasics


      Just to follow up. Why do you think BabyGuega chose frost over any other option? does that not speak volumes to the strength of this weapon.

      Also his position dropped because he went from a weapon with a overall 80 percent performance rate to a weapon that has a 72% performance rate. It is not only a reflection of his skill, good or bad, but also just basic math. But what i can tell you its not , is an indication that frost is harder to play. And even still he sits in the higher percentile of the leaderboard. Despite probably never playing frost before in his life. Speaks volumes doesn't it?

      No one just picks up a claymore willy nilly and maintains their position in the top percentile.

      And I repeat, I've never said frost was underpowered, needed a buff, or it's in a bad state, just that it's dps compared to every other rdps weapon is lower, that doesn't mean frost is in bad state, and I'd never be so stupid to deny frost is a good weapon, I main it after all dumbo. But that also doesn't mean frost is completely overpowered and is stoming everyone out there for the love of god.

      I also said frost has a higher skill cieling than most rdps weapons, because they have to aim every Q, it has an annoying cast time, W is mainly defensive, E doesn't hit that hard, we can't use merc jacket like cursed skulls, we are mostly forced to run cloth because even assassin jacket cuts our already low dps in half, we are the most cape dependant weapon out there, and if we miss 1 or 2 Q in a trade we lose the fight, if we make one mistake we die, but hey, thats my main weapon and all of that makes it fun to me, otherwise it would be completely op if it could hit as hard as fire staff while keeping CC and mobility. So all i'm asking is to leave it as it is and stop calling it insanely overpowered when the only power it has is tu survive a bit longer than most.

      Now thats clarified, let me ask this to you, if frost was so insanely overpowered as you claim, if it really is stomping everyone out there, and it's easy to use, and etc. etc. Then why did babyguega fall from the top? Do you really belive he never used frost before or has any experience with it? Because I know for a fact he used to play frost a lot. So he is skilled, he knows what he is doing, he is running "the most unfair and op weapon" on your eyes, then why is he losing? Why cursed and ava staves are dominating? You see how biased you are by all that data you collected, just because you show little to none experience in game, if all of what you claim is true then he should be first on the board, followed by 7 other frosts, and 3 or 4 cursed skulls... Yet he is not, most don't reach n1 spot, he lost it while on frost, and this is not the first time he played frost, he knows the weapon so the argument of "he is learning how to play it" is invalid.

      Tl;TR: IMO frost is balanced, and it's hard to play, it has some clear disadvantages, some weapons outshine frosts specially on the raw dps aspect, and have way less complicated skills and combos, frost 1h with no mobility or cc would be unplayable, all I ask is to leave it untouched, you on the other hand belive just because of % of win rates frost is one of the most overpowered unfair thing there is, and your personal arguments showed you actually know close to nothing about it's mechanics, and how easily you can counter them, also it shows you talk a lot of a weapon you haven't tried at all, and haven't even encountered, because as i stated before, no one, absolutely no one complains about Q3 and most players know for a fact is easy AF to dodge just by moving around, so my suggestion for you is to go grab a frost 1h, cleric cowl/guardian helmet, mage robe, cleric/scholar sandals, morgana cape, and run some corrupted dungeons, to find out for yourself how good or bad the weapon is.
    • Clasics wrote:

      moking wrote:

      "I'll close with a short story, a few days ago i was watching humperdinck"

      This explains the retardation.


      Clasics wrote:

      You are so skilled at manipulating data and droping tons of BS
      All the data i presented here can be found on the murder ledger. You can run the numbers yourself this is not hard. murderledger.com/you seem to be offended at the fact that your delusion has been broken.

      Clasics wrote:

      ofc if you compare one of the worst weapons atm with a weapon that is actually playable but not op, the result will be the decent weapon will shine like the sun
      My initial analysis had nothing to do with any other weapon, just frost. I only made the comparison to swords as frost players often lie about the match up despite the data suggesting otherwise. and to show you what a real nerfed weapon looks like.I could have not included the tadbit about swords and the fact would still stand.

      Clasics wrote:

      you have to compare it across the whole board to be accuarate
      I already did that pay attention smooth brain.

      Clasics wrote:

      Frost nova was nerfed heavily, reducing damage and delay of the skill, making it lose it's dps value
      Frost Nova has never been a part of a frost DPS rotation, you sound like irelia mains in league of legends complaining about - 5 movement speed.'hold on guys i will frost nova the mobs' said no frost player ever. It was nerfed because it was dealing too much damage and provided mobility/cc. The whole point of the spell was mobility.


      Clasics wrote:

      E was nerfed because the range is almost the same, but they lost the instant root, now some weapons with mobility can avoid beeing rooted
      Wasn't nerfed , it was reworked into something more powerful. Before you at least needed to land the spell. Now it blanket's the entire screen. Literally brainless to use. Your individual playstyle may have been nerfed. But the objective fact of the Change is that it is a buff across the board. Your playstyle is irrelevant.

      Clasics wrote:

      specially if this same weapons struggle against every other range dps weapon out there.
      Actually frost only struggles with curse , badon , and bolt casters. And even still the win-rate is 49 -51% for each of them. And calling it a struggle is only relative to the fact that frost usually stomps everything else.

      Clasics wrote:

      And btw claymore is doing a huge comeback in CD but again, it really seems as you spend more time collecting random data than actually experiencing the game.
      No claymore is not making a comeback XD. The data is actually getting worse. And i usually don't play the data game , but ever so often i get delusional players talking to me because they listened to [insert streamer with massive ego] and i have to slap them with objective facts."Again data collected across all game modes, aka not accuarate at all, as I stated earlier if tomorrow hundred players grab frost 1h and go hunt solo farmers, your data will explode" - Clasics

      Actually this data was solely taken from slayer. So your clearly delusional. If i were to pull data from other websites or game modes it will only prove my point even further.

      Also you're statment of "this weapon is used a lot that must means it has good damage" - Clasics

      I never made such a mindless statement, if i did then you would have directly quoted me.So quote me or delete your forum account.

      Its seems like every response you have made is literally parroting humperdink and being upset that frost is not as weak as you think it is. By all means be upset, facts are the facts. Stop drinking streamer cool-aide.I like hump, he is just delusional about the state of this weapon . Literally anyone can go look up frost matchups , literally anyone can, on murder ledger.
      Dude, your initial analysis was to say frosts have monstruos AOE on Q3, they don't need to kite, and don't get punished by mistakes.
      All I can tell from that is that either you've never used frost staff, you suck at dodging skillshots, you blindly chase your opponent down until either you or him dies, or you don't even play the game anymore. You are the first guy i've ever read complaining about Q3 on frost.

      Then you thrown a huge ton of % from a website without even calculating everything that goes in between (skipped fights, hardcounters, screw ups, etc)

      Maybe frosts have a good success rate because they have more survability, meaning they are skipping fights, and dying less than most other weps, not because they are killing everyone out there braindead data collector, otherwise everyone would be using frost.

      And you end up saying that just because frost has a higher % win rate that means they can beat any cursed skull anytime, yet the top infamy players uses skull and I as a main frost find the skull to be one of the hardest counters right now... Wtf are you even talking about? You know shit about this game.

      Another indicator you know shit about your game.

      And you make biased points, how this guy babyguega went 10 positions down in the table while using "the most broken weapon" in your opinion.

      If it was so good and broken, then why this guy, who is known to abuse the worst meta builds to climb on top, is not leading the board right now? Explain that to me you dumbo. Not only he is not leading, he keeps losing and climbing down. You don't go 16 positions down in the table playing the most overpowered and broken weapon in the game right? Specially a easy to learn wep like frost right? Yet i'm the retarded? What an asshole.

      Then after making this huge mess of biased info, and stupid calls, you try to generalize the problem into the other frosts, OP was speaking about 1h frost not every frost out there, I was discussing how in CD 1h frost has low damage compared to other rdps but the tradeoff is good mobility, and cc making the weapon balanced.

      You on the contrary are just speaking out of your ass, trying to enforce us to belive a weapon is OP based on %, another proof you know shit about this game. As I said before, if you use a mobility weapon, skip most fights you can't win and only kill what you can counter, ofc your % will be high, that doesn't translate to people blasting everyone out there with frost, it means people are dying less with it. And before you start with your BS arguments about how that means they are op because they can pick fights, every weapon with 1 mobility skill can do that, and most times this top infamy players won't even try to trade, as soon as they see a difficult matchup they vanish. It works that way with bows, swords, daggers, and every other wep with decent mobility. But that data doesn't show on your lovely website, doesn't help you so you completely ignore it... YOU KNOW SHIT ABOUT THIS GAME.

      Remember I never said 1h frost is a bad weapon, I just said it's dps is low, compared to other rdps weapons, but thank god we have mobility and cc to trade for it's lack of dps, so lets leave frost as it is. Thats it, you turned everything into a min max retard discussion about how frost is completely op.

      And to continue bashing your biased opinion you go out and compare frost to one of the weapons that's struggling, a melee dps weapon of all choices, you are completely stupid sir, go check yourself because the only delusional guy here seems to be you.

      Also you keep contradicting yourself, on one hand "frost has seen very small adjustments that are not nerfs" but then you deny frost nova nerf because "it's not a dps skill" wtf are you even talking about then moron, I never said it was a dps skill or part of the rotation, a nerf it's a nerf, doesn't matter which skill or how they nerf it, it still counts as a nerf braindead data entry. And you end that point by stating Q3 was actually nerfed because it had too much damage, how stupid can you really be? Calling other people retard while making absolutely no sense.

      Another contradiction smooth brain, "My initial analysis had nothing to do with any other weapon, just frost. I only made the comparison to swords as frost players often lie about the match up" --> "you have to compare it across the whole weapon board" --> "I already did that pay attention smooth brain."


      Nice one smooth brain, so did you or did you not? If you had done that, you would know every rdps out there outdamages frost, thats why frost has cc and mobility. But again you know shit about the game.



      "Wasn't nerfed just reworked into something stronger" First of all, the aoe size is barely the same, the only difference is now you can clearly see when you are inside or outside, so don't come to me with that "at least they had to land the skill".
      Second, back before patch it used to insta root, now it doesn't meaning ppl have a chance to get away, also now it's affected by anti cc stats, meaning it's a nerf, a big one, ask any frost out there, they would take back insta root even if they narrow the aoe even further.



      "Now it blanket's the entire screen. Literally brainless to use" It's barely the same size idiot, you just don't know your game, collect all the data you want you will still come up as an idiot, you must be one of those braindead players who see a frost, chase blindly, fall into every skill shot, doesn't dodge properly the Q and after dying comes here to cry endlessly, you clearly spend more time watching that data website than actually playing, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about freaking Q3 you are litterally the only idiot i've ever seen complaining that aoe in Q3 is too big, wtf. Is one of the easiest skills to dodge.

      "frost usually stomps everything else." Again another proof you know shit about this game, dude seriously quit that data website, it's hurting you, go play the actual game, and stop being so full of shit, who gets stomped by frosts? Stomp usually means they aproach you, and run you over, which frost can actually do that? If a single Q of xbow can make us back down immediately. A regular bow uses E and we must retreat, a fire staff we shouldn't even let them hit us once, a cursed staff or skull too, as a matter of fact, cursed is the only weapon we can hold on to the trade before starting to kite, every other weapon you should avoid every single hit, even warbows or badons with the posion Q and auto can force you to flee.


      As I said to the guy before you, it might be hard to catch a frost, but if you stop chasing like an idiot, eat a regen food and wait, he won't be able to do shit to you, frost only has the advantage when people chase them endlessly like braindeads, and you call that a stomping weapon? pls stfu.


      "And i usually don't play the data game" Dude your whole post was based on data you collected from this website, every thing you said, actually made me belive you spend more time playing with the data, than playing the actuall game, if you do you might cross some claymores on lvl 3 CD that are doing decent against skulls, maces and some other builds. But ofc if it doesn't show on your data it doens't exist right? What a tool.


      Oh another contradiction, how lovely, "I never made such a mindless statement, if i did then you would have directly quoted me.So quote me or delete your forum account." hey, meet yourself a few posts ago "This is actually a lie , it is very strong , and no most frost builds do not need to kite, this is only true versus lock on builds that do equal damage to frost." Idiot...


      And about the humperdinck shit you've said, it would have been great if you analized the story, as facts, not the protagonist, I've only seen humpers stream 3 times in my life, one he was playing gw2, the other he was playing albion, I'm not even a fan of they guy, but I aknowledge he is a good cloth frost player, he didn't say shit about frost's state after losing that fight, as a matter of fact, i've never listened the guy's opinion on the game because i don't care, I told that story because it reflects how spears outdps frosts, even without being considered a proper rdps weapon, but instead of looking at the story objectively, you just trashed on humperdinck because you have some sort of dispute with him or you don't like it, well thats something you should talk with him, not with me, i'm giving my own opinion as a guy who played frost every day for the past year. And I'll clarify again just because you seem really dumb, I never implied frost is underpowered or in a bad state, I just said that among all rdps weapons frost has the lowest dps, and compensates it with good cc and mobility so it should be left untouched, because otherwise it would be unplayable. You were the one who implied I meant frost is underpowered or a bad weapon.



      moking wrote:

      "Babyguega top infamy player for months, started playing frost and lost his n1 spot, in a week, he is the only frost on top 10 right now and we don't even know if he continues to play frost" -Clasics


      Just to follow up. Why do you think BabyGuega chose frost over any other option? does that not speak volumes to the strength of this weapon.

      Also his position dropped because he went from a weapon with a overall 80 percent performance rate to a weapon that has a 72% performance rate. It is not only a reflection of his skill, good or bad, but also just basic math. But what i can tell you its not , is an indication that frost is harder to play. And even still he sits in the higher percentile of the leaderboard. Despite probably never playing frost before in his life. Speaks volumes doesn't it?

      No one just picks up a claymore willy nilly and maintains their position in the top percentile.
      And I repeat, I've never said frost was underpowered, needed a buff, or it's in a bad state, just that it's dps compared to every other rdps weapon is lower, that doesn't mean frost is in bad state, and I'd never be so stupid to deny frost is a good weapon, I main it after all dumbo. But that also doesn't mean frost is completely overpowered and is stoming everyone out there for the love of god.

      I also said frost has a higher skill cieling than most rdps weapons, because they have to aim every Q, it has an annoying cast time, W is mainly defensive, E doesn't hit that hard, we can't use merc jacket like cursed skulls, we are mostly forced to run cloth because even assassin jacket cuts our already low dps in half, we are the most cape dependant weapon out there, and if we miss 1 or 2 Q in a trade we lose the fight, if we make one mistake we die, but hey, thats my main weapon and all of that makes it fun to me, otherwise it would be completely op if it could hit as hard as fire staff while keeping CC and mobility. So all i'm asking is to leave it as it is and stop calling it insanely overpowered when the only power it has is tu survive a bit longer than most.

      Now thats clarified, let me ask this to you, if frost was so insanely overpowered as you claim, if it really is stomping everyone out there, and it's easy to use, and etc. etc. Then why did babyguega fall from the top? Do you really belive he never used frost before or has any experience with it? Because I know for a fact he used to play frost a lot. So he is skilled, he knows what he is doing, he is running "the most unfair and op weapon" on your eyes, then why is he losing? Why cursed and ava staves are dominating? You see how biased you are by all that data you collected, just because you show little to none experience in game, if all of what you claim is true then he should be first on the board, followed by 7 other frosts, and 3 or 4 cursed skulls... Yet he is not, most don't reach n1 spot, he lost it while on frost, and this is not the first time he played frost, he knows the weapon so the argument of "he is learning how to play it" is invalid.

      Tl;TR: IMO frost is balanced, and it's hard to play, it has some clear disadvantages, some weapons outshine frosts specially on the raw dps aspect, and have way less complicated skills and combos, frost 1h with no mobility or cc would be unplayable, all I ask is to leave it untouched, you on the other hand belive just because of % of win rates frost is one of the most overpowered unfair thing there is, and your personal arguments showed you actually know close to nothing about it's mechanics, and how easily you can counter them, also it shows you talk a lot of a weapon you haven't tried at all, and haven't even encountered, because as i stated before, no one, absolutely no one complains about Q3 and most players know for a fact is easy AF to dodge just by moving around, so my suggestion for you is to go grab a frost 1h, cleric cowl/guardian helmet, mage robe, cleric/scholar sandals, morgana cape, and run some corrupted dungeons, to find out for yourself how good or bad the weapon is.
      Facts do not care about your feelings. XD

      Also I'm still waiting for you to quote me , or just delete your forum account for trying to attribute words and points i did not make nor say.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by moking ().

    • Clasics wrote:

      And you make biased points, how this guy babyguega went 10 positions down in the table while using "the most broken weapon" in your opinion.
      guega actually lost most of his infamy fighting against other frost players lmao
      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/237023012
      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/237922044

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/239435787

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/239498677
    • pinto wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      And you make biased points, how this guy babyguega went 10 positions down in the table while using "the most broken weapon" in your opinion.
      guega actually lost most of his infamy fighting against other frost players lmaoalbiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/237023012
      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/237922044

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/239435787

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/239498677
      Lol i love when data shows its accuracy like this. Just imagine the timing thank you pinto. Of his 8 deaths since switching to frost. Half of those deaths have been to other frost staffs. You love to see it XD.
    • pinto wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      And you make biased points, how this guy babyguega went 10 positions down in the table while using "the most broken weapon" in your opinion.
      guega actually lost most of his infamy fighting against other frost players lmaoalbiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/237023012
      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/237922044

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/239435787

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/239498677
      Lol this actually helped me prove my point, actually.
      You have the top 1 infamy player using the most broken, op, easy to use weapon in game, killed by a guy using chillhowl, a staff most players stopped using after the range nerf it got a few months ago. After all we are discussing 1h frost here, not frosts in general...

      And you know what's even funnier, since I just discovered frosts are the most broken weapon tree in game, i'm surprised to actually see this.

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/183827390

      I guess you should start with the "tombhammer is the most broken wep in game" posts right about now... Btw tombhammer was also heavily nerfed a few months ago, yet it still can kill the most op wep out there... LMAO
    • this is getting interesting well I'm just an average sword user so I don't really mind losing to metas except hallowfall, qs, & grailseeker their such unfair weapon last patch but it feel so good if u defeat them w/ claymore or broadsword it's part of the game some things r unbalance I think u can counter it by using mind games or just breaking the crystal if u know you will lose :D

      so just chill & play cuz it's normal something is op & it will get nerf once all the data the devs got saw the weapon that's too powerful.

      after all devs r just people they're not perfect hahahahha
    • Clasics wrote:


      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/239990678

      Frost is actually a hard counter for maces, yet this guy managed to kill the top 1 with the most broken weapon, while beeing "hard countered"
      Hard countered my ass, mace is hard counter for cloth and leather frost. Mace can't kill plate frost but can't be killed by plate frost either. Mace can win brawl against frost even with snare charge on W, and with snare charge you can catch frost easily (unless it's plate frost)

      If you want to win mace with a frost (cloth or leather), frost need to be at least 1 tier higher or the frost player has to be substantially more skilled. You post a 8.3 mace killing a 8.1 frost LoL. It's the other way around.

      Like I've said in the second post: after the change frost getting stronger against some weapon while weaker against others (mace is one of the later). It's neither a buff or a nerf.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • SpicyPepper wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/239990678

      Frost is actually a hard counter for maces, yet this guy managed to kill the top 1 with the most broken weapon, while beeing "hard countered"
      Hard countered my ass, mace is hard counter for cloth and leather frost. Mace can't kill plate frost but can't be killed by plate frost either. Mace can win brawl against frost even with snare charge on W, and with snare charge you can catch frost easily (unless it's plate frost)
      If you want to win mace with a frost (cloth or leather), frost need to be at least 1 tier higher or the frost player has to be substantially more skilled. You post a 8.3 mace killing a 8.1 frost LoL. It's the other way around.

      Like I've said in the second post: after the change frost getting stronger against some weapon while weaker against others (mace is one of the later). It's neither a buff or a nerf.
      M8 it's simple logic, mace's most important skill, the E, shares the same cd as frost's W frost nova.
      One has a predictable long animation, the other one has an instant blink which also roots in place.

      All you have to do as frost, is to wait until mace guy jumps, not even predict, you have more than enough time to react, and this is coming from a high ping player. To then cast your W get away from the aoe, turn back hit an E, spam a few Q and go away until frost nova is up again, then repeat.

      If they manage to hit you anyway, you just run away reset fight, pop a regen food, and go back full health, they can't chase you, unless they run soldier boots, luckily almost every frost runs assassin jacket or mage robe to counter those.

      All you need is a bit of reflexes, and you can completely deny them from playing every single time they try to combo you. Now tell me that doesn't sound like a counter to you?

      You are right tho, back before patch you could cancel mace's E with your own E, so maybe now it's no longer a HARD counter, but it's still a counter anyway just because of the interaction between nova and mace E.

      On regards of tier, if you play your cards properly you can still kill a mace even if he has 100 more ip than you, you just have to play super clean, don't miss a single nova, and avoid standing to trade at all costs, just limit to blink away hit a E and running away quickly before he can catch up.

      As I told the other guy a while ago, that matchup is a perfect example of how frosts are easily punished just because of one simple mistake, even against advantageous matchups, against a good mace player you miss 1 or 2 consequtive novas, and get hit, and thats it you are dead. Yet he claims frost is OP af. And even if you play it super clean and don't make any mistake, mace guy can just turn around and leave, forcing you to chase him and leaving you completely exposed, specially if you don't want him to reset fight so you waste W or boots on chasing him.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Clasics ().