Axes. Just why?

    • Axes. Just why?

      I'm aware that the Axe changes were shipped just to not to delay the patch further and there will be potential follow up changes/reverts. That's also the reason why i'm writing this, i'm a bit fed up with how Axes have been treated all this time, they're my favourite to play because Axes just look so damn cool, especially that Greataxe (thanks for the uninterruptible change that i years ago advocated for).

      However i have to address the issues Axes face and have ever since i've started playing this game:

      The relative ease at how you can keep up your Bleeds on your Targets and in return have a constant Healing reduction debuff.

      That healing reduction debuff is such a huge power budget and has absolutely NO RIGHT to be on a spamable ability, especially how mind numbingly easy it is to apply. However, the fact that it hasn't been removed from the Bleed yet has led to this one problem, Axes being either buffed to the point of being oppressive or nerfed to the gutter - we currently find ourselves in the gutter again. The healing reduction has been an issue for such a long time and it should be removed from the Q forever in my opinion.

      The reason why is, Axes by themselves are meant to do damage and that's what they were supposed to be "good" at. But the problem is, they aren't actually doing much damage compared to the vast majority of other Weapons, especially ranged ones. There's no way in hell i can compete with the likes of Bow or XBow as an Axe player in terms of damage a weapon Tree that is supposed to be "good at it" without any of the Utility, Mobility (especially after gutting Adrenaline Rush???) and Offensive prowess as the forementioned weapons.So it always just felt like: "put bleeds up, the healing reduction is all you're here for anyway". Nor can a Greataxe compete with a Lifecurse Staff, 1h XBow or most other specter jacket builds in terms of clear speed in Dungeons. Because while Whirlwind might have done nice damage, the remaining kit of the Greataxe did piss poor damage. While the other mentioned weapons could literally burst down Bosses with in seconds, a Greataxe would need minutes and run out of mana 15 seconds into the fight.

      So i do not understand the nerf to the PvE damage either. But alas, it is how it is, even tho i would love to have a change in that regard.

      As i've mentioned before, the Healing reduction is a big problem and a huge power budget that keeps Axes from balanced and keeps it away from feeling good to play and play against. So i would propose that Carrion Caller and potentially Scythe be anti healing Axes and all the other Axes focus solely on Damage only. So in that way you can actually balance the Healing reduction without killing the whole Tree.

      Nothing stops you from putting Healing reduction on an active Ability. Actually it already exists on an Ability called, called "Battle Rush" yeah i know, we all forgot it exists. No one uses it, why should they? Your q already does that and you don't lose damage taking it compared to the other Options. If our Q abilities actually did good Bleed damage or overall damage, there would be incentives to swap to Battle Rush for the utility, but alas there is none. Cause right now the new Rending Spin absolutely makes no sense we RELY on Bleeds to do damage, we don't hit the outer Edge we're effectively useless. Not to mention it has super low Range, we poor Mobility and can't even reliably hit this thing against Mobs when you're playing with somewhat of a ping. All of that just because we have easy access to a Healing reduction debuff. It makes no sense, get rid of it.

      Even compared to other Melee weapons Axes have the lowest DPS, they have insanely low Attack speed except for Battle Axe now with Adrenaline Rush, don't have armor shred on their Q or overall damage. They're pretty much ABILITY FOCUSED Weapons - but are heavily gated by the Healing reduction debuff, Mana issues and low Bleed dps their main damage source.

      Also there's barely any options when talking about W Abilities, Adrenaline Rush is a must have or was before it got gutted in 1v1 because Axes outside of Bearpaws have 0 mobility. And then it's either Raging Blades (wish this Ability never got introduced it added NOTHING to the Axe playstyle just another "press button and do dps mindlessly Ability" and in some very rare cases Internal Bleeding but not really.

      Deadly Chop is actually a broken Ability, but the problem with it is how long it locks you into place because of it's cast and stand time, it has absolutely no reason to be so clunky to use unless it was an Aoe shaped Cone then yeah sure i would understand.
      Battle Rush is overshadowed by the passive Healing reduction and there's no reason to take it even without a Healing reduction Bleed debuff, as it's just so out of place. It would make more sense to give Battle Rush to Daggers and have Forbidden Stab on Axes.

      But alas, i've ranted too much the main reason i wrote this is to propose to get rid of the Bleed healing debuff and in return give Axes a different approach on their Identity, because right now they have none. They're not good in 1v1's because their Mobility is absolutely terrible, they're not doing Damage as a Weapon that's supposed to be doing "big damage", and are always volatile in patch cycles. Something has to be done. It feels awful having your favourite Weapon Tree bet gutted and implode every other Patch.

      TL;DR: Delete Healing reduction on Bleed Q, buff every other aspect of Axes and give them actual "Damage dealing identity or an actual Identity". Make specific Axe weapons in the Tree fill the niche of "Healing reduction bot" such as Scythe Halberd and obviously Carrion Caller exists but could change it to be more of a concious decision when to time it without drawbacks and setup required.(Healing reduction scales per Bleed stack and once hit, consumes all Bleed Stacks to do X damage and Y% healing reduction depending on stacks, as to not make it a problem Weapon).
      As to not destroy the whole Axe Tree anytime a nerf hits Axes again because of that stupid Healing reduction debuff taking away all the power Budget from the whole Tree.
      Make Bleeds great again and actually hurt (On 3rd Q stack, apply a massive Bleed, every other stack doesn't apply Bleeding), revert Adrenaline Rush nerf or rework Battle Rush into a proper Mobility Option for Axes - because right now, Axes have 0 mobility and have thus no places in 1v1's, Energy issues should also be looked at i don't mind running Royal Armor or Scholar Cowl, but yeah there needs to be a reason why we run out of Mana so fast and Damage is not the reason why, as we do barely any.
      Bearpaws should be looked at instead stripping the whole Tree of it's Mobility.

      Get rid of all this Attackspeed shit from Axes and keep them an Ability focused Playstyle and thus give them an actual identity and work towards it, but at the same time there should be sacrifices/drawbacks as there should with every other Weapon.

      If i can help make Axes feel worth maining without fearing a patch every time and give them an Identity without being a balancing Nightmare, then i'll gladly help where i can.

      Let me know what you think.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Ravname ().

    • Heya,
      I do agree with most of the things above as stated on my own post that is pretty similar.
      The only thing that I dont quite agree is the healing reduction removal, since is the core of the axe tree.
      Could 100% change the passive to bleed only but doing tons of dmg, but as you said, thr way it is now just removed the core of the tree without giving anything in return
    • Catqe wrote:

      Overnerfed. At least they need to bring back q bleeds. Now it's just too clunky and not fun to try to line up that outer circle (very hard with ping over 150).
      Agree that they were overnerfed, i personally do like the circle, adds a layer of skill and goes away from the mindless Q spaming.
      However, it's not very forgiving enough for how little benefit you get from actually landing it.

      Bleeds don't do damage, healing reduction got nerfed, even if you're skilfully able to hit your outer edge Q's. It doesnt feel rewarding at all.

      So if the Circle Q is to stay, there needs to be a benefit to actually hitting it. Like how in League Darius gets a big chunky heal out of it.

      But as i mentioned it's all due to the Healing debuff taking away all the power Budget of Axes Kit and needs to be removed from the Q's or at least the core Identity of Axes damage or utility profile needs to be retought of.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Ravname ().