Axe's Nerf (Patch 4)

    • Combat Balance
    • Axe's Nerf (Patch 4)

      Hello SBI, how are you guys doing?

      I think the nerf on the axes was a little too big in this patch.
      I do agree that axes needed a little nerf, but nerfing everything but Battleaxes isn't the way to go IMO. I believe you guys are already pretty aware that if we change 1 thing from a weapon you can risk killing the entire tree, specially things related to the core of the weapon, that is why I didn't get why the heavy nerf.

      Let's start, i'll just list things that I don't agree, things like Raging Blade I agree fully with the change.

      1st - Rending Spin (second Q)
      - Reduced AOE;
      - Reduced drastically the passive AOE.

      This one I could see it comming, it is indeed the core of the annoyance of Halberds and BP on Zvzs, the rings for Rending Spin helps a lot to know whats going on, BUT its REALLY hard to maintain hitting on the sweet spot because its too small, specially to non-USA countries that play with 150-250 ping. (tested against mobs and ZvZ). That being said, if you miss 1 Q the stacks reset and you can't apply constantly the anti-regen debuff. If you miss 1 Q you can't really make Axes works in a ZvZ, and is really easy to miss.

      2nd- Rending Bleed (Q Passive)
      - Damage;
      - Healing reduction;

      Although I agree that is really annoying to have an Axe in your backline causing pain, this was a little too much. Not only there was a huge nerf on the way the stacks are applied, to have the stacks lose meaning I just can't understand what SBI is thinking. We alraedy had nerfs on Carrion to the regen reduction %, Axes are supposed to be a DOT anti-regen weapon tree, to take a hit that hard on them I don't quite understand.

      _________________________________

      Well, thats kinda it that I don't agree. While I do agree that they needed a little nerf, to nerf it to the ground I don't understand the point, Axes on PVP/ZvZ are supposed to play on the backline and die while taking 3-4ppl with then anyway, and its not like we don't have a counterplay for that, defensive Locus, Guardian helmets and Judi armors are the most common choices. Swords were nerfed last time and the Damage AOE scale was aswell, that took glass cannon melee classes a big hit (looking at you Gallows).
      Nerf a little bit but not that much. But well, the patch is already off, so let's think about how to fix this.

      Option number 1- (the best one)
      - Rending Spin: Keep the reduced AoE damage (it was too big) but Increase the AoE passive so that we can hit Bleeds more often but not always.
      - Rework the passive to a mix of the old one + more bleed charges limit, giving Healing red% per charges other than when 3 stacks (4% Healing reduction per charges with a max of 5 stacks I think its ideal)

      Option number 2-
      - Rending Spin: Keep the reduced AoE damage (it was too big) but Increase the AoE passive so that we can hit Bleeds more often but not always.
      - Keep the passive as it was before (Damage and Healing Red)

      Option number 3-
      - Keep all the changes BUT hitting the sweet spot applies 3 stacks of Bleed.

      Option number 4-
      - Keep all the changes BUT hitting the sweet spot applies 2 stacks of Bleed and not hitting the sweet spot applies 1 stack.

      Option number 5- (the worst one)
      - Tune up the Bleed passive, getting more damage and healing reduction than before.
      (this one is pretty bad because the first and third Q would be too strong, specially on small scale pvp)


      Well, that's my feedback, thanks for all the hardwork and for trying to make the game better.
      Peace :thumbsup:

      The post was edited 2 times, last by hFly ().

    • TheCEOOfRacisn wrote:

      Are you really gonna skip over Raging blades like that, this new nerf means that i have to either calculate how far i am from an enemy or i lose 12 seconds of cd time.
      Yes!
      I'm being reasonable here. I am an Axe player so i know things that are too good or too bad.
      I just feel that nerfing too many things at once that are the core of the tree will make them too bad.
      As I said, a few things I see them comming, BP E is too strong so the stand time is readonable, the AoE of Raging Spin is too big so I can see it being nerfed, Raging blades do loads of dmg and also increase ur damage by a lot so I can see it being nerfed.
      But nerfing to the ground the possibility of the bleeding and the bleeding values at once? That I cant understand.
    • hFly wrote:

      This one I could see it comming, it is indeed the core of the annoyance of Halberds and BP on Zvzs, the rings for Rending Spin helps a lot to know whats going on, BUT its REALLY hard to maintain hitting on the sweet spot because its too small, specially to non-USA countries that play with 150-250 ping. (tested against mobs and ZvZ). That being said, if you miss 1 Q the stacks reset and you can't apply constantly the anti-regen debuff. If you miss 1 Q you can't really make Axes works in a ZvZ, and is really easy to miss.
      This. With 150 ping it's almost impossible to hit outer circle on the moving target. As newish player who spent most of the points into the axe tree I just feel like quitting now.
    • Catqe wrote:

      hFly wrote:

      This one I could see it comming, it is indeed the core of the annoyance of Halberds and BP on Zvzs, the rings for Rending Spin helps a lot to know whats going on, BUT its REALLY hard to maintain hitting on the sweet spot because its too small, specially to non-USA countries that play with 150-250 ping. (tested against mobs and ZvZ). That being said, if you miss 1 Q the stacks reset and you can't apply constantly the anti-regen debuff. If you miss 1 Q you can't really make Axes works in a ZvZ, and is really easy to miss.
      This. With 150 ping it's almost impossible to hit outer circle on the moving target. As newish player who spent most of the points into the axe tree I just feel like quitting now.
      Lately devs come up with stupid ideas. CTA was worst of it. The feel of free world and being neutral is gone with this stupid faction war, and now puzzling changes on axes. I think of quitting too lately, every patch game gets worse.
    • soy jugador de gran hacha y vi un cambio muy drástico en los mapas 8.0 (solo) ya no puedo hacer 2 jefes juntos el del pico y el de la ballesta cuando están protegiendo el mismo cofre, antes si pero ya no puedo hacerlo no hay efecto de sangrado ya no hago tanto daño y además si no les pego a una distancia no les hago casi nada y ya en PvP peorrrrr tendré que cambiar de build ya no me renta la Gran hacha es basura... No se que hacerrrr... Porque este cambio tan exageradooooo
    • What a bunch of criers.

      Before Patch CTA4.0
      Axes were:
      1. BP Meta 1V1
      2. 3 axes meta 5V5, 10V10, 20V20.
      3. Axes was always the #1 sustain+Constant damage MDPS.
      4. Axes was easy top1 PVE build. YOU CAN STILL DO NICE PVE WITH BPAWS BTW.
      5. Axes can easily abuse double mercenary jackets

      Axes isn't the worst mele option still, in 5v5 maybe spear will be more used than before, but pretty sure axes will be easy top1 total damage.

      But i had to agree in one thing. W5 its a stupid nerf.
    • HIDKstr wrote:

      What a bunch of criers.

      Before Patch CTA4.0
      Axes were:
      1. BP Meta 1V1
      2. 3 axes meta 5V5, 10V10, 20V20.
      3. Axes was always the #1 sustain+Constant damage MDPS.
      4. Axes was easy top1 PVE build. YOU CAN STILL DO NICE PVE WITH BPAWS BTW.
      5. Axes can easily abuse double mercenary jackets

      Axes isn't the worst mele option still, in 5v5 maybe spear will be more used than before, but pretty sure axes will be easy top1 total damage.

      But i had to agree in one thing. W5 its a stupid nerf.
      I hope you are not talking about me because I clearly said that BPs are too strong and I even think the small nerf won't change anything about its strength (only on ZvZs, but small scale BPs will still be really strong).
      I agree with most of the nerfs, I just don't agree taking out the core of the tree that is the Bleed. If you nerf both the way you apply the Bleed AOE and the Bleed values you affect the whole tree and how the weapon can be used on large scale PVP and PVE.
      2v2 or 5v5 you can just use first or third Q that won't change much, but 5+ your goal is to apply the anti-regen debuff and DOT, if you nerf that to the ground you lose the weapon identity on that.
      IMO this is just pushing ranged weapons to DPS and melee to tank, and axes out of zvzs.
      But this is only MY opinion.
    • I've been playing with Axes for like a day now. I think that the "skillshot" aspect of the Axes makes them much more difficult to use, and honestly that's probably a good thing. I think that change is for the best. However, the massive damage nerfs across the board are overkill. Just adding the skill requirement to them will make damage less consistent and lower on average, no need to also take away extra dps.

      EDIT: Though, could we add a damage circle for Ragin Blades? It's really hard to tell exactly where your axes are hitting and when.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Tokaido ().

    • Axe and sword both need a total rework, seems pretty obvious now. They are linked somehow, swords complain about axes, axes complain about swords.

      Some ideas- heroic charge should affect CD and damage only, not normal attack speed which is trash for pvp swords and replaceable as a pve balancer.

      Axe Q should stack armor wreck not bleeds. Only axe W and E should give bleeds.

      Etc. - hopefully you will have a more formalized input process when you do the inevitable axe/sword rework. RN I'm not playing either of them even my travel set isn't axe anymore.
    • Shalako wrote:

      Axe and sword both need a total rework, seems pretty obvious now. They are linked somehow, swords complain about axes, axes complain about swords.

      Some ideas- heroic charge should affect CD and damage only, not normal attack speed which is trash for pvp swords and replaceable as a pve balancer.

      Axe Q should stack armor wreck not bleeds. Only axe W and E should give bleeds.

      Etc. - hopefully you will have a more formalized input process when you do the inevitable axe/sword rework. RN I'm not playing either of them even my travel set isn't axe anymore.
      I do agree that both Trees need a better identity as of right now they are all over the place.
    • Shalako wrote:

      Axe and sword both need a total rework, seems pretty obvious now. They are linked somehow, swords complain about axes, axes complain about swords.

      Some ideas- heroic charge should affect CD and damage only, not normal attack speed which is trash for pvp swords and replaceable as a pve balancer.

      Axe Q should stack armor wreck not bleeds. Only axe W and E should give bleeds.

      Etc. - hopefully you will have a more formalized input process when you do the inevitable axe/sword rework. RN I'm not playing either of them even my travel set isn't axe anymore.
      Axes dont complain on swords, swords doesn't complay on axes.
      People just say facts, W's from swords are trash but you can't buff swords cause prestackers are a thing.
      Axes were meta on 5v5 for months (more than 6). So there isn't point of comparation, saldy we got a ugly Q2 and W5. That things should get buff againt, but W2 its okay, people just need to start playing others W, actually W1 its very nice at 1V1 in some hard matches. (Not speed ones)
    • Damn... Returned to the game and axes are untouchable. I can't land a single Q at times because of high ping. It's unfortunate. Even the new Battle Axe E. I think it's a really good skill but the thin AOE skillshotiness combined with the need for Q bleed stacks which are hard to apply now is just terrible.
      But I guess it's now a low ping skillshot weapon now so Meh.
      You're most definitely pronouncing my nick wrong... wait till you see my real name tho.