Does alts are even profitable?

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    • Does alts are even profitable?

      Hi, I have hudge problem with money flow.

      When I started this game I've watched several guides on youtube. They always repeat one similar sentence: "Pick something, go fully into it, and it's starts to getting profitable". I've searched a lot and finaly decided to go into food crafting. I picked t7 omelette, because at that time was using a lot of them.

      As you know you need 3 things in order to do a omelette: corn, pork and goose eggs.

      So in order for me to have full 30k focus purley for crafting, I've decided to go for alts as follow:
      - Alt for corn
      - Alt for Pigs
      - Alt for carrots, in order to feed the pigs and gooses
      In total I am paing for them about 63M per 3 months (3x 21M premium)

      And I was totaly fine with that, but yesterday I've realised, that I am losing a lot of money due to this alts.

      Why?

      Let's do this for corn. My alt for corn with 5 plots (maxed island) can make x corns everyday. When we take x corns, and multiply it by it's price, we can measure, that one day can get y of profit. When we take that profit and multiply it by 90 (3 months premium) it's round about 18M in corn. So to sum up, I am paing 21M to have 3 months of premium on alt, and max I can made is 18M so I am -3M every month?

      With carrots it's look even worse, because it's 16M. Then I feed that 16M to gooses and obtain 15M in eggs. So I get even less.

      So how alts could be profitable? I've wanted to have even more of alts to speed up my resource gathering, but as I see it's better for me just to buy the resources, and then craft them instead growing for my own?

      Is there something I've missed?

      Any pro crafter can give me any tip?

      Thanks alot.
    • There is something you have missed.

      Maybe the fact that you do one of the Worst options when it comes to focus is a big factor lol. Like to be honest, i don´t know almost anything apart farming on island apart the idea that it is for newbies who don´t know what to do with focus. Maybe it´s better at high spec, i don´t know - it´s a god damn chore and i would never do that, so maybe it´s not bad, who knows. Same with animal raising.

      Now what is more common to do with alts is to specialise in some crafting ( no clue about pots, cooking etc), like some armor or weapon, something that gives good profit. And then you just get high or nearly max spec in everything and that´s it. You just craft with focus, and sell it in town or in black market if it´s decent profit.

      That´s it. I have one alt and hell, i am lazy to even log onto it. I just craft some shit, i dump it into black market, and i am done with it. How much profit it gives, i don´t know, but it should be alright. The filled books gives a decent profit i suppose.

      But i never calculated it much, so, yeah.
      My YT channel - Solo greataxe killing everything https://www.youtube.com/user/DhaosNK/video=7
    • At the moment, it is very hard to make a good amount of money per focus point.

      You are lucky if you manage to profit 1m a day with 10k focus, even if you are full specced in something.

      There are way too many people with full specs, a lot of alts, a lot of islands, with a lot of free time to play them all and move stuff, etc..

      Lets take food as an example:

      - I have 800/800 spec
      - To craft enchanted food you need to buy a lot of fish / chopped fish / seaweed, so to make the most profit out of it it may be worth to place buy orders in several cities
      - You need to move the resources, wich are very heavy, to caerleon in order to craft with bonus resource return rate
      - You need to move the food, or part of the food, out of caerleon, because your daily supply is way too high to be sold only at caerleon. Again, the food is heavy as fuck.
      - You get undercut 24/7. If you dont have time to be standing still at the market placing only 5-10 quantities of food each time you are fucked and your profit will be lost in undercut setup fees.

      All this to what? To get 1m net out of 10k focus? Id rather just do dungeons or gathering.

      Lets go to refining:

      - Im 100/100 t6, t7, t8 in hide, ore, fiber, planks refining.
      - If I simply teleport to each of the cities to refine with the resource return rate bonus, I will get very little profit per focus point.
      - The options are to either have more alts, and refine with them all, or refine only very high tier materials but it would take a lot to sell and you would get undercut.
      - Or, again, you could move stuff around, what is very time consuming nowadays.

      Take into account that every guild has people refining for them, so not everyone needs this service.

      Plus, it is a very easy skill to level up, and yhe profit was very high a few years ago, so there are a LOT of alts created since launch refining daily, with premium paid for years. You cant compete with them.

      Lets go to crafting:

      - if you want to make the most out of it, you may consider refining stuff yourself to start with
      - if you dont craft at the cities with the most resource return rate bonus you will hardly make a profit, so it will consume you a lot of time moving stuff
      - if you dont have islands to process journals yourself, you will barely get a profit out of the sold journals
      - consider selling to the black market, wich is far away as fuck nowadays from royal cities
      - craft only high tier stuff and pray to get masterpiece, but you will need a lot of money to start playing with
      - transmuting and alts camped at road of avalon best maps will always be able to profit more than you

      Farming:

      - waste of focus and time.

      So, in conclusion, the more time you spend playing with alts and moving stuff around, the more profit you make.

      As the time moves forward, the profit per focus point will be decreasing in any activity. It should have been rewored ages ago already.
    • Malkalma wrote:

      This is not IRL. You won't make more if you do everything because there are no qualities. Someone with 1k fame can grow the same carrots another guy with 100m fame can.
      If the guy with 1k fame keeps creating alts every 3 days to spend 30k focus on farms and then delete and repeat ye, it is about the same.

      Furthermore, the focus cost for refining is waaaay lower than for crafting, so you will get profit if you refine your stuff before crafting without a significant hit in the silver per focus racio.

      Please enlight me how profitable farms are, despite the fact it is the worst QoL feature in the game probably.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by MadSkillzDLR ().

    • MadSkillzDLR wrote:

      Malkalma wrote:

      This is not IRL. You won't make more if you do everything because there are no qualities. Someone with 1k fame can grow the same carrots another guy with 100m fame can.
      If the guy with 1k fame keeps creating alts every 3 days to spend 30k focus on farms and then delete and repeat ye, it is about the same.
      Furthermore, the focus cost for refining is waaaay lower than for crafting, so you will get profit if you refine your stuff before crafting without a significant hit in the silver per focus racio.

      Please enlight me how profitable farms are, despite the fact it is the worst QoL feature in the game probably.

      I craft 10 armors on what I spend 30k focus points and earn 200silver / focus points (10x3000*200 = 6m silvers) or I spend 12k focus points on refining and I craft 6 armors while earning 6x3000*200 = 3,6m silvers.

      As we can see, it might be better if I just spend all focus on crafting the gear.
    • MadSkillzDLR wrote:

      keeps creating alts every 3 days to spend 30k focus on farms and then delete and repeat
      Creating one alt takes 15min (minimum for a tutorial) and something (for /suicide and traveling to a final destination for focus spend), say 20min total.
      Farmer without spec, focusing one square costs 1000 focus, with 30k that's 30 carrot squares.
      And that's 60x carrot seeds, let's say they have a value of 1800 silver for one, that's 108k profit from 30k focus.
      20min for creating an alt character and for traveling, say 10 minutes for watering carrots (maybe more?..), that's about 30min for the whole process for a 108k profit?
      Hourly gain of 216k, that's really really little compared to other activities for profit ..
      (ok, ok, maybe some new player who doesn't have many options..but otherwise it's a terrible idea how to make money ..)
    • Your not doing the math correct.
      Example.
      Max carrot "Breeder" he he
      Can focus 80 plots each day.
      Typical yield is 9 carrots pr plot
      Typical 1 carrot sells for 300 silver
      Typical 1 seed bag sells for 1600 silver.

      9x80 = 720 carrots pr day.
      ((720 carrots *300 carrot price) + (80 extra seeds *1600 seed price ))*30 days = 10.3m pr 30 days

      It's assumed to make profits with ALTS that the ALT has max skill in something, else its a loss till the ALT gets to a decent level, call it investment if you like.


      Same applies for growing pigs, you need MAX !!!
      Hope it helped.
    • @krazzer
      As for the profit from focus, count only the seeds, 80 watered squares (if we are talking about the max spec in carrots) = 160 seeds, if we count 1600 per seed (as you wrote), then 160 x 1600 = 256k profit from focus per day , 256k x 30 days = 7 680 000 silver per 30 days (profit from focus).
      Why only seeds?
      Because if you harvest with any character, you will always have the carrots, the difference between focus (watering) and without focus is only seeds, using focus affect only gained seeds, so when it comes to profit from focus from alt character, it makes sense to count only that, what will make you focus from alt character, and that is seeds.
    • krazzer wrote:

      @CassX
      Technically no, because getting the carrots is part of the process in getting the seeds.
      Decision creating alt character for spending focus at harvest, is a bad decision, when it comes to silver per focus.
      (but I can imagine that the new player does not have so many options / knowledge, etc .. so ..)
      So if you go for the seeds, so you're going to spend focus, so count only what that focus will bring you, the difference what focus has made, in a given activity vs the same activity without focus.
      As I wrote, you have carrots with and without focus, the same harvest time (with focus a little longer due to watering clicks), so the focus of the alt character makes a difference only in the seeds, in nothing else.
      So if you want to calculate the profit from the alt character from focus, you only have to count what the focus will do to you at harvest, and these are the seeds, nothing else focus affect at harvest.
    • Malkalma wrote:

      CassX wrote:

      krazzer wrote:

      @CassX
      Technically no, because getting the carrots is part of the process in getting the seeds.
      so the focus of the alt character makes a difference only in the seeds, in nothing else.
      Spending focus on farming is bad idea.
      Yes, I agree.


      Malkalma wrote:

      Although isn't premium status double the harvested amount of stuff? Focus =/= premium status but in case they are connected...
      Yes, but I'm talking about harvesting two characters, both with premium status, one with focus, one without focus at harvest, and the only difference is the seeds.
      Both characters have the same amount crops, they are of course not affected by focus.
      (only the goddess Fortuna affects the crops..)

      And of course without premium status it practically makes no sense to harvest ..
    • CassX wrote:

      krazzer wrote:

      @CassX
      Technically no, because getting the carrots is part of the process in getting the seeds.
      Decision creating alt character for spending focus at harvest, is a bad decision, when it comes to silver per focus.(but I can imagine that the new player does not have so many options / knowledge, etc .. so ..)
      So if you go for the seeds, so you're going to spend focus, so count only what that focus will bring you, the difference what focus has made, in a given activity vs the same activity without focus.
      As I wrote, you have carrots with and without focus, the same harvest time (with focus a little longer due to watering clicks), so the focus of the alt character makes a difference only in the seeds, in nothing else.
      So if you want to calculate the profit from the alt character from focus, you only have to count what the focus will do to you at harvest, and these are the seeds, nothing else focus affect at harvest.
      Bad idea or not, it still pays for the premium for the ALT + little profit, which was my point.
      There are better options yes, but this wasn't the point.

      You also need to factor in the time spend while you do the activity.
      Getting XX silver pr focus is not relevant at all, time spend pr earned silver is relevant.
      Aka silver pr hour, with or without focus, thats how you make money, and this is what your "mental" focus should be at.
    • krazzer wrote:

      CassX wrote:

      krazzer wrote:

      @CassX
      Technically no, because getting the carrots is part of the process in getting the seeds.
      Decision creating alt character for spending focus at harvest, is a bad decision, when it comes to silver per focus.(but I can imagine that the new player does not have so many options / knowledge, etc .. so ..)So if you go for the seeds, so you're going to spend focus, so count only what that focus will bring you, the difference what focus has made, in a given activity vs the same activity without focus.
      As I wrote, you have carrots with and without focus, the same harvest time (with focus a little longer due to watering clicks), so the focus of the alt character makes a difference only in the seeds, in nothing else.
      So if you want to calculate the profit from the alt character from focus, you only have to count what the focus will do to you at harvest, and these are the seeds, nothing else focus affect at harvest.
      Bad idea or not, it still pays for the premium for the ALT + little profit, which was my point.There are better options yes, but this wasn't the point.

      You also need to factor in the time spend while you do the activity.
      Getting XX silver pr focus is not relevant at all, time spend pr earned silver is relevant.
      Aka silver pr hour, with or without focus, thats how you make money, and this is what your "mental" focus should be at.
      Activities that need focus points takes so low amount of time that it is irrelevant to calculate with silver per hour... Especially that in this case your focus is the limit... You can't spend 3 hours spending focus if you use all your focus under 5 minutes.
    • farming is the worst thing to spend focus on. From my experience (i have 14 alts) the easiest profit is refining. I avg 2-3 mil per alt at least every 3 days making my 9 mil investment a guaranteed 20-30 mil per month. My alts are of course max spec in refining and i have my tricks how to get the prices down. The second most profitable seems crafting (just some of my alts are max spec in crafting so it could be even more profitable). It seems that crafting with max spec could be super profitable over long period if crafting those juicy 8.3s for MP luck. There is also ways to make easy 2-3 mil thru books, BO and other smart moves consistently through crafting.
      There is quite a few nice income ways for prem alts, but for me what i have calculated farming is not worth it (Maybe max spec for someone who does potions or food). The best i got was 1 mil per day whit max spec char farmer doing multiple islands (i think 2) and selling the seeds as the actual moneymaker.
      So i say that if you do your research its easy to double or triple your investment into prem through alts. And the keyphraze is SPEC SPEC SPEC!
    • krazzer wrote:

      it still pays for the premium for the ALT + little profit, which was my point.
      I'm not saying that premium status won't pay off for you, I'm saying that the real profit from the alt character for the harvest is just out of focus, just the seeds.


      krazzer wrote:

      You also need to factor in the time spend while you do the activity.
      Ok, 80 squares, it will take you about 10 minutes.
      Profit (say carrots) is 160 seeds x 1800? = 288,000 silver. (focus on alt character for carrot harvest)
      Potion craft (I have alt character and craft t8.0 poison potions, so my own experience), way to market, buy herbs, way to shop, craft, way to market, sell, about 10 minutes, profit around 900k-1mil (according to the prices of herbs, potions on market, etc.).
      This is just one example out of many.
      And you see the difference, about the same time, and the difference in profit that comes from focus is striking.
      Why would I spend 10 minutes on the harvest with focus, when I can earn 3 times more with 10k focus, in the same amount of time?
    • CassX wrote:

      krazzer wrote:

      it still pays for the premium for the ALT + little profit, which was my point.
      I'm not saying that premium status won't pay off for you, I'm saying that the real profit from the alt character for the harvest is just out of focus, just the seeds.

      krazzer wrote:

      You also need to factor in the time spend while you do the activity.
      Ok, 80 squares, it will take you about 10 minutes.Profit (say carrots) is 160 seeds x 1800? = 288,000 silver. (focus on alt character for carrot harvest)
      Potion craft (I have alt character and craft t8.0 poison potions, so my own experience), way to market, buy herbs, way to shop, craft, way to market, sell, about 10 minutes, profit around 900k-1mil (according to the prices of herbs, potions on market, etc.).
      This is just one example out of many.
      And you see the difference, about the same time, and the difference in profit that comes from focus is striking.
      Why would I spend 10 minutes on the harvest with focus, when I can earn 3 times more with 10k focus, in the same amount of time?
      This is very incorrect, you can't just dump a stack of 99999 potions on the vendor, and they sell by magic over night, i have max alchemy too, and just getting the mats from buyorders, changing prices etc etc takes a very long time. Same applies to sell orders.
    • krazzer wrote:

      CassX wrote:

      krazzer wrote:

      it still pays for the premium for the ALT + little profit, which was my point.
      I'm not saying that premium status won't pay off for you, I'm saying that the real profit from the alt character for the harvest is just out of focus, just the seeds.

      krazzer wrote:

      You also need to factor in the time spend while you do the activity.
      Ok, 80 squares, it will take you about 10 minutes.Profit (say carrots) is 160 seeds x 1800? = 288,000 silver. (focus on alt character for carrot harvest)Potion craft (I have alt character and craft t8.0 poison potions, so my own experience), way to market, buy herbs, way to shop, craft, way to market, sell, about 10 minutes, profit around 900k-1mil (according to the prices of herbs, potions on market, etc.).
      This is just one example out of many.
      And you see the difference, about the same time, and the difference in profit that comes from focus is striking.
      Why would I spend 10 minutes on the harvest with focus, when I can earn 3 times more with 10k focus, in the same amount of time?
      This is very incorrect, you can't just dump a stack of 99999 potions on the vendor, and they sell by magic over night, i have max alchemy too, and just getting the mats from buyorders, changing prices etc etc takes a very long time. Same applies to sell orders.
      Around 275 pieces of 8.0 potions of 10k focus, and yes, they magically sell in a few hours ..
      When it comes to herbs, you just need to have a supplier or harvest it yourself (without focus, you increase the profit with this style ), but you can also get it on the market, unless of course you go craft out of 30k focus, you need quite a lot, but if you craft daily with 10k focus, even in the instant market buy it goes.

      but that's just as an example, craft items + laborers, or refining is better, but if someone wants to have alt characters for the harvest, feel free to have it, everyone's thing, but i wouldn't do it ;)