QS

    • Corrupted is a DESIGN PROBLEM not a health regen problem. You made a 1v1 fight arena that is 5x bigger than HGs. This makes no sense the smaller amount of players involved should always also involved smaller fighting space. Also what is the point in having infinite loops available for kiting freely? Again these are your problems you actively discouraged fighting by making this weird 1v1 design. If you do that 200% health regen idea that is just going to be a rat fiesta of healers and bow players who can easily win every match without actually doing any fighting. It is possible to have enough space for kiters to fight but remove the full reset potential for them at the same time. The issue today is they are abusing the design to get full CDs back safely providing kiting builds with insane advantages.

      You have the mechanic already to fix this as several people mentioned above now. Add the lava to CDs however you should make the lava not do damage and instead act as a pure block mechanic to stop infinite running. The design should be completely overhauled at some point to remove the circle loops as well but for now adding the lava would be something. The idea should be to encourage fighting and provide adequate reward for that risk. The rewards are actually decent in CDs but the risk is laughable. What is wrong with this idea of forced fighting (especially if that is increased over time with the lava bringing balance to all fight styles)? With the rewards of CDs people should go into dungeons knowing that either they are their opponent is going to die. None of this meh let's hold hands and go break shards shit.
    • And if you insist on your 200% health regen do it at least right ..

      You have a health regen pool of 200% of your total life
      If u do damage to a monster 50% of the damage you dealt goes in refresh of your life regen pool
      100% of the damage you deal to a player go in refresh of your life regen pool

      Basic idea: limited life regen pool, in order to use or refresh it u need to fight..

      This doesn't need to be limited to cd or anything ..can be generic. Every scenario..And u still can handle healers as u actually fight them and can use this damage to refill u regen pool and reset it..
    • Tabor wrote:

      Corrupted is a DESIGN PROBLEM not a health regen problem. You made a 1v1 fight arena that is 5x bigger than HGs. This makes no sense the smaller amount of players involved should always also involved smaller fighting space. Also what is the point in having infinite loops available for kiting freely? Again these are your problems you actively discouraged fighting by making this weird 1v1 design. If you do that 200% health regen idea that is just going to be a rat fiesta of healers and bow players who can easily win every match without actually doing any fighting. It is possible to have enough space for kiters to fight but remove the full reset potential for them at the same time. The issue today is they are abusing the design to get full CDs back safely providing kiting builds with insane advantages.

      You have the mechanic already to fix this as several people mentioned above now. Add the lava to CDs however you should make the lava not do damage and instead act as a pure block mechanic to stop infinite running. The design should be completely overhauled at some point to remove the circle loops as well but for now adding the lava would be something. The idea should be to encourage fighting and provide adequate reward for that risk. The rewards are actually decent in CDs but the risk is laughable. What is wrong with this idea of forced fighting (especially if that is increased over time with the lava bringing balance to all fight styles)? With the rewards of CDs people should go into dungeons knowing that either they are their opponent is going to die. None of this meh let's hold hands and go break shards shit.
      It will not work. You will get a mirror effect in such a case. I agree, that the reset mechanic gives a huge advantage to a player, who can reset a fight. Such a player can repeat it while an enemy will make some huge mistake and the fight continues while it will happen. But the lava mechanic is the same. An engaging build will just run away and wait until a kiting build player will use his mobility skills to start a fight. Then just turn around and kill. That's what crossbow players usually do.
      The trick is that kiting build will not have other options, because lava will anyway force him to a close fight.

      I really don't understand, what wrong all of you see in hit-and-run gameplay? It was always mentioned, that Albion has a MOBA-like combat system. Say any Dota, or LOL player, that you don't like hit-and-run and he will suppose you to switch a game. It's a core principle, which leads to positioning, micro-control, and others sides, which makes that genre popular. If you like just close fight in a limited area, maybe you need to try something like this:
    • Retroman wrote:

      Hey,
      reworking Q and W for Quarterstaff would heavily impact the playstyle of Quarter Staffs in other types of content. The current combat balance changes on Quarter Staffs are meant to tone down a bit in it's ability to easily reset the fight.

      However, I guess what many of you are asking for is to remove inifite resets inside of Corrupted Dungeons,... regadless of the items used. We are already discussing internally possible changes of Corrupted Dungeon mechancis in general. For instance by possibly limiting the amount of health that can regenerated during an invasion. i,e 200% of max hitpoints can be regenerated per invasion in total and once this is used up you don't get anymore out of combat regeneration at all.

      In general if we want to remove these reset strategies by only tweaking weapons and armors, we would have to change way too much on how the combat plays out in all other content of the game.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      Why not make all armor regen the same inside corrupted? And then make it spawn a wall that pushes slowly towards the center, not lava, but just a wall, so you have less and less room to reset, and have to make a choice, you smash and leave, or you fight in a close room.

      the 200% of max hp hitpoints regen is just going to make healers abuse it.
    • BackOFF wrote:

      I really don't understand, what wrong all of you see in hit-and-run gameplay?
      Coz it is unbalanced... and there is 0 kiting builds in other content in albion. Even gank is not kiting - they cant kite small scale setup party.
      All other MOBA are 5v5 and 5v5 in albion dont play in kiting style too. Its only problem of 1v1 in closed dungeon.


      BackOFF wrote:

      The trick is that kiting build will not have other options, because lava will anyway force him to a close fight.
      Thats right! Kiting builds should not be used at all. Almost all weapons trees have damage buff/debuff skills that should be used in 1v1 fights
    • @BackOFF the issue is the current players are not hit and run kiting. They are engaging and if everything goes perfectly they continue to fight. If they fuck up or get rocked they fully reset. The key point here is they are not kiting/fighting they are instead full disengaging thus having 0 risk game play. Their mistakes are meaningless because they can infinite reset until the situation is perfect. That is what is broken they are making 0 attempt to actually skillfully kite because the poor design does not require them to have any idea how to do so.
    • Tabor wrote:

      @BackOFF the issue is the current players are not hit and run kiting. They are engaging and if everything goes perfectly they continue to fight. If they fuck up or get rocked they fully reset. The key point here is they are not kiting/fighting they are instead full disengaging thus having 0 risk game play. Their mistakes are meaningless because they can infinite reset until the situation is perfect. That is what is broken they are making 0 attempt to actually skillfully kite because the poor design does not require them to have any idea how to do so.
      kiting is fully okay. But in case u fked up u run in circle till u full again. In case u plate u are full faster then u retry ...loop... loop... loop...loop ..loop..loop... loop..won next
    • Retroman wrote:

      Hey,
      reworking Q and W for Quarterstaff would heavily impact the playstyle of Quarter Staffs in other types of content. The current combat balance changes on Quarter Staffs are meant to tone down a bit in it's ability to easily reset the fight.

      However, I guess what many of you are asking for is to remove inifite resets inside of Corrupted Dungeons,... regadless of the items used. We are already discussing internally possible changes of Corrupted Dungeon mechancis in general. For instance by possibly limiting the amount of health that can regenerated during an invasion. i,e 200% of max hitpoints can be regenerated per invasion in total and once this is used up you don't get anymore out of combat regeneration at all.

      In general if we want to remove these reset strategies by only tweaking weapons and armors, we would have to change way too much on how the combat plays out in all other content of the game.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      But the "playstyle" of QS give a extremely high rate of win to QS in corrupteds.. So you mean QS should keep be broken? :huh:

      Retroman wrote:

      Cartwheel (all Quarterstaffs)


      Move Speed Bonus: 30% -> 20%
      This will change nothing.. What makes QS broken is the hit->stun->run->you cant catch him->hit->stun->and again.
    • Retroman

      Cartwheel = Speed buff only applies when hit by another PLAYER. QS are rolling through mobs that should SLOW them and gaining a speed buff as they get hit.

      Stun Run = failure to hit a player at the end of the duration will instead stun you for 3 seconds. As soon as you stun another player you lose the speed buff.

      Knight Armor = reduce the size of the wall by 30% to prevent it from completely blocking corrupted dungeon hallways. This would at least people to go around it.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Painball ().

    • Retroman wrote:

      Hey,
      reworking Q and W for Quarterstaff would heavily impact the playstyle of Quarter Staffs in other types of content. The current combat balance changes on Quarter Staffs are meant to tone down a bit in it's ability to easily reset the fight.

      However, I guess what many of you are asking for is to remove inifite resets inside of Corrupted Dungeons,... regadless of the items used. We are already discussing internally possible changes of Corrupted Dungeon mechancis in general. For instance by possibly limiting the amount of health that can regenerated during an invasion. i,e 200% of max hitpoints can be regenerated per invasion in total and once this is used up you don't get anymore out of combat regeneration at all.

      In general if we want to remove these reset strategies by only tweaking weapons and armors, we would have to change way too much on how the combat plays out in all other content of the game.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      That would lead to hallowfall meta :) maybe just block generous heal ability in CDG?
    • Retroman wrote:

      Hey,
      reworking Q and W for Quarterstaff would heavily impact the playstyle of Quarter Staffs in other types of content. The current combat balance changes on Quarter Staffs are meant to tone down a bit in it's ability to easily reset the fight.

      However, I guess what many of you are asking for is to remove inifite resets inside of Corrupted Dungeons,... regadless of the items used. We are already discussing internally possible changes of Corrupted Dungeon mechancis in general. For instance by possibly limiting the amount of health that can regenerated during an invasion. i,e 200% of max hitpoints can be regenerated per invasion in total and once this is used up you don't get anymore out of combat regeneration at all.

      In general if we want to remove these reset strategies by only tweaking weapons and armors, we would have to change way too much on how the combat plays out in all other content of the game.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      How it impact other type of content , if for example , we will get this 2 changes.
      - Stun Run Bonus MS buff will go off when you stun target
      - First Q Bonus MS will work only from PvP damage, not mobs/traps.
      ----
      Problem not only in inifinite resets, it is just part of a problem.
      P.S Also , please rework god damn WindWall. People are complaining about it for ages, and there is an obvious reason why. I can bet ,even if you just delete it from the game almost noone will complain :P

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Equart ().

    • Ok, maybe my reply from yesterday was giving the wrong impression.

      We can of course make further adjustments to abilites and items, i.e. Quarterstaff in this case. In fact yesterday we already toned the hit and run playstyle down a fair bit more. (see the NDA thread)
      This is the procedure we have been doing in the past for other items too, that were too problematic in Corrupted Dungeons However these changes will never be enough to get completely rid of any infinte Reset strategeies.

      I got the impression from the first post in this thread that the player expectation is that we therefore overhaul a lot of the abilities to remove this playstyle completely. But complete reworks would also change how entire weapon trees would be played in all other content. If Cartwheel and Stun Run would be completely reworked that means Quarterstaff tanks in 5v5 would be completel different too and the current playstyle would not exist anymore. If you mean tweaking and adjusting abilities to be less problematic in Corrupted Dungeons, that is something we can do.

      But to fix infinte resets in Corrupted Dungeons once and for all, we want to instead introduce some form of 'Sudden Death'-condition specifically for Corrupted Dungeons. That is why we are currently discussing what could be a good solution that helps us achieve this goal in the near future (in a patch and not the next big update). The current proposal is:
      If a player attacked another player during an invastion a timer activates. Then after 150s both players cannot get out of combat anymore.' When we do this we probably also add a permanent Healing Power Debuff in CD, similiarly like in 2v2 HGs. Your feedback on this proposal is of course welcome.

      As for other more complicated solutions like adding the lava from Hell Gates. First on a design aproach I think there are problems with many of the stones becoming unreachable very early. also depending on the mape. I am not 100% familiar with the setup of the design for Corrupted Dungeons, but I doubt it can easily be just added to CD, since they were not build from scratch to support this mechanic, technically. And if it is a bigger rework that means we can not do it in a patch and also we would have to free a lot of resources, which we need to work on the next update.

      And lastly while we are at the topic of reworks and patch schedule. I would like to share a general bit about this from our point of view, why things can often not easily be changed immediately. This is because Albion is a very feature & content intensive game, there are limitations in terms of workflow and manpower. The team is working on a lot of different topics at once. A big proportion of our manpower is always allocated to working on the next content update, so we can have another big update. While we also have to keep an eye on the live game and have to make constant changes on multiple fronts there in patches. Like currently we have changes to Hell Gates, Combat Balance Patch, preparing the Mobile Version for launch, server performance in big fights, Crystal League improvements, changes to the Tutorial, etc already currently in the pipeline. These topics require coders, designers, artists to jump on these topics and work on them, often juggling between multiple topics at once. And then in the end all these changes need to be build into dedicated patches that we upload where it is checked by the same QA staff, which need time to check every change. So there are some limitation on how quickly we can roll out patches and how big the changes in them can be. Whenever we do a hotfix it costs us more time in the long run and messes with all the scheduling of the other improvements, which are then set back. So we want to do hotfixes sparingly as possible.

      What i want to commmunicate with this is: I can understand that from a player point of view it can be frustating if changes and patches take some time, but from a developer point of view it is unavoidable to need some time before rolling out improvements. The SBI staff works a lot and cares a lot about the game and everyone here is working relentlessly on it. But Game Development takes a lot of time and the bigger the game gets the more time it takes, simply because there is so many topics and intervowen features that need to be worked on simultaniously.

      I hope this makes the intended direction and reasoning for it a bit more clear. And like always feedback is very welcome, but please try to stay constructive.

      Cheers,
      Retro
    • I'm just throwing out ideas here and trying to offer solutions alongside my absolute disgust with the Quarterstaff meta (which btw is the most popular weapon in slayer now).

      If you are looking at changes that wont break the Meta then maybe relook at Heretic Cape as a better way to snare your opponent. I am not sure that this is being used in any aspect of the game right now due to its weak design. If I could use this to counter quarterstaff resets AND rats at the same time then it would be worth wearing into CD's.

      There is currently a streamer that is bragging on Twitch about his 91 game win streak on quarterstaff so you need to understand that people think this is more deserving of a hotfix than a normal patch.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Painball ().