Heron Spear is kinda meh

    • Combat Balance
    • Heron Spear is kinda meh

      Can we get E's CD down to 20 sec instead of 25 ? It won't make the weapon game breaking and overall way easier to kite.
      Imo heron spear plays a lot similar to warbow with a stun; but even then I don't think 25 sec is justified for a 2.5 sec stun

      The post was edited 1 time, last by unknownX1 ().

    • Deep Leap (1 hand mace) has the approximately the same stun and damage with a smaller stun AOE. It's also has 25 sec cool down.

      I play Heron spear too, (and pretty much all other CC weapons). I think that the 25 sec cooldown is balanced.

      You forget that Heron is a 1 hand weapon while warbow is 2 hands, meaning that you can stack up CDR with mist caller, which warbow cannot. Mistcaller also reduce cooldown on your boots.

      Mistcaller + Quick Thinker + Omellete => you get a 18 sec cooldown spear throw.
      Solo/duo player.
      Play mostly tank
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • SpicyPepper wrote:

      Deep Leap (1 hand mace) has the approximately the same stun and damage with a smaller stun AOE. It's also has 25 sec cool down.

      I play Heron spear too, (and pretty much all other CC weapons). I think that the 25 sec cooldown is balanced.

      You forget that Heron is a 1 hand weapon while warbow is 2 hands, meaning that you can stack up CDR with mist caller, which warbow cannot. Mistcaller also reduce cooldown on your boots.

      Mistcaller + Quick Thinker + Omellete => you get a 18 sec cooldown spear throw.
      I get it, but at the same time.
      Magic arrow is on a 10 sec CD, 8 sec just with an omelette. And mana cost is double, 30 war bow, 60 heron spear
      Mace; ok has the same CD but you get way more value from landing your E, cause you get a lot of dmg from Q2 and W1 and have time to throw a poison as well

      Maybe not the cool down, but something kinda has to change.

      If you hit someone 20 meters away you get almost no value off of it, cause none of your other abilities has that type of reach and if someone decides to disengage you can't really do anything unless u commit to using boots.

      Even pretending that someone will purposely chase you for 18 sec (using the set up you suggested) without a real way to catch them (unless you commit to using boots), it's rough.
      Aand if they don't use their boots to engage on you, they'll be out of combat by then = regen
    • unknownX1 wrote:

      I get it, but at the same time.Magic arrow is on a 10 sec CD, 8 sec just with an omelette. And mana cost is double, 30 war bow, 60 heron spear
      Mace; ok has the same CD but you get way more value from landing your E, cause you get a lot of dmg from Q2 and W1 and have time to throw a poison as well

      Maybe not the cool down, but something kinda has to change.

      If you hit someone 20 meters away you get almost no value off of it, cause none of your other abilities has that type of reach and if someone decides to disengage you can't really do anything unless u commit to using boots.

      Even pretending that someone will purposely chase you for 18 sec (using the set up you suggested) without a real way to catch them (unless you commit to using boots), it's rough.
      Aand if they don't use their boots to engage on you, they'll be out of combat by then = regen
      You are assuming warbow and heron fighting in 1 v 1 situation. Try fight 5 people with warbow then with heron and you will start appreciating the AOE stun.

      Warbow is a purely solo PVP weapon, while Heron is very flexible are are useful in all kind of fight, from solo PvP all the way to 100 men ZvZ.

      For example, if you roam in duo, a bow of badon + Heron is way more stronger kiting duo than 2 warbow.
      Solo/duo player.
      Play mostly tank
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • Well, yeah. Problem with heron is: " ok , I throw, I hit... Then what? It's not an engage cc weapon since it's only one CC ability compared to a Mace ir Even hammer. So I Will get 100% hammer and maces if CC is My gameplay.

      Damage is low compared to other one handed weapons (broadsword, bloodletter)

      Would be much much better with lower CD (20 secs is perfect) than last damage buff.
    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      Well, yeah. Problem with heron is: " ok , I throw, I hit... Then what? It's not an engage cc weapon since it's only one CC ability compared to a Mace ir Even hammer. So I Will get 100% hammer and maces if CC is My gameplay.

      Damage is low compared to other one handed weapons (broadsword, bloodletter)

      Would be much much better with lower CD (20 secs is perfect) than last damage buff.
      If you rely on Nonstop stuns to win a fight... you are compensating for your lack of skillful gameplay by using stuns.. This isn't an insult it is a mere observation based upon what you said and your scenarios. Personally I would work on tactical gameplay and learning multiple build setups including metas so you can learn ways to counter them. I suggest watching Jimbernator on twitch he is a skillful spear player and consistently uses Heron spear in CD. CD doesn't always apply to open world but with Heron spear Jim's interactions will actually help you learn the weapon and how to play it vs other matchups and 1v2 situations. or group situations.
    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      Well, yeah. Problem with heron is: " ok , I throw, I hit... Then what? It's not an engage cc weapon since it's only one CC ability compared to a Mace ir Even hammer. So I Will get 100% hammer and maces if CC is My gameplay.

      Damage is low compared to other one handed weapons (broadsword, bloodletter)

      Would be much much better with lower CD (20 secs is perfect) than last damage buff.
      Heron is a hybrid between CC and dps. Why r you comparing Heron's damage to pure dps, and Heron's CC to pure CC weapon ??

      Try finding any CC weapon that deals more damage than Heron, or any dps weapon that have such kind of CC.

      It will be quite broken with a 20 sec cooldown. Hammer's E has about 15 sec cooldown with shorter range and smaller AOE, and they generate like ~ half of Heron damage output.

      A low cooldown spear throw is the equivalent of a hammer that can smack people to death by himself without the need of demon cape. Hammer hit like wet noodle and people are already complaining about how they generate much damage with armor piercing.
      Solo/duo player.
      Play mostly tank
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • Rainphase wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      Well, yeah. Problem with heron is: " ok , I throw, I hit... Then what? It's not an engage cc weapon since it's only one CC ability compared to a Mace ir Even hammer. So I Will get 100% hammer and maces if CC is My gameplay.

      Damage is low compared to other one handed weapons (broadsword, bloodletter)

      Would be much much better with lower CD (20 secs is perfect) than last damage buff.
      If you rely on Nonstop stuns to win a fight... you are compensating for your lack of skillful gameplay by using stuns.. This isn't an insult it is a mere observation based upon what you said and your scenarios. Personally I would work on tactical gameplay and learning multiple build setups including metas so you can learn ways to counter them. I suggest watching Jimbernator on twitch he is a skillful spear player and consistently uses Heron spear in CD. CD doesn't always apply to open world but with Heron spear Jim's interactions will actually help you learn the weapon and how to play it vs other matchups and 1v2 situations. or group situations.
      I don't get your Point. Most tanks rely on cc to win battles at gvg or ZvZ. That's not lack of anything, just a balanced team of weapon this Game Point at. Of course I follow jimbenator but CD is not Open world, GvG or ZvZ. And spear is My Main weapon btw.

      SpicyPepper wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      Well, yeah. Problem with heron is: " ok , I throw, I hit... Then what? It's not an engage cc weapon since it's only one CC ability compared to a Mace ir Even hammer. So I Will get 100% hammer and maces if CC is My gameplay.

      Damage is low compared to other one handed weapons (broadsword, bloodletter)

      Would be much much better with lower CD (20 secs is perfect) than last damage buff.
      Heron is a hybrid between CC and dps. Why r you comparing Heron's damage to pure dps, and Heron's CC to pure CC weapon ??
      Try finding any CC weapon that deals more damage than Heron, or any dps weapon that have such kind of CC.

      It will be quite broken with a 20 sec cooldown. Hammer's E has about 15 sec cooldown with shorter range and smaller AOE, and they generate like ~ half of Heron damage output.

      A low cooldown spear throw is the equivalent of a hammer that can smack people to death by himself without the need of demon cape. Hammer hit like wet noodle and people are already complaining about how they generate much damage with armor piercing.
      I'm comparing cause it's one of Main problems of spears: Jack of all trades but not a Main option for most players.
      CC one handed hammer combo is way better than heron. And damage don't see a difference tbh.

      About the last, I said damage buff / cd reduction. Only one. Not both.
    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      I'm comparing cause it's one of Main problems of spears: Jack of all trades but not a Main option for most players.CC one handed hammer combo is way better than heron. And damage don't see a difference tbh.

      About the last, I said damage buff / cd reduction. Only one. Not both.
      One handed hammer is only for PvE, it's a complete garbage in PvP.

      No, no hammer deals damage anywhere near that of any spear.
      Solo/duo player.
      Play mostly tank
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • Rainphase wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      Well, yeah. Problem with heron is: " ok , I throw, I hit... Then what? It's not an engage cc weapon since it's only one CC ability compared to a Mace ir Even hammer. So I Will get 100% hammer and maces if CC is My gameplay.

      Damage is low compared to other one handed weapons (broadsword, bloodletter)

      Would be much much better with lower CD (20 secs is perfect) than last damage buff.
      If you rely on Nonstop stuns to win a fight... you are compensating for your lack of skillful gameplay by using stuns.. This isn't an insult it is a mere observation based upon what you said and your scenarios. Personally I would work on tactical gameplay and learning multiple build setups including metas so you can learn ways to counter them. I suggest watching Jimbernator on twitch he is a skillful spear player and consistently uses Heron spear in CD. CD doesn't always apply to open world but with Heron spear Jim's interactions will actually help you learn the weapon and how to play it vs other matchups and 1v2 situations. or group situations.
      I mean it's a stun every 20 seconds (if u hit it cause it's a skill shot) + it's 2.5 sec (that's the stun duration in stalker CD, Idk how well it scales with IP cause I've been trying the weapon out only recently)

      I feel like 20 sec will make the weapon less clunky that's all, it won't make it the next ooga booga weapon... crossbows already have that role :P
    • unknownX1 wrote:

      I mean it's a stun every 20 seconds (if u hit it cause it's a skill shot) + it's 2.5 sec (that's the stun duration in stalker CD, Idk how well it scales with IP cause I've been trying the weapon out only recently)
      I feel like 20 sec will make the weapon less clunky that's all, it won't make it the next ooga booga weapon... crossbows already have that role :P
      A heron with 20 sec cooldown is a new pre-nerfed tombhammer, considering how much damage it generate compare to tombhammer.
      Solo/duo player.
      Play mostly tank
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • unknownX1 wrote:

      all I'm saying is that if qs and tombhammers get AOE stuns on 15 sec cd, I don't get why a skill shot shouldn't get a tiny less cd
      It's a freaking hybrid, how can you compare it to full fledge tank weapon like staves or hammers.

      Hammer deals no damage. Look how much damage Heron generate: youtu.be/MfMSo9FepSg?t=43

      You want a weapon dealing that much damage that have a stun like a full fledge tank weapon ?? 25 sec is already low enough.
      Solo/duo player.
      Play mostly tank
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • IMO bigger issue is that a hybrid weapon class is better off using cloth or plate armour instead of leather, which is supposed to be the go-to choice for hybrid builds.
      There isnt much armor pieces complimenting the "mid-range poke bruiser" playstyle, as most of the leather garments are clearly made with the intention of sticking to your target.
      Jacket of Tenacity rework/buff, perhaps?
    • SpicyPepper wrote:


      unknownX1 wrote:

      all I'm saying is that if qs and tombhammers get AOE stuns on 15 sec cd, I don't get why a skill shot shouldn't get a tiny less cd
      It's a freaking hybrid, how can you compare it to full fledge tank weapon like staves or hammers.
      Hammer deals no damage. Look how much damage Heron generate: youtu.be/MfMSo9FepSg?t=43

      You want a weapon dealing that much damage that have a stun like a full fledge tank weapon ?? 25 sec is already low enough.
      I mean qs' E does more dmg than heron's, on shorter cool down, Iframe, mobility of 15 m, 5m radius so way less precise than a skill shot and can combo into stun run


      soooo it's quarterstaff a hybrid too ?