Reason why crafting is not profitable (unless)

    • Economy

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    • Reason why crafting is not profitable (unless)

      First answer this question. Crafting is not profitable we know this, unless high level. Crafted items sell for less than mats.
      And the question is:

      -Who buys those mats ?

      Surely it's not people who train crafting. They buy cheap items and study them for more fame than u get from crafting, and for less cost.
      Then who ?

      Using focus with low level crafting is just waste. Profit is very small compared to focus used with farming. Who buys those mats and waste credits by crafting items if he could just buy them to study ?

      To give you a hint answer different question ?

      -where these items people buy to study come from ?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Unangwata ().

    • Pretty sure it can be boiled down to a supply and demand issue.

      If I had to guess why low-tier isn't in demand is that you can gain fame from a max level build you have, especially if it's a farm build. One can use those fame points into low level builds without ever touching the lower tier gear. Plus gaining fame is much easier than what it used to be back when I played (almost 4 years ago) so one is going to level out of T3-5 gear quickly quickly, just like one would level out of leveling gear from a theme park MMO.

      I was in the BZ farming T5 BZ solo-dungeons quickly getting out of T4 and into T5 in just a matter of an hr? If that? Getting into T6 wasn't that difficult either.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Darlantan ().

    • Not really. The reason the market on low tiers is like we have it is rather simple, but nothing you would expect.
      It is: people are unaware that crafting items is not profitable and that studying items teaches you more. Hard to believe but this is the case.
      People spend their mats on crafting to learn, unaware they can study them instead of selling or just buy them and study. They are not aware they can get more money from selling mats than from crafting items that they trying to sell. Seems absurd but that's the only reason. That's why with higher tiers it starts to change and market looks different as knowledge of players changes.

      If people were aware that selling mats give more profit then they would sell those mats instead of crafting items. Also if they knew they can study items to learn crafting cheaper way then they would buy items for that purpose. This would create less demand for mats (because nobody would train crafting with crafting..) and higher demand for items (because everyone would buy them for study and no one would produce them). It would change to the point were mats get cheaper than product and that would force people to craft again to study or sell.

      What we need is education.
      Not in form of guides and videos because the main problem is that majority of people (especially new ones) don't seek information, until some point. So what we need is to throw information in their face.
      Best way would be in form of tutorial, that ask you to study crafted item and tells you that this is very good way to get more crafting fame and is very good way to progress crafting
      No other solution comes to my mind, because the problem is lack of knowledge of players.

      All this seems rather insignificant but it could change a lot.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Unangwata ().

    • Unangwata wrote:

      What we need is education.
      XD Just do the maths and stop saying non-senses. Check Blackmarket + Markets and u will see why.

      + If no one craft t5, t5 to refine will be extremely cheap, so u will break the market of mats then craftin will be better... (Its a cycle btw)

      + If you craft T6 you will get profit always with books + focus.

      + IF T5 get extrmly cheap t6 will too, maybe some other mats too 'cause there is something called transmutation

      Just do the maths and the hypothetical cases that u say
    • Unangwata wrote:

      Not really. The reason the market on low tiers is like we have it is rather simple, but nothing you would expect.
      It is: people are unaware that crafting items is not profitable and that studying items teaches you more. Hard to believe but this is the case.
      People spend their mats on crafting to learn, unaware they can study them instead of selling or just buy them and study. They are not aware they can get more money from selling mats than from crafting items that they trying to sell. Seems absurd but that's the only reason. That's why with higher tiers it starts to change and market looks different as knowledge of players changes.

      If people were aware that selling mats give more profit then they would sell those mats instead of crafting items. Also if they knew they can study items to learn crafting cheaper way then they would buy items for that purpose. This would create less demand for mats (because nobody would train crafting with crafting..) and higher demand for items (because everyone would buy them for study and no one would produce them). It would change to the point were mats get cheaper than product and that would force people to craft again to study or sell.

      What we need is education.
      Not in form of guides and videos because the main problem is that majority of people (especially new ones) don't seek information, until some point. So what we need is to throw information in their face.
      Best way would be in form of tutorial, that ask you to study crafted item and tells you that this is very good way to get more crafting fame and is very good way to progress crafting
      No other solution comes to my mind, because the problem is lack of knowledge of players.

      All this seems rather insignificant but it could change a lot.
      I guess I thought your question was, why do the items not sell much in the lower tiers. Thus I answered accordingly.

      But you're correct in the study part, in fact it's what I do. Place buy orders and study the Items.

      But at the same time one thing you're missing in your equation is time, some people don't want to wait while the buy orders (or even have the money) to study the items. Sometimes I do this if the day is slow and I'll gather/refine/craft/study the items and just turn in the crafting books for some monetary gain. What's funny is the books sell faster than anything I place on the market, even gathering resources.
    • Darlantan wrote:

      Unangwata wrote:

      Not really. The reason the market on low tiers is like we have it is rather simple, but nothing you would expect.
      It is: people are unaware that crafting items is not profitable and that studying items teaches you more. Hard to believe but this is the case.
      People spend their mats on crafting to learn, unaware they can study them instead of selling or just buy them and study. They are not aware they can get more money from selling mats than from crafting items that they trying to sell. Seems absurd but that's the only reason. That's why with higher tiers it starts to change and market looks different as knowledge of players changes.

      If people were aware that selling mats give more profit then they would sell those mats instead of crafting items. Also if they knew they can study items to learn crafting cheaper way then they would buy items for that purpose. This would create less demand for mats (because nobody would train crafting with crafting..) and higher demand for items (because everyone would buy them for study and no one would produce them). It would change to the point were mats get cheaper than product and that would force people to craft again to study or sell.

      What we need is education.
      Not in form of guides and videos because the main problem is that majority of people (especially new ones) don't seek information, until some point. So what we need is to throw information in their face.
      Best way would be in form of tutorial, that ask you to study crafted item and tells you that this is very good way to get more crafting fame and is very good way to progress crafting
      No other solution comes to my mind, because the problem is lack of knowledge of players.

      All this seems rather insignificant but it could change a lot.
      I guess I thought your question was, why do the items not sell much in the lower tiers. Thus I answered accordingly.
      But you're correct in the study part, in fact it's what I do. Place buy orders and study the Items.

      But at the same time one thing you're missing in your equation is time, some people don't want to wait while the buy orders (or even have the money) to study the items. Sometimes I do this if the day is slow and I'll gather/refine/craft/study the items and just turn in the crafting books for some monetary gain. What's funny is the books sell faster than anything I place on the market, even gathering resources.
      That's part of the problem. If you check market then you would see you don't need to place buy orders. You can buy right away items that cost one forth or one third of the mats cost used to produce them. If people knew then nobody would waste their mats for crafting and they would sell them and just buy items to study. This would lead to less demand for mats as I mentioned, and higher demand for items. At the same time less people would produce them so with higher demand price would rise.
    • I stated in my previous post that I understand what you're saying, even do it myself. But some days when things are slow and I just want to relax I do a little gathering and just go through the process. Primarily because I want to level up my refining skills and sometimes I'll craft the weapons and just study them just to level up the skill faster.

      But really the less demand is greatly due to the fact that Albion has somewhat aged now. A lot of people (including myself after a 3 1/2 year hiatus) are able to max build(s) quickly and farm fame for other builds without the need to start over with a low tier build. I do it myself. I rarely buy a lower tier item because of it and when I do since i can gain 2-4k fame per kill I out level the low-mid tiers quickly.
    • Labours was a mistake.

      When i used to do labours, and i didn't do a lot, only 15 in 2 cities, I got a bunch of resources, each day, for "free"

      Now imagine people doing this with 100, 200, 300 labours.

      This and people legit having multiple alts for refining and multiple alts for differente items to craft while spam crafting, is why the market is what it is now, it's a shame.

      Honestly think they should remove labours from the game, or change how they work.
    • Alysandra wrote:

      Labours was a mistake.

      When i used to do labours, and i didn't do a lot, only 15 in 2 cities, I got a bunch of resources, each day, for "free"

      Now imagine people doing this with 100, 200, 300 labours.

      This and people legit having multiple alts for refining and multiple alts for differente items to craft while spam crafting, is why the market is what it is now, it's a shame.

      Honestly think they should remove labours from the game, or change how they work.
      Eh...
      How do I explain this: You havev to fill books EVERYTIME you craft. This is not an "optional step". Labourer mechanics are what makes crafting profiteable in the first place.
      The market adjusted itself to rely on Labourers + Focus crafting to make profit, so, if you remove one of those parts from the equation, the market values would just adjust at the new reality, making everything look exactly the same por crafters: variable margins around 6-20%.

      When people understands that "if you gathered it yourself, IS NOT FREE" "If you refined it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If you crafted it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If you farmed it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If your labourer brought if back, IS NOT FREE", maybe market will stop having such weird anomalities. Why I say "Is not free" so much? 2 things: 1. Oportunity Cost: Every item you have in your hands that can be sold has a COST, that if you sell it, can earn, or you can use it and hopefully get it be worth more. Focus applies to oportunity cost too: Is a limited resource that has POTENTIAL VALUE. 2: Time cost: I don't know about you guys (not answering the quote here, more of a generality) but, if you spend hours gathering to say something is free, or hours giving away journals/planting seeds/transporting resources, repeat with me "Is NOT free", since a. You spent your own time, and b. Your time has potential value too, since instead of gatherting T4 for 1 hour for 300k profit maybe you could have farmed essence for 600k an hour.

      So, TLDR: "IS NOT FREE"
    • Gabumon wrote:

      Alysandra wrote:

      Labours was a mistake.

      When i used to do labours, and i didn't do a lot, only 15 in 2 cities, I got a bunch of resources, each day, for "free"

      Now imagine people doing this with 100, 200, 300 labours.

      This and people legit having multiple alts for refining and multiple alts for differente items to craft while spam crafting, is why the market is what it is now, it's a shame.

      Honestly think they should remove labours from the game, or change how they work.
      Eh...How do I explain this: You havev to fill books EVERYTIME you craft. This is not an "optional step". Labourer mechanics are what makes crafting profiteable in the first place.
      The market adjusted itself to rely on Labourers + Focus crafting to make profit, so, if you remove one of those parts from the equation, the market values would just adjust at the new reality, making everything look exactly the same por crafters: variable margins around 6-20%.

      When people understands that "if you gathered it yourself, IS NOT FREE" "If you refined it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If you crafted it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If you farmed it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If your labourer brought if back, IS NOT FREE", maybe market will stop having such weird anomalities. Why I say "Is not free" so much? 2 things: 1. Oportunity Cost: Every item you have in your hands that can be sold has a COST, that if you sell it, can earn, or you can use it and hopefully get it be worth more. Focus applies to oportunity cost too: Is a limited resource that has POTENTIAL VALUE. 2: Time cost: I don't know about you guys (not answering the quote here, more of a generality) but, if you spend hours gathering to say something is free, or hours giving away journals/planting seeds/transporting resources, repeat with me "Is NOT free", since a. You spent your own time, and b. Your time has potential value too, since instead of gatherting T4 for 1 hour for 300k profit maybe you could have farmed essence for 600k an hour.

      So, TLDR: "IS NOT FREE"
      You can legit buy books - give to labours and make profit. Labours was a mistake.
    • Alysandra wrote:

      Gabumon wrote:

      Alysandra wrote:

      Labours was a mistake.

      When i used to do labours, and i didn't do a lot, only 15 in 2 cities, I got a bunch of resources, each day, for "free"

      Now imagine people doing this with 100, 200, 300 labours.

      This and people legit having multiple alts for refining and multiple alts for differente items to craft while spam crafting, is why the market is what it is now, it's a shame.

      Honestly think they should remove labours from the game, or change how they work.
      Eh...How do I explain this: You havev to fill books EVERYTIME you craft. This is not an "optional step". Labourer mechanics are what makes crafting profiteable in the first place.The market adjusted itself to rely on Labourers + Focus crafting to make profit, so, if you remove one of those parts from the equation, the market values would just adjust at the new reality, making everything look exactly the same por crafters: variable margins around 6-20%.

      When people understands that "if you gathered it yourself, IS NOT FREE" "If you refined it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If you crafted it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If you farmed it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If your labourer brought if back, IS NOT FREE", maybe market will stop having such weird anomalities. Why I say "Is not free" so much? 2 things: 1. Oportunity Cost: Every item you have in your hands that can be sold has a COST, that if you sell it, can earn, or you can use it and hopefully get it be worth more. Focus applies to oportunity cost too: Is a limited resource that has POTENTIAL VALUE. 2: Time cost: I don't know about you guys (not answering the quote here, more of a generality) but, if you spend hours gathering to say something is free, or hours giving away journals/planting seeds/transporting resources, repeat with me "Is NOT free", since a. You spent your own time, and b. Your time has potential value too, since instead of gatherting T4 for 1 hour for 300k profit maybe you could have farmed essence for 600k an hour.

      So, TLDR: "IS NOT FREE"
      You can legit buy books - give to labours and make profit. Labours was a mistake.
      You know why you can do that? Because to setup the labourers you need to spend silver, and then to use them you need to spend TIME.
      Is a great system wich makes the economy be way more vivid than plain crafting.
    • Crafting aint doing so hot these days. Im going to outline a few things everyone here should keep in mind.

      Crafting is straight up not profitable without premium and journals.

      15% profit margin on "tier 7 equivalent or better items" is pretty bad actually. Premium lasts 30 days, at the price as of the time of this post, premium costs 8.4 mil roughly, that's 280k roughly per day in expenses just from premium. Filling the journals you need isent free either. So the amount of money you need clear every day has to be greater than 280k + the cost of filling journals + the value of the materials you put into it in order break a profit. Is this doable? Sure, but you dont make much at all. Also keep in mind that journal prices are extremely expensive relative to the ROI (return on investment), and this also says nothing to the time you are putting into doing this which isent insignificant. It's a lot of hoops and a lot of expenses, with a very low margin for profit.

      Crafting used to be able to make decent money selling high end items to HCE people but thats kinda dead, and lets face it, 8.3 is only 50 ip more than 8.2 to begin with so, paying double for an 8.3 over somthing like an 8.2 out doesn't make much sense from a pvp perspective.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Gnomead ().

    • Gabumon wrote:

      Alysandra wrote:

      Gabumon wrote:

      Alysandra wrote:

      Labours was a mistake.

      When i used to do labours, and i didn't do a lot, only 15 in 2 cities, I got a bunch of resources, each day, for "free"

      Now imagine people doing this with 100, 200, 300 labours.

      This and people legit having multiple alts for refining and multiple alts for differente items to craft while spam crafting, is why the market is what it is now, it's a shame.

      Honestly think they should remove labours from the game, or change how they work.
      Eh...How do I explain this: You havev to fill books EVERYTIME you craft. This is not an "optional step". Labourer mechanics are what makes crafting profiteable in the first place.The market adjusted itself to rely on Labourers + Focus crafting to make profit, so, if you remove one of those parts from the equation, the market values would just adjust at the new reality, making everything look exactly the same por crafters: variable margins around 6-20%.
      When people understands that "if you gathered it yourself, IS NOT FREE" "If you refined it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If you crafted it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If you farmed it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If your labourer brought if back, IS NOT FREE", maybe market will stop having such weird anomalities. Why I say "Is not free" so much? 2 things: 1. Oportunity Cost: Every item you have in your hands that can be sold has a COST, that if you sell it, can earn, or you can use it and hopefully get it be worth more. Focus applies to oportunity cost too: Is a limited resource that has POTENTIAL VALUE. 2: Time cost: I don't know about you guys (not answering the quote here, more of a generality) but, if you spend hours gathering to say something is free, or hours giving away journals/planting seeds/transporting resources, repeat with me "Is NOT free", since a. You spent your own time, and b. Your time has potential value too, since instead of gatherting T4 for 1 hour for 300k profit maybe you could have farmed essence for 600k an hour.

      So, TLDR: "IS NOT FREE"
      You can legit buy books - give to labours and make profit. Labours was a mistake.
      You know why you can do that? Because to setup the labourers you need to spend silver, and then to use them you need to spend TIME.Is a great system wich makes the economy be way more vivid than plain crafting.
      Oh WOW! You have to spend time?! Man, when I'm out gathering, time just freeze!

      It's not a great system, people that have funds, either from swiping or from playing a while can easly setup a empire of labours that give them great return.

      Further on that, sure it takes time, but so does EVERY OTHER ACTION IN THE GAME, and labours are 100% Easy safe non-gankable with return of investment.

      It shouldn't be better to have labours then it is to gather simple.
    • Alysandra wrote:

      Gabumon wrote:

      Alysandra wrote:

      Gabumon wrote:

      Alysandra wrote:

      Labours was a mistake.

      When i used to do labours, and i didn't do a lot, only 15 in 2 cities, I got a bunch of resources, each day, for "free"

      Now imagine people doing this with 100, 200, 300 labours.

      This and people legit having multiple alts for refining and multiple alts for differente items to craft while spam crafting, is why the market is what it is now, it's a shame.

      Honestly think they should remove labours from the game, or change how they work.
      Eh...How do I explain this: You havev to fill books EVERYTIME you craft. This is not an "optional step". Labourer mechanics are what makes crafting profiteable in the first place.The market adjusted itself to rely on Labourers + Focus crafting to make profit, so, if you remove one of those parts from the equation, the market values would just adjust at the new reality, making everything look exactly the same por crafters: variable margins around 6-20%.When people understands that "if you gathered it yourself, IS NOT FREE" "If you refined it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If you crafted it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If you farmed it yourself, IS NOT FREE", "If your labourer brought if back, IS NOT FREE", maybe market will stop having such weird anomalities. Why I say "Is not free" so much? 2 things: 1. Oportunity Cost: Every item you have in your hands that can be sold has a COST, that if you sell it, can earn, or you can use it and hopefully get it be worth more. Focus applies to oportunity cost too: Is a limited resource that has POTENTIAL VALUE. 2: Time cost: I don't know about you guys (not answering the quote here, more of a generality) but, if you spend hours gathering to say something is free, or hours giving away journals/planting seeds/transporting resources, repeat with me "Is NOT free", since a. You spent your own time, and b. Your time has potential value too, since instead of gatherting T4 for 1 hour for 300k profit maybe you could have farmed essence for 600k an hour.

      So, TLDR: "IS NOT FREE"
      You can legit buy books - give to labours and make profit. Labours was a mistake.
      You know why you can do that? Because to setup the labourers you need to spend silver, and then to use them you need to spend TIME.Is a great system wich makes the economy be way more vivid than plain crafting.
      Oh WOW! You have to spend time?! Man, when I'm out gathering, time just freeze!
      It's not a great system, people that have funds, either from swiping or from playing a while can easly setup a empire of labours that give them great return.

      Further on that, sure it takes time, but so does EVERY OTHER ACTION IN THE GAME, and labours are 100% Easy safe non-gankable with return of investment.

      It shouldn't be better to have labours then it is to gather simple.
      Why? :)
      I enjoy labourers, you enjoy gathering. You spend your time gathering, I enjoy my money in laborers.
    • if gatherors just stop gathering for 1 week you would see the prices of items skyrocket due to demand and the black market

      if you think about it the reason why prices are low is because there are people who enjoy the safe yellow and blue zone gathering which from many videos and testing by youtubers and my self can assure you that it provides a quite decent chunk of silver
      of roughly 1 mil to 1.5 mil silver hour with a t8 gathering gear with T8 ava tools (since you cannot lose gear here why not use the best gear?)

      also i heard from some fisherman semi afk fishing in carleon which is a t7 zone they get on average 1-2 mil

      some people can just relax and watch videos while roaming and gathering t4 and T5 stuff by just left clicking except hide cause you need to fight mobs

      of course in blackzone and some super lucky road of avalons the profit margin with current sell rate is higher profits
      i make 2-3 mil every hour with a whole T5 Hide zone all to my self in my lv 100 T5 skinning in t8 gathering gear and ava tools
      and this does not include some lucky cub drops from time to time

      and while i agree that laborers are a part of the problem as it has become a must have in any profit calculation but here is the thing
      laborers needs a large initial investment which not everyone can afford.
      just setting up T5 houses on a full upgraded island cost 10 mil then the laborers them selves and the furniture costs another 8 mil. this is enough silver to buy premium twice over
      then comes the profits. a t5 house can only give 150% happiness to t4 jobs. any higher tier jobs need a house that is one tier higher to get 150%
      by doing a t4 job you roughly get a profit of 9k per house.
      profit is much higher for higher tier jobs but you must take into account that t6/7/8 blocks are not cheap. it takes another 10 mil to get all your houses from t5 to t6
      so you need to do this laborer job for like 3-4 months to break even before you even see a lick of profit

      then there is the matter of supply and demand. there are times where there is not enough filled journals to go around so the price increases decreasing your profits
      then there is also the fact that laborers need time to do a journal so theoretically the consuming rate of journals cannot keep up with filling rate
      Check out My new Albion Online Expansion idea 4 thread:
      https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/143592-Albion-Online-Expansion-Idea-4/

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().