When you can't buff or debuff a weapon because it becomes useless/overpowered ..

    • Owlsane wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      or that it is properly balanced?
      I think he meant for the situation when there is no middle ground
      I mean I don't think there really is such a situation in the current state of the game. some weapons might be really niche though. like stop trying to use claws in 10man hg you know. doesn't make sense. Usually lots of people have issues understanding that some weapons can't be viable for xyz content but only for w content.
      And especially making a post like this without more information about what he has in mind is asking for troll and is a troll in itself. (aka invalid feedback since there is no content in the feedback and isn't enough to think and try to see to maybe solve the player's "issue" on it and see if it actually needs a change.
    • Deathskills wrote:

      Owlsane wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      or that it is properly balanced?
      I think he meant for the situation when there is no middle ground
      I mean I don't think there really is such a situation in the current state of the game. some weapons might be really niche though. like stop trying to use claws in 10man hg you know. doesn't make sense. Usually lots of people have issues understanding that some weapons can't be viable for xyz content but only for w content. And especially making a post like this without more information about what he has in mind is asking for troll and is a troll in itself. (aka invalid feedback since there is no content in the feedback and isn't enough to think and try to see to maybe solve the player's "issue" on it and see if it actually needs a change.
      It applies for many weapons right now, some I already listed on other topics, some other, people are already complaining for a long time yet no changes are made, instead our devs are nerfing weapons with a really weird criteria and forgeting to see across the board how this affects those same weapons in every other game mode.

      This is not a post dedicated to list this weapons, it's just a reminder for devs because I'm sick of watching how they just tweak random numbers hoping to fix the problem and instead they ruin the gameplay experience for those weapon users which main weapons have been nerf to the ground, or the ones who have to fight weapons who have been buffed into oblivion making them completely overpowered.
    • Not because people are complaining that a weapon is unbalanced. Just means they probably made a mistake using it and died because of it. a lot of players cannot accept the fact that they are really bad in pvp or at using some weapons. So instead of being yeah I can't use this, let's blame it on the devs.

      Currently I think most weapons are in a really decent spot. really few weapons are not used in any type of gameplay so not because a weapon is niche that it is bad.

      Like the less use weapon I can name that comes to my mind is the ava sword and I guess the rest is kinda used somewhere, even if it is just for troll ganking or yz trolling, still use so.

      So I legit have no clue what the fuck you are talking about here since you are being purposely vague.

      Doing these type of post vague like this doesn't bring any to the discussion table. Giving an example+ a potential fix is bringing something to the table.
      Complaining about XYZ weapon being bad without explaining why you feel like it (and just always dying before getting your combo out in your build probably isn't a valid answer since this points out a user problem not a weapon problem).

      So please enlighten all of us or just don't do those post that makes you look like you are just bout to troll and have nothing to say and just want to complain.
    • New

      Deathskills wrote:

      Not because people are complaining that a weapon is unbalanced. Just means they probably made a mistake using it and died because of it. a lot of players cannot accept the fact that they are really bad in pvp or at using some weapons. So instead of being yeah I can't use this, let's blame it on the devs.

      Currently I think most weapons are in a really decent spot. really few weapons are not used in any type of gameplay so not because a weapon is niche that it is bad.

      Like the less use weapon I can name that comes to my mind is the ava sword and I guess the rest is kinda used somewhere, even if it is just for troll ganking or yz trolling, still use so.

      So I legit have no clue what the fuck you are talking about here since you are being purposely vague.

      Doing these type of post vague like this doesn't bring any to the discussion table. Giving an example+ a potential fix is bringing something to the table.
      Complaining about XYZ weapon being bad without explaining why you feel like it (and just always dying before getting your combo out in your build probably isn't a valid answer since this points out a user problem not a weapon problem).

      So please enlighten all of us or just don't do those post that makes you look like you are just bout to troll and have nothing to say and just want to complain.
      Really? most weapons?
      Thats why we only see the same 3 comps in 2v2/5v5 since the rework? The same 5 weapons in CD spammed over and over again, specially dagger pairs, quarterstaves and the classic braindead xbows? It gets even worst when we take a look at crystals.

      You consider weapon trees like arcane staves are in a good spot too? Just because 1 is used in zvz (locus) another 1 is used to pull mobs in avalonian dungeons, and there is one more you could bring to give a shield just for the last boss. But ofcourse you can troll and gank with 1h arcane so the weapon tree is fine.

      Or maybe frost, which has 2 corrupted dungeon weapons (1 is getting nerfed soon) and 1 gvg/zvz (permafrost) and 1 strictly for zvz.

      How about swords in general? Clarent for zvz, broadsword for CD, galatines if you want to make a YT clip, and thats it, you rarely see a claymore anymore in CD, or a carved sword unless it's equart trolling on open world, hunting pvers and noobs.

      Every single weapon tree has at least 2 weapons unavailable or outshined by others in the same tree, most competetive content out there is being dominated by the same weapons.

      corrupted - quarterstaves, 1h frost, 1h xbow/boltcasters, tombhammer
      2v2 - dagger pairs+life touch, 1h dagger+equilibrium
      5v5 - long hammer, halbred, regular bow/1h xbow, hallowfall/redemption, great cursed/shadowcaller

      You clearly are lacking competitive gameplay, otherwise you should instantly think about some weapons when reading the title of my post. Every weapon seems good when you are ganking solo players with a party behind, or you just take it out to troll in open world, that doesn't mean that weapon is actually competitive neither at least good.

      Dagger pair is a perfect example of what i mean, by nerfing several items, and later buffing just a bit the cast speed on dagger pairs, they made them meta, why? Insanely high burst damage, with a safe combo, avoid combat, get 3 charges, go in W -> E, invis/boots, repeat.
      What would happen if they just nerf them again? People will stop playing them completely, and thats the reason why they should be reworked.

      Boltcasters are another good example, what is wrong with them? Insanely high damage, and range, stepping out from the range doesn't interrupt the skill, yet what do they nerf? The silence W, why? Because if they tone down damage or range, people will just drop the weapon completely, it won't do the job anymore, so boltcaster players would just move on, they don't care about challenge, fun or whatever, they care only about profit and efficiency. A weapon like this should be reworked.

      Tombhammer, another one, the problem was the insane amount of cc it could stack on you, add a demon cape and you got a high dps, control weapon, yet what did they nerf? Range. Why? Because if they nerf the cc aspect, or demon cape again, they would become unusable, deserves a rework.

      Quarterstaff, what was wrong? Low CD, long CC skills, and demon cape, what do they nerf? The E in order so you can't use it to reset fights anymore, will it work? No, unless you use bearpaws/1h frost (will be nerfed soon anyway) which are the only weapon that's able to catch them, why? Windwall+boots, or E aimed towards traps, or mobs. Yet they leave the real problem untouched because if they fix that problem the weapon is completely gone, yet they will tweak whatever crap they can so we think "oh they are working on it" but what they actually doing is avoiding the needed rework, because it's easier to tweak numbers than to actually create or design new interesting playstyles or mechanics.

      And I could go on, but I honestly don't care anymore about this game, or it's future, I've pictured myself playing albion for years, but this dude retroman just made me want to almost quit the game several times already. So now i'm just playing casually while waiting for other games to be released.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Clasics ().

    • New

      Clasics wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Not because people are complaining that a weapon is unbalanced. Just means they probably made a mistake using it and died because of it. a lot of players cannot accept the fact that they are really bad in pvp or at using some weapons. So instead of being yeah I can't use this, let's blame it on the devs.

      Currently I think most weapons are in a really decent spot. really few weapons are not used in any type of gameplay so not because a weapon is niche that it is bad.

      Like the less use weapon I can name that comes to my mind is the ava sword and I guess the rest is kinda used somewhere, even if it is just for troll ganking or yz trolling, still use so.

      So I legit have no clue what the fuck you are talking about here since you are being purposely vague.

      Doing these type of post vague like this doesn't bring any to the discussion table. Giving an example+ a potential fix is bringing something to the table.
      Complaining about XYZ weapon being bad without explaining why you feel like it (and just always dying before getting your combo out in your build probably isn't a valid answer since this points out a user problem not a weapon problem).

      So please enlighten all of us or just don't do those post that makes you look like you are just bout to troll and have nothing to say and just want to complain.
      Really? most weapons?Thats why we only see the same 3 comps in 2v2/5v5 since the rework? The same 5 weapons in CD spammed over and over again, specially dagger pairs, quarterstaves and the classic braindead xbows? It gets even worst when we take a look at crystals.

      You consider weapon trees like arcane staves are in a good spot too? Just because 1 is used in zvz (locus) another 1 is used to pull mobs in avalonian dungeons, and there is one more you could bring to give a shield just for the last boss. But ofcourse you can troll and gank with 1h arcane so the weapon tree is fine.

      Or maybe frost, which has 2 corrupted dungeon weapons (1 is getting nerfed soon) and 1 gvg/zvz (permafrost) and 1 strictly for zvz.

      How about swords in general? Clarent for zvz, broadsword for CD, galatines if you want to make a YT clip, and thats it, you rarely see a claymore anymore in CD, or a carved sword unless it's equart trolling on open world, hunting pvers and noobs.

      Every single weapon tree has at least 2 weapons unavailable or outshined by others in the same tree, most competetive content out there is being dominated by the same weapons.

      corrupted - quarterstaves, 1h frost, 1h xbow/boltcasters, tombhammer
      2v2 - dagger pairs+life touch, 1h dagger+equilibrium
      5v5 - long hammer, halbred, regular bow/1h xbow, hallowfall/redemption, great cursed/shadowcaller

      You clearly are lacking competitive gameplay, otherwise you should instantly think about some weapons when reading the title of my post. Every weapon seems good when you are ganking solo players with a party behind, or you just take it out to troll in open world, that doesn't mean that weapon is actually competitive neither at least good.

      Dagger pair is a perfect example of what i mean, by nerfing several items, and later buffing just a bit the cast speed on dagger pairs, they made them meta, why? Insanely high burst damage, with a safe combo, avoid combat, get 3 charges, go in W -> E, invis/boots, repeat.
      What would happen if they just nerf them again? People will stop playing them completely, and thats the reason why they should be reworked.

      Boltcasters are another good example, what is wrong with them? Insanely high damage, and range, stepping out from the range doesn't interrupt the skill, yet what do they nerf? The silence W, why? Because if they tone down damage or range, people will just drop the weapon completely, it won't do the job anymore, so boltcaster players would just move on, they don't care about challenge, fun or whatever, they care only about profit and efficiency. A weapon like this should be reworked.

      Tombhammer, another one, the problem was the insane amount of cc it could stack on you, add a demon cape and you got a high dps, control weapon, yet what did they nerf? Range. Why? Because if they nerf the cc aspect, or demon cape again, they would become unusable, deserves a rework.

      Quarterstaff, what was wrong? Low CD, long CC skills, and demon cape, what do they nerf? The E in order so you can't use it to reset fights anymore, will it work? No, unless you use bearpaws/1h frost (will be nerfed soon anyway) which are the only weapon that's able to catch them, why? Windwall+boots, or E aimed towards traps, or mobs. Yet they leave the real problem untouched because if they fix that problem the weapon is completely gone, yet they will tweak whatever crap they can so we think "oh they are working on it" but what they actually doing is avoiding the needed rework, because it's easier to tweak numbers than to actually create or design new interesting playstyles or mechanics.

      And I could go on, but I honestly don't care anymore about this game, or it's future, I've pictured myself playing albion for years, but this dude retroman just made me want to almost quit the game several times already. So now i'm just playing casually while waiting for other games to be released.
      I am not sure if u conclusion is right, or Retro potentially knows the answer as we all do but is just forced to maximize profit and just do some number tweaks instead of rework it..
    • New

      Deathskills wrote:

      or that it is properly balanced?
      nah op is right, it is possible to fall into these holes when designing game mechanics. For example lets say a very weak stealth character could potentially survive and reset indefinitely while being chased by their opponent, both unable to kill eachother. If you buff the stealth character he becomes able to both survive forever and is able to kill his opponent. if you nerf his stealth, he is no longer able to survive. Whats required is to take some away, give some back in multiple areas which is usually a rework.
    • New

      Clasics wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Not because people are complaining that a weapon is unbalanced. Just means they probably made a mistake using it and died because of it. a lot of players cannot accept the fact that they are really bad in pvp or at using some weapons. So instead of being yeah I can't use this, let's blame it on the devs.

      Currently I think most weapons are in a really decent spot. really few weapons are not used in any type of gameplay so not because a weapon is niche that it is bad.

      Like the less use weapon I can name that comes to my mind is the ava sword and I guess the rest is kinda used somewhere, even if it is just for troll ganking or yz trolling, still use so.

      So I legit have no clue what the fuck you are talking about here since you are being purposely vague.

      Doing these type of post vague like this doesn't bring any to the discussion table. Giving an example+ a potential fix is bringing something to the table.
      Complaining about XYZ weapon being bad without explaining why you feel like it (and just always dying before getting your combo out in your build probably isn't a valid answer since this points out a user problem not a weapon problem).

      So please enlighten all of us or just don't do those post that makes you look like you are just bout to troll and have nothing to say and just want to complain.
      Really? most weapons?Thats why we only see the same 3 comps in 2v2/5v5 since the rework? The same 5 weapons in CD spammed over and over again, specially dagger pairs, quarterstaves and the classic braindead xbows? It gets even worst when we take a look at crystals.

      You consider weapon trees like arcane staves are in a good spot too? Just because 1 is used in zvz (locus) another 1 is used to pull mobs in avalonian dungeons, and there is one more you could bring to give a shield just for the last boss. But ofcourse you can troll and gank with 1h arcane so the weapon tree is fine.

      Or maybe frost, which has 2 corrupted dungeon weapons (1 is getting nerfed soon) and 1 gvg/zvz (permafrost) and 1 strictly for zvz.

      How about swords in general? Clarent for zvz, broadsword for CD, galatines if you want to make a YT clip, and thats it, you rarely see a claymore anymore in CD, or a carved sword unless it's equart trolling on open world, hunting pvers and noobs.

      Every single weapon tree has at least 2 weapons unavailable or outshined by others in the same tree, most competetive content out there is being dominated by the same weapons.

      corrupted - quarterstaves, 1h frost, 1h xbow/boltcasters, tombhammer
      2v2 - dagger pairs+life touch, 1h dagger+equilibrium
      5v5 - long hammer, halbred, regular bow/1h xbow, hallowfall/redemption, great cursed/shadowcaller

      You clearly are lacking competitive gameplay, otherwise you should instantly think about some weapons when reading the title of my post. Every weapon seems good when you are ganking solo players with a party behind, or you just take it out to troll in open world, that doesn't mean that weapon is actually competitive neither at least good.

      Dagger pair is a perfect example of what i mean, by nerfing several items, and later buffing just a bit the cast speed on dagger pairs, they made them meta, why? Insanely high burst damage, with a safe combo, avoid combat, get 3 charges, go in W -> E, invis/boots, repeat.
      What would happen if they just nerf them again? People will stop playing them completely, and thats the reason why they should be reworked.

      Boltcasters are another good example, what is wrong with them? Insanely high damage, and range, stepping out from the range doesn't interrupt the skill, yet what do they nerf? The silence W, why? Because if they tone down damage or range, people will just drop the weapon completely, it won't do the job anymore, so boltcaster players would just move on, they don't care about challenge, fun or whatever, they care only about profit and efficiency. A weapon like this should be reworked.

      Tombhammer, another one, the problem was the insane amount of cc it could stack on you, add a demon cape and you got a high dps, control weapon, yet what did they nerf? Range. Why? Because if they nerf the cc aspect, or demon cape again, they would become unusable, deserves a rework.

      Quarterstaff, what was wrong? Low CD, long CC skills, and demon cape, what do they nerf? The E in order so you can't use it to reset fights anymore, will it work? No, unless you use bearpaws/1h frost (will be nerfed soon anyway) which are the only weapon that's able to catch them, why? Windwall+boots, or E aimed towards traps, or mobs. Yet they leave the real problem untouched because if they fix that problem the weapon is completely gone, yet they will tweak whatever crap they can so we think "oh they are working on it" but what they actually doing is avoiding the needed rework, because it's easier to tweak numbers than to actually create or design new interesting playstyles or mechanics.

      And I could go on, but I honestly don't care anymore about this game, or it's future, I've pictured myself playing albion for years, but this dude retroman just made me want to almost quit the game several times already. So now i'm just playing casually while waiting for other games to be released.

      I love this take and I agree 100%. The issue is that it was "supposed" to be that way and it's a mistake in how weapons are designed. For example, weapons needing an artifact to be created are basically more expensive, and they are probably designed to be better in some way to counter balance their price. But now, everyone has money, and the fact that only 3 to 4 weapons are viable in each tree is really sad because we legit can't play 50% of the weapons just because they are bad. Just to be clear, a weapon designed to ZvZ is a good weapon, I don't mind, but it is true that only 10 weapons are god like at a time and every other weapon feels lackluster compared to them.

      As a 2v2 player, Lifetouch and Daggers pair are my main example. Lifetouch are absolutely broken in 2v2, but bad anywhere else. Still, how come that an entire content revolves around one weapon ? Currently, there are two types of comps in 2v2. Lifetouch + DPS (most of the time daggers as Clasics said) and One shot combo designed to go through healings + lifetouch cleanse + resist pot. Basically, when you want to 2v2, you have to think that there will be a healer that can put up to 1000 shield, gives a lot of extra resistance and cleanse someone before going. This needs to be reworked, no weapon should define the meta this much, and it's only because of poor E design that makes cc comps unplayable (hence why people are playing anti healing comps instead). And I can hear that healers are complaining right now because they don't heal as much as they used to, but keep in mind that if it wasn't for Lifetouch E, Healing sickness and every nerf involving priests wouldn't go through. The only reason why the overall healing of Lifetouch is being nerfed is because you can't cc Lifetouch.

      I stopped playing Corrupted for almost the same reason. Why would you play when all you can face are 8.1 to 8.3 builds with the same 5 weapons over and over again. Weapons that kite too well while being able to deal big damage with a CC and then kite again.

      Something else I wanted to point out is the power of healers in 1v1. They are not that meta rn (even though I think that the main reason we don't see a majority of Hallowfalls in CD rn is because of the ridiculous price of that weapon) but when they used to be metan, how ? Priests using healing Q, healing W and healing E killing dps / Tank builds ? This is not supposed to work that way. Healers heal way too much in this game because there is no cap on how much you can heal. Basically when a Hallowfall is in CD dungeons, it heals enough to heal a party of 5 or more because it was designed to do so. How can this be fair in 1v1 ? You couple that with 1 empowered auto attack with cape + Mage cowl and you slowly die to a healing machine, you can only kill if you cc all the way.

      There is a lot of poor design in this game tbh and imo it is because it is not meant to be played as 1 or 2 but rather as 5. As 5, even though there is a strong meta as Clasics said (in Cgvg or 5v5 hg), it honestly feels less frustrating.