Black hands

    • Did they fix it so you can't just pop a movement skill and out distance blackhand's E anymore? It was bugging out half the time someone used it also for a while. Are these both fixed? It can definitely be an annoying weapon to deal with though depending on what you're running.
    • There is like a ton of way to counter them but ok they are a bit annoying especially in 1vs1.

      Here is some little advices to fuck those braindeads BH users.


      Know your enemy first :

      The E of BH work like this :
      1st hit : ~66.7% damage / purge
      2nd hit ~33.3% damage / knockback

      BH users almost always use assassin hood and hellion boots with a cleric robe or sometimes a assassin jacket.

      The combo with BH is :
      3 Q-Stacks -> Boots -> E -> Robe -> Hood -> Repeat...

      The best way and a simple way to fuck them is to break the combo. Easily you can watch out for the cleric robe and stop fighting so cleric robe buff doesnt work. With a reflect (Parry strike is the best for this shit) you can reflect him the first hit giving him real good damage and protect you from more than half the total E damage. With knight boots or giant potion you can protect from E because it's not purgeable. With a well timed dash you can dodge him when he come with his hellion boots (when he use the boots and go invisible just count the sec in your head and dash and the end. And with good DoT (Bow's 3rd Q is awesome for this) and good mouvement you can make some damage and get away from him while invisible, bring them to mobs or traps...

      I let them come first I use Hunter hood if I have I try to make as much damage as possible (full DoT if I have) then I use Parry Strike when he use his boots and use E. At this point generaly he is like more than 1/3 of HP and I am like a lo more than 1/2 of my total HP. He will go for cleric robe (stop your DoT before this, stop them when he use his boots) and go after for assassin hood. Don't make his cleric robe buff work and If you can interrupt him while he is using his hood. After this chase him and put all your DPS and he will die.

      BH are not a big deal especially for ranged weapons and even for melee.
    • Still doesnt make sence for non skillshot thing to do that u know like i was trying out cursed skull earlier with desecrate and second Q . And that makes 3 skillshots and guess what i deal half of his HP in the whole fight in the mean time he is using 1h crossbow with auto lock Q . He deals 3x my damage with a sigle ability and then uses his E whitch deals 500 damage witch is non skill shot as well ?> like what is this shit all the braindead weapons deal the most damage in the game? What kind of logic is that
      -
    • You guys don’t have to agree with me, but the problem with Black Hands is not necessarily that it can kill anything (it is not), the problem with it, just like Bear Paws (recently) and Hallowfall (for quite a long time) is that they allow for making plenty of mistakes, and you can still win without sweating. In the meanwhile, their opponents play perfectly, and excellent counterplays, but they still lose. That’s the most annoying part, and the one that makes the build broken, imo. Black Hands definitely need some tweaks. I would vote for a rework.
      Staff of Balance is not dead! Royal March was* :)
    • She0gorath wrote:

      You guys don’t have to agree with me, but the problem with Black Hands is not necessarily that it can kill anything (it is not), the problem with it, just like Bear Paws (recently) and Hallowfall (for quite a long time) is that they allow for making plenty of mistakes, and you can still win without sweating. In the meanwhile, their opponents play perfectly, and excellent counterplays, but they still lose. That’s the most annoying part, and the one that makes the build broken, imo. Black Hands definitely need some tweaks. I would vote for a rework.
      I dunno...it does do a lot of stuff. I feel like weapon E's shouldn't do more than 2x (or whichever number is reasonable) things at once...so something could only stun and silence. Instead we have some weapons that can charge, knockback, stun, etc, etc all at once while another weapon can't even do half as much.
      I think black hands aren't as oppressions as people make them out to be and they bug out half the time missing and can also be counter played really easily tbh.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by ViLEuo ().

    • Guys stop being noobs
      If you suffering from BH so hard - just use fort sterling cape
      In combo with the most popular head slot -guardian helmet you’ll just negate all his combo dmg to 100 dmg
      Also works with any mobility/cc skill like spear Charge
      Stop being dumb
    • kheeta wrote:

      Guys stop being noobs
      If you suffering from BH so hard - just use fort sterling cape
      In combo with the most popular head slot -guardian helmet you’ll just negate all his combo dmg to 100 dmg
      Also works with any mobility/cc skill like spear Charge
      Stop being dumb
      So... you need to have 2 specific utility features used in a discrete order to combat just one skill.

      Nobody says that the skill is not counterable, but the only way to do so is limited to a specific combination of utility (Cleanse + Absorbtion).
      You cant use any resistances or damage reduction abilities, excluding absorption skills with purge resistance available on one weapon line and one pair of shoes or potions, because they get purged before they can be of any effect.
      Using zoning skills to simply not let BH reach you via zoning skills is also a possibility, but again, it is only available to a small selection of weapons viable within CD and an even smaller amount of armor.

      Everybody does say that the skill is overloaded with utility to a point where you can press a single button without a second thought and counter almost anything thrown against you.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • I think that one-shot builds are mostly ok today. Yes, it makes a lot of damage and allows to kill in one combo(or two, in case of black hands). But it is an "all-in" build. You are dead if that combo was broken. There is no anything bad in fully focused on one condition builds existence(all for mobility, all for damage, all for CC). Don't think, you will be glad if all the weapons will be the same.

      The only thing that should be fixed in my opinion is a tier dependency. Playing black hands(dagger pair, dead-givers) in CD is low-risk, high-reward gameplay. It's some kind of madness when some kid kills you with 1800+ HP remaining through a guardian helm with two immediate hits(chain + E). And as result - it is no fear when you should risk your T8.N items to get T.4.2 trash.

      Make them use at least T8(or charged T7) to be successful as most of the other classes and it will be OK I think.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BackOFF ().

    • Hattenhair wrote:

      kheeta wrote:

      Guys stop being noobs
      If you suffering from BH so hard - just use fort sterling cape
      In combo with the most popular head slot -guardian helmet you’ll just negate all his combo dmg to 100 dmg
      Also works with any mobility/cc skill like spear Charge
      Stop being dumb
      So... you need to have 2 specific utility features used in a discrete order to combat just one skill.
      Nobody says that the skill is not counterable, but the only way to do so is limited to a specific combination of utility (Cleanse + Absorbtion).
      You cant use any resistances or damage reduction abilities, excluding absorption skills with purge resistance available on one weapon line and one pair of shoes or potions, because they get purged before they can be of any effect.
      Using zoning skills to simply not let BH reach you via zoning skills is also a possibility, but again, it is only available to a small selection of weapons viable within CD and an even smaller amount of armor.

      Everybody does say that the skill is overloaded with utility to a point where you can press a single button without a second thought and counter almost anything thrown against you.
      Two skills?
      Not exactly
      You break the combo with your cape and take advantage to start your own combo

      Examples:
      Spear vs bh
      Cape proc +spear E Charge
      Bh used boots+E - spear used cape+E+braking range to kite= that’s good trade for spear

      Fire vs bh
      Bh boots+E - fire cape+wall + dmg + zoning +time for land dmg

      Bow vs bh
      Bh boots+E - bow cape+frostshot
      Braking bh combo+ gaining range to kite+ free E landing (pure advantage in skill trade off)

      Same with almost every popular CD build
      You don’t just burn 2 skills vs two skills of Bh user you also get advantage to fight
    • kheeta wrote:

      Two skills?Not exactly
      You break the combo with your cape and take advantage to start your own combo

      Examples:
      Spear vs bh
      Cape proc +spear E Charge
      Bh used boots+E - spear used cape+E+braking range to kite= that’s good trade for spear

      Fire vs bh
      Bh boots+E - fire cape+wall + dmg + zoning +time for land dmg

      Bow vs bh
      Bh boots+E - bow cape+frostshot
      Braking bh combo+ gaining range to kite+ free E landing (pure advantage in skill trade off)

      Same with almost every popular CD build
      You don’t just burn 2 skills vs two skills of Bh user you also get advantage to fight
      What about builds that do not have access to leaps or zoning abilities?
      Curse, Sword, Axe?
      And again, if you do not have zoning abilities like firemage or wear a fiend robe, you are required to wear a fort sterling cape or rely on predictive usage of I-frames, which is just laughable for a skill setup that can nearly one-shot you without leaving CC.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      So... you need to have 2 specific utility features used in a discrete order to combat just one skill.

      Nobody says that the skill is not counterable, but the only way to do so is limited to a specific combination of utility (Cleanse + Absorbtion).
      You cant use any resistances or damage reduction abilities, excluding absorption skills with purge resistance available on one weapon line and one pair of shoes or potions, because they get purged before they can be of any effect.

      Hattenhair wrote:

      What about builds that do not have access to leaps or zoning abilities?
      The standard blackhands build (cleric robe, fiend sandals, assassin hood) is very easy to counter for ANY weapon. First off, beyond any mobility/zoning skills, the cleric cowl, cleric robe, and guardian boots all counter it. These can block all, or the majority, of the damage from the E. As BackOff said, the build is completely all in, so countering one E pretty much wins you the fight.

      Okay, but maybe you don't play any of the weapons that have a counter skill, AND you don't want to pick up any of the armors that have a counter skill. You got the build you like, what can you do? It's still easy, always have a gig pot to swap too. Remember you can swap potions without cooldowns, and gigantify can't be purged. Once they jump at you with hellion, you gig, and they are in a lose-lose situation. If they try to wait it out, you get to unload on them for 6 seconds. If they start using their combo, they waste half of it to do sub 50% damage and can't finish you.

      The blackhands build is basically a skill check. With a decent build and basic knowledge, it's a very easy win. Which is why most people lose to it, lol.
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      kheeta wrote:

      Two skills?Not exactly
      You break the combo with your cape and take advantage to start your own combo

      Examples:
      Spear vs bh
      Cape proc +spear E Charge
      Bh used boots+E - spear used cape+E+braking range to kite= that’s good trade for spear

      Fire vs bh
      Bh boots+E - fire cape+wall + dmg + zoning +time for land dmg

      Bow vs bh
      Bh boots+E - bow cape+frostshot
      Braking bh combo+ gaining range to kite+ free E landing (pure advantage in skill trade off)

      Same with almost every popular CD build
      You don’t just burn 2 skills vs two skills of Bh user you also get advantage to fight
      What about builds that do not have access to leaps or zoning abilities?Curse, Sword, Axe?
      And again, if you do not have zoning abilities like firemage or wear a fiend robe, you are required to wear a fort sterling cape or rely on predictive usage of I-frames, which is just laughable for a skill setup that can nearly one-shot you without leaving CC.
      any viable CD sword builds has either cc or mobility witch is quite good in combo with fort cape
      Merc Axe/curse easily wins bh just via resist pot without any hard tactics with capes
    • FriendlyFire wrote:

      The standard blackhands build (cleric robe, fiend sandals, assassin hood) is very easy to counter for ANY weapon. First off, beyond any mobility/zoning skills, the cleric cowl, cleric robe, and guardian boots all counter it. These can block all, or the majority, of the damage from the E. As BackOff said, the build is completely all in, so countering one E pretty much wins you the fight.
      Okay, but maybe you don't play any of the weapons that have a counter skill, AND you don't want to pick up any of the armors that have a counter skill. You got the build you like, what can you do? It's still easy, always have a gig pot to swap too. Remember you can swap potions without cooldowns, and gigantify can't be purged. Once they jump at you with hellion, you gig, and they are in a lose-lose situation. If they try to wait it out, you get to unload on them for 6 seconds. If they start using their combo, they waste half of it to do sub 50% damage and can't finish you.

      The blackhands build is basically a skill check. With a decent build and basic knowledge, it's a very easy win. Which is why most people lose to it, lol.
      Fire wall. I use Fire wall.
      I am mostly concerned than only pre-emptive measures can be taken against BH, if you get hit once, that means you get combo'd to near death most of the time. Since BH E is overloaded with utility, most of your counters come down to unpurgeable absorbtion methods or zoning.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      Since BH E is overloaded with utility, most of your counters come down to unpurgeable absorbtion methods or zoning.
      Yeah it comes down to:
      • Having one of several unpurgeable defensive abilities.
      • Having any zoning/knockback skills. (All cloth cowls, for instance, can counter hellion shoes)
      • Having any invis (cancel and ruin the hellion shoes)
      • Having some type of dash/blink...
      Again, not only should most builds have a counter to it anyway, you can insta-swap to a potion to counter it as well.

      If you want to run a glass cannon build and won't even keep one potion in your inventory just in case, you are gonna lose, and you deserve it.
    • Well, the Problem is the second part of the combo


      Cleric robe, rewind, anovidable damage proc for all dot classes..

      All this ..be my guest..

      But bh + chain are insta and deal around 1600+ damage to cloth in one strike..unshieldable / reflectable..due to the utility of blackhands..

      And even that is okay..compare to other bullshit that exists, too

      But where it starts to get rediculous, and this is valid for BH and BL that the damage has ZERo requirements..stacks..

      Double daggers, highly OP in 2HG needs stacks, and that is somehow balanced..

      But zero stack requirements for BH and BL is, where the balance hits the b***bingo!!!

      Comparable would be if swords need no stacks or pike..just insta boom..
    • I still don't sure, that BH is overpowered anywhere except the possibility to kill high-tier players with T4.2 trash. But I really have one point for developers about it.
      According to a description of a devastating strike - It is a melee attack. Dear developers, do you know, what is "melee"? If you don't - I will explain. IT IS 0!!!(ZERO, NO ANY) meters of range.

      This IS NOT MELEE!:
    • Trial_hard wrote:

      Well, the Problem is the second part of the combo


      Cleric robe, rewind, anovidable damage proc for all dot classes..

      All this ..be my guest..

      But bh + chain are insta and deal around 1600+ damage to cloth in one strike..unshieldable / reflectable..due to the utility of blackhands..

      And even that is okay..compare to other bullshit that exists, too

      But where it starts to get rediculous, and this is valid for BH and BL that the damage has ZERo requirements..stacks..

      Double daggers, highly OP in 2HG needs stacks, and that is somehow balanced..

      But zero stack requirements for BH and BL is, where the balance hits the b***bingo!!!

      Comparable would be if swords need no stacks or pike..just insta boom..
      If you have such problems with bh in your build try to remake it around another cape
      Fort cape+any shield or +any mobility/cc breaks Bh combo to 0dmg
      Res pot breaks the second combo
      Win