Bow its unbeatable vs melee weapons

    • SpicyPepper wrote:

      Bacharel wrote:

      Some people here misunderstood the point of the post, Guys, the video is just to illustrate the bow Q issue, I've only bought the 8.3 gear to make it more overwhelmingly to see

      Here's another example (of thousend I have) of how frustrating and broken the Low Cooldown knockback Q + frostshot W is.

      youtu.be/ibLw-EuPKsU

      And still, CD are completely taken by bows and bear paws, every 5 CD at least 4 are one of those weapons (when I say ''bow'' I mean the whole class including badon, bow, warbow wich are the most common)

      Do you guys think its healthy to have like 10 1v1 weapons in the game most of them be slaughter by a single ability? What will new players think once they reach slayer level and be kited to death a few times and give up? is this what we are waiting?

      I'll repeat the fundamental part of my argument. Being kited to death without counterplay its the most frustrating think can happen in a competitive pvp game!
      "How frustrating and broken the Low Cooldown knockback Q + frostshot W is." -> Like I've said. Multishot does not have low CD, 3s is the median for a Q spell. Multishot has 4s cooldown. As for frost shot, 15s cooldown is standard. Most spells that gives mobility on the W have 15s cooldown, or things to counter it (e.g: Harpoon)
      "And still, CD are completely taken by bows and bear paws, every 5 CD at least 4 are one of those weapons" -> No, this is wrong, CD are not dominated by those 2 classes. Out of the top 10 on the leaderboard, currently, there are: 3 Boltcaster, 2 Frost Staff, 2 Quarterstaff, 1 Bloodletter, 1 Hallowfall, 1 Bear Paws, and no bow.
      As for the middle brackets (people running with tier 8 and 8.1), data from my last 35 matches shows only 4 bearpaws, and 5 bows (2 of which are warbow, 2 regular bow, and 1 badon). 35 matches is a small sample, but it does show that paws and bows don't dominate more than 80% of CD.

      "Do you guys think its healthy to have like 10 1v1 weapons in the game most of them be slaughter by a single ability?" -> This is wrong. Name the weapons you mentioned that get slaughtered by multishot. There's not even that many 1v1 weapons in this game if you exclude Weapon that is not design purely for 1v1 but can 1v1 (e.g bearpaws, bloodletter, frost staff)

      "What will new players think once they reach slayer level and be kited to death a few times and give up?" -> Some of them do, the rest just get better at it and get over the barrier. They start to realize what make sense to do certain task.

      "Being kited to death without counterplay its the most frustrating think can happen in a competitive pvp game!" -> There're shit loads of counter play, so just don't get kited. There're just too many to tell you here on this single post.

      As for your "another example" -> First thing first, the warbow completely out geared you, He used T8 with capes, you used budget T6 set with no cape. Even then you still could have won that. Dude, for god sake, it's even worse than your first vid.
      1. Use freaking healing pot against kiters. First vid you used resist, now you use gig pot.
      2. Why the heck did you engaged from North to South ???? You could've turned 8 o'clock at boss room to change spell then engage from South to North, that route was empty too. He got a free E hit in first time exactly because of this.
      3. Dodge his E, why you just tanked everything ??????? And use your hunter hood on the one that actually hit,
      4. 0:28 You finally caught up to him with you shoes, why the heck did you increase the distance again?? Just to waste shoes ?? Your jacket for show only ?? He goes invi you invi too, the one pop invi first show up first and become vulnerable. You didn't even use your jacket for the entire fight.
      5. 0:36 -> That's not how you harpoon a bow. You harpoon the frostshot, not wasting harpoon just so he can frostshot away and slow you. Best is to harpoon while the bow casting frostshot wasting his entire spell, but if you can't do that, at least harpoon him after he frost shot, not the other way around.
      You would've very likely won this even with 2 tiers lower if
      1. You turned left and went down at boss room to change spell then, engaged from South
      2. You used healing pot instead of gig pot.
      3. Reflect at least 1 Magic Arrow with hunter hood. Let's just put aside the fact that you didn't dodge anything for now.
      4. At 0:28, you waited 2s then went invi after him. He'd show up first and try to get away with frost shot (if not, use your E then run in a circle and keep poking with auto attack until he does), you then harpoon the frostshot and keep auto attacking, count his E and use hunter hood. Save your E (or the 2nd one if you've already use it) and use it when he pop shoes.

      This dude that made the video is doing certain things on purpose to prove his point or he is clearly a horrible player. Not once did he back off even at low hp, Not once did he try to dodge an E skill shot.. the 2nd E was sheer luck he was changing direction. That video fight was played so poortly the bow guy was like LOFL look at this dude walking into everything i fire at him.

      Youtube is not your friend.. Copying youtube builds is not good.. you need to FF your weapon and Start ganking with it or doing low level CD and Get good at it.. You should be able to react instantly to anything your opponent has or uses.. And the decisions should be instant or damn close to it.. If they aren't you are wasting precious time and making mistakes which lets face it in CD's 1 mistake can make you loose the match 1-2 seconds to think can make you loose the match.

      This isn't Archganistan with people in 8.3 wandering around with 1m PVP and 5m PVE fame trying to figure out what to do with their CC transactions.
    • Rainphase wrote:

      I guess Square rooms don't exist in CD or I need to go back to pre-school to learn shapes again or maybe you do.. Stop letting the bow player dictate "WHERE" the fight is gonna happen. Missing skill shot is easy even for advanced players especially if you end up trying to predict where your opponent is going to be.. Running in straight line = simple.. Zig Zagging to create distance so the BOW has to use Mobility Boots to engage you...... Chance of miss goes up a lot.
      Advanced Mechanics.... bro know your skills know your surroundings know your opponents gear and yours.. Figure something out there is no 1 thing in this game that dominates EVERY Variable build 100%... If there was every player on the planet would be playing it.

      Weapon of choice against bows would be anything with a W mobility or Potentially and E or both.. all depends on your play style what armor you are wearing and how experienced you are.. It also matters how desperate the bow guy wants a kill, is he impatient.. will he engage 1st.. will he take the fight on your terms..

      So much goes into a fight and if you can't realize that.. you are nowhere near "PRO Player" and really should not be commenting on Balance
      Yes, yes, now tell me something less obvious that can actually help my build fight a badon.
      Next time you're gonna say to use bloodlust on mobs to heal off poke damage or go break the crystals?

      I never said I was a "PRO player", yet I am still enjoying the game while being frustrated about the 1v1 balance.
      Guess what? Albion was never meant to be balanced for 1v1, but people kept crying about the lack of solo content in a group-focused game.
      My god you are just thought policing your own fucking projections at this point.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • SpicyPepper wrote:

      Hattenhair wrote:

      I already use fiend cowl, sadly firemage does not have enough mobility to reach the 9m cast range against a bow.
      Yep, because fire staves is next to trash tier in CD, only better than bringing a siege xbow to CD.
      Just like how you can't use fire staves to dismount people like claws or double bladed staff do.

      There's no need to stick exactly like meta to be able to put up a fight, but at least bring sth that make some sense for the situation.

      Or just keep playing what you enjoy most, but acknowledge when you fight that you're bringing an inferior weapon in that specific situation, and that you have to play better than your enemy to get the win.
      I'd heavily argue that fire staves are far from trash. It's just that you are supposed to use advanced tactics to win regular fights, while some other meta weapon can basically faceslam the keyboard to get the same result.

      Very good against any melee weapon, can adequately deal with any mid-range weapon and catch up to them via purging the boots or making use of Ignite. Although has severe issues with "no-contact" poke builds, mainly war- and badon- bows and the occastional great curse stave.


      I built my fire to be a heavily defensive brawler, got my first million of infamy with this one.
      Tried many other builds but neither stuck to me, as I came back to the beginning.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      SpicyPepper wrote:

      Yep, because fire staves is next to trash tier in CD, only better than bringing a siege xbow to CD.Just like how you can't use fire staves to dismount people like claws or double bladed staff do.

      There's no need to stick exactly like meta to be able to put up a fight, but at least bring sth that make some sense for the situation.

      Or just keep playing what you enjoy most, but acknowledge when you fight that you're bringing an inferior weapon in that specific situation, and that you have to play better than your enemy to get the win.
      I'd heavily argue that fire staves are far from trash. It's just that you are supposed to use advanced tactics to win regular fights, while some other meta weapon can basically faceslam the keyboard to get the same result.
      Very good against any melee weapon, can adequately deal with any mid-range weapon and catch up to them via purging the boots or making use of Ignite. Although has severe issues with "no-contact" poke builds, mainly war- and badon- bows and the occastional great curse stave.


      I built my fire to be a heavily defensive brawler, got my first million of infamy with this one.
      Tried many other builds but neither stuck to me, as I came back to the beginning.
      It's not trash, it's next to trash. It's a fact :D . You can still win with it, but build wise you'd lose to almost everything else in CD. It's so weak because it has zero mobility while the brawl capability are very easy to counter.

      Unless the enemy mess themselves up somehow before the direct brawl, you can't just save your Fiend Cowl to purge their boots because you'll short a spell during the brawl and lose it. (Your enemy brawl with weapon + chest + helm, while you only brawl with weapon and chest). Just imagine a build with double merc jacket (specter hood), while you only have one (because you need fiend cowl to purge the shoes or you never land the kill). Because of this, you literally catch no one.

      You can indeed put up a fight and kill people in the mid / lower bracket (below 1 mil) because:
      1. There are a lot of player down there don't block ability with many thing, therefore losing brawl that they should've win, letting you saved the entire helmet to chase them.
      2. Misjudge the damage output they can take and stay fighting then die on the way our because of dots (fire artillery)
      Fighting with a fire means that you have infinite reset against a build that not even that strong in a direct 1v1 brawl. And if you win just once, fire can't escape.

      The only things that worse than a fire staff in CD right now are only Arcane, Hammer (which used to be hella broken), and maybe Nature. That makes fire some where 20-25% from the bottom of all weapons.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • Bacharel wrote:

      Its simply a death sentence to face a bow in the current state of Corrupted Dungeons.
      As you can see in the upcoming video. Im 700/700 axe spec with 8.3 excelent gear and Im simply cannot touch the 4.3 bow user

      youtu.be/EtZ-PyV-rzM


      There isnt a single counterplay, its just getting kited and lose your time, money and sanity. Completely unbeatable. They have 2 kiting mechanics with Q(knockback) and W(Slow WITH DASH) only in the weapon, now you can ad protective measures like guardian helmets to block all the damage you get when the target reaches you or simply turn invisible with assassin jacket and wait your escape cooldowns to kite your opponent again or even use a mercenary jacket that fits better badon bows to heal the to full life like my fellow enemy in the video.

      Now the worst part of all. Ok you saw it, its no deal to face those weapons as a melee player, so you can just break the crystals and avoid the fight, right? Sorry pal but its not that simple. Bows and frosts are crazy good at hunting dow their prey. they simply manage their cooldows keep your track and staying you at combat so you dont heal and saving protective spells if you try to turn on them. You can see in the video a glimpse of this in the time of 0:40 seconds of the video where my opponent use his shoes slot to chase me and gets heavily punished by mobs and even tho he manages to turn the sitiuation against my favor quickly with his others escape and protective mechanics.

      My suggestion on fixing this its simply changing the knockback bow Q to interrupt channel abilities instead of knocking back enemies. this would solve the ENTIRE problem, as you can see in the video, my opponent used his Q 14 TIMES during the hole fight, by using math he knocked me 94 meters during the fight!
      You could argue that there are already a counter to knockbacks at the game like knight helmet, but lets be realistic, a 30 seconds cooldown helmet skill wich last for 6 seconds wouldnt make a single diference in the outcome of the fight as I said earlier the bow/frost has many others kiting/protective mechanics he could use instead of his Q during the knight helmet duration. You can argue that grave guard boots is a knockback counter aswell, but seriously, a 40% speed increase its a completely joke for a boot.

      Ok so can we buff those ''knockback counter'' items instead of nerfing the Q knockback? Its a wayout, but in my opinion, its a bad game design to force someone change a boot piece or head piece because of a Q slot weapon with extremelly low cooldown. it makes more sense to me change this knockback Q even if you buff its damage.

      Another idea is to add a potion in the game that buff your speed when you run towards enemy unmounted players and burst a slow in a melee range once the speed turns off. I think this would benefit a counter to kiting in general and couldnt be use in kiting playstyle since it only proc when running towards enemies(there are items like this in league of legends wich is turbochem tank and Righteous Glory)


      You can see the video and take you own conclusion, is it fair a 700/700 8.3 duel focused weapon be completely crushed by a 4.3 weapon?

      Thanks for you attention. I hope we can discuss a solution to this, because in my opinion I dont wanna play CD anymore in the current state. And before anyone comes here to troll or call me a noob.I play albion since beta and I've made more than 200m silver invading CDs only with melee weapons and I have 5 years of experience of league of legends at least diamond 1 gameplay.
      Stay out of range of his Q's unless you can actually reach him. His only dps outside of Q's when his E is on cd is AA with a thet cape sometimes. And when you do get in range try to hug a wall so you dont get knocked back as bad. Also do not run back into his E, just run out of range.

      Edit : Try guardian helmet, its strong against badons and its universally solid aswell. Also battle-axe is a hard match up vs badon yes, but its important to note that when i play bearpaws or claymore i have relatively a pritty easy time with badons.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by wolfo70 ().

    • SpicyPepper wrote:

      Hattenhair wrote:

      I'd heavily argue that fire staves are far from trash. It's just that you are supposed to use advanced tactics to win regular fights, while some other meta weapon can basically faceslam the keyboard to get the same result.Very good against any melee weapon, can adequately deal with any mid-range weapon and catch up to them via purging the boots or making use of Ignite. Although has severe issues with "no-contact" poke builds, mainly war- and badon- bows and the occastional great curse stave.


      I built my fire to be a heavily defensive brawler, got my first million of infamy with this one.
      Tried many other builds but neither stuck to me, as I came back to the beginning.
      It's not trash, it's next to trash. It's a fact :D . You can still win with it, but build wise you'd lose to almost everything else in CD. It's so weak because it has zero mobility while the brawl capability are very easy to counter.
      Unless the enemy mess themselves up somehow before the direct brawl, you can't just save your Fiend Cowl to purge their boots because you'll short a spell during the brawl and lose it. (Your enemy brawl with weapon + chest + helm, while you only brawl with weapon and chest). Just imagine a build with double merc jacket (specter hood), while you only have one (because you need fiend cowl to purge the shoes or you never land the kill). Because of this, you literally catch no one.

      You can indeed put up a fight and kill people in the mid / lower bracket (below 1 mil) because:
      1. There are a lot of player down there don't block ability with many thing, therefore losing brawl that they should've win, letting you saved the entire helmet to chase them.
      2. Misjudge the damage output they can take and stay fighting then die on the way our because of dots (fire artillery)
      Fighting with a fire means that you have infinite reset against a build that not even that strong in a direct 1v1 brawl. And if you win just once, fire can't escape.

      The only things that worse than a fire staff in CD right now are only Arcane, Hammer (which used to be hella broken), and maybe Nature. That makes fire some where 20-25% from the bottom of all weapons.
      Fire wall enemy mobility + Run for a reset.
      Swap to dodge roll incase you need the extra save for the brawl and leave purge for enemy mobility.
      One thing I can't argue about is that fire is very W dependent; if you dont have the correct W you will be at a severe disadvantage, so you need to be really careful during enemy inspection.

      Lack of mobility is an issue but it's not the end of the world.

      I'd gladly take a look how you fight with my build and analyze it from my side.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • I agree that Multishot, along with Frost shot is just too punishing vs melees. Let's not forget that this is against an axe with adrenaline rush which is definitely one of the top mobility skills right now.

      One of my biggest problems is with the fact that it is such a low cooldown knockback and therefore interrupt... One of the biggest issues with this is the animation lock you are stuck in whilst being knocked back. It can be super debilitating to a melee, especially when you have to commit mobility to close for damage, which can simply be responded with using frost shot, reducing the value of that mobility with the slow and instantly distancing.

      To whoever linked the video of them killing a bow on poison arrow instead of multishot, I think you kind of missed the point on why op was having trouble...

      I feel like if they want the bow to have that skill, it shouldnt be a negative mobility, and instead be changed to a positive. So if you hit at least one opponent, rather than knocking them back slightly, you simply jump back a little from the target. That way you still maintain your ability to kite a little, but without being to intrusive to your opponent, and definitely without the knockback on such a ridiculous cooldown for an interrupt.

      I have played bow in corrupted, and in open world. The fact remains that vs a melee, if you dont want to die, you wont when on bow. Alll you need to do is maintain max effective range, and use the current abilities to keep them off you until mobility expires. Completely agree that frost shot + multishot is just too strong vs melee in the current balancing state.
      Hop on in to my Discord and Twitch ^^
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      Fire wall enemy mobility + Run for a reset.Swap to dodge roll incase you need the extra save for the brawl and leave purge for enemy mobility.
      One thing I can't argue about is that fire is very W dependent; if you dont have the correct W you will be at a severe disadvantage, so you need to be really careful during enemy inspection.

      Lack of mobility is an issue but it's not the end of the world.

      I'd gladly take a look how you fight with my build and analyze it from my side.
      "Swap to dodge roll incase you need the extra save for the brawl and leave purge for enemy mobility." -> If you roll to brawl then you don't have shoes either, your foe don't need shoes, they just walk away. That roll is only usable on build that's already super fast or thing that can catch fast build (e.g harpoon)

      I usually run with sth like this: 1 hand mace + aegis shield, fiend cowl, valor armor, soldier boot. Fire staves had zero chance against this. Just with a well timed valor alone, you delete fire staff with a spoon. Not to mentioned Deep Leap go through fire/wind wall.

      I did not build this to fight fire because you meet fire like once or twice every 50 matches, and half of the time it's someone with low tier.

      That's said, this is a hard counter, so it does not prove my point (Fire is weak in CD scenario)

      Let's just end it here. If you enjoy fire, keep playing it, you play game to have fun. No point in playing sth if it feels like work.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • I feel Sbi had a child that now plays bow.

      It is clear you need 0 skill like daggers and you are rewarded for 0 skill.
      The normal bow need no artifact no ava nothing and it does a ridiculous amount of damage.
      You should not need purge for a normal weapon to survive against it especially if it has low tier and little spec.
      It is clear that Sbi deliberately do this to have people respec or to fame up or book up to keep minions chasing meta.

      They have no idea other than what mods tell them.

      The amount of damage also done by the Rmt has turned me off the game completely the premium price is a result of unfair misuse of the rules and the player is affected and expected to pick up the slack.

      I do not support corrupted devs and mods that influence the game also it is well know some of the oldest guilds have and always do influence the game in a negative way.

      This would explain the pathetic balancing of the games current status.

      Hence why I no longer play.
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      Rainphase wrote:

      Try running a Purge... Purge Normal Bow and Bow dies..
      Thats the thing... You run a purge, the bow dies, you dont, and you die.Meme 100% counter shit as always.
      Its not 100%, I can kill a bow without purge.. You just cant face tank them lofl. Maybe use game mechanics and beat them at thier own game.

      So tired of reading forums of people Whining and complaining about shit being Buff or nerfed too much. And then they comment like they are #1 Said Weapon Player. The biggest issue is.... Drum Roll Please....... Please suck at this game... And by means no harm intended but everyone continues to play zerg mechanics and doing dumb shit in 20 man groups thinking they are good... Yes you are an absolute GOD when it comes to killing someone who runs away... but as soon as they turn to fight your ass is dead.
    • It's sad how some people who have not even mastered the basic mechanics of the game can come into the forums to cry for nerfs or that something is OP simply because they do not understand the weapon's strengths and weaknesses

      They come and provide underperforming gameplay, and expect that they can simply straightforward face-tank win against certain classes in a game that revolves around a "rock paper scissor composition" of playstyle.

      The top players in corrupted run a build that is capable of either "resetting" their fights or a one-trick pony then reset if things go south or not within their expectations.

      And then it becomes a battle of endurance or a game of "ring a round the rosey" until 1 of them fucks it up and the other punishes the player that makes the first mistake wins or turns into a crystal smashing extravaganza if they are up against a build that simply hard-counters them.

      It is simply NOT fun running around circles for 10-15 minutes if both players are sweating to outplay each other lmao.
    • Rainphase wrote:

      Hattenhair wrote:

      Rainphase wrote:

      Try running a Purge... Purge Normal Bow and Bow dies..
      Thats the thing... You run a purge, the bow dies, you dont, and you die.Meme 100% counter shit as always.
      Its not 100%, I can kill a bow without purge.. You just cant face tank them lofl. Maybe use game mechanics and beat them at thier own game.
      So tired of reading forums of people Whining and complaining about shit being Buff or nerfed too much. And then they comment like they are #1 Said Weapon Player. The biggest issue is.... Drum Roll Please....... Please suck at this game... And by means no harm intended but everyone continues to play zerg mechanics and doing dumb shit in 20 man groups thinking they are good... Yes you are an absolute GOD when it comes to killing someone who runs away... but as soon as they turn to fight your ass is dead.
      Ahahah-hah, you took my post rather bluntly. Ofcourse it is not a 100% counter, but It gives you an immence advantage over a bow user.
      The issue is that a bow user just standing there autoattacking you with ~200 damage arrows takes much less effort than timing your defensives.
      Ofcourse a bow user can double stack their E and kite you in case you purge one of them in an unfortunate time, etc, etc.

      The regular bow is certainly in a weird place right now mechanics-wise, certainly far from a cheese build, but yet, not too close to putting enough effort into a fight, as per my expectations.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Well the bad players need something to play, Some people just don't have skill and that is fine, but others will never have skill or don't want to learn so they are given a weapon that requires no skill. Almost any combo set that can beat bow and there are many combinations of weapon and armors can beat bow with Skill.

      If you lack skill.. simply don't fight a bow.
    • @moking

      Who defend what? That weapon is useless af, Lmao. Only braindead people die to normal bow by himself.

      The only scenario where normal bow is somewhat useful is when he has proper pt with proper tank + healer + sup . .
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • @moking

      The weapon is mediocre. Hard countered by purge, slow to build up damage. Unlike some other bows, it has basically no kite potential. Nor does it have AoE for large scale fighting.

      It might have some niche in small scale group content, but I haven't seen it be a problem anywhere. The last normal bow I faced I was literally waiting for it to do more damage to proc my keeper cape, and I was wearing cloth.

      I can't believe 3 people are complaining about normal bow. Y'all want clips or something?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Evas_Flarelight: I removed the quoted post, it's not constructive. ().