Bow its unbeatable vs melee weapons

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    • Bow its unbeatable vs melee weapons

      Its simply a death sentence to face a bow in the current state of Corrupted Dungeons.
      As you can see in the upcoming video. Im 700/700 axe spec with 8.3 excelent gear and Im simply cannot touch the 4.3 bow user

      youtu.be/EtZ-PyV-rzM


      There isnt a single counterplay, its just getting kited and lose your time, money and sanity. Completely unbeatable. They have 2 kiting mechanics with Q(knockback) and W(Slow WITH DASH) only in the weapon, now you can ad protective measures like guardian helmets to block all the damage you get when the target reaches you or simply turn invisible with assassin jacket and wait your escape cooldowns to kite your opponent again or even use a mercenary jacket that fits better badon bows to heal the to full life like my fellow enemy in the video.

      Now the worst part of all. Ok you saw it, its no deal to face those weapons as a melee player, so you can just break the crystals and avoid the fight, right? Sorry pal but its not that simple. Bows and frosts are crazy good at hunting dow their prey. they simply manage their cooldows keep your track and staying you at combat so you dont heal and saving protective spells if you try to turn on them. You can see in the video a glimpse of this in the time of 0:40 seconds of the video where my opponent use his shoes slot to chase me and gets heavily punished by mobs and even tho he manages to turn the sitiuation against my favor quickly with his others escape and protective mechanics.

      My suggestion on fixing this its simply changing the knockback bow Q to interrupt channel abilities instead of knocking back enemies. this would solve the ENTIRE problem, as you can see in the video, my opponent used his Q 14 TIMES during the hole fight, by using math he knocked me 94 meters during the fight!
      You could argue that there are already a counter to knockbacks at the game like knight helmet, but lets be realistic, a 30 seconds cooldown helmet skill wich last for 6 seconds wouldnt make a single diference in the outcome of the fight as I said earlier the bow/frost has many others kiting/protective mechanics he could use instead of his Q during the knight helmet duration. You can argue that grave guard boots is a knockback counter aswell, but seriously, a 40% speed increase its a completely joke for a boot.

      Ok so can we buff those ''knockback counter'' items instead of nerfing the Q knockback? Its a wayout, but in my opinion, its a bad game design to force someone change a boot piece or head piece because of a Q slot weapon with extremelly low cooldown. it makes more sense to me change this knockback Q even if you buff its damage.

      Another idea is to add a potion in the game that buff your speed when you run towards enemy unmounted players and burst a slow in a melee range once the speed turns off. I think this would benefit a counter to kiting in general and couldnt be use in kiting playstyle since it only proc when running towards enemies(there are items like this in league of legends wich is turbochem tank and Righteous Glory)


      You can see the video and take you own conclusion, is it fair a 700/700 8.3 duel focused weapon be completely crushed by a 4.3 weapon?

      Thanks for you attention. I hope we can discuss a solution to this, because in my opinion I dont wanna play CD anymore in the current state. And before anyone comes here to troll or call me a noob.I play albion since beta and I've made more than 200m silver invading CDs only with melee weapons and I have 5 years of experience of league of legends at least diamond 1 gameplay.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Bacharel ().

    • First that comes into my mind is the fix of merc Jacket. That is mega broken on Badon


      If u remember in the past, poison pot triggered merc jacket. If u as melee had that, u could heal on same mechanic as Badon.

      If poison dot + merc is OP and needed fix, why Badon Dot + merc still possible??

      After all the healing Nerf it is time to change merc jacket to not trigger on dot, but on direct hit.

    • Alright dude. I watched the video and read your post.

      So i have to say : I am sorry, but you played like complete trash and you have no idea what you are saying.
      Why are you wearing 8.3 set when you don´t know how to play corrupted dungeons ? Wear t8.0 so u get used to it or do stalker.

      First of all, your oponnent played so badly it hurts. He even cornered himself. He engaged you first with sprint on shoes, that´s just horrible.
      As for you - i can´t. You could have used merc jacket way sooner. You also actually stay in badow´s E for a full duration, and ur using resist pot against badon. You might have experience playing CD, but you play battleaxe like a complete trash.

      Other thing is - badon can never for the love of god catch you as battleaxe. There is simply no way. You can break crystals extremely easily. Now, trying to escape from let´s say bear paws - now that´s another story. But escaping from bow ? A joke. He can´t ever kill you.

      As for battleaxe vs badon - that is a tough matchup. Bad badons can be killed. Good badons would have to mess up really badly. Either way - usually you cant kill them, and they can´t ever kill you.
      But if you have CC offhand on battleaxe, you can kill badons pretty easily. And if you have royal jacket with cc offhand - that´s literally a counter to badon. And same with bear paws - they murder badon pretty hard.

      And again, you saying you have experience with this game, and yet even you say this " You can argue that grave guard boots is a knockback counter aswell, but seriously, a 40% speed increase its a completely joke for a boot. " --- no. Graveguard boots do not protect again knockbacks.

      Here , the problem is not in the weapon - it´s in you. Badon has no means of ever killing you as battleaxe if you decide to run. And you have a decent chance to fight badon and if he makes mistakes, you might get lucky : ).

      But other than that, yes, Q needs to be nerfed. Bows are in very strong place.

      Look here for example - royal jacket with CC offhand and badon can´t do shit. And god damn, this guy was the best badon i ever played against.

    • Ty very much for your response and contribute with your knowledge!

      The point of my post is not to butthurt because I've died with the 8.3 gear or claim that im a pro at battleaxes. The fact is that I do play with spears, swords, daggers and axes - the bow Q problem sticks with all of them.

      In fact I mostly play stalker because its more build diverse and I tend to win much more then lose, but when I go slayer, it seems there are only Warbows and badons, today I've lost 5 times in streak against 3 warbows and 2 badons, its seems something is wrong with the weapon in itself so I've bought the 8.3 gear knewing I was going to face another one and be kited to death. The video was just to illustrate how ridicoulus the Q is in a didactive way,(I dont really bother to lose silver).

      but I cant agree with you in the escape problem, maybe in stalker you can just break the crystals, but in slayer they are simply so tanky that bows eventually reach you and chunk a small portion of your health and keep you in combat until you are either forced to turn and fight or killed by exhaustion/mob trapped

    • Tabor wrote:

      Knockback shot Q and frost shot W should not both exist. I think removing the W would work because it still leaves bow a more skillful W option (ray of light).
      I would rather see multishot on W and simply remove the option to have both AND a kiting option as a spammable Q spell. Frost shot in itself is fine maybe the slow can be toned down a little AT BEST but main issue is having the option to have both avaliable.

    • Borbarad wrote:

      escaping from bows is ez, worst to escape from would be bear paws i imagine.
      I totally agree

      Even if bows is a pain in the ass for every melee player, it's still funny as sword player to see axe player complaining about this since axes are the melee weapon with the most mobility over all other.

      But instead of asking for nerf like crying babies why not thinking about upgrading other melee weapons or change the level design of CD ?

      There is a problem with every kiting classes in CD not only bow, they basically are the most efficient in those dungeons so I don't think nerfing only one kiting class would solve the problem. And even with this problem this is not impossible to beat kiters and bowmen in CD with melee, I killed kiters with Claymore, Dual Swords, Carving, Broadsword etc...

    • Bacharel wrote:

      Its simply a death sentence to face a bow in the current state of Corrupted Dungeons.
      As you can see in the upcoming video. Im 700/700 axe spec with 8.3 excelent gear and Im simply cannot touch the 4.3 bow user

      youtu.be/EtZ-PyV-rzM


      There isnt a single counterplay, its just getting kited and lose your time, money and sanity. Completely unbeatable.

      I'm currently running Cd with 1 hand mace, fiend cowl, assassin jacket, taproot. Take single target Q, snare charge on W. You don't even need mist caller.

      To me all bow are free kill. So NO, bow is not unbeatable with a melee weapon.

      As for your clip, you played very badly. Here are some of it:
      • Very first problem is that he took Run, you took Refreshing Sprint. You want to chase him you take run too, because you don't have CC. Refresh Sprint only catch Run when you have CC, you rush up faster than his shoes and CC his run. Not to mention you also had Mistcaller.
      • Why are you using resist pot against a kiting bow ??? Like wth ?? Resist what ??
      • At 0:47 - You wasted your W for nothing. He's standing between you and the mobs. He was gonna run to you himself but you wasted your Adrenaline Rush for nothing.
      • 1:12 - Here it is. What was you resisting there ?? Do some math to see how much HP did the res pot help you there and compare it to a healing pot, not to mention healing pot has shorter cool down.
      • 1:23 - Walk back into badon E ?( . Like ?? He cornered himself in that hole, and you just joined him into the hole through his E.
      • You used merc jacket too late or you'd have had a second one.
      Solo/duo player.
      Play mostly tank
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.

    • I am main bows and i can assure you you played very badly. You've said in your post that bows are very good at chasing down axes (which sums up your level of experience anyway) but that's not true. Like everybody else said, under no circumstances a bow can catch up to one of the most mobile melee weapon in the game. Literally none bro. Instead of crying for a nerf to a kiting weapon just skip your counter then. Good luck

    • The issue that he is tackling here is not the fact that he played good but still died. It is because of the unreasonably low Cooldown on the Q spell. I think that most people here who are trashtalking the guy are mostly bow players who want to continue using the build. I do believe that increasing the cooldown on the Q slot for bows is very important for the health of the CD. We need to try and be constructive(seeing the real issue) here and not destructive(blaming the guy for poor gameplay). It just should be nerfed in terms of cooldowns or knockback. Increasing the cooldown by at least 2 seconds would solve it

    • Raikvaza wrote:

      The issue that he is tackling here is not the fact that he played good but still died. It is because of the unreasonably low Cooldown on the Q spell. I think that most people here who are trashtalking the guy are mostly bow players who want to continue using the build. I do believe that increasing the cooldown on the Q slot for bows is very important for the health of the CD. We need to try and be constructive(seeing the real issue) here and not destructive(blaming the guy for poor gameplay). It just should be nerfed in terms of cooldowns or knockback. Increasing the cooldown by at least 2 seconds would solve it
      Chasing any bow in CD is 10 times easier than chasing the 1 hand frost. Bow is supposed to be a kiting class, but it's much worse at its job than a mage class.

      Not to mention that getting away from frost is also harder than getting away from a bow.

      Bows are good the way they are right now. Or even worse, bows have been in kinda weak spot after the nerf on Frost Shot and Ray of Light, which drastically reduce their kiting capability.
      Solo/duo player.
      Play mostly tank
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.

    • You are comparing pears and apples. The playstyle of frost and bow is completely different. I am not saying that frost shot or ray of light is broken. It is not

      The problem is the Q. Its not about the kite its about a low cooldown which it has. And you are completely over exaggerating when you say "10 times easier". It is not! Try chasing a bow that knocks you back 15 times in under a minute that also deals damage while your opponent struggles to get to you. If a bow is an experienced player than it has a huge advantage over any melee. I am not talking about range and the thread was never about that

    • Bacharel wrote:

      Its simply a death sentence to face a bow in the current state of Corrupted Dungeons.
      As you can see in the upcoming video. Im 700/700 axe spec with 8.3 excelent gear and Im simply cannot touch the 4.3 bow user

      youtu.be/EtZ-PyV-rzM


      There isnt a single counterplay, its just getting kited and lose your time, money and sanity. Completely unbeatable. They have 2 kiting mechanics with Q(knockback) and W(Slow WITH DASH) only in the weapon, now you can ad protective measures like guardian helmets to block all the damage you get when the target reaches you or simply turn invisible with assassin jacket and wait your escape cooldowns to kite your opponent again or even use a mercenary jacket that fits better badon bows to heal the to full life like my fellow enemy in the video.

      Now the worst part of all. Ok you saw it, its no deal to face those weapons as a melee player, so you can just break the crystals and avoid the fight, right? Sorry pal but its not that simple. Bows and frosts are crazy good at hunting dow their prey. they simply manage their cooldows keep your track and staying you at combat so you dont heal and saving protective spells if you try to turn on them. You can see in the video a glimpse of this in the time of 0:40 seconds of the video where my opponent use his shoes slot to chase me and gets heavily punished by mobs and even tho he manages to turn the sitiuation against my favor quickly with his others escape and protective mechanics.

      My suggestion on fixing this its simply changing the knockback bow Q to interrupt channel abilities instead of knocking back enemies. this would solve the ENTIRE problem, as you can see in the video, my opponent used his Q 14 TIMES during the hole fight, by using math he knocked me 94 meters during the fight!
      You could argue that there are already a counter to knockbacks at the game like knight helmet, but lets be realistic, a 30 seconds cooldown helmet skill wich last for 6 seconds wouldnt make a single diference in the outcome of the fight as I said earlier the bow/frost has many others kiting/protective mechanics he could use instead of his Q during the knight helmet duration. You can argue that grave guard boots is a knockback counter aswell, but seriously, a 40% speed increase its a completely joke for a boot.

      Ok so can we buff those ''knockback counter'' items instead of nerfing the Q knockback? Its a wayout, but in my opinion, its a bad game design to force someone change a boot piece or head piece because of a Q slot weapon with extremelly low cooldown. it makes more sense to me change this knockback Q even if you buff its damage.

      Another idea is to add a potion in the game that buff your speed when you run towards enemy unmounted players and burst a slow in a melee range once the speed turns off. I think this would benefit a counter to kiting in general and couldnt be use in kiting playstyle since it only proc when running towards enemies(there are items like this in league of legends wich is turbochem tank and Righteous Glory)


      You can see the video and take you own conclusion, is it fair a 700/700 8.3 duel focused weapon be completely crushed by a 4.3 weapon?

      Thanks for you attention. I hope we can discuss a solution to this, because in my opinion I dont wanna play CD anymore in the current state. And before anyone comes here to troll or call me a noob.I play albion since beta and I've made more than 200m silver invading CDs only with melee weapons and I have 5 years of experience of league of legends at least diamond 1 gameplay.
      Badonico is horrible, the only good bows are the whispering, normal bow and the Avalonian bow with the Normal Bow highlighted, which is extremely broken, but badonico just doesn't do any damage, even more if you have a guardian helmet that completely removes the damage of the E of badon, the only thing that is unbalanced in Badon is this Q that is completely ridiculous, but I can't help saying that you play like a cone, without wanting to offend but you literally walk in a straight line taking all the skills that are thrown, you look like a goalkeeper grabbing the skills, Badon has 30s of DC on him. And if he misses 1 he will be 30s just attacking with the Q you can dodge.

    • Raikvaza wrote:

      You are comparing pears and apples. The playstyle of frost and bow is completely different. I am not saying that frost shot or ray of light is broken. It is not

      The problem is the Q. Its not about the kite its about a low cooldown which it has. And you are completely over exaggerating when you say "10 times easier". It is not! Try chasing a bow that knocks you back 15 times in under a minute that also deals damage while your opponent struggles to get to you. If a bow is an experienced player than it has a huge advantage over any melee. I am not talking about range and the thread was never about that
      I did not compare pears and apples. I stated that bow is doing worse at the only thing it can do compare to a weapon that do other things beside just kiting. It's like stating that a fish is worse at swimming than a dog.

      Multishot does not have short cool down. 3s cool down is the middle for a Q spell. Multishot has 4 sec cooldown.

      In CD, I have ~ 95% win rate against bow, 40% win rate against frost, and ~ 10% win rate against plate frost. I don't need to "try chasing a bow", because I've done that so many times.

      "it has a huge advantage over any melee" -> Ofc it's a huge advantage over any melee or else there would be no bow. Except for normal bow, which is a turret, all bows do is kiting, once you get pass that kiting you can win bow in a brawl with a spoon, and it's not even that good at kiting. Compare to fighting against frost as melee, you have to get through the kiting, then there's the matter of whether you chase frost to just to get killed in a brawl.
      Solo/duo player.
      Play mostly tank
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.

    • Bacharel wrote:

      Its simply a death sentence to face a bow in the current state of Corrupted Dungeons.
      As you can see in the upcoming video. Im 700/700 axe spec with 8.3 excelent gear and Im simply cannot touch the 4.3 bow user

      youtu.be/EtZ-PyV-rzM


      There isnt a single counterplay, its just getting kited and lose your time, money and sanity. Completely unbeatable. They have 2 kiting mechanics with Q(knockback) and W(Slow WITH DASH) only in the weapon, now you can ad protective measures like guardian helmets to block all the damage you get when the target reaches you or simply turn invisible with assassin jacket and wait your escape cooldowns to kite your opponent again or even use a mercenary jacket that fits better badon bows to heal the to full life like my fellow enemy in the video.

      Now the worst part of all. Ok you saw it, its no deal to face those weapons as a melee player, so you can just break the crystals and avoid the fight, right? Sorry pal but its not that simple. Bows and frosts are crazy good at hunting dow their prey. they simply manage their cooldows keep your track and staying you at combat so you dont heal and saving protective spells if you try to turn on them. You can see in the video a glimpse of this in the time of 0:40 seconds of the video where my opponent use his shoes slot to chase me and gets heavily punished by mobs and even tho he manages to turn the sitiuation against my favor quickly with his others escape and protective mechanics.

      My suggestion on fixing this its simply changing the knockback bow Q to interrupt channel abilities instead of knocking back enemies. this would solve the ENTIRE problem, as you can see in the video, my opponent used his Q 14 TIMES during the hole fight, by using math he knocked me 94 meters during the fight!
      You could argue that there are already a counter to knockbacks at the game like knight helmet, but lets be realistic, a 30 seconds cooldown helmet skill wich last for 6 seconds wouldnt make a single diference in the outcome of the fight as I said earlier the bow/frost has many others kiting/protective mechanics he could use instead of his Q during the knight helmet duration. You can argue that grave guard boots is a knockback counter aswell, but seriously, a 40% speed increase its a completely joke for a boot.

      Ok so can we buff those ''knockback counter'' items instead of nerfing the Q knockback? Its a wayout, but in my opinion, its a bad game design to force someone change a boot piece or head piece because of a Q slot weapon with extremelly low cooldown. it makes more sense to me change this knockback Q even if you buff its damage.

      Another idea is to add a potion in the game that buff your speed when you run towards enemy unmounted players and burst a slow in a melee range once the speed turns off. I think this would benefit a counter to kiting in general and couldnt be use in kiting playstyle since it only proc when running towards enemies(there are items like this in league of legends wich is turbochem tank and Righteous Glory)


      You can see the video and take you own conclusion, is it fair a 700/700 8.3 duel focused weapon be completely crushed by a 4.3 weapon?

      Thanks for you attention. I hope we can discuss a solution to this, because in my opinion I dont wanna play CD anymore in the current state. And before anyone comes here to troll or call me a noob.I play albion since beta and I've made more than 200m silver invading CDs only with melee weapons and I have 5 years of experience of league of legends at least diamond 1 gameplay.
      Bow is extremely good is played correctly and yes it is overpowered in 1v1 however.. There are ways to counter this effectively while not losing all of your CD potential.. Run a purge, Run a resist pot, Run a health pot.. Kite. Bait traps.. you cannot just play super aggressive against a bow user unless you know you going to win or you can purge their E. Spears especially Daybreaker Completely Delete bow users.

      Imma edit this... After watching your video.

      Im not trying to flame you at all but after watching the video, you blindly chased this dude to your death. Playing against bow especially badon you need to use the map to your advantage and you need to run and bait out his movement speed cause he thinks you are running. You didn't cycle your skills properly, you face smashed your skills as soon as they were up and the badon user knew and saw this and kited you for eternity. Yes bow has huge kit ability and it can be CHEESY.. but you played that match extremely poorly.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Rainphase ().