For the love of god, ban holy staff from CD

    • For the love of god, ban holy staff from CD

      I'll describe my last fight.
      I encounter an avalonian holy staff, playing as 1h frost, as usual I start the engage by kiting, there was a lava mob left walking beside a slowing trap, so I decided to freeze my opponent right above the slowing trap right next to the lava mob so he gets the aggro.

      On any other build, that would be an insta kill, either that or it would force the opponent to disengage and retreat.
      Not against stupid holy healers.

      It all worked perfectly, the mob was throwing everything at him, I started to spam Q and combo every single damage skill I could, and this guy just jumped over me, threw a poison and spam auto, inbetween every auto he just spammed Q on him healing to full health, with the auto passive he regenerated all his mana, he went litteraly from 20% HP to full health in over 3 seconds, meanwhile I was heavily wounded by posion going down to 30% so I decide to disengage, between the insane range he has on his E, plus sprint he ensures to always get in range to throw me another poison, meanwhile if he gets close enough with an auto plus thetford cape he hits me for 120 hp.

      So ofc I lost the fight, he just chased me down healing for every hp I could manage to take away from him, throwing t8 poisons and hitting me with the thetford cape.
      Now, I tried to think a way of killing him, and after a few hours I realized there is none, the only way I could actually turn the fight around was to run away and break crystalls.

      - If i stayed out of range just using my E, he would have healed every time making and endless fight, at most he would get tired of chasing and we end breaking crystalls. (he can use the mana regen passive against mobs, or traps)
      - If i stood my ground and fight, he would have over healed all my damage and killed me. (even when I have a secondary damage source like a freaking laba mob throwing everything at him)
      - If I somehow trap him in every way, he can just jump away and heal, reseting fight, and if he is not using avalonian holy he can use any other defensive with the same porpouse.

      So the only way to counter something like that is playing dagger, or a toxic 1shot stunlock build. It's completely stupid to have something like that runnning around freely.

      Suggestions:
      1. Remove the mana regen passive from holy and nature staff. They don't need it, there are plenty of other items who can help, like royal cowl or mana pots.

      2. Remove the self healing mechanic. Healers are designed to support other players, not to become unkillable tanks who can out heal any kind of damage.

      3. Ban holy and nature staff from corrupted dungeons.

      4. Switch healing spells inside corrupted dungeons for some kind of damage or utility spell.

      It's plain ridiculous to leave a build like this running around just because "you can just break crystalls and they won't be able to stop you", first because they can still push you against traps, mobs, etc. And secondly because CD players want to fight, most of us are here to fight against everyone we can, and for that we must have some sort of way to counter any build, usually if you can't kill them upfront, you can kill them with traps or mobs, i got this guy against a mob within a trap and he still survived, not only that, he outhealed all of my damage and the mobs damage, and managed to even chase me down after it and kill me. If we are forced to flee against this sort of builds then we should all start playing them and just break crystalls and open chests, it makes no sense.

    • Clasics wrote:

      Suggestions:
      1. Remove the mana regen passive from holy and nature staff. They don't need it, there are plenty of other items who can help, like royal cowl or mana pots.

      2. Remove the self healing mechanic. Healers are designed to support other players, not to become unkillable tanks who can out heal any kind of damage.

      3. Ban holy and nature staff from corrupted dungeons.

      4. Switch healing spells inside corrupted dungeons for some kind of damage or utility spell.
      1. They do need it, actually
      2. Says... You? I'm not sure the game designers agree that healers are only supposed to support others. I, at least, disagree with you. They also can't out heal any kind of damage/build.
      3. Ruin another playstyle because they hard countered you? Bold.

      4. We have that option actually; smite/thorns. Thorns was just nerfed though because y'all didn't actually like that either.

      Clasics wrote:

      most of us are here to fight against everyone we can, and for that we must have some sort of way to counter any build, usually if you can't kill them upfront, you can kill them with traps or mobs
      Everyone you can except holy and any other build that can hard counter you, right?


      I get that it may be frustrating to have a build that hard counters your build but, suggesting that style of play is removed because of that is absurd. I'm also not suggesting healers couldn't be balanced more in CD (like lower self healing or some such) but I'm not on the balance team and don't have access to the data nor have to answer the hard questions they do. If you're against a build that hard counters you, break the crystals - that's why they're there.

    • Bieve wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      Suggestions:
      1. Remove the mana regen passive from holy and nature staff. They don't need it, there are plenty of other items who can help, like royal cowl or mana pots.

      2. Remove the self healing mechanic. Healers are designed to support other players, not to become unkillable tanks who can out heal any kind of damage.

      3. Ban holy and nature staff from corrupted dungeons.

      4. Switch healing spells inside corrupted dungeons for some kind of damage or utility spell.
      1. They do need it, actually
      2. Says... You? I'm not sure the game designers agree that healers are only supposed to support others. I, at least, disagree with you. They also can't out heal any kind of damage/build.
      3. Ruin another playstyle because they hard countered you? Bold.
      4. We have that option actually; smite/thorns. Thorns was just nerfed though because y'all didn't actually like that either.


      So no arguments, examples or whatever, you just deny everything I say... Good debating skills.....


      1. Not in a duel, not a single dps weapon uses that passive mid duels.
      2. So because you don't agree devs also shouldn't, they can and they do outheal almost every build except fire builds and some dagger or one shot builds, actually, there are tons of complains on reddit, and on this same forum, plus a lot of video footage.
      3. You are right it's a stupid solution. I won't deny it I was pissed.
      4. When I wrote that I meant to deny healing spells or at least the self heal mechanic, thorns were nerfed because natures don't need to spam heals over and over again, the ability to heal over time meanwhile doing good dps was completely toxic and impossible to play against. Thats why it got nerfed, but you don't care about facts, you just deny everything because you play this builds so you think they are fine.

      Clasics wrote:

      most of us are here to fight against everyone we can, and for that we must have some sort of way to counter any build, usually if you can't kill them upfront, you can kill them with traps or mobs
      Everyone you can except holy and any other build that can hard counter you, right?

      Talk to me about missing the point, they don't hardcounter only my build, they hardcounter almost everything out there... There are a lot of complains about healers in CD.

      I get that it may be frustrating to have a build that hard counters your build but, suggesting that style of play is removed because of that is absurd. I'm also not suggesting healers couldn't be balanced more in CD (like lower self healing or some such) but I'm not on the balance team and don't have access to the data nor have to answer the hard questions they do. If you're against a build that hard counters you, break the crystals - that's why they're there.


      First you deny everything I say with no argument at all, then you aknowledge they need a nerf, you also speak for the devs telling me you are not sure they agree with every other mmorpg logic, but then you say "I'm not on the balance team bla bla bla..."
      And you finish by missing the point 2 times in a row.

    • Clasics wrote:

      Bieve wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      Suggestions:
      1. Remove the mana regen passive from holy and nature staff. They don't need it, there are plenty of other items who can help, like royal cowl or mana pots.

      2. Remove the self healing mechanic. Healers are designed to support other players, not to become unkillable tanks who can out heal any kind of damage.

      3. Ban holy and nature staff from corrupted dungeons.

      4. Switch healing spells inside corrupted dungeons for some kind of damage or utility spell.
      1. They do need it, actually
      2. Says... You? I'm not sure the game designers agree that healers are only supposed to support others. I, at least, disagree with you. They also can't out heal any kind of damage/build.
      3. Ruin another playstyle because they hard countered you? Bold.
      4. We have that option actually; smite/thorns. Thorns was just nerfed though because y'all didn't actually like that either.

      So no arguments, examples or whatever, you just deny everything I say... Good debating skills.....


      1. Not in a duel, not a single dps weapon uses that passive mid duels.
      2. So because you don't agree devs also shouldn't, they can and they do outheal almost every build except fire builds and some dagger or one shot builds, actually, there are tons of complains on reddit, and on this same forum, plus a lot of video footage.
      3. You are right it's a stupid solution. I won't deny it I was pissed.
      4. When I wrote that I meant to deny healing spells or at least the self heal mechanic, thorns were nerfed because natures don't need to spam heals over and over again, the ability to heal over time meanwhile doing good dps was completely toxic and impossible to play against. Thats why it got nerfed, but you don't care about facts, you just deny everything because you play this builds so you think they are fine.

      Clasics wrote:

      most of us are here to fight against everyone we can, and for that we must have some sort of way to counter any build, usually if you can't kill them upfront, you can kill them with traps or mobs
      Everyone you can except holy and any other build that can hard counter you, right?
      Talk to me about missing the point, they don't hardcounter only my build, they hardcounter almost everything out there... There are a lot of complains about healers in CD.

      I get that it may be frustrating to have a build that hard counters your build but, suggesting that style of play is removed because of that is absurd. I'm also not suggesting healers couldn't be balanced more in CD (like lower self healing or some such) but I'm not on the balance team and don't have access to the data nor have to answer the hard questions they do. If you're against a build that hard counters you, break the crystals - that's why they're there.


      First you deny everything I say with no argument at all, then you aknowledge they need a nerf, you also speak for the devs telling me you are not sure they agree with every other mmorpg logic, but then you say "I'm not on the balance team bla bla bla..."
      And you finish by missing the point 2 times in a row.

      a few mistakes my friend

      1) it is not holy or nature. Nature already got rekt to a pure pve weapon for solo and holy, your issue is not holy, your issue is hallowfall.
      2) hallowfall if u look at patch notes gets another nerv
      3) kiting and endless reset is same BS as current hallowfall. I already get sick if I invade and see a perfect cleared circle..and know I am invited to run endless circles now..or break crystal

    • Trial_hard wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      Bieve wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      Suggestions:
      1. Remove the mana regen passive from holy and nature staff. They don't need it, there are plenty of other items who can help, like royal cowl or mana pots.

      2. Remove the self healing mechanic. Healers are designed to support other players, not to become unkillable tanks who can out heal any kind of damage.

      3. Ban holy and nature staff from corrupted dungeons.

      4. Switch healing spells inside corrupted dungeons for some kind of damage or utility spell.
      1. They do need it, actually
      2. Says... You? I'm not sure the game designers agree that healers are only supposed to support others. I, at least, disagree with you. They also can't out heal any kind of damage/build.
      3. Ruin another playstyle because they hard countered you? Bold.
      4. We have that option actually; smite/thorns. Thorns was just nerfed though because y'all didn't actually like that either.
      So no arguments, examples or whatever, you just deny everything I say... Good debating skills.....


      1. Not in a duel, not a single dps weapon uses that passive mid duels.
      2. So because you don't agree devs also shouldn't, they can and they do outheal almost every build except fire builds and some dagger or one shot builds, actually, there are tons of complains on reddit, and on this same forum, plus a lot of video footage.
      3. You are right it's a stupid solution. I won't deny it I was pissed.
      4. When I wrote that I meant to deny healing spells or at least the self heal mechanic, thorns were nerfed because natures don't need to spam heals over and over again, the ability to heal over time meanwhile doing good dps was completely toxic and impossible to play against. Thats why it got nerfed, but you don't care about facts, you just deny everything because you play this builds so you think they are fine.

      Clasics wrote:

      most of us are here to fight against everyone we can, and for that we must have some sort of way to counter any build, usually if you can't kill them upfront, you can kill them with traps or mobs
      Everyone you can except holy and any other build that can hard counter you, right?Talk to me about missing the point, they don't hardcounter only my build, they hardcounter almost everything out there... There are a lot of complains about healers in CD.

      I get that it may be frustrating to have a build that hard counters your build but, suggesting that style of play is removed because of that is absurd. I'm also not suggesting healers couldn't be balanced more in CD (like lower self healing or some such) but I'm not on the balance team and don't have access to the data nor have to answer the hard questions they do. If you're against a build that hard counters you, break the crystals - that's why they're there.


      First you deny everything I say with no argument at all, then you aknowledge they need a nerf, you also speak for the devs telling me you are not sure they agree with every other mmorpg logic, but then you say "I'm not on the balance team bla bla bla..."
      And you finish by missing the point 2 times in a row.

      a few mistakes my friend
      1) it is not holy or nature. Nature already got rekt to a pure pve weapon for solo and holy, your issue is not holy, your issue is hallowfall.
      2) hallowfall if u look at patch notes gets another nerv
      3) kiting and endless reset is same BS as current hallowfall. I already get sick if I invade and see a perfect cleared circle..and know I am invited to run endless circles now..or break crystal
      1. Well I agree with what you say about nature, even tho I belive they needed that nerf, but about that hallowfall statement, I've also encountered plenty divine holy staff users using the same game plan, toss a posion, alt+q with basics in between.

      2. If you are talking about that cd increase on their E, I personally belive it didn't work at all, the problem to me about this builds is their ability to just outheal anything by spamming Q on themselves, either you stunlock them to death, something very little builds can do, or play dagger. Now if what you mean is their are getting another nerf then thank SBI.

      3. To be completely honest with you, I'm main frost because I love perma for zvz, never thought I would use frost inside CD back when I was playing swords, but I got so freaking tired of encountering those endless reset chasers. It brought me to a point were I had no more choice either I left CD or join them. So I agree that whole playstyle on every weapon that allows it should be reworked, most frost weps, bear paws, almost every bow and xbow, holy healers, etc.
      Yet I can't imagine how they could do that.

    • Fine, I'll clarify and give examples, despite the fact that you made hard statements that are uninformed in your initial points.

      1. Healers need the energy regen passive because, despite the lymhurst cape and energy potions, it's the only way to maintain sufficient energy over prolonged encounters; both in PvE and PvP. This is even relevant in arena, a smaller scale, less prolonged encounter. You claimed healers don't, with no evidence to support your claim.
      2. It's not because I don't agree. It's because the developers haven't made heals only effect group members or heal yourself less. There's also abilities (like the beam or sphere on 'W') that cannot be used to heal yourself when solo. It suggests, at least in some way, that the developers don't think healers are purely designed to support others. You claimed healers are designed to support other players without evidence.
      3. Fair enough.
      4. I know what you meant. But, how it was nerfed doesn't support your current claim either. Thorns exists on 'Q', which allowed nature staff users to deal damage (and reflect) while also healing themselves with their 'W' and 'E'. The nerf removed reflect and lowered the damage of the 'Q' - changing nothing about how they heal themselves and only lowering their damage output while doing so. It was nerfed because their damage output (particularly with reflect) was too high compared to the self healing they had. This may also be true of Holy, but your suggestion was to simply remove it completely. I do care about facts, should you have them to present.
      I acknowledged that they could need balance changes. Could you point to exactly where I speak for the devs? I think I made it quite clear that I don't. I also didn't miss your point; I simply find your point anecdotal and your suggestions to 'fix' the problem absurd.

    • Clasics wrote:

      Trial_hard wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      Bieve wrote:

      Clasics wrote:

      Suggestions:
      1. Remove the mana regen passive from holy and nature staff. They don't need it, there are plenty of other items who can help, like royal cowl or mana pots.

      2. Remove the self healing mechanic. Healers are designed to support other players, not to become unkillable tanks who can out heal any kind of damage.

      3. Ban holy and nature staff from corrupted dungeons.

      4. Switch healing spells inside corrupted dungeons for some kind of damage or utility spell.
      1. They do need it, actually
      2. Says... You? I'm not sure the game designers agree that healers are only supposed to support others. I, at least, disagree with you. They also can't out heal any kind of damage/build.
      3. Ruin another playstyle because they hard countered you? Bold.
      4. We have that option actually; smite/thorns. Thorns was just nerfed though because y'all didn't actually like that either.
      So no arguments, examples or whatever, you just deny everything I say... Good debating skills.....

      1. Not in a duel, not a single dps weapon uses that passive mid duels.
      2. So because you don't agree devs also shouldn't, they can and they do outheal almost every build except fire builds and some dagger or one shot builds, actually, there are tons of complains on reddit, and on this same forum, plus a lot of video footage.
      3. You are right it's a stupid solution. I won't deny it I was pissed.
      4. When I wrote that I meant to deny healing spells or at least the self heal mechanic, thorns were nerfed because natures don't need to spam heals over and over again, the ability to heal over time meanwhile doing good dps was completely toxic and impossible to play against. Thats why it got nerfed, but you don't care about facts, you just deny everything because you play this builds so you think they are fine.

      Clasics wrote:

      most of us are here to fight against everyone we can, and for that we must have some sort of way to counter any build, usually if you can't kill them upfront, you can kill them with traps or mobs
      Everyone you can except holy and any other build that can hard counter you, right?Talk to me about missing the point, they don't hardcounter only my build, they hardcounter almost everything out there... There are a lot of complains about healers in CD.
      I get that it may be frustrating to have a build that hard counters your build but, suggesting that style of play is removed because of that is absurd. I'm also not suggesting healers couldn't be balanced more in CD (like lower self healing or some such) but I'm not on the balance team and don't have access to the data nor have to answer the hard questions they do. If you're against a build that hard counters you, break the crystals - that's why they're there.


      First you deny everything I say with no argument at all, then you aknowledge they need a nerf, you also speak for the devs telling me you are not sure they agree with every other mmorpg logic, but then you say "I'm not on the balance team bla bla bla..."
      And you finish by missing the point 2 times in a row.

      a few mistakes my friend1) it is not holy or nature. Nature already got rekt to a pure pve weapon for solo and holy, your issue is not holy, your issue is hallowfall.
      2) hallowfall if u look at patch notes gets another nerv
      3) kiting and endless reset is same BS as current hallowfall. I already get sick if I invade and see a perfect cleared circle..and know I am invited to run endless circles now..or break crystal
      1. Well I agree with what you say about nature, even tho I belive they needed that nerf, but about that hallowfall statement, I've also encountered plenty divine holy staff users using the same game plan, toss a posion, alt+q with basics in between.
      2. If you are talking about that cd increase on their E, I personally belive it didn't work at all, the problem to me about this builds is their ability to just outheal anything by spamming Q on themselves, either you stunlock them to death, something very little builds can do, or play dagger. Now if what you mean is their are getting another nerf then thank SBI.

      3. To be completely honest with you, I'm main frost because I love perma for zvz, never thought I would use frost inside CD back when I was playing swords, but I got so freaking tired of encountering those endless reset chasers. It brought me to a point were I had no more choice either I left CD or join them. So I agree that whole playstyle on every weapon that allows it should be reworked, most frost weps, bear paws, almost every bow and xbow, holy healers, etc.
      Yet I can't imagine how they could do that.
      well, the issue on all heal is, it got nerved, not destroyed.

      Sometimes just for fun, I play nature on full heal with poison head. Just for fun.. and u be amazed, I still win on nature - do u know against what? Most of the meta.. everything on plate and medium damage off screen kite...and I loose hard on full dps, sword dagger ..that is on mage robe and fully commits..u cannot outheal that..u can just kill.shit that pokes..but u crippled heal counters that hard

    • RicardoSymilo wrote:

      Trial_hard wrote:

      RicardoSymilo wrote:

      Healers should stack healing sickness not only from Q but other skills as well it could fix dot healer problem
      which dot healer Problem??There is no nature in the Top 1000 of this week infamy..

      So the Problem is if there is one definitely on you..
      my opinion was mainly based about holy staffs experience
      then be precise please.. balance team has already destroyed nature based on feedback whomever they listened..

      And I am afraid they listen again...or do other random things..

    • let me be real and start from the top

      at the start of rise of avalon patch

      holy healers took a Big L with alot of nerfs to holy healer style until the Q1 (generous heal) was buff a little

      infact holy in corrupteds did not become a thing until hallowfall relic became more common which was like 1 month down the line before they became popular

      during that time natures still had the reflect on thorns and they were a pain in the ass to kill even as a bow. never mind a bow of badon just hits him self hard with that E proc on nature thorns

      after direct nerfs to hallowfall like 3 times now and the rearrangement of natures as a healer instead of brawlers people are still losing to healers why?

      corrupted dungeons are balanced around 3 main archtypes brawler/kite/one shot and one is suppose to counter the other on an even ground

      but healers added to the mix change things up alot because healers are consider brawlers which is suppose to die to kite but has so much sustain on the healer builds that healers would just out heal any damage done to them cause kite builds rely on cooldowns and running

      even as a bow i sometimes have problems dealing with natures and holy healers cause of their sustain. and it did not help that hallowfall was as mobile as a bow pre nerf. i can only imagine builds that have less damage then a regular bow struggle to deal with natures and holy healers.

      which brings me to one shot builds. one shot builds were the only answer to holy and nature (or most builds in general who were unlucky enough to mistime their defences). but lets be real. one shot builds against many players are quite gimmick and easily countered with the right items therefore did not see the top of the leaderboards cause good players know how to deal with them through skill and out play

      this made builds like frost who had consistant performance top leaderboard for a long time until the rise of tombhammer which was a one shot build but wore plate armour.

      now after many changes i would say that the patch is now ruled by mobility builds since nature and hallowfall and tombhammer has less power then before
      bring us to the current patch where mobility and kite builds dominate but still run into the occasional meme healer build which they cannot beat for one reason or another. and that is why the crystals is there

      i know it feels very frustrating to fight things like nature and holy and even i refuse to fight them if i saw them cause i know its a waste of time sometimes
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    • normal bow can be beaten with mage robe, badon and warbow can be caught if you have the proper build.
      quaterstaff tombhammer and one shot builds in general is anoying but not unbeatable for a bow user
      frost and blood letter needs skill to beat and is quite an even fight as a bow

      but hallow fall, divine and natures are damn cancerous. even as a regular bow users i can just barely out damage their heal so i pity frost players who lack the damage to kill something like nature and frost who can heal

      i dont know what you play as a main weapon Trial_hard but if you cannot catch kite builds then is your build problem cause you decide to take what you want and the meta just happens counters you.

      1 handed dagger builds works fine against most of the stated builds and so does bows

      but things like hallowfall and tombhammer and natures was too over the top even as a meta is concerned because of how tanky they are with healing (tomb hammer was plate running guardian helm) and there was literally no counter to those weapons who has mobility and/or infinite healing
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      normal bow can be beaten with mage robe, badon and warbow can be caught if you have the proper build.
      quaterstaff tombhammer and one shot builds in general is anoying but not unbeatable for a bow user
      frost and blood letter needs skill to beat and is quite an even fight as a bow

      but hallow fall, divine and natures are damn cancerous. even as a regular bow users i can just barely out damage their heal so i pity frost players who lack the damage to kill something like nature and frost who can heal

      i dont know what you play as a main weapon Trial_hard but if you cannot catch kite builds then is your build problem cause you decide to take what you want and the meta just happens counters you.

      1 handed dagger builds works fine against most of the stated builds and so does bows

      but things like hallowfall and tombhammer and natures was too over the top even as a meta is concerned because of how tanky they are with healing (tomb hammer was plate running guardian helm) and there was literally no counter to those weapons who has mobility and/or infinite healing
      define beat old nature

      What is the objective of CD

      1) none
      2) stay alive
      3) kill the enemy

      Now look at ANY bow that prepares as usually done the kite path

      And now tell me, how high is the chance of a nature to kill you, if your prio is stay alive??

      Unless you get disconnected - 100% that the nature cannot kill you
      Frost + multi vs zero mobility - kill & catch impossible!

      So what happens, you get a free engage on the nature to check if player is skill less or u get a perfect engage..

      And from nature side - no chance to force you into a fight

      Now look back of cd objective. You have the Chance to try the nature, nature has zero chance to catch u unless u stupid

      But nature was op..of course..

      Just it was hard to kill doesn't mean it is OP especially if u look at objective

      Same goes for holy, unless it is hallowfall. But that hallowfall is a major decign accident, heal on 2 x CC + mobility..is a mayor issue, everyone knows that except the balance and play test team ..

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      but things like hallowfall and tombhammer and natures was too over the top even as a meta is concerned because of how tanky they are with healing (tomb hammer was plate running guardian helm) and there was literally no counter to those weapons who has mobility and/or infinite healing
      Nature was never over the top, ive got steamrolled many times by players who know how to deal with Nature, but SBI listened to the whiners and looked probably to much to the top Nature players Onsimee and Dreamthief and make nature a Pve weapon, other weapons like bow and crossbow will follow if the community will cry long enough.

      Anyway, my time in AO is over thanks to nerfteam.

      BTW nobody can have my stuff.

    • Trial hard it is true that if a bow user decides to play staying alive with W and Q natures cannot ever catch bows
      or any mobility build in general cause they are natures who do not have mobility

      but the same is true for bow kite builds unable to kill nature/ holy if they decide to focus on running and healing

      due to their insane healing and mana management. there has been many times where i have to switch my sandals to purity to the mana run or just use scholar sandals for mana just cause nature and holy play like chicken and make me miss E alot giving them time to heal or sometimes outright just out damage me if they saw me missplay even 1 of my defences cause you know nature thorns hit like a bloody truck compared to a bow of badon / warbow basic attack

      since then i dont bother wasting my time against holy and natures cause my bow builds cannot one shot these kind of builds

      my only comfort when i face natures and holy is that the fact their clear speed in corrupteds is trash and my bow of badon/ reg bow can clear twice or 3 times as fast earning me more silver then spending 10-20 minutes of my life fighting a almost immortal healer
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      Trial hard it is true that if a bow user decides to play staying alive with W and Q natures cannot ever catch bows
      or any mobility build in general cause they are natures who do not have mobility

      but the same is true for bow kite builds unable to kill nature/ holy if they decide to focus on running and healing

      due to their insane healing and mana management. there has been many times where i have to switch my sandals to purity to the mana run or just use scholar sandals for mana just cause nature and holy play like chicken and make me miss E alot giving them time to heal or sometimes outright just out damage me if they saw me missplay even 1 of my defences cause you know nature thorns hit like a bloody truck compared to a bow of badon / warbow basic attack

      since then i dont bother wasting my time against holy and natures cause my bow builds cannot one shot these kind of builds

      my only comfort when i face natures and holy is that the fact their clear speed in corrupteds is trash and my bow of badon/ reg bow can clear twice or 3 times as fast earning me more silver then spending 10-20 minutes of my life fighting a almost immortal healer
      so basically u agree, they could not harm you, but you was unable to offscreen kill that's why they needed be removed because u was pissed about the draw..

      Are you aware what you say? You ruined for a population of player their playing experience for pure egocentric reasons, which was a draw - draw means balanced - because u disliked they could achieve a draw on you with a heavy burden anyway..

      Well - that is the spirit of 2021

    • i am trying to kill targets here in pvp. i do not find pleasure in targets that are basicaly immortal that even brawler builds like regular bow and frost have problems killing

      if they regen health naturaly by gainning enough distance then i say its their skill in running
      if they regain health through merc jacket /health potions /old guardian helm i would still find that ok cause they have long cooldowns

      and their heal is quite reasonable at 1000 hp per merc jacket proc / 600hp per healing potion proc and / 400 hp per guardian helm proc and all of them have long cool downs of 1 min, 90 secs and 40 secs
      with such long cooldowns it is till possible to out play them

      but hallowfall that has heals on all 3 abilities on Q heals 500 every 2 seconds, W heals 200 every cast and 500 on E ability
      do you even realize how much healing is that

      natures is worst in the healing department compared to holy but they have thorns which anyone realise does stupid amounts damage enough to compete with actual DPS weapons (talking about pre nerf thorns)

      and since both (nature and holy) just out heals most kite builds and even some brawler builds like bloodletter there is absolutely no point in fighting them at all

      when fighting against kite builds at least the damage you do stick for a while until they get out of combat. and there are plenty of build that can catch up with kite builds and burst them down.
      but not healer builds which seems to counter all given enough time to heal up and this makes kite builds and even some builds one shot tomb hammer and quater staff useless when the healer builds play their defences correctly all because of their healing

      i personaly dont mind gutting healing build with less healing debuff while in the corrupteds similar to how they are doing it in the new hellgates

      if we reduce the healing potential of healer builds and healing on items such as merc jacket and the rest (merc jacket still heals too much in my opinion when combined with spectre hood) i dont mind if nature has the old thorns back just because healing is too broken due to how healing/resistance/damage calculations work in this game

      and i have been saying this many times now. healing numbers in this game is tuned to suit larger scale fights therefore are mostly over tuned when it comes to solo fights.
      healers need such high numbers because in group fights they need to be able to save teamates who 9/10 times gets focused by 3-4 players at any one time
      and these high numbers make it very unbalanced for solo pvp

      and there you have it trial hard. if we reduce healing on all items would kite build such as badon and healer builds be more balanced?
      unless there is a way you think that kite builds that you hate so much would be more balanced while not making healer builds i hate unbalanced

      give me your reply as soon as possible
      Check out My new Albion Online Expansion idea 4 thread:
      https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/143592-Albion-Online-Expansion-Idea-4/

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().