how to: lose 370m in 4 months ; formerly: In order to raise awareness and to protest the sad state of my beloved city of Caerleon - I made crafting cheap. Enjoy it while it lasts and join the movement!

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    • FurFuxAke wrote:

      This post makes me smile.

      Bogul giving a discount to HIS shop users, for the 'good' of albion, is quite amusing. Bogul is arguably one of the richest individuals in this game. He has billions of silver. And this has come from him profiting for years from the economy. Whether it is crafting or labourers. He has made billions.

      He then has tried to make more money from the purchase of plots from Ragefull ( after Ragefull was banned ). This investment has not worked as Bogul had hoped, so he is now trying to recoup as much as he can, before calling it a loss.

      Nothing wrong with any of this. Its the nature of business, economics, and dare i say it, its what makes Bogul so good at this game.

      I found this to be like Jeff Bezos crying that his venture into the Tablet industry hasn't killed off iPad, so he will now lower prices for Amazon Tablets.....poor you, you've made billions already, nice of you to give back a little, on an investment that hasn't worked out for you.

      Your good Bogul, but this was a bit of a weird post. Unless you're running for the US presidential race, this wont wash on many ppl.

      I have noted you have a tendancy to market your 'services' as always to be for the benefit of the general players of Albion, when in reality it is ALWAYS predominantly for your personal benefit. You are not some sort of philanthropist, You are a venture capitalist. And you are good at it, but please stop making out this whole nonsense about how you're hurting because of the state of Caerlon... come on dude, be real for once.

      'Exposing the Devil is the game of Angels' - Dan Brown

      :FFS:
      Well, easy to achieve success when the system works for you and if it does not, then the system will be changed...
    • Bogul wrote:

      Femke wrote:

      Bogul wrote:

      JitaJones wrote:

      BOgul = SBI?

      Femke wrote:

      I also remember chatting with you on your stream how you undercut everyone selling bags on the black market so you control about 90% of the BM volume.
      Hmmm...SBI control BM like in EVE online ?
      No, I'm not SBI.I had low hopes for this thread. Yikes guys. 90% of my bags on the BM are stuck. Not sure if that counts as "controling".
      After two big nerfs the BM is now shit, I am talking about more than a year ago. You'll be lying if you say that you didn't undercut for high volume when the BM was buying bags in UNGODLY amounts. They also nerfed bags specifically few months ago so I can see why you have your bags stuck, considering how many refining and crafting alts you have from the glory days :) And thank god you're not SBI, although they do some questionable stuff to profit (which I completely understand since they are a REAL company that has to generate income).
      The price level at which the BM buys is super simple supply / demand based on player pve activity and some value set by the devs how often a certain item drop.
      Due to the history of how profitable bags where for a good long time and how cheap it was and still is to max out bag / cape crafters compared to other professions, there is an oversupply of maxed out characters specifically made for bag / cape crafting.

      The funny part is, that because of the silver already invested into premium for these characters it makes more sense in some funny edgecases to craft and sell for a loss than to stop using the character at all. But thats assuming your time is worth more than like 10s per focus or something.

      Anyway. Most crafting professions, maxing out a tree have a return of investment time of a few months to half a year by now. If you have the endurance to power through that you are getting more money than you invest by simply crafting with focus over the long-term, at which you essentially play for free. The problem ofc is coughing up the 50m - 300m+ it takes to push a crafting alt (and you know, 100m - 150m for a laborer island on top).

      Its a grind though and with the players, alts and knowledge maturing in Albion the true margins on some items have come down a lot in the recent year or two. In the beginning (1st year after launch or so) it was profitable to craft items without using focus and simply by calculating in 150% returns from books, you could essentially push a crafting tree without losing much at all. I'm talking maybe a few mil silver or even 20m-30m if you aren't patient.

      Today that isn't possible in may markets anymore. However if you really try and assume a max spec character, you are still making easy 10% or 20% margins on most items. Capped by your daily focus. Assuming 60k for an item (say a 8.0 helmet), where by you have a 10% profit margin = 6k and a focus cost of 203 per item, thats 10.000 / 203 = 49 ; that multiplied by say 28 days a month and 6k pure profit, you're still making 8.25m and you've paid for most expenses. But yeah, putting the 8.25m into paying off your initial investment, you're looking at 6+ months ; many more months in most cases. Not very inviting if you want a quick turnaround on money.

      The barrier of entry is a bit higher to get into the crafting game right now, because you essentially require a large upfront investment with a long ROI tail to break even, which to many - rightfully so - is not a real consideration, if you can't commit to playing albion at least once every 3 days for half a year.

      And of course trying to just re-invest your profits from crafting with low spec into getting more spec is hilariously dumb. Which is kind of sad, because many people really want to progress through crafting. I would go so far and say that it is better to find a guild, fame dungeons and rely on ganking / pve drops for premium / expenses than trying to make a profit from your focus. Later on, if you get lucky and find a T8 relic or something, you just dump that into maxing one one single profession and nothing else and then once you spent 500m on maxing out one crafting tree and building that T8 island, you're good to play for free for the rest of your albion career.

      Anyway. None of this changes the fact that building ownership in Albion is currently very meh and could be so much better.
      Although I almost totally agree with your opinion on alt crafting and all (if its profitable to craft without focus then spec-ing up an alt is profitable and easy as well), it still doesn't touch the point of you undercutting everyone to get BM volume from all the crafters that you now feel so generous towards. I am becoming more and more convinced that you just happened to have a 4x plot that you couldn't sell and decided to do this marketing thing to get crafters on your stations, hoping to stay after you raise rates when FF update hits. Anyways, good luck with your endeavour, which can absolutely fail if you're the only owner with 7% rates in the city since you run out of capacity (as shown in the previous ownership cycle by VRisk).
    • Aurin wrote:

      So the point of this thread is 1 guy is going to lose a billion to cause someone else to lose 2+ billion?

      Bunch of clowns.
      No, they are very serious business people. They have suitcases and everything. Not clown like at all. I mean who wouldn't want to own a plot in the booming metropolis that is Caerleon. These are not the sort of people to trifle with. Show some respect.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
      Demon Lord - UwU
    • Piddle wrote:

      Aurin wrote:

      So the point of this thread is 1 guy is going to lose a billion to cause someone else to lose 2+ billion?

      Bunch of clowns.
      No, they are very serious business people. They have suitcases and everything. Not clown like at all. I mean who wouldn't want to own a plot in the booming metropolis that is Caerleon. These are not the sort of people to trifle with. Show some respect.
    • Femke wrote:

      Just to put things in perspective:

      Rageful got banned and his plots were just maintained by his co-owners until the action for plots ended.
      Bogul bid on the 4x plot that Rageful had and got it for cheap (for about 200mil, don't remember exactly).
      Bogul tried to sell that plot for 400mil initially and when he saw that there wasn't really a buyer for that price he lowered it to 300mil.
      After a week, there was no buyer for the price of 300mil as well so Bogul decided to give back to the city.

      Good initiative but it should've came before you tried to squeeze 100mil+ profits from those plots after you got them, this now looks as an outcome of your failure to sell the plots on profit. I also remember chatting with you on your stream how you undercut everyone selling bags on the black market so you control about 90% of the BM volume.

      Operating stations at 7% is not a sustainable strategy, Bogul know that as well. Crafters will enjoy this but ultimately it will end. When VOC tried to go against Vasort's cartel he went for a 15% rate which was low enough for the crafters but also ensured he is not losing money. I also own plots in Caerleon and I know how much the volume is and that 7% is not sustainable strategy, its more like a PR thing for Bogul's image.

      To put things in perspective:

      Owning plots in Caerleon is generally a bad idea, there are always new owners who think that they are smarter than everyone else and that they will get rich by undercutting. The outcome of this is that owners undercut each other until they reach 7% which is generating enough money just to cover the food cost, not the bid amount that is due on the next auction. Therefore, after each bidding cycle there are two options:

      1. Opportunistic owners and low, unsustainable rates
      2. Agreement (cartel) by the owners and high rates.

      While everyone is rioting against plot owners when prices are high, they do not look at this into perspective. As an owner, you lose because people were opportunistic and cannot agree on a rate that everyone keeps. In the next ownership cycle you would want to recoup the losses, setting higher than optimal rates. I almost never turned down anyone who asked me for associates rates on my stations and my associate rates were initially 15%, generating a small profit. Later on, new owners came and tried to undercut everyone and rates went lose and I lost money. Following that, my associate rates were 20% which in the end averaged about 15% associate rate on my stations in the those two cycles. While there is definitely a cartel in every city, it is actually needed to a certain degree since owners need to agree on rates and diamond hand them in order to be profitable. I personally just like having chests full of resources next to my stations so I don't have to run from an island with multiple characters. This is the main reason why I have crafting stations, but I will also not run them on a long-term loss just because of such convenience.

      Therefore, these 7% stations that Bogul now runs at a loss will ultimately result in higher rates because the "local landlord" will want to recoup losses or the plot ownership system has to change. While it may sound noble and selfless, it will drive economically weak owners out of business and not the "local landlord".
      In the beginning, the plot ownership system was nicely designed to set up a cartel and when SBI changed that they made it in a way that it cycles between 7% and cartel rates.

      In the end, equilibrium prices are more or less achieved. Any reader with a few braincells can realize that running stations on 7% will not actually change things and will only result in a few low rate cycles until Bogul decides to not bother anymore or other owners outbid him and agree on higher rates. Mark my words, come again after few months and see what happens. It is also highly possible that Bogul has information about future changes that will benefit him if he runs this PR campaign now that will attract crafters to his stations, who knows.

      All in all, if you want a real change and sustainable lower rates, ask SBI to rework the city plot system and don't rely on charity coming from money-obsessed people.
      He's betting on the new faction changes boosting player numbers in Caerleon.
    • Okay... @Bogul u changing the tax from 9% to 6% is supposed to be a big deal ?

      You been flexing since ever that one of the best and easiest money makers is to flip plots.

      Last month u flipped 3 "a plots" for 120kk total profit and the month b4 2 for 80kk

      YES, people have divided Caerleon into 4 sections lmao

      IDK why u put 270kk on that plot which is not worth even 190kk but obviously u failed to flip it. that plot wasnt worth 400kk on the summer xD.

      If u are that discontent use 7 billions and buy the whole city, thats all it will take.

      Instead of adding a few buildings to ur failed flip (10kk "for the people", lets give u that, since u get most resources back ) USE THOSE ALLEGED BILLIONS u say u want to spend for the good of caerleon

      President of Caerleon for 7 billions, JUST DO IT
    • Heslas4 wrote:

      Okay... @Bogul u changing the tax from 9% to 6% is supposed to be a big deal ?

      You been flexing since ever that one of the best and easiest money makers is to flip plots.

      Last month u flipped 3 "a plots" for 120kk total profit and the month b4 2 for 80kk

      YES, people have divided Caerleon into 4 sections lmao

      IDK why u put 270kk on that plot which is not worth even 190kk but obviously u failed to flip it. that plot wasnt worth 400kk on the summer xD.

      If u are that discontent use 7 billions and buy the whole city, thats all it will take.

      Instead of adding a few buildings to ur failed flip (10kk "for the people", lets give u that, since u get most resources back ) USE THOSE ALLEGED BILLIONS u say u want to spend for the good of caerleon

      President of Caerleon for 7 billions, JUST DO IT
      not even worth 190kk
    • Why is the defense bid so high? I read on the wiki that the owner gets an ownership advantage. This makes owning a plot cheaper for subsequent cycles, right? Since you can bid a little over half the normal value and still win, thus lowering next cycle's ownership cost? Not sure if that would bring you into the green overall considering the scale of the losses here.

      You bought for 277M. I'd think a 150M defense bid (which would count as 300,000,001) would be sufficient to retain the plot, right?


      An important mechanic of the land auctions system is the ownership advantage.
      The current owner of a building plot will receive a 100% +1 Silver bonus on any bids he makes to defend his plot.
    • Obsoletion wrote:

      Why is the defense bid so high? I read on the wiki that the owner gets an ownership advantage. This makes owning a plot cheaper for subsequent cycles, right? Since you can bid a little over half the normal value and still win, thus lowering next cycle's ownership cost? Not sure if that would bring you into the green overall considering the scale of the losses here.

      You bought for 277M. I'd think a 150M defense bid (which would count as 300,000,001) would be sufficient to retain the plot, right?


      An important mechanic of the land auctions system is the ownership advantage.
      The current owner of a building plot will receive a 100% +1 Silver bonus on any bids he makes to defend his plot.

      The assumption was people would bid more for it because the timeframe falls into the CTA update window and because it's annoying and ruining profits to have one guy run 6% taxes. -> higher potential bids for it

      But I was wrong appareantly. In the end its to make sure I get to keep the plot. ;)