Hideout Home Changes (Power Projection)

    • Curious to see what it will change.

      IMHO, a problem with the HO is due to cluster's timer distribution in the black zone. Clusters with the same timer are neighbor to each others. So your army/guild/alliance/coalition can cover them all with a single big army. Exactly as it was with castles previously.
      =>
      If clusters with the same timer happened to be much more spread around the black zone, the power projection would have less significance since it would be to fight for one or two clusters and not a full area of 5/6 or even more clusters at once.

      @Zorn
      Since the change which spread castles around BZ worked pretty well, why not doing the same for cluster's prime time ?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by grul ().

    • grul wrote:

      Curious to see what it will change.

      IMHO, a problem with the HO is due to cluster's timer distribution in the black zone. Clusters with the same timer are neighbor to each others. So your army/guild/alliance/coalition can cover them all with a single big army. Exactly as it was with castles previously.
      =>
      If clusters with the same timer happened to be much more spread around the black zone, the power projection would have less significance since it would be to fight for one or two clusters and not a full area of 5/6 or even more clusters at once.

      @Zorn
      Since the change which spread castles around BZ worked pretty well, why not doing the same for cluster's prime time ?
      When they remade the blackzone I was hoping they would get to this point not having all the same timers grouped together because well I thought that was the whole point of the New Blackzone but really they only changed the layout but not the overall design of how its layed out and I believe this was their biggest mistake. I totally agree there shouldn't be so many zones grouped together with the same timers, At most there should be only 2 zones next to each other with the same timers, Though there shouldn't be EU timers next to NA, It should be split up into the EU and NA timers like.... You take the group of 18 UTC terris lets say there is 4 terris grouped together on an 18 UTC timer change 2 of the 18 UTC's to 20 UTC so that 2 are 18 and 2 are 20 UTC timers then the same goes for other groups. Say that there is 6 0 UTC zones grouped together make 2 0 UTC, 2 3 UTC and the last 2 at 5 UTC.... This would allow more fights to happen I believe and split up fights also because you will need to send some of your forces to other locations. Having 4 zones or more grouped together on the same timers makes it very easy for large alliances to take the whole group by blocking access to the other zones with such a large force. If that large force had to split up and run to different parts of the map to take the same UTC timers it will force them to spread if they want to keep a large amount of terri's....

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Neef ().

    • I don't really care much, so hopefully unbiased opinion but patch discussed does not really balance HOs in any way, limitation to setting lock does nothing and it will be the same as it was

      - Hideouts outside avalonian roads are broken, they can be placed next to safe areas (i.e passages), and there are too many per map, so players just safely travel in a bubble from one HO to another and then immediately to passage.
      - Avalonian roads on another hand solve this pretty nicely, they make HOs a limited resource, and the positions of those are fixed, making abuses less of a problem


      All of the above, kills the opportunities for encounters in black-zones and defeats the sensation of danger, which one should normally expect from a black zone.

      Probably some of you noticed these issues, as I see this being brought up in the comments as well, so until more bold changes are done, nothing will change with that regard, issue is still open I think.
    • Why don't you guys make it so there are escalating costs for hideouts?

      Limiting to 3-5 hideouts may be too limiting for very large guilds. But you have a system for guild islands where the cost doubles with each upgrade, why not do the same for hideouts? Make the first hideout cheap and accessible so small guilds can also participate in lategame outlands content, the second more expensive etc... until having hideouts becomes prohibitively expensive. Perhaps also have the cost scale up for total hideouts in the given alliance to avoid alt guild exploitation.

      This will force larger guilds to place their hideouts strategically and you wont have zones where its an absolute joke with 15 hideouts on the map. A small guild starting out in the outlands doesn't stand a chance, Avalon is similar, you have zones that have been completely invaded by ARCH for example with 9 hideouts placed on it, and any guild who would want to compete for the map would get obliterated because the enemy has 9 times the respawn capacity.

      If this system was implemented, you might get one or two such zones, but it wouldn't be very commonplace. Right now even t5 -t6 zones are ridiculously spammed with hideouts from big alliances, leaving no chance for any other guild but to join and clutter more or simply skip out on that content.
    • about what limiting we are talking about.. u have 6 zones from city to any rest.'
      even 1 HO in middle of way is a huuuge break point..
      now we got 3-9 ho per zone, PER ZONE..
      Hideouts should be something like TERRI 1 building which can be caped like terri or something, force people fight for it to get 1 extra safe point in BZ.
      the rest should be terri. no more afk in BZ inside HO..
    • Rather than just continually refining what there already is, why not focus instead on introducing new elements to the game? Keep HO's as they are and introduce "mini" hideouts for smaller guilds that can only be used by a certain number of people. Introduce lots of other buildings that can be put down, like shield generators, Inns, places of worship, outposts and full-on castles. Build out the blue zones in the black zone to be actual destinations, have tunnel networks so that guilds and alliances could link up different buildings. Fidgeting around with some code to balance existing elements is taking time, effort and energy from actually building out the game.
    • WHIT3ROS3 wrote:

      Rather than just continually refining what there already is, why not focus instead on introducing new elements to the game? Keep HO's as they are and introduce "mini" hideouts for smaller guilds that can only be used by a certain number of people. Introduce lots of other buildings that can be put down, like shield generators, Inns, places of worship, outposts and full-on castles. Build out the blue zones in the black zone to be actual destinations, have tunnel networks so that guilds and alliances could link up different buildings. Fidgeting around with some code to balance existing elements is taking time, effort and energy from actually building out the game.
      GOD NO!! NO ADDITIONAL HIDEOUTS ARE NEEDED !!!!

      Existing ones are the problem, we need less HOs if anything.
      If you want safe zones, there are huge yellow, blue and red maps.

      Really no need to put safe zone everywhere. There are already WAY too many safe zones, shires, passages, and massive amount of HOs next to such zones. Basically black-zones are almost like yellow or blue, you die if you make a stupid mistake only. You can just horse through zerg half on bubble and still get away if you dont hit anyone. It is ridiculously safe, not what these maps are meant to be.

      I will repeat what I said in other thread

      At least (minimum) is required to
      • Limit the number of hideouts per map to lower number
      • Limit the positions where hideouts can be build (i.e not next to the safe passage that gives bubble)
      • Limit the number of players that can enter the HO at the same time (maximum capacity)
      • Limit the number of HOs that can be build AND used by the guild / alliance
      • Entering a different hideout should reset home setting
      • Progress bar for entering hideout (entering should NOT be instant)
      • Entering and leaving over and over should not give bubble for longer time each time this is done
      • Each player should have access to only single hideout per map (choose wisely), whether you are HG player or gatherer.


      Changing home-settings does nothing for the current problem with HOs. Avalonian roads solve some of these issues nicely by having only fixed locations where HO can be build, make it more difficult to abuse it.
    • Mashoo wrote:

      WHIT3ROS3 wrote:

      Rather than just continually refining what there already is, why not focus instead on introducing new elements to the game? Keep HO's as they are and introduce "mini" hideouts for smaller guilds that can only be used by a certain number of people. Introduce lots of other buildings that can be put down, like shield generators, Inns, places of worship, outposts and full-on castles. Build out the blue zones in the black zone to be actual destinations, have tunnel networks so that guilds and alliances could link up different buildings. Fidgeting around with some code to balance existing elements is taking time, effort and energy from actually building out the game.
      GOD NO!! NO ADDITIONAL HIDEOUTS ARE NEEDED !!!!
      You are thinking too small. This would all go along with a massive map expansion and other stuff. You just see the game for what it is right now, I'm talking about what it could be.
      [/quote]
    • Lo que veo que buscan siempre lo favorable a los que levan años jugando este juego y a los nuevos no les deja oportunidad a nada y la gente entra ve que los viven matando los que están full y dejan de jugar la comunidad se volvió toxica y solo piensan en matar al mas débil ya que en un enfrentamiento real huyen...
      las nuevas mecánicas se probaran.
      y sacar los tiempos de las mazmorras no es bueno ya que siempre tiendas a 10 entrando a matar a 1...
      como lo ves a menudo.
      la desigualdad en combate se ve a menudo con los grandes gremios matando a gente que ni gremio tiene y en que termina que abandonen este juego era para tener mucho mas millones de personas pero por la manera de juego que implementa y favorece a los que matan a otros no lo tienen
    • Guilefulwolf wrote:

      Guilefulwolf wrote:

      Just limit it to only one hide out per cluster and put a cooldown of at least 24 hours to change your home after setting it somewhere else.
      Actually, Limit it to only one hide out per cluster and put a cooldown of 7 days to change your home after setting it somewere else.
      LOL 1 HO per cluster and small guilds complain now about not being able to place a HO, If you could only place 1 per map you can be damn sure big alliances will never let a small guild have an HO.
    • Neef wrote:

      Guilefulwolf wrote:

      Guilefulwolf wrote:

      Just limit it to only one hide out per cluster and put a cooldown of at least 24 hours to change your home after setting it somewhere else.
      Actually, Limit it to only one hide out per cluster and put a cooldown of 7 days to change your home after setting it somewere else.
      LOL 1 HO per cluster and small guilds complain now about not being able to place a HO, If you could only place 1 per map you can be damn sure big alliances will never let a small guild have an HO.
      I support Guilefulwolf one hideout is "too much" for black zones, a hideout should be one in several zones as an extra safe place, players should fight for..
      I do not understand the concept of "rests", why add them, if everyone has 3,000,000 hiding places anyway .. another redundant place with so many hiding places.



      Neef wrote:

      LOL 1 HO per cluster and small guilds complain now about not being able to place a HO
      who said that everything has to be fair, in sandbox I always thought that the stronger has more, but with limited hiding places people will not need hiding places, there is "rest" and most of all thousands of people who are now sitting in hiding places will be forced to play and moving around which brings BZ to life .. hence people will have more things to do ..
    • Neef wrote:

      Guilefulwolf wrote:

      Guilefulwolf wrote:

      Just limit it to only one hide out per cluster and put a cooldown of at least 24 hours to change your home after setting it somewhere else.
      Actually, Limit it to only one hide out per cluster and put a cooldown of 7 days to change your home after setting it somewere else.
      LOL 1 HO per cluster and small guilds complain now about not being able to place a HO, If you could only place 1 per map you can be damn sure big alliances will never let a small guild have an HO.
      Since we are discussing power projection. Currently, big guild spam multiple HOs on better terrains for themselves to secure the area. So we end-up with HOs placed next to safe zones, passages, rest, terrains etc.. Sometimes they mercifully permit smaller guilds (which in fact could have HO in the avalonian roads supposedly meant for them), to place a HO on shitty terrain in exchange for not small fee (get scammed) and defending terrain so big can grow bigger. You end up still with a map full of HOs, in areas that are abusing game mechanics. Usually bigger having access to all of them.
      Safe zones should be blue, yellow, red zones, why do we even have safe zones in black-zones.

      At this point if you flag yourself, players seeking this special sensation of danger will have that in red-zones more easily than in black-zones, and with coming amazing factions re-work (not a sarcasm I am truly excited about that expansion), black-zones will be dead as mostly crafting areas only spammed by HOs, which no one has intentions or incentives to conquer. Not just because they belong to big guild, but because there is not much going on there of for PvP oriented players.

      Currently, black-zones are very extremely in favor of not-PvP player base, which are not all Albion players. People play Albion and not other MMO because it stands out, and what makes it stand out are not safe-zones for gathering and crafting typical to every MMO, but quite rare PvP experience.
      Add more hideouts and safe-zones and some people will be glad to move to another game.
    • Can we just go back to how it was in beta? You guys absolutely blew it with hideouts. They suck. We need to go back to territories with barriers like we had in the beta. Aka, player islands build zones but within red and black zones etc. that are protected by a colored barrier that only guild members can pass through. Same system as before, you need to defend them from attacks.

      Hideouts are just a joke. They serve no strategic purpose at all except to get as many as you can within a general area and basically build a max level repair in them and use the bank for storing shit to cart to Royals. They are a pain in the ass to attack and they are located in shit areas in maps.
      I don't speak for anyone else but honestly these things are so fucking boring and have no place in the game. We gave them a good run, now it's time to go back to what actually worked and made people excited.

      For anyone who doesn't know what I am talking about, I mean these:

      These were epic. This was the golden age of the game. Lining up outside one of these areas to wage war on people was the shit. If you didn't experience that, I feel bad for you. Those territories you had a real feeling of "ownership" to them.

      Also bring back shrines in resource zones. Those were awesome. Make people fight for stuff again. I can't for the life of me understand why you decided to remove these from the game in favour of hideouts and having like 3 of those to a map? Just because there are a lot more people playing now, doesn't mean that everyone needs a hideout in the black zone. Fuck them off and bring back singular territories, give them a resource or decay bonus or something to make up for people not having 3 hideouts any more if you must.

      Devs go watch some of the videos like the one I just linked above. This is what people like myself paid 100€ to buy into. Not this massive hideout and Avalonian road "safe space" nonsense.

      This one might be an unpopular opinion but since when was the game about allowing people to have guild clusters of like 10k people all in the same "guild/alliance"? and end up owning entire areas of the map like this:



      I thought it was about making people think strategically about their assets and what zones they want because if they lost one, they were kicked right out of BZ.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Cursewords ().

    • Neef wrote:

      grul wrote:

      Curious to see what it will change.

      IMHO, a problem with the HO is due to cluster's timer distribution in the black zone. Clusters with the same timer are neighbor to each others. So your army/guild/alliance/coalition can cover them all with a single big army. Exactly as it was with castles previously.
      =>
      If clusters with the same timer happened to be much more spread around the black zone, the power projection would have less significance since it would be to fight for one or two clusters and not a full area of 5/6 or even more clusters at once.

      @Zorn
      Since the change which spread castles around BZ worked pretty well, why not doing the same for cluster's prime time ?
      When they remade the blackzone I was hoping they would get to this point not having all the same timers grouped together because well I thought that was the whole point of the New Blackzone but really they only changed the layout but not the overall design of how its layed out and I believe this was their biggest mistake. I totally agree there shouldn't be so many zones grouped together with the same timers, At most there should be only 2 zones next to each other with the same timers, Though there shouldn't be EU timers next to NA, It should be split up into the EU and NA timers like.... You take the group of 18 UTC terris lets say there is 4 terris grouped together on an 18 UTC timer change 2 of the 18 UTC's to 20 UTC so that 2 are 18 and 2 are 20 UTC timers then the same goes for other groups. Say that there is 6 0 UTC zones grouped together make 2 0 UTC, 2 3 UTC and the last 2 at 5 UTC.... This would allow more fights to happen I believe and split up fights also because you will need to send some of your forces to other locations. Having 4 zones or more grouped together on the same timers makes it very easy for large alliances to take the whole group by blocking access to the other zones with such a large force. If that large force had to split up and run to different parts of the map to take the same UTC timers it will force them to spread if they want to keep a large amount of terri's....

      It seems to go slowly in the good direction ;p.
      the S12 patch note where hideout regain only 1 shield instead of all might help to decongestion a bit the big fight.
      But yes.