Feedback on 20v20 crystal league - please share your own experience

    • 20v20 Crystal League

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • Feedback on 20v20 crystal league - please share your own experience

      Hello everyone,

      I would like to write little bit about my experience with 20v20 so far. The goal is to ensure developers are aware of the situation and act accordingly if something is not as per their desire. Also, I'd like to reach out to the community that plays cgvg, mostly I'd like to hear out level1 teams because I believe there is not enough incentive for them to play level 2. As we can see in below screen, we have 2-5 matches daily on level 2, which is quite low number and more teams (like our) are pretty much doomed if the incentive to create more 20v20 teams will not be increased. As per my understanding - the whole idea about 20v20 CGVG was to open the content to more players compared to a city gvg mode. As it is fresh it is still pretty fine, exclusive but way more played and contested than 20v20 city gvg. However I feel the peak is already behind and the future will only decline the 20v20 team base.




      So this whole post will be related to the basic question I have - are we able to create more incentive for the whole server to create more teams or create more diversified tiers so that more teams can naturally evolve in full loot 20v20 mode?



      Let me start with short introduction of myself and my experience so far:

      I am co-leader of one local guild - Avium, we are small guild having around 40-50 active players, no alliance, no territory just having fun with the game in a pretty unique way than most of other guilds in the game. We decided to heavily invest our resources into 20v20 league, being one of main content of our guild where we really challenge ourselves against other 'teams' in the game. I must admit - 20v20 is one of the best things that happened to Albion, all of our players have fun with it and I will support my guild's team as long as we have more fun than negative emotions about it.
      So far we have played around 40-45 matches both in level 1 and level2, so 1/3rd of the most active players (source). Previously, 90% of our members did not have any experience in 5v5 cgvg above level 3, so let's say we start from scratch, even though most of our players have been active in open world pvp since the release. We have pretty much perfect winratio on level 1, except for the top teams that play level 2 and warm up on the level1. It is really important to understand we are not giving UP any time soon, we are actually doing nice progress. This post is my personal incentive as I am closely watching participation of guilds in this content and I could see already many teams that I thought will survive it, but only after a month they simply died not passing entry floor.

      So to sum up, we are a novice local guild, that creates its own team not having any merc players, budgeting our team from guild bank (having 0 income as guild) that challenged itself to create 20v20 team and have fun with that content. So basically our story is probably explaining why only the best teams in the server can sustain and everyone else will stop playing sooner or later.

      What is our biggest challenge in creating 20v20 team:

      1. Lack of tiers, there's only challenger/diamond tier played, very high entry floor for new teams/low incentive to participate in that content.

      So far, out of 10+ level 2 matches we played, we've won three times. Two teams that we have beaten are already disbanded and one team is still in our reach however just like US, they switched to scrim more than actually play level 2. The only enemies we get are top teams created by international players, not even guild-based but more like inter-guild teams. Those teams have naturally evolved from City GvG teams and consist of the best 5v5 cgvg players. For us - contenders, it is really challenging to do steps forward having like 90% chance to fight against such a team in a full-loot combat, however there is no other way to fix basic issues and learn how to play the game on that level.

      Possible solution:
      Unfortunately the only solution would be somehow increasing number of teams/increasing incentive to play 20v20.

      One idea would be having level 3 daily, that is covering level 2 timer, just like in 5v5. So best teams will get more rewards and more competition playing level 3, with higher IP cap and more risk. While level 2 would lower entry-level for the level1 teams while still being full loot. That could really bring some freshness and ensure this content will not die in few weeks/months as I do predict such lifecycle path ATM based on my personal experience.

      Unfortunately that comes with a great risk of having no-shows, currently there are only few matches per timer, the risk of having no-show at level 2 is counted in dozens (XX%) implementing that would make it even higher. How to counter that? IDK, increasing rewards for no-shows in 20v20?? I don't really have perfect solution, just trying to throw random ideas here and there maybe inspiring developer or another community member to write something smart that would enable more level1 teams to play level 2.

      Another very controversial idea, would be making 20v20cgvg alliance-limited. Which means you can't merc players outside of your alliance, making very strong inter-guild teams that are not allied because of open-world politic reasons (like abusing alliance limitations etc.) I won't really write a lot because that would bring unnecessary heat from such teams and I only want this content to be a success. I think that could little bit lower entry level and increase incentive for more guilds to participate in such content, plus would be another incentive to stay in a regular alliance instead of having mega-NAPs in the game.


      2. Economy.

      IP cap on level 2 is 1100. Which means, most of the items are very cheap, except for avalonian artifacts which are currently heavily in the meta. Usually having a level 2 versus top team, with 5 deaths makes us die around 20-40 times before we give up. Usually we lose around 20~ robe of purity, hallowfall and other valuable items. Of course, many will tell - if you can't afford then play level 1. But level 2 is full loot and only having full loot gives you really the feeling you have won something or it was worth to invest so much resources and time to find yourself in that position. Non-loot combat is basically only a step to contest in full loot combat.

      Approximate cost of refunds (not everyone apply for the refund) is around 20-25 millions per match. Which means, our guild that has completely no income has to support our team with 100m weekly. This would be completely different if the tiers were here, but even though including rewards from level 1 and those few level 2's we have actually won - we are bleeding money which creates the need of switching to scrims instead of participating in 20v20 level 2 daily. That itself will lower the match-number of levels 2 and increase no shows for the best teams as well. I understand that building 20v20 requires either winning or having strong economy backup (not really worth the season points as you are mostly losing due to the lack of tiers) but still, 20-25m is way too much to pay for this content daily for most of the guilds in the game.

      The rewards do not really cover the cost of participation in level2 cgvg even if you go even (so let's say you both lose sets and loot enemies eventually winning). I believe only few teams do make money on this content and those teams play levels 3 and 4 during the weekend, not hard to reach out to them to confirm that.

      What could be changed to lower the economy requirement to maintain 20v20 team.

      One thing could be lowering price of T4 artifact pieces. Maybe shifting some IP from avalonian items so that lower tiered items have lower IP even though being avalonian items just like any lower-level artifacts/normal items. Currently avalonian items are used in cgvg, zvz, open world pvp, fame farm, avalonian farm, HCE so basically everywhere. I can understand it's part of 'income strategy' by SBI, but IMO cgvg level 2 costs way too much and is an impossible wall to jump through for most of the level-1 teams. Some of them already gave up some of them will give up sooner or later as they realize that. As this would affect whole game and SBI's silver sink it needs to be reviewed if it's even possible to implement.

      Another ideas could be giving way more rewards for losing match, currently we get nothing for showing up, investing time in training, doing our best to contest against the best teams. And even my guild will survive this phase - it will deny most of the 'contending' level 1 teams to try themselves in level2 before giving up on 20v20. This comes with a great risk of having teams that would only sign up to cash out the 'losing reward', so there should be some additional condition to get it, like get 10 points or kill X players. At this point, I would like this idea to be consulted with best teams, to understand their situation in 20v20, maybe it's enough if they just collect every few days donations from guilds like mine. This point would really support those teams who are too good for level1 and too bad for level 2 like mine.

      3. Season rewards

      I think the effort to maintain 20v20 prosperous team is way higher than having multiple 5v5 teams. I believe 20v20 should be way more important in terms of season challenge, especially that everything else (including outpost fights) is dominated by mega-alliances atm. This could be really one of few places where small guilds stand chance against mega naps. So i believe we could little bit increase number of points collected in 20v20 cgvg, especially in level 2 battles. Risk vs Reward balance pls.



      With this said, I encourage everyone to share their experience, especially people who already stopped playing or feel like level 2 is beyond their possibility (explain reasons why), even though they love the contend and would love to become a level 2 cgvg guild/team.


      I hope this will be a healthy discussion, I know it looks like crying to many but if you read my above explanation I would only like to see more teams competing against us in level 2 matches! Regardless of the situation, see you guys in the arena!!!

      Cheers,
      glokz

      The post was edited 10 times, last by glokz ().

    • My team does lvl1 everyday, we tried to do lvl2s, but theres like no reward compared to lvl1 and 200x more risk, and its putting a strain on people with losing 5+ sets per person, right now you only face top teams .

      like a budget build is around 300k, flat6 gear, faction cape(100k) (5 t7 res pots + food) another 100k

      so we do lvl2 biweekly during lvl4s to even have a chance and meet similar teams and it doesnt put financial strain on some people on daily basis getting stomped


      Like after doing some lvl2s in the start, lots of people stopped showing for them because of dying lol

      The post was edited 1 time, last by tabooshka ().

    • The issue in general is that artifacts, avalonian gear, and faction capes are META, and super expensive.
      So most of the cool stuff is a no-go for new players, witch is a shame, because most of them leave.
      I do hope that the upcoming faction changes will bring cheaper capes, so even new players can enjoy them, and put them on a more competitive level, and not in a economic ruin as it is now.
      Oh ya don't me started with the whole 700 spec thing witch is also imbalanced on so many levels.
    • I think you'd see more teams doing L1 if you removed a bunch of the top tier teams from L1. Right now because they happen at different timers, most of the best teams are also in the L1 queue to warm up & get the easy win. It needs to be like the Crystal GvG's where L1,2,3 all happen at the same time, and sometimes you have higher tiers.

      Regarding gear costs, yeah it's pretty crazy that for many sets there's one single piece that costs more than the rest of the set combined. A suggestion:

      Create Tier 3 Relic/Avalonian/Faction capes that are much cheaper to obtain and maybe lock them to use only in the Crystal league.
    • I'm on Laugh94s team (the ZonedOut team). I've played almost every NA timer since the start of the season, and a few of the EU ones as well (just so you understand where I'm coming from). Just want to add my thoughts to yours.

      Mytherceria. Please please PLEASE ask them to make both level 1 and level 2 20v20 crystals playable at both timers. Level 1 crystals are just a complete faceroll for any decent team (we've lost ONE lvl 1 since the start of the season that I can remember, and it was against arguably the best team in the game). There is a huge divide between lvl 1 teams, and lvl 2+ teams, but lvl 2+ teams queue up for Lvl 1s anyways, because there is no other content available at that timer. It does absolutely no service to anyone to have us steamrolling a lvl 1 team 100-140+ kills to 10-20 every day. It's not particularly fun for us, it's not even particularly worthwhile practice, and it's DEFINITELY not fun for our opponents.


      > 1. Lack of tiers, there's only challenger/diamond tier played, very high entry floor for new teams/low incentive to participate in that content.

      Agreed. It's better than City GvG by miles, but there's definitely a issue whereby top tier teams are signing up for lvl 1s and just steamrolling. Adding lvl 2s at every timer would be a good start. I think having level 3s twice a week, as an opportunity for weaker teams to do an 'easy' lvl 2 timer, might help as well.
      Ultimately though, the answer to this is somewhat just 'git gud'. Unless the population of players DRASTICALLY increases in this mode, the odds of a team that isn't top 5 or so having much success beyond lvl 2 is pretty low. Definitely some small tweaks that can be done to make it a bit easier though.


      > One idea would be having level 3 daily, that is covering level 2 timer, just like in 5v5.

      I don't think that there are enough lvl 2+ teams to really support this. Maybe in EU, DEFINITELY not in NA. (We've gotten the same team, iirc, 3 days in a row in NA now for our lvl 2.) I think we could do lvl 3s twice a week, like sat+sun, or something like that, probably not every day. The number of no-shows for both lvl 2s and 3s would be nuts.

      > 2. Economy.

      I hear you, I'm not sure what can be said besides 'stop losing/don't be poor'. Okay, I'll agree that the silver rewards from the crystals are *abysmal*. I'm not sure what the point of even having them is they are so low. They don't even cover my respec costs from popping the T8 tomes. They could stand to be *substantially* increased. I don't think 500k for a lvl 1, and 1m for a lvl 2 would be at all out of line. That still wouldn't cover auto-respec, but it would at least be a meaningful amount of money.

      I don't think dicking around with artifact values is a very good idea. Robes of purity are supposed to be rare and expensive.


      > Another very controversial idea, would be making 20v20cgvg alliance-limited.

      Noooo. nonononononononono. Absolutely not. This would make it much MUCH harder to be competitive with top tier teams.

      The issue with what you are suggesting, is that teams like Elevate and Raid are *paying* their mercs to join their guild for season points. Teams like mine, that don't pay our 'mercs' (actually just friends) get them on our team through offering them content and allowing them to earn season points for our own guild. We couldn't afford to pay them to join our guild if we wanted to. This suggestion would make it impossible for teams like mine to pull in decent players from outside our guild, while not affecting the top tier teams at all.
    • My guild has been running most of the NA slots since the season kicked off. We had planned to do both the lvl 1 and lvl 2 slot whenever we had an organized form up. Very early on, however, all of the intermediate teams dropped out of attempting lvl 2s. Recently, we don't even see many casual teams in the lvl 1s.

      5v5 have the lvl 1/2/3 breakout that allows teams more naturally split into casual/full loot intermediate/full loot advanced. 20s just seem to lack that with the way the scheduling and lvl compression works out. If you want to try full loot, you're jumping right in to the pool that contains the top teams. If you want to try it casual, you're likely to face against an intermediate or advanced team.
    • SirusX715 wrote:

      My guild has been running most of the NA slots since the season kicked off. We had planned to do both the lvl 1 and lvl 2 slot whenever we had an organized form up. Very early on, however, all of the intermediate teams dropped out of attempting lvl 2s. Recently, we don't even see many casual teams in the lvl 1s.

      5v5 have the lvl 1/2/3 breakout that allows teams more naturally split into casual/full loot intermediate/full loot advanced. 20s just seem to lack that with the way the scheduling and lvl compression works out. If you want to try full loot, you're jumping right in to the pool that contains the top teams. If you want to try it casual, you're likely to face against an intermediate or advanced team.
      Exactly that's why this content is going to die. Top teams will just keep fighting each other and that's it. My guild don't really have any other expenses but regears so we can invest hundreds of millions into that content, but I know that guilds who are mainly zvz won't be able to fund 20m+ per day for level 2 so this content will decline week after week or level 1 will turn into 20v20 if they are not that already. Anyway we switched to scirms because we can find more appropriate enemy and we get more value out of such matches, but TBH it should be lvl 2 + scrims not lvl 1 + scrims ...

      Yesterday there was 1 EU match level 2 and 1 NA match level 2. That's already alarming and something should be changed before teams who invested a lot into organizing this stuff lose incentive. Don't wait until it's too late, SBI. Please.

    • Hey, thanks for your feedback.

      Just to give you a quick heads up we are planning to make adjustments and improvements to the 20v20 Crystal League in Season 12. However these adjustments haven't been finalized yet, so we didn't post anything publicly yet. But I wanted to let you know, that we are planning to have some changes to improve the 20v20 league. For example these two points are already pretty certain by now:
      • There will be two Level 1 and Level 2 matches at each time slot. So top teams don't have to take part in level 1s anymore.
      • No Shows will give Season Points
      We will also review if the expected participation rate allows for more frequent higher level matches and go over the rewards / daily limits and see what other improvements we manage to get in.

      Cheers,
      Retro
    • Hello Retroman.
      Just a short suggestion from my side. Please also consider the ideas below:
      - expand maximum lvl to lvl 7,
      - make lvl 1 & 2 to be played at 19:00 (and other daily timers), lvl 2 & 3 to be played at 19:30 (and other daily timers),
      - or maybe even lvl 1, 2 & 3 to be played at each time slot (if there is enough player base - but I think this change with intermediate lvl 2 will bring more teams to this wonderful content)
      - other lvls will be played as it is right now - lvl 4 once per week, lvl 5 once per 2 weeks and so on.

      Making lvl 1 & 2 available at each time slot won't make any difference because you will still face top teams in lvl 2, but this time 2 times instead of 1. We need a middle lvl between casual (lvl 1) and pro (lvl 3).

      Thanks!

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Ashoracky ().

    • The real problem right now is that nearly nobody can afford playing daily lvl2 except for few best teams. Entry lvl for full loot cgvg is raised to unbelievable level because of very expensive avalonian items. For example, my 1h mace set without any ava item costs 300k. It's crazy that healers MUST have single items which are more expensive than my entire set (hallowfall 500k, robe of purity 400k). Those items are overpowered and if we rarerly win with those, there is literally no chance for us to win any match playing cheap off-meta sets. I can afford to die few times per day, but what should I say to ppl with 4 times more expensive gear. Right now we (Avium) have 80% winrate on lvl1 and 25% winrate on lvl2 (losing money even when we win). There is a huuuge gap between lvl1 and 2. If you make it like 5v5's timers right now, we either bankrupt twice as fast or smash twice as many newbies on lvl1. There is no future for cgvg if those prices or items stays in meta any longer.

      What I propose:
      - nerf robe of purity and hallowfall, they are OP and the best evidence is ppl are willing to pay 500k for 4.0 low ip items
      - add low tier artifacts to cgvg loot chests and the drop rate should be set high, preferably the quantity of drops should self-regulate depending on what is being played in cgvg, which should prevent lvl 4 & 5 artifacts prices going nuts

      If you do this, there should be enough teams willing to play full-loot to make lvl2 playable on skill level lower than "the best". I'm not sure if adding lvl3 right now can change anything if there are already 1-3 lvl2 matches per day at 19UTC. The only way to save 20v20 content is to make the lowest lvl full-loot matches affordable for new teams. Right now it's all or nothing, and most teams end with nothing. We need time to reduce the gap between new teams and best teams consisting of city gvg and 5v5 veterans.
    • Retroman wrote:

      Hey, thanks for your feedback.

      Just to give you a quick heads up we are planning to make adjustments and improvements to the 20v20 Crystal League in Season 12. However these adjustments haven't been finalized yet, so we didn't post anything publicly yet. But I wanted to let you know, that we are planning to have some changes to improve the 20v20 league. For example these two points are already pretty certain by now:
      • There will be two Level 1 and Level 2 matches at each time slot. So top teams don't have to take part in level 1s anymore.
      • No Shows will give Season Points
      We will also review if the expected participation rate allows for more frequent higher level matches and go over the rewards / daily limits and see what other improvements we manage to get in.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      Hi Retro,

      I understand these are quick wins we can get without changing much or investing resources into already live development. But in fact, these changes do not really cover problems described above.

      I've taken enough time to think about this and discuss that with others, below are my comments:

      • There will be two Level 1 and Level 2 matches at each time slot. So top teams don't have to take part in level 1s anymore.
      Making two timers for level1 and level2 indeed will be a good incentive for the very beginning teams so some teams might have more fun with it, but it completely does not create additional tier between TOP and BOTTOM tiers. Top teams playing level 1, makes it a great opportunity to play it against much stronger opponent and is a good thing for new teams/starting teams. I think having level 2 and level 3 at the same time while is quite a greater risk for no-shows (which would still add points after this change), could be a nice incentive for level1 teams to try it. So your first change is only increasing low-effort/no-risk pve rewards from level1 which would have negative impact on open world PvE (this is instanced mode).


      So not sure if you even considered my idea - having level 2 and 3 daily, which partially solves this problem (partially because it creates another - noshows in case SBI fails to keep this content alive).


      • No Shows will give Season Points
      As a solo guild that played Cgvg almost every day for the whole January, we are not even close to silver. Most of the points we have were from the open world and our participation in an alliance. Now we are solo, yet cgvg 20v20 level 1 / losing level2 completely does not give points and we completely do not care about it. I think none of 20v20 teams do it because of season points. People play it, because it is THE MOST FUN CONTENT you have added to the game since ZvZ is nowhere close to what it was in 2018/2019. I will repeat my original post - people want to play 20v20 in full loot mode, but they simply can't compete with top5 teams. As a person who spends daily at least few hours to maitain 20v20 team I can tell you - there are tons of reasons to give up every day and some things require development changes or this content is simply going to die. Yesterday there was 1 level 2 match in our timer, it's not because the content sucks, it's because the reward vs risk is so unbalanced nobody is that stupid.

      For this reason, the only way to go is to do something about it. I am sorry but that require switching silver sinks from here to other places of game where rewards are much nicer than risks (due to hideouts, instanced mode, low effort required, low risk involved).

      Silver rewards, fame books or season points itself are not as much of a problem as price of low tier artifacts. People also said this seem be an issue with 5v5's or hellgates as well, we have IP caps but that does completely not change the entry cost or whatever. I understand silver sinks are part of the system, but I think 0.5m for a T4 flat item that is basically the most OP in current game is way too much to handle. Your solution is IP caps, but this does completely not take into consideration the abominable price of avalonian artifacts / meta items.



      So to sum up:

      I assume you haven't read my original post but I will repeat - you need to fight better teams to learn. Those teams won't scrim with you so you dont get better than them or simply because they dont have the time to wipe you 190:0. The only option is to play, lose, learn, play, lose, learn. But this costs 15-20m for each match for the whole team.

      I can tell you officially - as we are one of few teams that I am aware of that still try to learn this content. And I can tell you what new teams need to go through.


      You have huge opportunity to make a great, fair large combats between guilds, however you completely ignore that and miss the chance of making Albion even a better game. I hope you discuss this with people who can make things happen very quickly, because time ticks much faster than you can realize.

      I don't need to repeat my motivation behind spending time to tell you that, treat it like a favor so you guys don't need to spend next 6 months analyzing why nobody plays this content.


      Participation rate is a joke:

      The post was edited 2 times, last by glokz ().

    • Hello @Retroman!
      Changes to 20v20 for Season 12 looks really promising and we hope this content will only grow as the time passes by!

      However, I would like to bring to your attention the problem that is and, without a change, will still be there. Right now on lvl 1 people bring like 10 hallowalls just to make sure they interrupt your capping and buy enough time for their team to join the fight once you wipe the guy that suicides to interrupt. This is nowhere near to the gameplay style that is on a full loot level. My suggestion is to increase the amount of time you are dead just on lvl 1. It will prevent the massive casualties strategy and will give teams a feeling they can learn something useful to their strategy but in a non full loot manner to later use it on lvl 2+.

      Cheers!
    • I agree with Ashoracky, although it is not as much concern to me it would be nice to further combat such practices and improve quality of the matches in the future.

      It is indeed not really fun to lose against guys who just suicide for caps and have no bigger strategy rather than split and rat caps that usually abuse overpowered items and such strats can't really evolve into higher levels, but instead they do ruin experience for those who really want to practice their own strat that doesnt involve ratting but is based on actually killing enemies. We had matches where we killed over 100 times yet won just by a few points. It was not really fair for us, especially the way how easy it is to interrupt on level 1 (there's no need to gear up, eat food so you are 15 seconds faster to respawn than in full loot combat).

      I have in mind future changes that would punish dying a lot and bleeding points, but that won't stop those teams from trying to rat, I am almost sure. It is nice change though and will make proper teams life easier.

      But as this topic has been raised, I'd take my chance at verbalizing my idea that I had some time ago:



      Currently taking a cap takes 10 seconds and can be done only by channeling of a single person. While in 5v5 it does not matter so much because there's simply no possibility to rat caps, in 20v20 it is clearly visible this should be changed to multiple channels at once.

      In Overwatch every objective is capped at 3 people.

      In Albion my proposition it would be as below:

      Capping a point with single person: 100% speed = 10 seconds
      Capping a point with two people: 125% speed = 8 seconds
      Capping a point with three or more: 150% speed = 6,6 seconds

      Taking a point is a huge struggle and dissatisfying feeling when you are dominating the battle. Caping points with multiple people is quite fair and balanced, because it actually consumes more of the team time (1 person = 10 seconds, 2 people = 16 seconds, 3 people = 20 seconds) and can be utilized as strategy factor to roam and capture points even in higher levels.

      Of course that's my idea and might be against basic design of this content but as always, I believe it's worth to think about some basic changes of how 20v20 works and that it doesn't really need to be 1:1 extended 5v5 content.
    • Hello @Retroman!
      Refreshing the topic as 20v20 is sadly still in a bad state due to a lack of teams in a full loot mode. As we can see from stats, there are basically 3 teams that play lvl 2+ daily: SUN teams (or associated ones) and Violets team (that was made like 3 days ago).

      Lvl 2 in s12:


      Lvl 3 in s12:


      These were the full loot matches. Let's take a look at non lethal ones.

      Lvl 1 s12:


      Just today (NA timer) we got 12 matches. The fact that there were no matches lvl 2+ in NA timer since the beginning of the season speaks for itself...

      The reason of it is pretty simple - there is no difference in rewards between lvl 1 and lvl 2+. Most people play this content just because it is a free, without any risk, 1 milion fame that you can put in any gear that you want. To be honest, it is a kind of a joke having in mind how difficult it was to get this fame in the past (and you were forced to do it in at risk in a specific gear so no any gear). By doing this we encourage people to feel safe in every aspect of the game and I'm 100% sure it was not an intention when developing a FULL LOOT PVP GAME.

      However, the solution seems pretty simple. Either you:
      - lower the amount of books for non full loot modes so that people will truly experience the "high risk = high reward"
      - make the rewards bigger for full loot modes
      - mix of both so that rewards will significantly change with every lvl

      I know that this might be a little bit too soon to judge, but in my opinion this trend will eventually stays the same for all season long.

      Looking forward to hearing from you! Thanks!

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Ashoracky ().