Albion killed the crafters.

    • deenne wrote:

      @Piddle I can call you clown, you can choose which one you like better

      Piddle wrote:

      So you know their names, but its a secret. That's an interesting statement for an adult to make.

      Piddle wrote:

      Who are these people with 100 alts exactly? Give us some names.

      Piddle wrote:

      "Everyone knows", "People are saying", these are the things that dishonest people say when they get caught trying to pretend that their little mental exercises and theory crafting are actual reality.

      Give us the names of people who are doing this. Let's get them in here to talk about it. How much effort it takes. How much money they are making.

      But, we need names first. So, unless you admit you are just making things up on the spot to try and promote some weird agenda. Give us some names.
      you are right, people are not abusing islands, no one has 100/1000 islands/laborers, yea thats 100% true.. crafting is dead, we cant abuse HO in BZ's, we cant abuse all this islands in caerleon and crafting there 100% safe .. all this what we are talknig about is false, cuz its a MYTH proved by PIDDLE delusional aka clown.
      Literally every single one of those comments are about you and your friends claims of players with 100s of alts with premium, pumping out millions of focus a day.

      Let's un-edit these comments you decided to crop for your own benefit.

      Piddle wrote:

      nyanpower wrote:

      I know a lot of people who have actually hundreds of alts for crafting stationed in caerleon i can't say their names cuz I don't have permission and Im a labourer manager
      So you know their names, but its a secret. That's an interesting statement for an adult to make.

      Piddle wrote:

      Sat4nicRezende wrote:

      And saying that albion is the only game I know that allows you to craft with 100 accounts.
      Who are these people with 100 alts exactly? Give us some names.

      Piddle wrote:

      deenne wrote:

      Piddle wrote:

      Who are these people with 100 alts exactly? Give us some names.
      cmon, everyone of us knows there are people which abusing islands, mostly rmters.. siting whole day on islands and crafting hella tons of items.and there is not theirs fault, game letting them doing it, blame devs for not balancing labors etc..
      "Everyone knows", "People are saying", these are the things that dishonest people say when they get caught trying to pretend that their little mental exercises and theory crafting are actual reality.
      Give us the names of people who are doing this. Let's get them in here to talk about it. How much effort it takes. How much money they are making.

      But, we need names first. So, unless you admit you are just making things up on the spot to try and promote some weird agenda. Give us some names.
      There is as far as I can tell, only a single post I have made about laborers here.

      Albion killed the crafters.

      Which, agree or disagree with it as you like, obviously makes it clear I am aware people have lots of laborers. This weird idea you managed to cram in your head, that I was denying people have lots of laborers, it literally doesn't even make sense.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
      Demon Lord - UwU
    • Laborers are (generally) are also good for the game.
      They create constant demand on stone and return investments in huge time period.
      Yes, some players manage to pass this period and yield real profit.
      But still, stone, and profit, stay inside them, out of economy.
      WTB skill
    • gmatagmis wrote:

      Laborers are (generally) are also good for the game.
      Laborers also balance out this problem of players with 10s of alts. You don't even need premium to use laborers. In fact, it seems like a lot of crafters start off using laborers to craft, and then over time start pulling back on the amount they use as their focus becomes more valuable. Eventually, they often just start selling journals. Which is how all the people who aren't crafters, but do own laborers, get their books to process.


      gmatagmis wrote:

      There was a suggestion, to make island buildings decay, and increase laborers profit accordingly.
      So number of laborers will be limited by market stone supply, and link stone price with other resources.
      I'd rather they just nerf laborers rather than create another complicated and poorly understood system. I do think that higher tier house receipes should include larger amounts of lower tier stone block. Mostly in an effort to balance out the consumption of stone blocks. We are living a version of AO with just about the highest prices on T7 and T8 rock/block, while also having the lowest prices on T3-T4. The building of high tier houses should put more silver in the pockets of players lower down the gathering spectrum.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
      Demon Lord - UwU
    • Only reason why Stone is more expensive compared to other resources is because you cant fill builder journals, that in theory could give building materials back like stone blocks. Only option to get stone back is from stone cutter labors, witch are more fair in the sense that they take time to fill, and u actually have to move your butt out of town to fill them.

      Stone is actually balanced, where as all the other ones are not, in the sense that all crafting journals are 0 risk, and too easy to fill, compared to actually gathering the mats and refine them.
    • krazzer wrote:

      Only reason why Stone is more expensive compared to other resources is because you cant fill builder journals, that in theory could give building materials back like stone blocks. Only option to get stone back is from stone cutter labors, witch are more fair in the sense that they take time to fill, and u actually have to move your butt out of town to fill them.

      Stone is actually balanced, where as all the other ones are not, in the sense that all crafting journals are 0 risk, and too easy to fill, compared to actually gathering the mats and refine them.
      Remember the Laborers are PLANNED into the system. Is not "resources out of nowhere", since you get about 20-30% of resources you spent filling them back. This plus focus is just the game saying: Things cost 30% of their real cost to craft but we will add extra steps to make it meaningful. Laborers are a MUST for crafting and while I agree they are "riskless", they are the only reason people can craft on this market.
    • Gabumon wrote:

      krazzer wrote:

      Only reason why Stone is more expensive compared to other resources is because you cant fill builder journals, that in theory could give building materials back like stone blocks. Only option to get stone back is from stone cutter labors, witch are more fair in the sense that they take time to fill, and u actually have to move your butt out of town to fill them.

      Stone is actually balanced, where as all the other ones are not, in the sense that all crafting journals are 0 risk, and too easy to fill, compared to actually gathering the mats and refine them.
      Remember the Laborers are PLANNED into the system. Is not "resources out of nowhere", since you get about 20-30% of resources you spent filling them back. This plus focus is just the game saying: Things cost 30% of their real cost to craft but we will add extra steps to make it meaningful. Laborers are a MUST for crafting and while I agree they are "riskless", they are the only reason people can craft on this market.
      Just because something is PLANNED does not mean its right :)
      The reason why its PLANNED is to make people buy premium.
      RR & labors are poison in any game economy because it hurts all gathering professions, because RR & labors generates items that are not being gathered, it really is that simple.
      If RR & labors were removed we would truly have an open market, like in any other MMO.
      And we would also get a marked based on supply and demand, and not determined who has most ALT with premium.
    • krazzer wrote:

      Gabumon wrote:

      krazzer wrote:

      Only reason why Stone is more expensive compared to other resources is because you cant fill builder journals, that in theory could give building materials back like stone blocks. Only option to get stone back is from stone cutter labors, witch are more fair in the sense that they take time to fill, and u actually have to move your butt out of town to fill them.

      Stone is actually balanced, where as all the other ones are not, in the sense that all crafting journals are 0 risk, and too easy to fill, compared to actually gathering the mats and refine them.
      Remember the Laborers are PLANNED into the system. Is not "resources out of nowhere", since you get about 20-30% of resources you spent filling them back. This plus focus is just the game saying: Things cost 30% of their real cost to craft but we will add extra steps to make it meaningful. Laborers are a MUST for crafting and while I agree they are "riskless", they are the only reason people can craft on this market.
      Just because something is PLANNED does not mean its right :) The reason why its PLANNED is to make people buy premium.
      RR & labors are poison in any game economy because it hurts all gathering professions, because RR & labors generates items that are not being gathered, it really is that simple.
      If RR & labors were removed we would truly have an open market, like in any other MMO.
      And we would also get a marked based on supply and demand, and not determined who has most ALT with premium.
      RR & Laborers have 0 impact on gathering professions. There is no RR and Laborers without gathering. On top of that, RR and Laborers ensure that gatherers don't control the entire economy and niche players can thrive.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Aurin ().

    • I haven't read the entire thread because lol thats a lot of fucking nonsense to wade through, but the dudes suggesting that SBI should "do something" about people with hundreds of accounts : do what? Should SBI IP restrict it so you can only have 1 account per household? I can't think of a single MMO on the market, not a single one, that disallows alternate accounts. Why should Albion Online be the lone game doing this?
    • krazzer wrote:

      RR & labors are poison in any game economy because it hurts all gathering professions, because RR & labors generates items that are not being gathered, it really is that simple.

      If RR & labors were removed we would truly have an open market, like in any other MMO.
      And we would also get a marked based on supply and demand, and not determined who has most ALT with premium.
      Labourers can only exist with Filled Journals, which can only exist with gatherers. If anything labourers increase the money gatherers make because you can sell the items you gather AND the books full of fame.
    • krazzer wrote:

      The reason why its PLANNED is to make people buy premium.
      RR & labors are poison in any game economy because it hurts all gathering professions, because RR & labors generates items that are not being gathered, it really is that simple.
      If RR & labors were removed we would truly have an open market, like in any other MMO.
      And we would also get a marked based on supply and demand, and not determined who has most ALT with premium.
      You do not understand the basics of how economy works, and how the game works.

      Labourers/RR don't "generate" items, they just make it so it costs less to craft. If you simply removed them, this is what would change:

      Prices of items would rise 2-3x, to adjust for higher crafting costs.
      Since RR wouldn't exist, and focus wouldn't matter, competition would be all about who can spot windows for profit faster, and fulfill that need before other crafters - which would result in couple of guys with best programs hooked into API, getting all the profits.
      Other than that, profit margins would become insanely small, as you would remove the biggest barriers of entry and flood the market with new crafters, so day-to-day crafting, would become a profession for purely newer players, who would be happy with making less profit than blackzone pve/pvp, because they're not skilled enough to do it or dont have access to high tier bz, because they're in smaller guilds.
      Prices of materials would rise astronomically, because demand would rise multiple times, while supply would stay the same. Assuming you want to remove RR on refining too, that would mean gathering becoming by far the most profitable thing in Albion, and result in big alliances protecting their zones 24/7. Also, with more people gathering, and smaller guild gatherers pushed into low tier zones, they would also become flooded with gankers, making the lives of non-mega-alliance gatherers, an absolute nightmare. If you wouldn't remove RR on refining, it would instead mean that all the profits from increased resource prices, would go to the pockets of cartel, which would rise the taxes on refining multiple times.

      Overall it would only result in a far bigger income for mega-alliances and people with access to good programs feeding them market info. And rich people would be mostly unaffected because they would just invest their money in things like skins (which tbh are already the better investment than alts/labourers). But average players in smaller guilds/alliances, would be completely screwed. Crafters profits would be down. Gatherers would get ganked 24/7 and have no acces to better tier of resources, and pve/pvp players would have to farm 3x as long to afford their sets.

      Overall, great change if your intention was to shift the game even more towards mega-alliances, and fuck up poorer and newer players. As i said, you don't understand the basics of subjects you're talking about. Or you're a rich guy in a mega alliance, and want to make your life even easier.
    • Gabumon wrote:

      krazzer wrote:

      Only reason why Stone is more expensive compared to other resources is because you cant fill builder journals, that in theory could give building materials back like stone blocks. Only option to get stone back is from stone cutter labors, witch are more fair in the sense that they take time to fill, and u actually have to move your butt out of town to fill them.

      Stone is actually balanced, where as all the other ones are not, in the sense that all crafting journals are 0 risk, and too easy to fill, compared to actually gathering the mats and refine them.
      Remember the Laborers are PLANNED into the system. Is not "resources out of nowhere", since you get about 20-30% of resources you spent filling them back. This plus focus is just the game saying: Things cost 30% of their real cost to craft but we will add extra steps to make it meaningful. Laborers are a MUST for crafting and while I agree they are "riskless", they are the only reason people can craft on this market.
      except for the fact with a nerf this massive they effectivly did kill crafting. All that tier 8 gear people use for ZvZs? that comes from crafters who either gather or run islands. Gathering was already terrible before, but now mat prices went off a cliff so it's even worse so thats out. Islands got crushed too, book prices still very high, mat prices extremely low and black market profit is non existent. If running islands is no longer profitable then you can be damn well sure that the price of the gear pvpers use is gonna skyrocket as people just stop crafting all together. Crafting black market profits helped keep the cost of the gear people actually use down, but now thats out. SBI fucked up. BAD. You will start feeling the effects of this soon indeed. Block prices are in the dirt, mat prices are in the dirt, journal prices still sky high, furniture prices in the dirt. If keeping the money in circulation in check is what they intended to do, this is not the correct way to do it. The best way to do it is to remove more silver from circulation. Increase taxes, add new silver sinks ect. You dont deal with inflation by torching your in game economy, and for that reason either the people on the round table who suggested this or the devs that just implemented it without thinking about the ramifications are at fault. SBI needs someone on their staff who is actually knowledgeable about economics to help them manage their in game economy.

      @Retroman

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Nesnes: insulting ().

    • SHRlKE wrote:

      krazzer wrote:

      The reason why its PLANNED is to make people buy premium.
      RR & labors are poison in any game economy because it hurts all gathering professions, because RR & labors generates items that are not being gathered, it really is that simple.
      If RR & labors were removed we would truly have an open market, like in any other MMO.
      And we would also get a marked based on supply and demand, and not determined who has most ALT with premium.
      You do not understand the basics of how economy works, and how the game works.
      Labourers/RR don't "generate" items, they just make it so it costs less to craft. If you simply removed them, this is what would change:

      Prices of items would rise 2-3x, to adjust for higher crafting costs.
      Since RR wouldn't exist, and focus wouldn't matter, competition would be all about who can spot windows for profit faster, and fulfill that need before other crafters - which would result in couple of guys with best programs hooked into API, getting all the profits.
      Other than that, profit margins would become insanely small, as you would remove the biggest barriers of entry and flood the market with new crafters, so day-to-day crafting, would become a profession for purely newer players, who would be happy with making less profit than blackzone pve/pvp, because they're not skilled enough to do it or dont have access to high tier bz, because they're in smaller guilds.
      Prices of materials would rise astronomically, because demand would rise multiple times, while supply would stay the same. Assuming you want to remove RR on refining too, that would mean gathering becoming by far the most profitable thing in Albion, and result in big alliances protecting their zones 24/7. Also, with more people gathering, and smaller guild gatherers pushed into low tier zones, they would also become flooded with gankers, making the lives of non-mega-alliance gatherers, an absolute nightmare. If you wouldn't remove RR on refining, it would instead mean that all the profits from increased resource prices, would go to the pockets of cartel, which would rise the taxes on refining multiple times.

      Overall it would only result in a far bigger income for mega-alliances and people with access to good programs feeding them market info. And rich people would be mostly unaffected because they would just invest their money in things like skins (which tbh are already the better investment than alts/labourers). But average players in smaller guilds/alliances, would be completely screwed. Crafters profits would be down. Gatherers would get ganked 24/7 and have no acces to better tier of resources, and pve/pvp players would have to farm 3x as long to afford their sets.

      Overall, great change if your intention was to shift the game even more towards mega-alliances, and fuck up poorer and newer players. As i said, you don't understand the basics of subjects you're talking about. Or you're a rich guy in a mega alliance, and want to make your life even easier.
      Heh the issue is that i actually understand the economics too well.
      You are aware that the whole idea behind hideouts, and terrys, is that people should fight for the resources in them right ?
      Do show some math to support your claim ?
      All the statements / arguments you have provided so far is pretty much invalid, and wrong, showing your lack of understanding how sandbox games, and RL works.
    • krazzer wrote:

      You are aware that the whole idea behind hideouts, and terrys, is that people should fight for the resources in them right ?
      Ahh yes, so I was right, and your whole agenda is to make mega-alliances even richer, and fill your own pockets.

      krazzer wrote:

      Do show some math to support your claim ?
      You're the one proposing the change, maybe show some math supporting your claim that it would actually be a positive change for the game?

      krazzer wrote:

      All the statements / arguments you have provided so far is pretty much invalid, and wrong, showing your lack of understanding how sandbox games, and RL works
      And your arguments are.... wait, you didn't actually provide any, other than "DO WHAT I WANT IT WOULD BE GOOD I SWEAR :)".
    • SHRlKE wrote:

      krazzer wrote:

      You are aware that the whole idea behind hideouts, and terrys, is that people should fight for the resources in them right ?
      Ahh yes, so I was right, and your whole agenda is to make mega-alliances even richer, and fill your own pockets.

      krazzer wrote:

      Do show some math to support your claim ?
      You're the one proposing the change, maybe show some math supporting your claim that it would actually be a positive change for the game?

      krazzer wrote:

      All the statements / arguments you have provided so far is pretty much invalid, and wrong, showing your lack of understanding how sandbox games, and RL works
      And your arguments are.... wait, you didn't actually provide any, other than "DO WHAT I WANT IT WOULD BE GOOD I SWEAR :)".
      Just curious where do u get all that shit from ?
      I don't even have a crafter, nor am i in a big guild or alliance.
      I think you are a crafter, and are scared to loose your premium perks..lol
      But ya i can show you some math.
      refine 10 T4 bars, RR = 40% w/focus. lets assume it takes 2 ore to make 1 bar. so u need 20 bars. RR= 0.4 * 20 = 8 ore generated out of free air.
      craft 1 merc jacket, requires 32 leather, RR = 40% = 0.4* 32 = ~ 13 leather generated out of free air, and u give the filled journal to a labor, and another 8-10 leather is generated, equals to a total of 23 leather generated out of free air.

      This so called mechanic is only put into the game to force people to buy premium, the right solution witch you have everywhere else is simply to lower the amount needed to craft an item, and have crafting skill determinate item quality. there will always be an demand for lower tier resources, because u need them to refine higher tier.
      So there you have it, the sum is the same, and RR, and labors not needed in any way. Refinement should however based on skill return enchanted materials, so the skill would be worth leveling.Supply and demand stays the same
      As a side bonus, supply would not be tied to the amount of focus that are in the game, and would benefit everyone with lower prices on gear.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by krazzer ().

    • Gnomead wrote:

      except for the fact with a nerf this massive they effectivly did kill crafting. All that tier 8 gear people use for ZvZs? that comes from crafters who either gather or run islands. Gathering was already terrible before, but now mat prices went off a cliff so it's even worse so thats out. Islands got crushed too, book prices still very high, mat prices extremely low and black market profit is non existent. If running islands is no longer profitable then you can be damn well sure that the price of the gear pvpers use is gonna skyrocket as people just stop crafting all together. Crafting black market profits helped keep the cost of the gear people actually use down, but now thats out. SBI fucked up. BAD. You will start feeling the effects of this soon indeed. Block prices are in the dirt, mat prices are in the dirt, journal prices still sky high, furniture prices in the dirt. If keeping the money in circulation in check is what they intended to do, this is not the correct way to do it. The best way to do it is to remove more silver from circulation. Increase taxes, add new silver sinks ect. You dont deal with inflation by torching your in game economy. SBI needs someone on their staff who is actually knowledgeable about economics to help them manage their in game economy.
      Still selling 7.2 energy shapers with 300k profit (~30% margin) per item every day.
      Going out like hot pies btw.
      WTB skill

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Nesnes: Insult in the quote, provoking reply ().