Why are you killing kite-bows?

    • lilsam wrote:

      man warbow is broken against meele
      WB is broken against classes, who have no mobility, or over-range buffs. How many classes left? Swords? Battle axe? Who else? I mean who else from CD meta, you can really meat inside.

      lilsam wrote:

      the reason u died against those because u literally works into their traps


      u worked to a trap against a q staff, wtf do u expect?
      u changed to poison against a bearpaws, wtf do u expect?
      I know. I just wanna show, how does SBI said: "We don't like hit-and-run gameplay" and turned it to bite and reset. Much better now. Thanks)

      lilsam wrote:

      warbow had the most mobility in the game in cd with the knockbacks and frost shot

      In cd, mobility is the game winner thats why sbi added traps to prevent hard kiting but it had the opposite effect
      Hmmm.. Let's think. Spear is better(Avalonian, or regular), frost is better, axes(grate and BP), daggers are better(shadow blade gives much better mobility than a frost shout). Except it there are classes, who don't care about your mobility because of thair range and damage(crossbow, course staff). At the same time, any heal, or Johny two jacket just immortal for warbow don't make some huge misstakes.
    • BackOFF wrote:

      That guy, WEZT, play well. You agreed with it, above. How much infame does he with a warbow? I saw 2kk. Didn't checked, but ready to ready to bet on my first pension - less than 5. Too bad for "A tier", don't you think?
      I mean, wouldn't something like 4 mil infamy be A-tier? The top 100 on the charts are literally like 2/3rds quarterstaffs, a natural counter to bow with triple mobility and stuns. This is why I said its A tier and not S tier. Also number 31 on the boards right now...



      BackOFF wrote:

      Wow! Who are they? Can sword and black hands? All the two?)) Can you clarify a bit?))
      Sure, these weapons have basically no chance of killing a warbow (or really any kiting bow):
      • Every sword
      • Every axe but bearpaws
      • Every spear but one-handed
      • Every dagger but bloodletter
      • Every crossbow
      • Every firestaff that doesn't have fire-artillery on W (only way to trade damage at range)
      I'm sure there are others, but I think that gets the point across. If the bow outranges the weapon, and has more/equal mobility, you literally can't do anything to stop them from picking you at range.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by FriendlyFire ().

    • FriendlyFire wrote:

      I mean, wouldn't something like 4 mil infamy be A-tier? The top 100 on the charts are literally like 2/3rds quarterstaffs, a natural counter to bow with triple mobility and stuns. This is why I said its A tier and not S tier. Also number 31 on the boards right now...
      - Depends on, what is A tier in your opinion. In case of top rates are 40-50(or what is top 1?) I don't think, that 1\10 of top values are A tier. As I understand, you make an analogy with Lineage2 items tiers. Then tier A is 5\6. In case if he got 4kk with WB. I watch that channel. He plays BP, Mace, QS, and others.
      - Okay. One guy on 31st place? From all the 14000 players? And you call it a Tier A? Hmm... should I count, how many frost staffs are at the top 100? Or even top 10? And as I understand, it is not a top today. Don't event wanna check, how many QS are there. And do you know, how many WB players were in the top 10 from CD release? 0!

      FriendlyFire wrote:

      Sure, these weapons have basically no chance of killing a warbow (or really any kiting bow):
      • Every sword
      • Every axe but bearpaws
      • Every spear but one-handed
      • Every dagger but bloodletter
      • Every crossbow
      • Every firestaff that doesn't have fire-artillery on W (only way to trade damage at range)
      I'm sure there are others, but I think that gets the point across. If the bow outranges the weapon, and has more/equal mobility, you literally can't do anything to stop them from picking you at range.
      - Swords... yes. It's too weak now. But if sword use a reflect. Believe me, it's not so easy to kill when yours only damage deals to you instead of your enemy. But agree. In sword vs warbow matchup, warbow looks better if he knows, what to do.
      - When did you saw some other axe on CD last time? I remember 2 battle axes during last month. Maybe 3. But there were 2, 3 even 4 fights one by one against BP. By the way, the great axe also has a mobility buff on E and more mobile than WB. Don't think, it can kill, but it can run away for sure.
      - Spear? Really? The only spear that is easy to kill is one shot pike. But only while it will not switch to a harpoon. Avalian\Regular Spear - the same mobility + harpoon. Impossible to kite. Trading with that is the same as write /suicide. Trinity. Again, jump + hook + insane damage. Impossible to fight, very hard to kite. Heron. This matchup is more dependent on players skill. But again harpoon + root... And all of them doesn't care about your multishot because of attack range.
      - Every dagger... BloodLetter(faster, stronger), dagger pair(depends on his skill. One shadow blade hit and you lose 2\3 of HP), solo-dagger can just one-shot you via royal helm, but I didn't meat them after a fix of gatherer boots.
      - CROSSBOW? Just try to kite that: . He is out of the screen. I even don't see him. But his target Q without CD deals more damage than my E. "Just press Q" monkeys. I hate them.
      - All of the fire staffs has a fire-artillery on W in CD. But they are out of meta too. I saw several fire-staff players for last month.
    • BackOFF wrote:

      Swords... yes. It's too weak now...
      - When did you saw some other axe on CD last time?
      This is why the warbow is A-tier. It is actually competitive and usable at high infamy, while large swaths of weapons are unusable as even you admit.

      It's not S-tier, the meta, but it's good and usable. So A-tier.

      BackOFF wrote:

      - Spear? Really? The only spear that is easy to kill is one shot pike. But only while it will not switch to a harpoon. Avalian\Regular Spear - the same mobility + harpoon. Impossible to kite. Trading with that is the same as write /suicide. Trinity. Again, jump + hook + insane damage. Impossible to fight, very hard to kite. Heron. This matchup is more dependent on players skill. But again harpoon + root... And all of them doesn't care about your multishot because of attack range.
      ? You already posted a video of you beating the avalonian spear (and them escaping with crystals). It also showed that you could easily multishot them out of the spears range. The avalonian and trinity spears have mobility on their E, but both are short distances and slow, hardly moving you farther then walking would have.

      Even if they harpoon you, you just frost-shot away. Otherwise you can keep distance with multishot and pick away. I admit there is less room for error against spears then things like swords, but bow still will have the advantage and should win when played well.

      BackOFF wrote:

      - Every dagger... BloodLetter(faster, stronger), dagger pair(depends on his skill. One shadow blade hit and you lose 2\3 of HP), solo-dagger can just one-shot you via royal helm, but I didn't meat them after a fix of gatherer boots.
      You run guardian helm and invis jacket. Click either of them when they throw shadow blade out and you're fine. Negate much/all of the damage, and then enjoy wailing on them while they wait for it to come off cooldown again. You could do the same thing with a gig/resist pot as well.

      BackOFF wrote:

      CROSSBOW? Just try to kite that:
      Deadlyshot outranges anything crossbows have (as does warbow E) and crossbows have literally 0 mobility. You can literally just poke them to death. Or you can copy wezty and man fight them, using multishot to cancel their channels.

      I agree with you that crossbows are annoying as hell, with the huge damage they get by just pressing Q every 5 seconds. Bows are both the one weapon that can outrange them, and also one of the only weapons with an interrupt on Q. Making them uniquely good against crossbows.

      I'd consider crossbows S-tier, personally. Certainly will be after the incoming QS nerf.
    • Let´s be real. Warbow players are ... trash.

      BackOFF plays like that , and imagine if someone like that is considered decent when it comes to average warbow player ( i hope not).

      It´s not the problem in the weapon, but in the players. They play like total trash. If the weapon has low winrate, it´s not always that it automatically means that it´s bad - sometimes, the people are just absolute trash.
      When i was playing battleaxe, i had pretty good winrate despite playing rather badly, being agressive, without patience, dying cause i dont care and even then the winrate was pretty good. And other battleaxes ? Their winrate tend to suck. The problem sometimes really isn´t in the weapon.

      Warbow is ungodly strong in strong hands, but very weak in weak hands.

      The win x loss ratio does not really mean much, and i hope sbi works with that. For look at black hands - they are op. Their loss ratio is rather high, but you can play them with 0 skill and low gear and still destroy people. Just because the winrate isn´t high, it doesn´t mean it´s fine.

      So yeah, win x loss rate doesn´t mean much in this game.

      And backoff, just stop. Or go play corrupted dungeons and practice in stalker.
      My YT channel - Solo greataxe killing everything https://www.youtube.com/user/DhaosNK/video=7
    • @Borbarad, now it's clear) A lot of text, but there is no any brain-activity in it. No arguments, just some personal exp. with playing battle axe) Okay.
      Just a little fact - stats of 10k players(even with some fault range) is always more informative than experience, you've got "when you play battle-axe".
      All your post really have 0 bytes of usable info.

      Accept one phrase:

      Borbarad wrote:

      Let´s be real. Warbow players are ... trash.
      It allows to conclude that you are an idiot)
      Sorry, but I not interested in talks with idiots. Bye.
    • Overwhelming majority of warbow players are extremely bad. That´s a fact. Just look at you in that video - that was EXTREMELY horrible gameplay and you cant even accept that ? Since that is the case, there isn´t much to say.

      And win x loss ratio doesnt say much, but yeah, no point saying anything, since you dont even read anything. Maybe instead of lurking on forum, try to play the game .
      My YT channel - Solo greataxe killing everything https://www.youtube.com/user/DhaosNK/video=7
    • FriendlyFire wrote:

      This is why the warbow is A-tier. It is actually competitive and usable at high infamy, while large swaths of weapons are unusable as even you admit.It's not S-tier, the meta, but it's good and usable. So A-tier.
      "Tier A" is too abstract. I faced WB players not more often than fire-staff) Mostly using T7 gir. Badon - yes. Happens. Regular bow - more often than badon. WB 1-5 times for a month.
      But yeah. It still breathing somehow. And if you call it "Tier A" - let it be. But looks like @Retroman wanna "fix" it again) Why should I fix some crossbow, which allows any novice to kill by one button clicking if I can nerf warbow again?)))

      FriendlyFire wrote:

      BackOFF wrote:

      - Spear? Really? The only spear that is easy to kill is one shot pike. But only while it will not switch to a harpoon. Avalian\Regular Spear - the same mobility + harpoon. Impossible to kite. Trading with that is the same as write /suicide. Trinity. Again, jump + hook + insane damage. Impossible to fight, very hard to kite. Heron. This matchup is more dependent on players skill. But again harpoon + root... And all of them doesn't care about your multishot because of attack range.
      ? You already posted a video of you beating the avalonian spear (and them escaping with crystals). It also showed that you could easily multishot them out of the spears range. The avalonian and trinity spears have mobility on their E, but both are short distances and slow, hardly moving you farther then walking would have.
      Even if they harpoon you, you just frost-shot away. Otherwise you can keep distance with multishot and pick away. I admit there is less room for error against spears then things like swords, but bow still will have the advantage and should win when played well.

      BackOFF wrote:

      - Every dagger... BloodLetter(faster, stronger), dagger pair(depends on his skill. One shadow blade hit and you lose 2\3 of HP), solo-dagger can just one-shot you via royal helm, but I didn't meat them after a fix of gatherer boots.
      You run guardian helm and invis jacket. Click either of them when they throw shadow blade out and you're fine. Negate much/all of the damage, and then enjoy wailing on them while they wait for it to come off cooldown again. You could do the same thing with a gig/resist pot as well.

      BackOFF wrote:

      CROSSBOW? Just try to kite that:
      Deadlyshot outranges anything crossbows have (as does warbow E) and crossbows have literally 0 mobility. You can literally just poke them to death. Or you can copy wezty and man fight them, using multishot to cancel their channels.
      I agree with you that crossbows are annoying as hell, with the huge damage they get by just pressing Q every 5 seconds. Bows are both the one weapon that can outrange them, and also one of the only weapons with an interrupt on Q. Making them uniquely good against crossbows.

      I'd consider crossbows S-tier, personally. Certainly will be after the incoming QS nerf.
      Look, I see, that you didn't play it. Not so far ago I told something like that about a bloodletter, while try it out. It is not so simple, as you think. try it. And try to get at least 1kk of infame. It is not too much, but you will feal, how "IMBA" is it today.

      By the way. I agree with the 5s multishot CD. It's really auto-lose for several builds(sword, fire mage, etc). The issue is - he does not give anything in return. Just make a weak weapon weaker and that's all.
      Daggers are not so simple. Yes, you can easily kill some black-hands player, who knows F -> W -> E -> W -> R -> D(repeat) combo only. Even if he can press "1" in addition to that. But if a BH player smart enough to switch skills to regular run + shadow blade - it becomes a big issue. Not impossible to kill, but very dangerous. But you will not understand, what is that experience, while you will not try. No sense to explain it now.
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      >Run until your opponent makes a fatal mistake: the meta.Hahahahha, damn this is fucked up.
      I'm afraid it's inevitable if we have different weapons, which affects, or don't your movement speed. But if we will not - it will be poor gameplay.
      But what is really fucked up:
      - Hello! I'm a bear puffs abuser. I can reset forever. At the same time, I'm good in trade. At the same time can abuse a mercenary jacket, which makes me tanky. And it's only in the context of 1x1 pvp. At the same time, I'm a top solo-farming class. At the same time, I'm one of the top small-scale damage dealers. At the same, every ZVZ squad will glad to see me in it.

      Can you find at least something similar to a balance in there?)))

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BackOFF ().

    • The only reason why warbow isnt in top cd is because it is boring af
      ! mean u just kite around and most top cd players dont play cd for silver gain, however warbow or bows in general are very popular in mid tier cd becuase most ppl there play for silver gain. ez wins against melee because WB is broken
    • lilsam wrote:

      The only reason why warbow isnt in top cd is because it is boring af
      ! mean u just kite around and most top cd players dont play cd for silver gain, however warbow or bows in general are very popular in mid tier cd becuase most ppl there play for silver gain. ez wins against melee because WB is broken
      the reason why warbow is not in top infame is he cant outrun bearpaws and QS.
      people have to understand skills are not = infame but how u pick fights.
    • @lilsam, @UNFM I don't know how to talk with you. It will be a little strange, I think, if I will describe a soviet taxi driver, how does Volga rides. There were two experienced warbow players at the thread(as I know). And both said that it is almost killed. But you guys, who don't have any understanding about it, of course, know better. Okay. Let it be.
      @UNFM, you are a cool expert, but just for remark. QS is not a counter pick for WB.

      I don't see a reason to continue this thread. Because it will not leed to anythiong. Anyway...
      • Multishot (all Bows)
        • Cooldown: 4s -> 5s

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Evas_Flarelight: Please keep the discussion civil. I've edited out the last part since it's not constructive. ().

    • The Whole Problem Of the Albion is the most OF the Melee Weapons Have So much Mobility that they can Run from Any fight they want.
      Q Should have Movement Speed Only if You Hit Players
      2 Q of Daggers=One Frost Shot
      Q of QS HAVE for 5 sec 30% ms=SPEED ARROW FOR 5sec 20%

      MY OPINION YEAP MULTISHOT NEEDS NERF
      BUT ALSO ALMOST ALL Q OF MELEE NEED NERF
      The game Should Have Mechanic that IF you land Your E AT the right Time AS Range Should Be able to Hunt down Someone
      AND THAT SHOULD BE FOR ALL RANGE WEAPONS

      SO I PUT DOWN A FIGHT QS VS WARBOW
      1)QS HAVE Q THAT IF HE TAKES DMG RUNS FOR 5 SEC 30% MS and Small LEAP
      2)RUN STUN=5 sec 30% MS
      3)E=RANGE 15m 20cd

      WARBOW
      1)Q MULTISHOT=KNOCKBACK every 4 sec BUT IF the enemy HAVE GOOD RES CC it doesn't do much
      2)W FROST SHOT=SLOW AND 10 METERS LEAP with CASTING TIME

      SO in 1v1 fight without Trying to reset the Fight
      the QS have 3 SPELLS FOR MS
      WHILE WARBOW 2

      BUT IF QS IS ABOUT TO RESET FIGHT
      IS ABOUT 3 MS SPELLS VS WARBOW THAT HAVE 1
      SO HOW YOU CAN OUTRAN SOMEONE THAT HAVE 3 MS SPELLS WHILE HAVING 1

      ALSO ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT RANGE WEAPONS NEED TO HAVE RANGE BETWEEN THE MELEES SO THE DON"T GET BURST DOWN BUT THE DAMAGE THAT THE MELEE WEAPONS GOT
      SO ADD ALSO 15 METERS + 3 MOVEMENT SPEED SPELLS VS 1 MOVEMENT SPELL
      Thats my thoughts.....
    • Kinggeo7 wrote:

      The Whole Problem Of the Albion is the most OF the Melee Weapons Have So much Mobility that they can Run from Any fight they want.
      Q Should have Movement Speed Only if You Hit Players
      2 Q of Daggers=One Frost Shot
      Q of QS HAVE for 5 sec 30% ms=SPEED ARROW FOR 5sec 20%

      MY OPINION YEAP MULTISHOT NEEDS NERF
      BUT ALSO ALMOST ALL Q OF MELEE NEED NERF
      The game Should Have Mechanic that IF you land Your E AT the right Time AS Range Should Be able to Hunt down Someone
      AND THAT SHOULD BE FOR ALL RANGE WEAPONS

      SO I PUT DOWN A FIGHT QS VS WARBOW
      1)QS HAVE Q THAT IF HE TAKES DMG RUNS FOR 5 SEC 30% MS and Small LEAP
      2)RUN STUN=5 sec 30% MS
      3)E=RANGE 15m 20cd

      WARBOW
      1)Q MULTISHOT=KNOCKBACK every 4 sec BUT IF the enemy HAVE GOOD RES CC it doesn't do much
      2)W FROST SHOT=SLOW AND 10 METERS LEAP with CASTING TIME

      SO in 1v1 fight without Trying to reset the Fight
      the QS have 3 SPELLS FOR MS
      WHILE WARBOW 2

      BUT IF QS IS ABOUT TO RESET FIGHT
      IS ABOUT 3 MS SPELLS VS WARBOW THAT HAVE 1
      SO HOW YOU CAN OUTRAN SOMEONE THAT HAVE 3 MS SPELLS WHILE HAVING 1

      ALSO ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT RANGE WEAPONS NEED TO HAVE RANGE BETWEEN THE MELEES SO THE DON"T GET BURST DOWN BUT THE DAMAGE THAT THE MELEE WEAPONS GOT
      SO ADD ALSO 15 METERS + 3 MOVEMENT SPEED SPELLS VS 1 MOVEMENT SPELL
      Thats my thoughts.....
      You're missing the fact that these suggestions you're making, massively revolve around 1v1s and does not consider how it can impact smallscale / largescale content within the game.
    • j0ei By change the mobility of same weapons can change not only in 1v1 but also in small scale pvp or ZvZ
      but Also there The Melee Weapons Change the spells to Damage Spells not to MS spells because The ZvZ is about Damage Mostly.
      So what i am Saying wouldn't change the Meta on smallscale PvP or ZvZ but it will On 1v1.
      One Example...
      The Frost Weapon had 0 MS SPELLS
      By adding the W that can Blink it became Viable + Q that can slow
      But After Adding to The Most melee Weapons a Q that can provide Movement Speed they became Top tier mobility Weapons.
      So the Q that have MS BUFF to be removed Or give to all Weapons A Q that HAVE TO DO with MS
      And Multishot is not a Q that Have to DO with MS because it can't be used for Attack Only for Defence
      If the poison Q in Bows Had slow maybe it would be even or unbalance
      So better No Q to Have MS BUFF OR LEAP. ONLY FOR THE CASTER TO BE HAVING THE SLOW EFFECT if FAIR
    • Kinggeo7 wrote:

      j0ei By change the mobility of same weapons can change not only in 1v1 but also in small scale pvp or ZvZ
      but Also there The Melee Weapons Change the spells to Damage Spells not to MS spells because The ZvZ is about Damage Mostly.
      So what i am Saying wouldn't change the Meta on smallscale PvP or ZvZ but it will On 1v1.
      One Example...
      The Frost Weapon had 0 MS SPELLS
      By adding the W that can Blink it became Viable + Q that can slow
      But After Adding to The Most melee Weapons a Q that can provide Movement Speed they became Top tier mobility Weapons.
      So the Q that have MS BUFF to be removed Or give to all Weapons A Q that HAVE TO DO with MS
      And Multishot is not a Q that Have to DO with MS because it can't be used for Attack Only for Defence
      If the poison Q in Bows Had slow maybe it would be even or unbalance
      So better No Q to Have MS BUFF OR LEAP. ONLY FOR THE CASTER TO BE HAVING THE SLOW EFFECT if FAIR
      • Q stacks from swords gives movement speed bonuses but does not actually travel faster unless you have stacks constantly for that flat bonus ms
      • Quarterstaff tree cartwheel has distance travelling for a Q along with bonus ms and resist if taking damage during cartwheel
      • Dagger tree's deadly swipe which has distance travelling and does decent damage every 4 seconds
      • Axes dont have mobility from Q, it comes from adrenaline boost.
      • Frost staff blink is (W) not Q and it's not a melee weapon.
      • Spears don't have mobility bonuses from Qs
      • Hammers Q don't have mobility, slowing charge is a (W) ability
      • Maces Q don't have mobility, snare charge is a (W) ability that can be used to catch / cc someone
      Out of all these there are only actually 2 melee weapons that have Qs that offer mobility.

      And also, why are you making equivalent comparison of Qs from Ws? these are two different skill-slots. When you make comparisons about mobility in terms of skills then you should compare about skills in the same "skill slot"

      Q of spear has more range than Q of swords in terms of reach whereas the sword has a circular radius but the spear has a straight line for its hitbox. (This is an example of how you should compare Qs)

      Q multishot of a bow makes it strong against melee classes due to the knockback it provides which is a good form of peel, it is not a mobility Q but rather, a crowdcontrol and damage ability.

      You do NOT, compare the Q of a dagger to a frost nova blink of the frost staff. Frost staff is NOT a melee weapon, and the frost nova is a (W) not a Q.
      You do NOT, compare the Q of a dagger to a FROST SHOT of the bow weapons. Bows are NOT a melee weapon, and FROST SHOT is a (W) not a Q.
      You CAN compare the W blink of frost staff with W of the bow frost shot. Both offer mobility, the frost nova has i-frame and interrupt while the frost shot only has a casted disengage with a slow.
      You CAN compare the adrenaline boost of an axe with the "slowing charge" W of a hammer or a stunrun W of a QS. In this way you can easily see what abilities make the class unique from each other.
      You CAN compare how the adrenaline boost of axes can allow itself to catch up against bows, and on top of (if using bear paws, the leaping razor cuts for that damage and gap closer that has a 30 second cooldown if it misses) ofcourse it can catch up to some classes, but that's only the bear paws itself, other axes would not have the same mobility or chase potential that the specific weapon mentioned has to offer. You simply cannot CHASE a warbow with multishot as a "halberd" with adrenaline boost for example.

      If every class had the same mobility type of Q and W then you would have very little diversity in terms of skill-setup.

      Each class has their owns strengths and weaknesses.

      Crossbow for example, has no form of mobility in any of its toolkit, but carries one of the strongest dps single-target Qs in the game (autofire) and a decent AoE skill-shot (explosive bolt)


      How did you deduce that "The Whole Problem Of the Albion is the most OF the Melee Weapons Have So much Mobility that they can Run from Any fight they want."

      The post was edited 1 time, last by j0ei ().

    • Multishot needs nerf, and more than that.

      To have CC along with massive aoe damage - who thought that was a good idea ? if there is CC, the damage shouldn´t be high, duh.

      Either way, what is with all these brain dead bow players ? It´s like they live in a different plane of existence, it´s actually rather interesting.
      My YT channel - Solo greataxe killing everything https://www.youtube.com/user/DhaosNK/video=7