Changes for Guild Season 11

    • 20v20 will be dead on arrival unless you make the following changes:
      • Lvl 1 20v20 daily, people need practice beyond scrims that are cancer to set up
      • Individual player rewards need to go way up. Nobody is winning a season off 5v5/20v20 alone anymore, mercing died with point caps, we need to actually get something out of these.
      • Timers need to not be all at the exact same time. There needs to be a lvl 2-3-4 gauntlet and 2-3 on weekends where there isn't a lvl 4. Stagger them by a half hour or nobody will get past lvl 4 without matching us
      • Announce offseason tournament so people give a shit enough to make a real team (or just add back cities and fix their problems dipshits), please please please I don't want to just 190-0 everyone all season it will be so boring, not trying to be cocky this is just the reality of 20v20. I've been spending hours each day coaching / doing VOD review for several teams trying to help them improve just so we get some competition. If good teams don't come up and challenge the top, people will lose interest / hope.
      • Allow teams to queue with up to 5 players lacking the proper token. Even making 1-4 tradeable isn't enough. A 18v20 in lvl 6 will be aids lol, nobody wants that, make all tokens tradeable or add this system ASAP.
      • Move the timer to 1 hour before the 5v5 timers, not 1 hour after (14UTC right after 13UTC 5v5). Level 6 5v5 shouldn't be at the same time as lvl 4 20v20, that's just ridiculous.
        • The better solution to this would be to make 20v20s have the high levels on Sunday, and 5v5 on Saturday, so you can put them at the same time and it wont cause issues.
      • IP caps are fucked. Level 4 every 2 weeks should not be a 6.1 80% cap. This is just a lazy copy paste from 5v5, Lvl 2 should be 1100, lvl 3 1300, lvl 4 1500, lvl 5 1600, lvl 6 1700
      • Fix the 17 and 17:30 timer, there’s not enough time between matches, for the last 20v20 of the season


      UNRELATED TO THE ABOVE:

      Removing cities was a mistake. They needed to be reworked for sure, but removing them will kill so much content (zvz content, not 20v20) in the game. Heres what a proper cities rework would look like:
      • IP Caps
        • Martlock and Caerleon: 1000
        • Thetford and Bridgewatch: 1300
        • Lymhurst and Fort Sterling: Uncapped
        • IP caps are now 80% cap (Previously 50%)
      • City Payouts: No longer tied to plot auctions.
        • Martlock and Caerleon: 15m / day
        • Thetford and Bridgewatch: 30m / day
        • Lymhurst and Fort Sterling: 50m / day
        • (Total 190m / day, current cities output 413.5m)
      • Fix warcamp timers (Thetford has 4 warcamps at 18utc, 0 at 3 UTC, wtf its an NA city....)
      Not saying this needs to happen, but it would help give players motivation to improve at 20v20 rather than just queue up for shits once a weekend and never challenge the top teams. By releasing 20v20 crystals you just fixed the problem with cities, but remove them anyway, legit makes no sense.
      IGN: DungeonRealms

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Disregard ().

    • "With the introduction of the 20v20 Crystal League we will also remove the 20v20 city fights. The reason for this change is, we were not happy with the dynamic around city fights and city ownership. Typically one guild, the one with the strongest 20v20 team, would control all cities for a massive passive silver income. This was a very elitist feature where the only entry point was via challenging the current champion. With the new 20v20 Crystal League, we will now be able to keep the exciting high stakes 20v20 matches and link rewards only to matches won, while also allowing for a much more open entry-level experience."


      Bom, já que vai remover as lutas 20v20 de cidades, tira também os campos de cerco da zonas vermelhas; não será mais necessário se olhar por este angulo.

      'Well, since it will remove the 20v20 fights from cities, it also removes the siege fields from the red zones; it will no longer be necessary to look from this angle.'
    • Retroman wrote:

      Hey, i just wanted to give you an update about some of the adjustments we have made after the community feedback we received:


      Castle Season Points
      They score Season points 4 times a day:
      • Daily at 0 UTC
      • Daily at 6 UTC
      • Daily at 12 UTC
      • Daily at 18 UTC
      Season Points are also adjusted to give the same total value daily. So every 6 hours a inner ring castle generates 270 Season Points




      Cheers,
      Retro
      15 UTC was one of the best timers , think about move 12 to 14-15 UTC it's more comfortable for SEA, ty.
    • @Retroman

      I expect you have a decent playerbase thats from central and western europe.
      21 utc is the primetime for EU, and the main activity is there

      18 utc for central and west europe is a terrible timezone since its 18-19 pm.

      Most eat dinner in that time, and with group zvz you also group up typically a hour before livetime.

      18 utc livetimer is terrible, while anything from 19-21is a ton better.

      Just look at the zerg numbers fighting at 18 compared to 21, and the problem is really that for most central and west euros there literally is no timezone that fits a normal life schedule.

      Move the 18 utc to anything between 19 and 21 and a lot more players would be catered for.
    • Hey, here are some more adjustments:


      20v20 Crystal League Item Power Cap

      Level 1900 (hard-capped)Non-Lethal
      Level 2900 -> 1,100Full Loot
      Level 31,100 -> 1,300Full Loot
      Level 41,300 -> 1,500Full Loot
      Level 51,500 -> 1,600Full Loot
      Level 61,700Full Loot




      Daily Limits
      Matches availableSeason Point Limit (5v5)Season Point Limit (20v20)
      up to level 2500 -> 600500 -> 1,000
      up to level 3500 -> 6002,000 -> 4,000
      up to level 4500 -> 6007,000 -> 10,000
      up to level 51,000 -> 1,50022,000 -> 25,000
      up to level 62,000 -> 4,00072,000 -> 75,000
      up to level 75,000 -> 7,000-
      up to level 813,000 -> 15,000-
      up to level 948,000 -> 50,000-




      Cheers,
      Retro

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Retroman ().

    • Just to be clear the intent is that good 5v5 guilds and 20v20 guilds cant what win season without fighting ZvZ?

      instead of hard caps, perhaps a 50% soft cap at X points per day, then at Y points a 80% softcap.

      i say this just because some people enjoy different content, i can already guess guilds probably cutting back the number of CGvG teams only letting the good ones train and fight.

      Also, i think this should go both ways, like ZvZ and World Boss objectives should have soft caps, so you cant just zerg your way through a season, got to field 5v5 and 20v20 teams.


      Edit: random thoughts in my head

      Assume you have 2 5v5 teams in crystals, 10
      2 20 v 20 teams 10+ 40 =50
      then field another 100 at castles 150 ppl accounted for and thats only 1 timer, some may do a second, but it is pretty clear that having people around for multiple timers, and multiple contents is advantageous to producing points. But if you soft capped points from ZvZ objectives, there could be a reduced player demand on guilds - thus lean smaller guilds could wouldnt be completely shut out, because the big guilds already hit their softcap for ZvZ so smaller guilds can then maybe get points without needing to field 400 players across 2 alliances to have a shot.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by blappo ().

    • 5v5 Crystal League Problem
      • The rewards for winning often don't offset the losses, especially at the lower levels. (Winning at level 3 but playing healer and losing 2x Robe of Purity = net loss)
      5v5 Crystal League Solution
      • Increase the individual player rewards from playing Crystal League, this will help promote more players to play it & prevent people giving up due to the cost of competing.
    • Retroman wrote:

      Hey, here are some more adjustments:


      20v20 Crystal League Item Power Cap

      Level 1900 (hard-capped)Non-Lethal
      Level 2900 -> 1,100Full Loot
      Level 31,100 -> 1,300Full Loot
      Level 41,300 -> 1,500Full Loot
      Level 51,500 -> 1,600Full Loot
      Level 61,700Full Loot



      Daily Limits
      Matches availableSeason Point Limit (5v5)Season Point Limit (20v20)
      up to level 2500 -> 600500 -> 1,000
      up to level 3500 -> 6002,000 -> 4,000
      up to level 4500 -> 6007,000 -> 10,000
      up to level 51,000 -> 1,50022,000 -> 25,000
      up to level 62,000 -> 4,00072,000 -> 75,000
      up to level 75,000 -> 7,000-
      up to level 813,000 -> 15,000-
      up to level 948,000 -> 50,000-



      Cheers,
      Retro
      Alright the IP caps are good now... ty for listening there

      5v5 point caps are still too low. One team should not be able to get more points in a day then the cap has in total. (Unless the cap stacks up, so on lvl 7 days is the actual number 7000+4000+1500+600+600+600?, that would be ok)
      Lvl 2-3 day caps are fine
      Lvl 4 days are low. SO many players can compete and win lvl 4s easily, but 1 tean can pass the cap on their own (by playing all 3 timers, but they can get close playing 2, which most teams do anyway)
      Lvl 5 days same thing, 700 points for back to back wins = 2100 on the day. These caps needed to be multiplied by 2 from what they are now. This system is created to prevent guilds from purely getting rank 1 based on 5v5s right, but the issue is that this will completely take 5v5 out of the equation, because you only have to pay 2-3 weaker teams to hit the cap for you, and no matter how good your opponent is, they cant even get a tiny lead in points based on the thing they are best at. A guild that builds a community of strong players should have something to show for it. The current system will tear these communities apart and make players like myself out right quit crystal league in the future seasons. I 100% plan to play very little if at all if these changes go through, I was only playing this season to help my guild get crystal
      Everything im saying applies to lvl 6 and 7 as well. 8 and 9 look fine since any guild with multiple teams at that level is probably pretty up there in points anyway.

      For 20v20, these numbers look solid now. 1.5 teams is 30 players, while 1 team for 5v5 is 5 players. 5v5 point caps are still a major issue.
      IGN: DungeonRealms
    • Robinhoodrs wrote:

      Outter ring castles now only give 80 season points per tick?.. Yet a world boss gives that but every 30 minutes? So what's the point in massing 100 people for a castle that you can get points equal to a world boss that takes 10 people to do?

      I think the new values for castles per "tick" will kill off castles now, seems pointless to even go for them.

      Also the loot being reduced from an already shit loot table is a meme to me.

      Retroman wrote:

      Robinhoodrs wrote:

      Outter ring castles now only give 80 season points per tick?.. Yet a world boss gives that but every 30 minutes? So what's the point in massing 100 people for a castle that you can get points equal to a world boss that takes 10 people to do?

      I think the new values for castles per "tick" will kill off castles now, seems pointless to even go for them.

      Also the loot being reduced from an already shit loot table is a meme to me.
      The value of a castle is dependent on the time it is hold. The more time slots we offer the less value we can provide per time stot. So we are looking for a balance between having enough time slots to be as inclusive as possible for our global player base. While still trying to consolidate time slots as much as possible to keep per Season Poiint tick / chest as high as possible.
      But even with the 6 hours cycle, a castle will generate slightly more points each cycle, than a territory over the whole day.
      So if a territory generates 240 points a castle will generate 270 points.

      So the daily Season Point value, will increase by 1.5 in Season 11. 1,080 points a day for an inner circle castle.
      And the weekly loot value of a castle stays unchanged form the value it had in Season 10. But instead of getting paid out in 2 chests, it is now getting paid out in 3 chests.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      Great changes Retro!
    • Hey everyone, here are some further adjustments:

      Castle Outposts

      Changing Castle Outpost schedules to fully overlap with castles, to put more pressure on big forces to split up to secure multiple objectives.
      • Season Points score now every 3 hours:
        • 0 UTC, 3 UTC, 6 UTC, 9 UTC, 12 UTC, 15 UTC, 18 UTC, 21 UTC
      • An inner ring castle outpost will score 48 season points every 3 hours.
      • The chest spawns in a 6 hour interval
        • 0 UTC, 6 UTC, 12 UTC, 18 UTC


      20v20 Crystal League Schedule
      Ok, we increased the schedule to allow for daily level 1 matches. We are not sure if we will get these populated enough, but i guess if we don't offer the time slot we'll never find out. :)

      Level 1 Matches: every Saturday and Sunday -> Daily
      Level 2 Matches: every Saturday and Sunday -> every Friday, Saturday and Sunday

      Cheers,
      Retro
    • Retroman wrote:

      Hey everyone, here are some further adjustments:

      Castle Outposts

      Changing Castle Outpost schedules to fully overlap with castles, to put more pressure on big forces to split up to secure multiple objectives.
      • Season Points score now every 3 hours:
        • 0 UTC, 3 UTC, 6 UTC, 9 UTC, 12 UTC, 15 UTC, 18 UTC, 21 UTC
      • An inner ring castle outpost will score 48 season points every 3 hours.
      • The chest spawns in a 6 hour interval
        • 0 UTC, 6 UTC, 12 UTC, 18 UTC


      20v20 Crystal League Schedule
      Ok, we increased the schedule to allow for daily level 1 matches. We are not sure if we will get these populated enough, but i guess if we don't offer the time slot we'll never find out. :)

      Level 1 Matches: every Saturday and Sunday -> Daily
      Level 2 Matches: every Saturday and Sunday -> every Friday, Saturday and Sunday

      Cheers,
      Retro
      Ok, we are getting somewhere, this is all good changes
      Now I need you to stagger the lvl 3 and 4 timers by a half hour each so that we can play gauntlet on weekends like we do in 5v5. Having to play a lvl 3 one week to then play the level 4 the next week without having another chance to win the lvl 3 is going to cause teams to get stuck on the lower levels.
      Also, we need to see individual player rewards, and they likely need a buff. Same with 5v5. If we can't have a real impact on the season via 20v20 and 5v5, we need another incentive. If personal rewards stay this bad after the point nerf and cap, I don't see myself playing 5v5 next season, and will just play 20v20 because its new.
      IGN: DungeonRealms
    • Retroman wrote:

      Hey everyone, here are some further adjustments:

      Castle Outposts

      Changing Castle Outpost schedules to fully overlap with castles, to put more pressure on big forces to split up to secure multiple objectives.
      • Season Points score now every 3 hours:
        • 0 UTC, 3 UTC, 6 UTC, 9 UTC, 12 UTC, 15 UTC, 18 UTC, 21 UTC
      • An inner ring castle outpost will score 48 season points every 3 hours.
      • The chest spawns in a 6 hour interval
        • 0 UTC, 6 UTC, 12 UTC, 18 UTC


      20v20 Crystal League Schedule
      Ok, we increased the schedule to allow for daily level 1 matches. We are not sure if we will get these populated enough, but i guess if we don't offer the time slot we'll never find out. :)

      Level 1 Matches: every Saturday and Sunday -> Daily
      Level 2 Matches: every Saturday and Sunday -> every Friday, Saturday and Sunday

      Cheers,
      Retro
      Daily 20v20 is awesome! Good news for many
    • F a 20v20 crystal league... just make terries 20v20 already and bring back cities. Also shouldnt nerf cgvg that hard...ppl gunna buy season other ways anyway...What u need to do with ranking is make it so TOP X get X RANK (not make it a static amount of pts needed) so ppl keep competing till the end of the season to stay at higher ranks and keep it interesting. Good changes on castles and world bosses it should bring more smaller scale content. @Retroman Cheers, Luke

      The post was edited 12 times, last by Lewke ().

    • Lewke wrote:

      F a 20v20 crystal league... just make terries 20v20 already and bring back cities. Also shouldnt nerf cgvg that hard...ppl gunna buy season other ways anyway...What u need to do with ranking is make it so TOP X get X RANK (not make it a static amount of pts needed) so ppl keep competing till the end of the season to stay at higher ranks and keep it interesting. Good changes on castles and world bosses it should bring more smaller scale content. @Retroman Cheers, Luke
      That idea was beign tought before, not sure why it never got into live.
    • Hey, we adjusted the time slots for the 20v20 Crystal League


      Because we assume there will be some overlap of the player base from 5v5 and 20v20 League, we moved any overlappeing timers. Now 20v20 matches will start one hour before the 5v5 timers for all time slots. We also adjusted the level 4s to be 30 minutes later, so it is possible to play first a level 3 and then directly chain a level 4 after.

      Token LevelMatch FrequencyTime Slot
      Level 1daily1 UTC
      14 UTC -> 12 UTC
      20 UTC -> 19 UTC
      Level 2every Friday, Saturday and Sunday1 UTC
      14 UTC -> 12 UTC
      20 UTC -> 19 UTC
      Level 3every Saturday1 UTC
      14 UTC -> 12 UTC
      20 UTC -> 19 UTC
      Level 4Saturday, every 2 weeks1 UTC -> 1:30 UTC
      14 UTC -> 12:30 UTC
      20 UTC -> 19:30 UTC
      Level 5Saturday, once a month17:00 UTC
      Level 6Last Saturday of the Season17:30 UTC






      After going through the feedback of the survey about the Crystal League timers, we decided to not change any timers for the existing 5v5 Crystal League. (If you didn't receive a survey, it was sent out to every player who played at least one Crystal League match in the last 30 days, to get feedback on this specific matter from the target audience.)

      I know some have been very vocal about the 1 UTC timer for 5v5, but in this survey we had again more support for the 2 UTC time slot. You also have to keep in mind that this time slot is also used by players from the US west coast, for whom 1 UTC is quite early. But we also used the data as an indicator for which times the 20v20 matches should be happening. And with so many activities in the game and a global player base it is very difficult to pick time slots everyone fully agrees with. And while that means this can be conflicting with the results of your personal time schedule, we try our best to pick the time slots that we think are the most inclusive to most players around the world.

      Thank you all for your feedback and the replies to the survey, it helped us improve the time schedule.

      Cheers,
      Retro

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Retroman ().