Reasons why RZ and BZ are more epty than ever despite increase in population: HCE, CD, Hideouts. Scouts and partially Roads: Risk x Reward.

    • Reasons why RZ and BZ are more epty than ever despite increase in population: HCE, CD, Hideouts. Scouts and partially Roads: Risk x Reward.

      Before Queen update, there was plenty of content in RZ and BZ. If one wanted to get the late game , he needed to travel to T8 - T7 zone. There were no shortcuts. One had to travel through x maps to reach T8 zone - and then he could play there, store the loot in warcamps there etc. That gave content to gankers and it was rather lively everywhere. It was unlikely to find deserted maps or locations.
      Those with territorries and outposts had some protection in zones - it was pretty alright. And then one had to get the loot back to town, which again posed some risk and gave content to gankers.
      No clue how HCE was spread at that time, but around that time it wasn´t a problem to find a faction fame farm group, even through random LFG ( even though that was mostly doomed to fail, but whatever :D ).
      2 v 2 and 5 v 5 hellgates were considered awesome for loot and fame, and they felt very rewarding to play.

      But this all changed with Queen and introduction of huge map and with introduction of hideouts. People were mad that suddenly, one had to travel way too many zones to reach T8. On top of that, there weren´t any banks apart few warcamps here and then. That meant one had to travel far too many maps, and couldn´t even store the loot because of lack of any banks - so it wasn´t really worth it going there, for one could do few solo dungeons and once he got rare drop, he would get to travel ALL the way back. Black zone cities were rather alright there, for one could store things there and made some nice cash with market there. But if one had no hideout, it simply wasn´t worth going to T8 zone - wheter it´s for dungeons or for gatherers, for one had no place to store the loot, and going back and forth ( which took a long amount of time) was by no means fun, even if one could easily evade gankers. Fortunately, after complaining that SBI should add more banks, they finally did it and one could suddenly go to T8 zones and such due to ability of being able to store loot and such. Though for some reasons, SBI didn´t put warcamps near the middle of the map ( Which i assumed was that a middle would eventually open, but that didn´t happen - so what´s the point of no banks being near the middle ? It just makes those zones inacessible to those without hideouts).

      Eventually over time, there were more and more hideouts. It´s not a suprising thing to see a zone with 10 or more hideouts. Trying to fight or gank someone in such zones is next to impossible. Even if you fight someone, people can easily respawn, gear up, and fight you again until you run out of mana. On top of that, naked people can zone out and loot stuff instantly - and you can´t really do anything about that. Some hideouts are placed near static dungeons to the point that once a group zone out, they can mount up and go to a safety of a hideout.
      That brings me to the issue of scouts. While scouts were a thing before queen, it wasn´t as widespread as it is now. Now, any better group will simply grab a scout to make it a safe experience. Having a hideout nearby means that scout simply go AFK at the entrance of a dungeon, turn on discord stream and he doesn´t even need to be there - people simply check if someone is on stream and then they can A out. It´s 100% safety. Once i saw a group of 8.3 people that had battle mounts on them in a dungeon - and why not, since it´s pretty much as safe as a blue zone. There is simply no way for them to be dived, thus it´s a safe experience.
      Scouts spread out more and more, and now they are pretty much everywhere. I used to dive group dungeons with few friends, and it was fun trying to fight while being outnumbered. But now ? There is no point diving in a BZ , because there are scouts everywhere. Before queen, having a scout was more difficult - because once scout died, he would have to travel all the way back. But now, he can simply respawn in a hideout and go back naked to scout in a dungeon and it will take him like 20 seconds.
      As for the RZ, it was somewhat possibly to dive people. Even if they had scouts, you could possibly gank them once they A out - as long as you had people who were able to dismount them, forcing them to fight you. But now that´s next to impossible. Why ? Due to Ava roads. Now a group can simply run into a road and it will remove the faction - and then they can simply go back and they will be without faction, safe and sound.

      And this brings me to Ava roads. I am not gonna get into a great loot from ava roads, as it´s a bit difficult to find people for it sometimes. However the gathering there gives way too much silver, and after maintenance, roads are swept and then they are rather empty usually. For a solo experience, it´s pretty good way to get cash - especially for gatherers. Healer and Dps and one can destroy smaller aspects. But i am not gonna get into ava roads, but rather to issues that they brought in.

      Before Ava roads, one always had to transport things from BZ / RZ back to town, or black zone town. That gave content to gankers, as one had to travel through various zones to reach the town. But ava roads changed it. Now, one can simply wait for a right ava road to pop up and instead of travelling through 8 zones or whatever - one can just jump into road and be right near town. That means no need to travel a lot, and it leads to BZ being more empty, and less content for gankers.

      And recently, Corrupted Dungeons were introduced to the game. Before Corrupted, i avoided hellgates like plague. Why ? Because i was afraid that if i were to play hellgates, i wouldn´t want to mess around in open world, for hellgates were filled with content, great loot and great fame - open world can´t compare to it. And when corrupted dungeons appeared, i tried them. And they were ... too good. Way too good. Insane Fame and Loot, while being practically safe as long as one had good pvp experience. Just fame farming there, one could easily net about 5 milion fame credits per hour, and over 3 milion silver per hour effortlessly just from PVE. For solo content, that´s too much. That´s insane.

      CD devaluates rest of the content in the game, because frankly : rest of the content can´t compare. I could do group dungeons, but why ? They don´t give such good fame and loot, i would have to travel deep into BZ, would have to deal other people who might want to farm only for like an hour, and then i would have to run all the way back with the loot.
      But CD ? I can go from a town , chain CD and do so many of them until my inventory is full of loot. I don´t have to travel anywhere, i can just go there and be done. No need to deal with people, wasting time travelling, and on top of that : you get brutal fame and silver.
      Why bother ganking solo, duo ganking, or group ganking ? The loot can´t compare at all when it comes to Corrupted Dungeons, and you don´t get any pve fame. CD are pretty much safe +- 3 mil silver and +- 5 mil fame credits per hour, and without a need to travel.

      And then we also have HCE. I have never done HCE, as i don´t like safe content in a full loot game. From what i heard, the silver and fame is brutal there. One grabs 8.3 masterpiece or 8.3 gear, learn how to do map, and go nuts. And it´s the same like with CD, but even worse. It´s completely safe. No need to travel. One can just spam lvl 15 map and that´s it ( not after recent patch, thankfully). No need to travel, learn pvp, no need to risk anything. One can simply learn how to do it, and he doesn´t have to venture to RZ or BZ, and after all : Why would he ? There is no incentive. HCE offers better fame and loot, one doesn´t risk dying in pvp or to gankers, one doesn´t have to pay for map and spend way too much time with boring travelling.
      Now seeing LFG, i wanted to just go with some newbies for fun to do faction - but there was nothing. Nobody wanted to do faction. It´s full of HCE.

      The problem is that there isn´t much of incentive to go to RZ and BZ. CD, hellgates, HCE and such simply offers way too high rewards. There is not much of a point going to RZ and BZ because it is not worth it. It´s only risk, but there is No reward.
      I liked group content - going with few friends and messing around in RZ and BZ, diving or fighting groups outnumbered, or just having fun with faction in RZ. Going to BZ was rewarding - diving group dungeons, or fighting solo with other gatherers for resources.

      But now ? It´s no longer a thing. BZ is empty, group dungeons are filled with scouts, hideouts anywhere makes ganking impossible unless one has a group ( and even then it´s often no good, due to so many hideouts everywhere). Ava Roads also decrease traffic in BZ, thus making ganking rather boring, for one might not encounter anyone in a long time.
      And people aren´t too keen on doing group content, instead rather doing BZ, or even HCE. And after all : Why wouldn´t they ? Spending hours of travelling, barely encountering people, diving dungeons only to see a scout and a group that A out and go into hideout - why bother with it ?

      And conclusion ? It´s a problem when safe and accessible content ( HCE, CD ) is more rewarding than venturing to dangerous places ( Bz or even RZ).
      Solo content should NEVER be as rewarding as group content.
      Safe content should NEVER be as rewarding as a risky content.
      If one needs to travel a long time to place and back, there should be incentive to do so - if there is none, why should one bother ? Either give incentive to people to go there, otherwise nobody will.
      Risky content should be risky. Scouts and many hideouts aren´t a risky content: It´s safe content.

      I would like to go into RZ and BZ and have some fun with a group. I would like to do ganking, or solo ganking again. But now as it is, it´s just not worth it. I hope things will change a bit. Change needs to be done to CD.
    • They can't really reverse the direction of HCE's at this point. There are people that are too invested in that type of play style so SBI isn't going to make any huge changes to that. I think it is important to keep players that aren't necessarily fans of PvP playing the game. HCE does that and it's overall pretty healthy for the game.

      Everything else I agree with you more or less. All of these changes they have made on their own don't seem like a big deal but when you put all this shit together you end up with empty BZ's. There def needs to be more consideration of these issues in future updates.
    • uhm scouts are a byproduct , i dont use a scout when im in a t7 group dungeon middle of nowhere, but if im in the only zone where gankers come to and dive 24/7 ima use one definitely, cause for the one dungeon you dive ive had already a 5th group trying to dive me, at the same time if youre trying to carry low spec people, people still want higher f/hr , so at that point you got a 1k ip healer vs a 2v2 700/700 hg team while at the same time theyre outgearing you.
      but wait you can bring a purge, but then the tank dies if he gets it, the dps does no dps cause its mostly frost etc., so yeah all the risk is on the people pveing cause they're usually the ones who arent playing for years and dont have a 400m nest egg to throw away
    • i'd argue that those gankers who were in groups of 10 camping portal zones before queen in 4.1 gear didnt have much of a rish being there. while they ganked solo players and got increddible loot.

      also i like to play solo or in small group more than in groups of 10+. and while i was transporting the only safe way was in a huge group where i had to bee quiet and listen to calls. so that was super tedious and i risked it a lot and went offten solo.

      i have no problem if i get ganked by 2 or 3 ppl in roads and they outplay me and i die but those 10v1 gankers where just annoying and i dont miss them at all.
    • You first try to say that BZ is empty and then u say "Trying to fight or gank someone in such zones is next to impossible. Even if you fight someone, people can easily respawn, gear up, and fight you again until you run out of mana".

      Yes man, BZ is made to be very hostile for lonely people and even for weak guilds that cant claim and defend their place in it, specially the zones near to the center.