Roads of Avalon Mapping & GPS Tools

    • Roads of Avalon Mapping & GPS Tools

      Hi everyone,

      We've been receiving a bunch of requests to approve third party programs that serve as a mapping and GPS tool for the Roads of Avalon. These programs enable players to map the roads and/or find an optimal route through them, which in turn, gives players who use the program a direct advantage (which is also PvP relevant) over others. As it falls under the first bullet point of our thread on third party software, this is clearly not allowed:

      Mytherceria wrote:

      Hey there,

      Sometimes cheat makers claim that their tools are allowed. Don't believe them. We want to make sure you are aware what additional tools you are allowed to use and which not. The following is most definitely not allowed:
      • Anything that gives you a direct benefit in PvE, gathering, or PvP is not allowed. For example, this includes any type of auto-inspect tool or any type of radar tool that displays the in-game nametags on a separate minimap. It would also include any type of "auto-scouting" tool that generates a discord message if it spots a player or something like that.


      Please refrain from using such tools, as this can be considered as a bannable offence.


      - Mytherceria & Support Team

      ------------------------


      Korn wrote:

      Hey there,

      here is a small clarification.
      • It is of course allowed to manually note down zone names and put them into a spreadsheet. Those notes can of course also be shared with other players. Manually literally means that you as a person make a manual note into a spreadsheet / on a piece of paper when you see the information on your screen, without the assistance of any special tool or software
      • What is not allowed is any sort of tool, script or mechanism that automatically extracts / gets the zone names and/or connections
      In case you are not sure if what you / your guild is doing is in line with the above, please contact our customer service.

      Mytherceria#3744
    • Thank you.
      Can you specify what types of "tools" fall under this rule? Obviously a packet-sniffing tool would, but what about a manual data entry tool, excel spreadsheet, or pen and paper, as taking the rule literally these would all fall under as well.
      ⚔⚔⚔⚔ Kova Co ⚔⚔⚔⚔
      ===================
      Fort Sterling Based Guild

      http://kovaco.tk/

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Tyveil ().

    • CaptainPando wrote:

      @Mytherceria Didnt you approve of this type of software from The Brave Newbies guild?
      Ours is not real time and we checked directly with Dero that nothing we are doing is violating the terms of service and we where told 100% it was not. Not sure about the others. But mango is in full compliance with TOS. It is really nothing more than a very advanced, user friendly, pretty spreadsheet lol.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Voltel ().

    • Tyveil wrote:

      or pen and paper, as taking the rule literally these would all fall under as well.
      When writing something down on pen and paper is a bannable offense, we have a problem.

      Fusionbomb wrote:

      If maps are being manually created/updated, I don't see how that would be a problem. Only if it's automated should it be a bannable offense.
      how is it any different? at what level of automation should it be bannnable? 10%? 50%? 90%? 100%?


      Everyone who is familiar with wormholes in eve saw this coming.
    • Voltel wrote:

      CaptainPando wrote:

      @Mytherceria Didnt you approve of this type of software from The Brave Newbies guild?
      Ours is not real time and we checked directly with Dero that nothing we are doing is violating the terms of service and we where told 100% it was not. Not sure about the others. But mango is in full compliance with TOS. It is really nothing more than a very advanced, user friendly, pretty spreadsheet lol.
      I would assume by manually making maps, you mean they are entering the routes themselves and not the gathered data for auto generating faster routes?
    • iRawn wrote:

      Voltel wrote:

      CaptainPando wrote:

      @Mytherceria Didnt you approve of this type of software from The Brave Newbies guild?
      Ours is not real time and we checked directly with Dero that nothing we are doing is violating the terms of service and we where told 100% it was not. Not sure about the others. But mango is in full compliance with TOS. It is really nothing more than a very advanced, user friendly, pretty spreadsheet lol.
      I would assume by manually making maps, you mean they are entering the routes themselves and not the gathered data for auto generating faster routes?
      Correct.
    • Zalrenic wrote:

      Fusionbomb wrote:

      If maps are being manually created/updated, I don't see how that would be a problem. Only if it's automated should it be a bannable offense.
      how is it any different? at what level of automation should it be bannnable? 10%? 50%? 90%? 100%?
      You're asking me how is exploring the map and updating a spreadsheet different from writing a program that automatically formulates paths based on packet sniffing?
      Fusionbomb - GM of Morbidly_Obese

      T8 Axe/Sickle/Pickaxe/Skinning/Stone
      T7 Fishing

      400 Holy Spec
    • Mytherceria wrote:

      Hi everyone,

      We've been receiving a bunch of requests to approve third party programs that serve as a mapping and GPS tool for the Roads of Avalon. These programs enable players to map the roads and/or find an optimal route through them, which in turn, gives players who use the program a direct advantage (which is also PvP relevant) over others. As it falls under the first bullet point of our thread on third party software, this is clearly not allowed:

      Mytherceria wrote:

      Hey there,

      Sometimes cheat makers claim that their tools are allowed. Don't believe them. We want to make sure you are aware what additional tools you are allowed to use and which not. The following is most definitely not allowed:
      • Anything that gives you a direct benefit in PvE, gathering, or PvP is not allowed. For example, this includes any type of auto-inspect tool or any type of radar tool that displays the in-game nametags on a separate minimap. It would also include any type of "auto-scouting" tool that generates a discord message if it spots a player or something like that.

      Please refrain from using such tools, as this can be considered as a bannable offence.


      - Mytherceria & Support Team
      All this does is disadvantage smaller groups, as any large group will still map holes for the same advantage anyways.
    • Fusionbomb wrote:

      Zalrenic wrote:

      Fusionbomb wrote:

      If maps are being manually created/updated, I don't see how that would be a problem. Only if it's automated should it be a bannable offense.
      how is it any different? at what level of automation should it be bannnable? 10%? 50%? 90%? 100%?
      You're asking me how is exploring the map and updating a spreadsheet different from writing a program that automatically formulates paths based on packet sniffing?
      Even that would be ok if you did not interact with the traffic in any way. Such as other data aggregate websites.
    • First off, I respect your decision and understand why you've taken this stance.

      However, as a long time EVE player who lives in Wormholes (a VERY similar concept to Roads for those that don't know) I would like to offer a counter argument. The problem of groups gaining an advantage by having a map is going to happen anyway. Larger groups are going to either track it by hand or develop internal tools or discord bots or whatever else. By explicitly allowing 3rd party mapping tools or even catering to them by offering an API like EVE does, will put more groups on equal footing. Granted, the solo player or very small group won't be as equipped as larger groups, but it will let them get closer than making this a bannable offense.

      In EVE we have tools like Pathfinder and Tripwire which serve exactly these purposes. The maps are kept internal to the groups that manage them, but the tool themselves are open for anyone in the game to use for free. As a wormholer, they are totally invaluable and can definitely offer a competitive advantage, but that competitive advantage wouldn't be there without someone in the group doing the work and mapping things out and having a good corp (guild) culture of keeping things clean. So even though it's a 3rd party tool, it becomes part of the game play.

      If Albion isn't going to offer a group based tool like Pathfinder or Tripwire similar to what you have done with the killboard and build board (which are 3rd party tools in EVE/MOBAs), I really implore you to reconsider this decision.
    • Myelinated wrote:

      Mytherceria wrote:

      Hi everyone,

      We've been receiving a bunch of requests to approve third party programs that serve as a mapping and GPS tool for the Roads of Avalon. These programs enable players to map the roads and/or find an optimal route through them, which in turn, gives players who use the program a direct advantage (which is also PvP relevant) over others. As it falls under the first bullet point of our thread on third party software, this is clearly not allowed:

      Mytherceria wrote:

      Hey there,

      Sometimes cheat makers claim that their tools are allowed. Don't believe them. We want to make sure you are aware what additional tools you are allowed to use and which not. The following is most definitely not allowed:
      • Anything that gives you a direct benefit in PvE, gathering, or PvP is not allowed. For example, this includes any type of auto-inspect tool or any type of radar tool that displays the in-game nametags on a separate minimap. It would also include any type of "auto-scouting" tool that generates a discord message if it spots a player or something like that.

      Please refrain from using such tools, as this can be considered as a bannable offence.

      - Mytherceria & Support Team
      All this does is disadvantage smaller groups, as any large group will still map holes for the same advantage anyways.
      I completely agree with you, many guilds have the tool and wont stop using it, because it's virtually undetectable if you don't have a copy of the .exe file...
      @Mytherceria could you please elaborate on how a mapping tool is different from what albion2d does when it maps the market? I can see it being a problem only if a selected group of people has access to it (and that's the current state of things), but if the resource (i.e. website) is publicly available and publicly open it doesn't give an advantage because everyone has access to it.
    • They could just secure their network traffic to make packet sniffing impossible, this is really the first step they should take. Any mapping tools that require manual entry I'm ok with, at least there is still some element of exploration.
      ⚔⚔⚔⚔ Kova Co ⚔⚔⚔⚔
      ===================
      Fort Sterling Based Guild

      http://kovaco.tk/