Roads of Avalon Mapping & GPS Tools

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    • Deathskills wrote:

      Voltel wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      WilliamP wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      I know someone who used it and it's free trial for 7days and has a paywall after that trial period.
      You are so woefully uninformed that you are conflating two different tools.
      So what part am i misunderstanding? The part that a 3rd party tool was made by a player or group of player and they are charging for it's access or that it's a mist mapper?
      no one is taking money I do not think.
      I know for a fact one was charging money since multiple people in my guild mention and discussed about the paywall and people complained about it on the reddit thread of that specific tool. Unfortunately I do not have a screenshot of the actual access asking for $.As far as I know, the tool that was using a paywall until really recently and they most probably removed it by now and the download too for sure since SBI took a stance on those tools.

      reddit thread in question:old.reddit.com/r/albiononline/…oam_roads_of_avalon_mapp/

      Multiple comments refer to a paywall being present to use the tool.
      Please read my response above to your first comments on this.
    • Reznok wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Voltel wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      WilliamP wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      I know someone who used it and it's free trial for 7days and has a paywall after that trial period.
      You are so woefully uninformed that you are conflating two different tools.
      So what part am i misunderstanding? The part that a 3rd party tool was made by a player or group of player and they are charging for it's access or that it's a mist mapper?
      no one is taking money I do not think.
      I know for a fact one was charging money since multiple people in my guild mention and discussed about the paywall and people complained about it on the reddit thread of that specific tool. Unfortunately I do not have a screenshot of the actual access asking for $.As far as I know, the tool that was using a paywall until really recently and they most probably removed it by now and the download too for sure since SBI took a stance on those tools.
      reddit thread in question:old.reddit.com/r/albiononline/…oam_roads_of_avalon_mapp/

      Multiple comments refer to a paywall being present to use the tool.
      Please read my response above to your first comments on this.
      Really sorry about this then, never saw the response previously... It did never loaded.
      Unfortunately though, doing monetization of a 3rd party tool that is used for xyz game can be considered rmt since it is charging for a service that does impact the gameplay of a player hence why the EVE mapper (forgot the name and know it was referred multiple times in this thread and on reddit) never charge for it due to this reason.
      At the end of the day, it is on SBI side of things to decide whether or not they want to allow this or not.
      Didn't know whether or not you received money or not for that. Just knew there was 7day trial+ payment to gain access.
      I just hope no one gets exploited and everybody follows the same rules tbh. I'm all for people making tools if they follow what is allowed.

      Sorry for this @Reznok, this confusion is 100% on my part due to not seeing your reply until this point.
      Your communication seems to show that you do want to help players more than just make a money pass imo.
    • SyBom wrote:

      starboy wrote:

      I think SBI should just make an official mapper so everyone has the same advantage that they can take / leveling the playing field
      Or completely block 3rd party app from sniffing packets because players/guild that are knowledgeable/developers/programmers could make an advantage out of this.
      I recently saw a resource/player radar from a Facebook group being develop, it shows stuff outside of player screen.
      That's called a map, and it destroys the point of the roads.
      imgur.com/lR59baGIt is not a map as you can see it literally requires you to manually put stuff in and as you can see it is not any map or anything close to it and is fully dependent on players going places and doing things.
    • Deathskills wrote:

      Reznok wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Voltel wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      WilliamP wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      I know someone who used it and it's free trial for 7days and has a paywall after that trial period.
      You are so woefully uninformed that you are conflating two different tools.
      So what part am i misunderstanding? The part that a 3rd party tool was made by a player or group of player and they are charging for it's access or that it's a mist mapper?
      no one is taking money I do not think.
      I know for a fact one was charging money since multiple people in my guild mention and discussed about the paywall and people complained about it on the reddit thread of that specific tool. Unfortunately I do not have a screenshot of the actual access asking for $.As far as I know, the tool that was using a paywall until really recently and they most probably removed it by now and the download too for sure since SBI took a stance on those tools.reddit thread in question:old.reddit.com/r/albiononline/…oam_roads_of_avalon_mapp/

      Multiple comments refer to a paywall being present to use the tool.
      Please read my response above to your first comments on this.
      It did never loaded.
      And just like that; all of my suspicions have been confirmed.

      Is paying for a teamspeak server RMT to you?
    • imo the issue is more so the how the data is used then the collection.

      using the exact data how given would be how a spreadsheet or collection of maps would be used.
      using the data to generate other possible route = the problem for me.

      since mapping 2 locations can now effect 100's of different paths and makes the mapping of the roads occur so much faster. Which is obv, what people who want to use this program want.
    • iRawn wrote:

      imo the issue is more so the how the data is used then the collection.

      using the exact data how given would be how a spreadsheet or collection of maps would be used.
      using the data to generate other possible route = the problem for me.

      since mapping 2 locations can now effect 100's of different paths and makes the mapping of the roads occur so much faster. Which is obv, what people who want to use this program want.
      So your issue is no longer automatic vs manual data input but instead with thinking critically about the data? Can't really say I'm terribly surprised.
    • WilliamP wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Reznok wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Voltel wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      WilliamP wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      I know someone who used it and it's free trial for 7days and has a paywall after that trial period.
      You are so woefully uninformed that you are conflating two different tools.
      So what part am i misunderstanding? The part that a 3rd party tool was made by a player or group of player and they are charging for it's access or that it's a mist mapper?
      no one is taking money I do not think.
      I know for a fact one was charging money since multiple people in my guild mention and discussed about the paywall and people complained about it on the reddit thread of that specific tool. Unfortunately I do not have a screenshot of the actual access asking for $.As far as I know, the tool that was using a paywall until really recently and they most probably removed it by now and the download too for sure since SBI took a stance on those tools.reddit thread in question:old.reddit.com/r/albiononline/…oam_roads_of_avalon_mapp/
      Multiple comments refer to a paywall being present to use the tool.
      Please read my response above to your first comments on this.
      It did never loaded.
      And just like that; all of my suspicions have been confirmed.
      Is paying for a teamspeak server RMT to you?
      apart of you legit trolling in this discussion so far.
      I can and will entertain you by answering.

      No a TS server wouldn't be rmt since it is a VC service that isn't offered by Albion and Albion does encourage people to use VC since they even have an official discord. There potentially would be legal issue if i would charge access to a TS server for people to go on to only do level 15 hce's for example. That would most probably fall under RMT. But if it's just a free access server, it wouldn't fall under it.

      Like how do you think albion 2d stays online? Someone is paying a server to host it. No issues there since it is provided access free of charge to people trying to use it the website.
    • Deathskills wrote:

      WilliamP wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Reznok wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Voltel wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      WilliamP wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      I know someone who used it and it's free trial for 7days and has a paywall after that trial period.
      You are so woefully uninformed that you are conflating two different tools.
      So what part am i misunderstanding? The part that a 3rd party tool was made by a player or group of player and they are charging for it's access or that it's a mist mapper?
      no one is taking money I do not think.
      I know for a fact one was charging money since multiple people in my guild mention and discussed about the paywall and people complained about it on the reddit thread of that specific tool. Unfortunately I do not have a screenshot of the actual access asking for $.As far as I know, the tool that was using a paywall until really recently and they most probably removed it by now and the download too for sure since SBI took a stance on those tools.reddit thread in question:old.reddit.com/r/albiononline/…oam_roads_of_avalon_mapp/Multiple comments refer to a paywall being present to use the tool.
      Please read my response above to your first comments on this.
      It did never loaded.
      And just like that; all of my suspicions have been confirmed.Is paying for a teamspeak server RMT to you?
      apart of you legit trolling in this discussion so far.I can and will entertain you by answering.

      No a TS server wouldn't be rmt since it is a VC service that isn't offered by Albion and Albion does encourage people to use VC since they even have an official discord. There potentially would be legal issue if i would charge access to a TS server for people to go on to only do level 15 hce's for example. That would most probably fall under RMT. But if it's just a free access server, it wouldn't fall under it.

      Like how do you think albion 2d stays online? Someone is paying a server to host it. No issues there since it is provided access free of charge to people trying to use it the website.
      I don't think I'm trolling. I think your opinions are sufficiently stupid that any genuine response to them would sound like trolling.

      You've completely failed to contrast a significant difference between charging for ROAM or charging for Teamspeak. ROAM and Teamspeak are both services not offered by Albion. Charging for VOIP server hosting is such a no-brainer that naturally you take for granted that money is changing hands away from SBI's hands despite whatever advantage it may offer. Fundamentally this is the same thing.

      How do you think Albion2d collects market data? Exactly the same way ROAM tracks portal locations.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Mytherceria: Removed section that shows the name of a hack tool ().

    • Except that ROAM does get real-time location of players and is charging to have info displays that was collected by sniffing...
      TS doesn't sniff for in-game data.

      And yet you still didn't refute the fact that albion 2d would get shut down if they would put their service behind a paywall even though it does require a server to stay up and available to everyone.

      If you doubt that Albion would tolerate someone opening a TS that charges for access to the TS just to do in-game content, be my guess to write and ask about it to support. I'm not gonna entertain this more since there is alternative to TS that exist, like skype and discord that are free to use.
    • WilliamP wrote:

      iRawn wrote:

      imo the issue is more so the how the data is used then the collection.

      using the exact data how given would be how a spreadsheet or collection of maps would be used.
      using the data to generate other possible route = the problem for me.

      since mapping 2 locations can now effect 100's of different paths and makes the mapping of the roads occur so much faster. Which is obv, what people who want to use this program want.
      So your issue is no longer automatic vs manual data input but instead with thinking critically about the data? Can't really say I'm terribly surprised.
      Not really, I perfer if neither existed. However when the data is used to create it's own pathways this is what can really cause larger guilds to do nothing and type in zones and get access.

      i'd rather none of these exist.

      However i thought voltel DB didn't do that, which is why i asked those questions.
    • Deathskills wrote:

      Except that ROAM does get real-time location of players and is charging to have info displays that was collected by sniffing...
      TS doesn't sniff for in-game data.

      And yet you still didn't refute the fact that albion 2d would get shut down if they would put their service behind a paywall even though it does require a server to stay up and available to everyone.

      If you doubt that Albion would tolerate someone opening a TS that charges for access to the TS just to do in-game content, be my guess to write and ask about it to support. I'm not gonna entertain this more since there is alternative to TS that exist, like skype and discord that are free to use.
      ROAM never charged for anything. We had a support request in that was asking if that was OK. The ToS only prohibits selling Virtual Benefits as defined in the ToS. Their statement was 100% about the functionality provided. We don't really get real time location of characters though. Just a random client id and discord name with current zone for portals. AlbionOnline2D does make money. They do it through advertising. The point of their message was that collecting data and/or finding optimal paths wouldn't be allowed. We are trying to get more clarification on what, if anything, is allowed as far as mapping goes.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by theblackavenger ().

    • Deathskills wrote:

      Except that ROAM does get real-time location of players and is charging to have info displays that was collected by sniffing...
      TS doesn't sniff for in-game data.

      And yet you still didn't refute the fact that albion 2d would get shut down if they would put their service behind a paywall even though it does require a server to stay up and available to everyone.

      If you doubt that Albion would tolerate someone opening a TS that charges for access to the TS just to do in-game content, be my guess to write and ask about it to support. I'm not gonna entertain this more since there is alternative to TS that exist, like skype and discord that are free to use.
      I do not believe any website or tracking system we are discussing gives real time player location and if it does that would be an issue but I do not think it does.
    • Sorry, but I find the premise of this discussion a bit silly.
      Sure, knowing portal connections, capacity and expiry is an advantage over someone who does not know it, but it is a question of whether the game is playable if you want to live in the roads.

      If you are not allowed to cooperate with guild mates about mapping how to get to and from your HO in an efficient manner, that would mean that everybody have to roam around randomly for hours to find the right way. It is also a no-brainer, that the longer you spend roaming full loot PvP areas, the higher the risk of meeting someone who will want to fight you; so if it is a banable offense to take an efficient route found and communicated by your friends then there will be very little trade or 'foot traffic' between HOs in the roads and the royal cities.

      If you are not allowed to map your way to and from your guild HO in the roads, there is no point setting up an HO. Then the roads will only be for excursions limited by the time left on the random portals you go through - because you have to make sure you can go back the way you came so you do not get stuck in no-man's land.

      As has been said by several others, we are not talking about having motion detectors, tracking of individual players, or having private CCTV systems installed on the roads. We are talking about whether it is practically possible to have and run a guild HO in the roads.
    • TSkebee wrote:

      Sorry, but I find the premise of this discussion a bit silly.
      Sure, knowing portal connections, capacity and expiry is an advantage over someone who does not know it, but it is a question of whether the game is playable if you want to live in the roads.

      If you are not allowed to cooperate with guild mates about mapping how to get to and from your HO in an efficient manner, that would mean that everybody have to roam around randomly for hours to find the right way. It is also a no-brainer, that the longer you spend roaming full loot PvP areas, the higher the risk of meeting someone who will want to fight you; so if it is a banable offense to take an efficient route found and communicated by your friends then there will be very little trade or 'foot traffic' between HOs in the roads and the royal cities.

      If you are not allowed to map your way to and from your guild HO in the roads, there is no point setting up an HO. Then the roads will only be for excursions limited by the time left on the random portals you go through - because you have to make sure you can go back the way you came so you do not get stuck in no-man's land.

      As has been said by several others, we are not talking about having motion detectors, tracking of individual players, or having private CCTV systems installed on the roads. We are talking about whether it is practically possible to have and run a guild HO in the roads.
      My guild has a perfectly working system to map the routes to and from our Hideout every few hours, without any sophisticated program or anything. Its actually not that hard or complicated either.

      So, there goes your entire argument.
      Gamer Dad. Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
    • Porowns wrote:

      This is something that you're never going to be able to enforce, therefore you just gave larger groups who have the development teams for these tools a major ad

      Korboz wrote:

      First off, I respect your decision and understand why you've taken this stance.

      However, as a long time EVE player who lives in Wormholes (a VERY similar concept to Roads for those that don't know) I would like to offer a counter argument. The problem of groups gaining an advantage by having a map is going to happen anyway. Larger groups are going to either track it by hand or develop internal tools or discord bots or whatever else. By explicitly allowing 3rd party mapping tools or even catering to them by offering an API like EVE does, will put more groups on equal footing. Granted, the solo player or very small group won't be as equipped as larger groups, but it will let them get closer than making this a bannable offense.

      In EVE we have tools like Pathfinder and Tripwire which serve exactly these purposes. The maps are kept internal to the groups that manage them, but the tool themselves are open for anyone in the game to use for free. As a wormholer, they are totally invaluable and can definitely offer a competitive advantage, but that competitive advantage wouldn't be there without someone in the group doing the work and mapping things out and having a good corp (guild) culture of keeping things clean. So even though it's a 3rd party tool, it becomes part of the game play.

      If Albion isn't going to offer a group based tool like Pathfinder or Tripwire similar to what you have done with the killboard and build board (which are 3rd party tools in EVE/MOBAs), I really implore you to reconsider this decision.
      I think these 2 posts sum up my feelings on the matter. You can't ban something that you can't detect, which favors those who don't follow the rules.

      I do see though that in the OP that this really doesn't give you a reltime advantage, like showing you a radar or anything like that, simply a routing tool. I don't think these tools fit the description of bannable 3rd party software. Where's the line?
    • These people are arguing over semantics, at the end of the day having a mapper destroys the concept of roads no matter how you twist it .
      The best course of action for SBI would be to Heavily encrypt the road location data so these people can't use sniffers to automate the process.
      For the killing blow for these cheaters just randomize the names everyday for these zones. Also don't show the exit portal names unless you travel through them but have them look different, so people know they are portals out of the mists.
      This makes it exponentially harder for people mapping in secret and they would have to spent a lot of time trying to map the roads everyday 8) . If it ever gets big enough to map a large portion with a lot of players its gonna be leaked .

      The post was edited 2 times, last by DarkProtege ().

    • TSkebee wrote:

      Sorry, but I find the premise of this discussion a bit silly.
      Sure, knowing portal connections, capacity and expiry is an advantage over someone who does not know it, but it is a question of whether the game is playable if you want to live in the roads.

      If you are not allowed to cooperate with guild mates about mapping how to get to and from your HO in an efficient manner, that would mean that everybody have to roam around randomly for hours to find the right way. It is also a no-brainer, that the longer you spend roaming full loot PvP areas, the higher the risk of meeting someone who will want to fight you; so if it is a banable offense to take an efficient route found and communicated by your friends then there will be very little trade or 'foot traffic' between HOs in the roads and the royal cities.

      If you are not allowed to map your way to and from your guild HO in the roads, there is no point setting up an HO. Then the roads will only be for excursions limited by the time left on the random portals you go through - because you have to make sure you can go back the way you came so you do not get stuck in no-man's land.

      As has been said by several others, we are not talking about having motion detectors, tracking of individual players, or having private CCTV systems installed on the roads. We are talking about whether it is practically possible to have and run a guild HO in the roads.
      You are not following.

      If you have a HO in roads, it's your home you live there. You can easily run out and find your exits. People are taking their vague response and using it as some crazy argument. Like somehow telling your guildmates how to get to and from your HO is the same as going to a website and going martlock -> Redtree and finding a clear road path there?

      or going Bridgewatch -> Road name and instantly getting a pathway there while doing nothing.

      come on dude
    • Grrd wrote:

      Everything in Mango is manually recorded. It is just a glorified spreadsheet with an efficient search tool. People are just envious because they're not smart enough to make something like it.

      You want access? Newby is recruiting!
      That would be true, but sadly it's not. Because the Database side has logic that uses inputed information to formulate new pathways that no one exactly explored. Instead it's combining data. Once this occurs the work of 10 people can creates 100's of separate pathways not actually explored or used.

      However can be searched upon and used by masses.