Axe users run out of energy in corrupted dungeons

    • Axe users run out of energy in corrupted dungeons

      Issue regarding axes being far too mana hungry in comparison to other weapons is far too evident in corrupted dungeons.

      One has no other choice than to use scholar cowl, for just lymhurst is simply not enough to do damage.

      The way it is, there simply is no option than to wear scholar cowl there, unless one wants to kill monsters Extremely slowly and saving their lymhurst cape for a pvp with someone.

      So there are two options currently for axe users.

      1) Wear scholar cowl for fast clears, but not being able to fight properly for lacking hunter hood / guardian helmet / soldier helmet etc, thus having a severe disadvantage over other builds. However, if there aren´t mobs around and enemy will stop hitting you after using scholar cowl - then you become a sitting duck and you die.

      2) Wear a pvp helmet and lymhurst cape, but be extremely slow when killing monsters, not being able to use E or W to not trigger lymhurst cape so that you have a chance in fight. But even if you fight and battle lasts even a little bit longer, you run out of mana eventually due to how mana hungry axes are.

      You just run out of mana if you play as an axe, and it´s even more evident here in corrupted dungeons. Because of that, in corrupted dungeons, axes are F tier. If the energy consumption was reduced by maybe 30%, they might be more viable with lymhurst cape, but the way it is - they just underperfom there due to energy issues.
    • Borbarad wrote:

      One has no other choice than to use scholar cowl, for just lymhurst is simply not enough to do damage.

      The way it is, there simply is no option than to wear scholar cowl there, unless one wants to kill monsters Extremely slowly and saving their lymhurst cape for a pvp with someone.
      I've posted on this months ago (when I still played... hopefully I will come back to the game with the Aug update, but I digress).

      The mana issue is definitely an issue, no disagrement there, but its kind of the same as in the solo dungeons (or even worse - in 2v2 HGs).

      Your other options (4 month ago, before they nerfed Cultist Robe) was to either:

      1) run Cultist Robe (and use that for mana regen, as well as HP regen and much higher DMG output)
      or
      2) Bring mana pots. Mana pots in solo kind of sucked and were not as needed, but definitely something that helped in 2v2 HG.

      And then option 3 - as you already pointed out is to run Scholar Cawl (which is what I ran pretty much exclusively on my main Axe user, for 90% of my PVP).

      Now - Cultist Robe got a pretty heavy nerf (have not played enough to see if its still viable, sounds like it will be trash tier), but Scholaw Cawl still seems like a decent staple item.

      If "enemy stops hitting you" when you pop it - that means you get to still apply DMG to the enemy while taking none. Also use it when you have a DOT on you (or run into something that deals small DOT DMG) and it will almost instantly restore all your mana.

      And yes - I agree - Lymhurt cape on axe is pretty much useless (unless you are running 5v5 PVE group conent, but thats a whole different story).

      PS. Almost forgot - Scholar Sandals (the ones with mana regen run, that too got nerfed some time ago) are another staple item on solo/small scale Axe PVP builds.
    • The issues with scholar cowl is that anyone experienced will make use of it and won´t hit you, and then you are a sitting duck with no mana. And if no mobs are around - rip.

      The problem with scholar sandals are that they are completely unsuitable for axes, for it is a channel. If you use infernal scythe or greataxe, you need to have some movement abilities popped on, otherwise everyone will simply run away and your cooldown is wasted. Not to mention axes are supposed to be about pressure, about keeping those bleeds and damage up, and you do no damage when you have scholar sandals on.

      Scholar sandals are nice for ZvZ with halberd, but other than that, they are extremely bad for axes.
    • SirusX715 wrote:

      One trick you can do is carry clam soup in addition to your normal food. Pop the clam soup, swap foods, enter gate, pop combat food when pvp inbound.
      Yeah but why should an axe user do that in the first place. It's not like the weapon is powerful enough to warrant all these extra hoop you need to jump through to get a semi-playable experience.

      Honestly this issue along with many other axe issues has already been brought up ,there has been countless threads made on the issues and they don't really get anything moving in terms of fixing stuff. Maybe they are working on something in the background but at this point I have no idea.
      Right now axes are only decent at clearing solo dungeons and there are more useful weapons that can be close to axe speed in clearing.

      Even though I have maxed spec in axes I stopped using them because I there are always weapons that are more useful and fun to play even on lower spec.
    • The best trick I can teach players and can't stress enough is don't wear a equal or higher wep tier than your armor. You would be rather surprised if you was to wear a 1200ip armor setup and a 1100 WEP it does play a big role in the energy management. Well I'll loose damage that way, wrong you loose damage when you have no energy and can't do anything. Lol yes energy batteries suit some builds Better and they shine but any WEP has energy issues if you spam skills and don't look deeper into the mechanics of the game.
    • SirusX715 wrote:

      One trick you can do is carry clam soup in addition to your normal food. Pop the clam soup, swap foods, enter gate, pop combat food when pvp inbound.
      I tested clam soup and it was "okayish". Kind of works for shorter runs or if paired with scholar sandals (sandals are a must with this combo). Can still run out of mana. Kind of works for faster, less spammy clears (when you can just kill stuff with Q)

      agonyclutch wrote:

      The best trick I can teach players and can't stress enough is don't wear a equal or higher wep tier than your armor. You would be rather surprised if you was to wear a 1200ip armor setup and a 1100 WEP it does play a big role in the energy management. Well I'll loose damage that way, wrong you loose damage when you have no energy and can't do anything. Lol yes energy batteries suit some builds Better and they shine but any WEP has energy issues if you spam skills and don't look deeper into the mechanics of the game.
      yes this is good advice. This approach works for all weapons equally though. Usually I keep my helm and cape 1 tier above my weapon (ip wise too) and it does wonders for mana.
    • I also stopped using axes because I wanted to use other equipment than scholar cowl and sandals, and at least one of them is a mandatory for energy management. I would also say that clam soups are okay at most, but also quite expensive. In my opinion axes are not that good in general that those should have so heavy energy need. I personally use only Infernal Scythe now and then, because I like its burst damage potential. I would say that only lowering the energy costs could unlock more build options around axes.
    • Ravenar wrote:

      Royal Cowl works nicely with axes in my experience. It has so short cooldown that you can use it all the time and the key is that you are smashing away for free energy, no channelling no dependency of getting hit. just spam away for free like a duracell bunny :D

      edit: druid cowl if you are in a group
      And then you get purged and rip. Either way, you still Lose out on other head pieces and that makes you so much more weaker - not to mention royal cowl is expensive, but that´s not really my issue.

      There is no reason for axes to have such riddiculously high energy consumption
    • Alright so I looked at the numbers because I got curious, I checked the differences between the mana costs and I got surprised. Axes mana costs I'd say were very similar to axes. So I started wondering why does it feel like swords have so much mana despite having quite similar mana costs.
      After thinking it through I came to the conclusion that swords don't need to use skills on cooldown to reach the same dps as axe. The bulk of swords damage comes from autoattacks which are free. Axes don't have powerful attacks so they rely on their skills.
      In comparison, axe bleed and attacks are not very strong to match the damage output of sword attacks with heroic charges. The skills also don't do much apart from dealing damage which means there is no reason to hold on to them which increases your total mana consumption.
      Axe is essentially a physical spell caster in melee range and that is why it has problems with mana.
      Just take a look at frost for example, it uses tons of mana and it essentially only has damage.
      The thing with frost is that it has range and has tools to keep itself safe which allows them to sacrifice some pieces like the helmet piece just for the sake of mana.
      Axes don't come close to the damage, they don't have tools to keep them-self safe in melee range especially when focused and have mana problems.
    • @OotOot Swords are good weapons to compare also in my opinion. I have used Clarent Blade and Dual Swords and with either I do not have any energy issues. Mostly this comes from building Heroic stacks and using Iron will which cost much less than Axes' raging blades in slot W for example. Iron will also makes you more tankier why it is easy to run with cloth robe to get extra damage. I personally like the Dual Swords E Spinning Blades because it hits so hard, and it has the same 20s CD than Great Axes E Whirlwind. Whirlwind can of course do a good amount of damage, but because it is 5s channel, especially players can avoid most of the damage if they play well.

      However, corrupted dungeons are launching soon so lets see how axes will perform in those 1v1 PvP situations in that specific environment. It might be that e.g. Battleaxe will become more viable when you fight just one player at once, will see. We all know the PvE potential and RSD clearing speed of axes and axes performs very well there, however, there is very little variations with the builds because the hunger of the energy and mandatory gear pieces.
    • OotOot wrote:

      I already tested corrupted dungeons and I know for a fact that axes won't be there. Simply because ranged weapons will be king and you need mobility to even attempt to compete. Axe only has adrenaline rush and that is not enough. Bearpaws are too unreliable and have too high of a cooldown.
      I have not tested yet, but I can imagine that Axes are not in good position. I have personally planned to run corrupted dungeons with 1h spear or perhaps with swords. I would like to test 1-h cursed as well but lack of mobility might be a problem there, will see.
    • OotOot wrote:

      I personally tested multiple different builds and came up with this one albiononline.com/en/characterbuilder/solo-builds/view/65185
      I have so far not lost with it in corrupted dungeons and I also only lost a few times to certain builds in 1v1 town duels.
      I will start with spear and torch, but I have planned to use the same gear pieces as you. ;) That build has worked well in SRD and I believe it could work in corrupted dungeons as well.
    • Borbarad wrote:

      Issue regarding axes being far too mana hungry in comparison to other weapons is far too evident in corrupted dungeons.

      One has no other choice than to use scholar cowl, for just lymhurst is simply not enough to do damage.

      The way it is, there simply is no option than to wear scholar cowl there, unless one wants to kill monsters Extremely slowly and saving their lymhurst cape for a pvp with someone.

      So there are two options currently for axe users.

      1) Wear scholar cowl for fast clears, but not being able to fight properly for lacking hunter hood / guardian helmet / soldier helmet etc, thus having a severe disadvantage over other builds. However, if there aren´t mobs around and enemy will stop hitting you after using scholar cowl - then you become a sitting duck and you die.

      2) Wear a pvp helmet and lymhurst cape, but be extremely slow when killing monsters, not being able to use E or W to not trigger lymhurst cape so that you have a chance in fight. But even if you fight and battle lasts even a little bit longer, you run out of mana eventually due to how mana hungry axes are.

      You just run out of mana if you play as an axe, and it´s even more evident here in corrupted dungeons. Because of that, in corrupted dungeons, axes are F tier. If the energy consumption was reduced by maybe 30%, they might be more viable with lymhurst cape, but the way it is - they just underperfom there due to energy issues.
      I disagree, there's a third option very good for a corrupted dungeon, use Scholar Sandals between pulls or after finish a miniboss going to other pull. U can run a lot of distance being inmune to cc so if u need move to escape a little bit waiting for CDs it's a good boots skill. Im using it with greataxe and one handed axe and you can wear a pvp helmet like guardian or hunter to reflect without losing a lot of mobility cause u have W for speed too.
    • Lynnkk wrote:

      I disagree, there's a third option very good for a corrupted dungeon, use Scholar Sandals between pulls or after finish a miniboss going to other pull. U can run a lot of distance being inmune to cc so if u need move to escape a little bit waiting for CDs it's a good boots skill. Im using it with greataxe and one handed axe and you can wear a pvp helmet like guardian or hunter to reflect without losing a lot of mobility cause u have W for speed too.
      Scholar sandals are the absolute Worst for axes for they have no Synergy with it. You need to have mobility on otherwise people are gonna dodge your E.

      Either way, axes have no place at all in corrupted dungeons. They are only good for clearing mobs, but their fighting ability is very lacking.

      Here in these dungeons it shows how bad axes are in comparison to weapons like daggers, swords, and the king : light crossbow
    • Borbarad wrote:

      Lynnkk wrote:

      I disagree, there's a third option very good for a corrupted dungeon, use Scholar Sandals between pulls or after finish a miniboss going to other pull. U can run a lot of distance being inmune to cc so if u need move to escape a little bit waiting for CDs it's a good boots skill. Im using it with greataxe and one handed axe and you can wear a pvp helmet like guardian or hunter to reflect without losing a lot of mobility cause u have W for speed too.
      Scholar sandals are the absolute Worst for axes for they have no Synergy with it. You need to have mobility on otherwise people are gonna dodge your E.
      Either way, axes have no place at all in corrupted dungeons. They are only good for clearing mobs, but their fighting ability is very lacking.

      Here in these dungeons it shows how bad axes are in comparison to weapons like daggers, swords, and the king : light crossbow
      Greataxe E give you speed, your w give you speed, u dont need more than that, even if u need more, swap boot skill to common skill when invade or get invaded, but i dont think u need it, the problem will be any cc or skill to interrupt your E for that, im using one handed axe instead of greataxe, with a T6 one handed axe u can clear fast with last W skill, and aoe Q, if invaded, then change my W to the second one.