Learning Points - FACTS!

  • Learning Points - FACTS!

    I've seen players complaining about the Learning Points (LP), how bad the system is etc so I made a quick research and calculated the LP requirements. I haven't run out of LP yet and after the research I found the system to be the most affective if you sepcialise into one branch as @Bercilak posted before. I don't like limits in games, especially in sandbox games, but we need those limits to slow down those hardcore nolifers who wanna be self-efficient and rush to the top tiers. Imo we should not be able to reach high tiers within a month, the progression should last longer so we can play Albion for years.

    These are some LP facts and values:
    • everybody starts with 300 LP
    • LP regenerates: 1LP per 24 minutes = 60 LP per day
    • farming requires: 108 LP TOTAL to unlock all
    • cooking requires: 72 LP TOTAL to unlock all
    • weapon requirements: T4 - 12 LP, T5 - 24 LP, T6 - 48 LP, T7 - 96 LP, T8 - 192 LP TOTAL = 372 LP
    • armor requirements: for each piece (head, chest, boots) is the same as weapons so:
    • to unlock full T4 u need 36 LP, T5 - 72 LP, T6 - 144 LP, T7 - 288 LP, T8 - 576 LP TOTAL = 1116 LP
    • tools requirements: T3 - 12 LP, T4 - 24 LP, T5 - 48 LP, T6 - 96 LP, T7 - 192 LP, T8 - 192 LP TOTAL = 564 LP so:
    • to unlock all tools (there are 5 of them) T3 you need 60 LP, T4 - 120 LP, T5 - 240 LP, T6 - 480 LP, T7 - 960 LP, T8 - 960 LP TOTAL = 2820 LP
    • tools crafting: T4 - 12 LP, T5 - 24 LP, T6 - 48 LP, T7 - 96 LP, T8 - 192 LP TOTAL = 372 LP
    • weapon & armor crafting for each piece: T4 - 12 LP, T5 - 24 LP, T6 - 48 LP, T7 - 96 LP, T8 - 192 LP TOTAL = 372 LP
    • refining requirements: T4 - 12 LP, T5 - 24 LP, T6 - 48 LP, T7 - 96 LP, T8 - 192 LP TOTAL = 372 LP
    • to unlock all refining (5 of them) T4 u need 60 LP, T5 - 120 LP, T6 - 240 LP, T7 - 480 LP, T8 - 960 LP TOTAL = 1860 LP
    • I exluded weapon and armor levels, each level require more LP

    So let's see what you may do on day 1:
    • use all T3 and T4 tools (180 LP)
    • refine T4 resources (60 LP)
    • use T4 weapon (12 LP)
    • use full T4 set (36 LP)
    • craft T4 weapon (12 LP)
    • TOTAL = 300 LP
    After a week you will regenerate 420 LP so you may for example:
    • unlock all T5 tools (240 LP)
    • refine all T5 resources (120 LP)
    • use T5 weapon (24 LP)
    • unlock one T5 armor piece (24 LP)
    • TOTAL 408 LP

    But if you specialise in something you may progress faster:
    After a week (720 LP total):
    • use T6 weapon (84 LP)
    • use full T6 set (252 LP)
    • use 1 tools T6 ( 180 LP)
    • refine 1 resources T6 (84 LP)
    • craft 1 tool T6 (84 LP)
    • 36 LP left you may use in farming/cooking
    You can try out your builds and calculate how many LP you need and how much time you need to accumulate LP for it. I think the system is quite fair but need more time to evaluate.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Dagother ().

  • the problem is, if you have everything on t4, and you regenerated the points to unlock 1 item to t5.

    every fame you gain is only worth 1/4 of the amount it would be worth if you have all t5 unlocked and equiped.

    on paper this may sound right, but in reality it is just not fun.
    Proud owner of the T8 Offhand book Rosalia's Diary. Feel free to pm me once you have your own item named in Albion.
  • I think LP is not a good system, the real feature would be incrementing the overall fame needed for each tier. With this, you will spend the same time to get T8, but you wont lose fame in the meanwhile, because every fame that you earn is worth it.

    With the LP system, you are losing fame because you didnt unlock a skill yet because of LPs.
  • Some more facts :)

    LP Costs per Mastery-Level and Node-Level:


    Level 1Level 2
    Level 3
    Level 4
    Level 5
    Level 6
    Mastery 10192
    384
    768
    1536
    3072
    6144
    Mastery 9
    96
    192
    384
    768
    1536
    3072
    Mastery 8
    96
    192
    384
    768
    1536
    3072
    Mastery 7
    48
    96
    192
    384
    768
    1536
    Mastery 6
    48
    96
    192
    384
    768
    1536
    Mastery 5
    24
    48
    96
    192
    384
    768
    Mastery 4
    24
    48
    96
    192
    384
    768
    Mastery 3
    12
    24
    48
    96
    192
    384
    Mastery 2
    12
    24
    48
    96
    192
    384
    Mastery 1
    12
    24
    48
    96
    192
    384
    SUM LP:564
    1128
    2256
    4512
    9024
    18048

    LP Cost per Node line (All Node levels to Mastery 10):

    Alchemist: 36 LP
    Farmer: 36 LP
    Breder: 36 LP
    Cook: 72 LP

    Gathering (5 lines):
    564 LP per line (L1 Node)
    Total: 2820 LP

    Toolsmith (7 lines):
    564 LP per line (L1 Node)
    Total: 3948 LP

    Refining:
    Stone Cutter: 564 LP (L1 Node)
    The Other 4:
    35532 per line (L1+L2+L3+L4+L5+L6 Node)

    Crafting (27 lines):
    35532 per line (L1+L2+L3+L4+L5+L6 Node)

    Combat: (27 lines):
    35532 per line (L1+L2+L3+L4+L5+L6 Node)

    Combined LP costs: 2061984


    Assuming 60 LP per day (OUTDATED, see Learning Points - FACTS! for new calc)

    Learning a L1 Node from zero to Mastery 10:
    9,4 days

    Learning a L2 Node from zero to Mastery 10:
    18,8 days

    Learning a L3 Node from zero to Mastery 10
    37,6 days

    Learning a L4 Node from zero to Mastery 10
    75,2 days

    Learning a L5 Node from zero to Mastery 10
    150,4 days

    Learning a L6 Node from zero to Mastery 10
    300, 8 days

    Learning a complete line with all Mastery levels:
    592,2 days

    Learning a complete line Mastery level 1:
    12,6 days

    Complete gathering, farming and toolsmith:
    115, 8 days

    Funfact: Mastering every available node at current state:
    94 years :D

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Nydiadus ().

  • What we're not seeing, and really need to know, is how much effort it takes to earn those levels. Not a very easy thing to graph though. The stated intention of the LP system is to restrict "force fed guild characters" to my understanding. The system shouldn't restrict a hardcore doing most of his/her own grinding.

    Furthermore are we talking maxing every mastery as well? There's a big difference between limiting how fast someone can tier up their weaponry and limiting them collecting every +3% damage bonus they can by ultra grinding weapon nodes.
  • Mastery lvls allow to use next Tier aswell...

    And btw, I agree that a hardcore player should achieve something with his play. BUT, this should be done with an increase of fame needed. So, if you need, for example, 100kk of fame to get T8 max lvl, a hardcore player won't get it in 5 days, but maybe in 100 days, while a normal player will get it in 300-400 days.
  • Neshert wrote:

    Mastery lvls allow to use next Tier aswell...

    And btw, I agree that a hardcore player should achieve something with his play. BUT, this should be done with an increase of fame needed. So, if you need, for example, 100kk of fame to get T8 max lvl, a hardcore player won't get it in 5 days, but maybe in 100 days, while a normal player will get it in 300-400 days.


    Increased fame is not a good solution, hardcore nolifers and zergs would still gain fame more than medium-sized guilds. For those smaller guilds it would be too grindy... While learning points give more 'fair' progression, hardcore nolifers and zergs will still have advantage over mid-sized guilds because if you have time and enough players online you can do everything faster and more efficiently.

    The problem as Rosalia mentioned, are multiaccounts/alts... It would be better to have an alt for refining, other for crafting or even gathering so your main character could be specialised only in fighting, having advantage over players who specialise in a few things or wanna be jack of all trades and progress slowly.
    @Bercilak how would you fight with multiaccounts/multibox/alts? With such LP system and f2p business model, lots of players gonna create alt characters just to save crafting durability and learning points. In EvE online you may have alt characters or a few accounts you can play simultaneously, or even you may buy simultaneous skills training for your alts so all your characters can progress in different branches at the same time. Are you planning to add some durability and learning points bonus regeneration via premium account and/or item shop?
  • Idea is good and kind of works in the alpha but the multiaccounting will make it useless. They would have to monitor it hard if they would like it to work as intended in launch.
    Fast idea for maintaining the tier balance would be to have high fame count in start for an unlock and as more players unlock it the cost would go down. Early adopters get their little advantage and others could still catch up.


    The post was edited 2 times, last by mulkmulkmulk ().

  • The problem is that there will be a huge gap between top tier guilds and the rest without LP or a similar system.
    How can SI balance character progress to a reasonable level, without refining and crafting beeing only done by alt accounts?

    This game is also about making choices, and every choice should have an impact.
    If manpower is the only limiting factor, either our choises are meaningless (progression too fast), or players get rewarded for pure grinding.
  • mulkmulkmulk wrote:

    Idea is good and kind of works in the alpha but the multiaccounting will make it useless. They would have to monitor it hard if they would like it to work as intended in launch.
    Fast idea for maintaining the tier balance would be to have high fame count in start for an unlock and as more players unlock it the cost would go down. Early adopters get their little advantage and others could still catch up.



    They honestly need to do away with it and just have fame the progression it works and it shows the time you put in just have higher fame caps pretttttttttttttttttttty simple man....
    Dirty or clean i do all in between
  • LP will become nearly useless on release due to free accounts. LP will become a major limiter to people with one account but I believe the real reason LP exists is to control the pace of player development via the cash shop.

    A lot of FTP games use limiters like this then sell consumables which add more crafting points or LP.

    Archeage does this and you use a type of LP to do everything from opening loot bags, identifying items so you can use them, to gathering and crafting gear. I quit with in a few hours of downloading archeage because of this.

    The only real people that will be hurt by this are people who will only use one account and not spend money in the cash shop.

    The only thing that worries me about AO is the possible state of the cash shop.
  • With such a system Albion Online will encourage players to create alts, but not developing a single character. That won't work such well, as expected. I remember old dev posts, in which they told that multispecialized character will be very difficult to develop. I think the old system proved it enough without adding these Learning Points. Just make learning high tiers equally long enough - so, in my humble opinion, this will be the best solution for both the problems: preventing to become a master of all trades and preventing to create alts.