Something Has Got To Give.

    • Something Has Got To Give.

      Guys, something has to give. Look at this:

      Most of these achievements are really basic and can be accomplished in 5-10 hours of play, yet the vast majority of them have only been gotten by 5-10% of the total players. This tells me that most new players drop the game after 10-20 hours of play because most of these achievements should be obtainable within that time. Which begs the question why are new players passing off the game so quickly? Here are my thoughts:

      Most of the content in this game is catered to guilds or large groups and there is nothing wrong with that, but what about the content for the new player? Most new players don't come to the game with lots of friends or a whole guild in tow. Also most guilds don't want to recruit some newbie that is T3 everything and that doesn't know the basic mechanics. So what options does the new player have? Well group dungeons are out of the question because most people on LFG wont even look at you unless you have an IP of at least 900 (even for BZ dungeons). Solo expeditions are very limited in the fame and rewards they give and not viable for leveling, and the arena is a joke (as I pointed out in a previous thread). You can try PvP, but seeing how most PvPers fight in groups you are gonna have a bad time being a solo PvPer. So what options does the solo newbie have left in this game. Most guilds wont give you the time of day until you are at least T6 in something, so how are newbies expected to get there by themselves?

      The only answer left is solo dungeons. So newbies are expected to do solo dungeons until T6? Does that sound fun to you? Don't get me wrong they are fun the first ten or so times you run them, but they get boring and tedious very quickly. I can see why so many new players drop off after hitting this brick wall. Unless you have friends in a guild willing to power level you passed this hurdle you are stuck there. We need more options for early game solo leveling. We need more solo expeditions that give better fame, better arenas, more BZ-YZ static solo dungeons. BZ hellgates are good but hellgates are to complex for most newbies to tackle. We need MOAR early game solo content if you want to stop hemorrhaging new players. Forcing people into group content for end game is perfectly fine, but expecting the same of new players in ludicrous seeing how most groups/guilds will have nothing to do with new players.

      INB4 Someone comments: "There are plenty of guilds recruiting noobs lol (insert anecdotal example here)"
      Yes those guilds are called noob farms and they have massive taxes, will do nothing to help you, and are usually the ones spamming invites in the newbie zones.



      PS: Mods don't move me to rants again just because you don't like what I have to say.
    • Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      This is the weirdest correlation between some bullshit out of game achievements and game design i have seen in a while.

      Absolutely no reason to be in every city, and i have at least 8 chars who never did that achievement and its not really because i dont like the game.
      Its not just that one achievement. Most of the ones are very easy to get yet <10% have them. Being able to think critically and draw conclusions based on data is a skill alot of people are lacking nowadays. Dont feel bad about it.
    • blappo wrote:

      the main issue, is that 90% of game population is alts and Bots neither care about achievements

      well that and if you arent in a top 200 + guild you probably are scared to even leave the yellow zones and dont travel between cities and do not have more than 5 mil silver.
      This might be true. But to my knowledge Sandbox hasn't given us any metrics about their playerbase/playercount. So all we can do is speculate on the data we do have.
    • To clarify I have been on Steam awhile and have been through alot of games. Whenever you see a game with a bunch of easy achievements that less than 10% of players have its usually a half baked indie game that nobody plays or cares about. But Albion has a significant playerbase, just walk into any city and you can see that. I'm trying to figure out whats causing this anomaly. Is it bots, alt spam, new player drop off? None of which are good things BTW. I believe it to be the latter just from my own experiences starting this game months ago but we wont know for sure until we get more concrete data.
    • My account isn't icluded to steam beacouse i play on orginal client not on steam but...
      I don't remember excacly but i thing it paseed something about a year of constant playing into game till i have visted all of cities...
      In that time I was just playing near Martlock and after couple of weeks i transfered to Caerleon (to get acces into BZ and all RZ surounding Caerleon).
      So for example for me, after hardcore playing into game whole year, even if steam client was accesable from begining of AO I will not have this achivment... So i was quiting a game after 10 or 20 hours of playing?
      Ofcourse not... I'm playing in AO from premiere till now (with some breake in betwen).

      Now I have a island, guild island and a armory in every city (at lest one per city) so i got this acivment (but still i don;t use steam clinet so I'm not includet in that statistic). But a lot of ppl playing stationary in one town, from time to time visiting one or two next to main one...

      Just visit each town... In everyone You will se a lot ppl... Just most of hardcore pc gamers don;t give a s*** on achivments...
    • RaDaMaNNs wrote:

      To clarify I have been on Steam awhile and have been through alot of games. Whenever you see a game with a bunch of easy achievements that less than 10% of players have its usually a half baked indie game that nobody plays or cares about. But Albion has a significant playerbase, just walk into any city and you can see that. I'm trying to figure out whats causing this anomaly. Is it bots, alt spam, new player drop off? None of which are good things BTW. I believe it to be the latter just from my own experiences starting this game months ago but we wont know for sure until we get more concrete data.
      I think the biggest thing you are missing is that this is a F2P MMO. It's more like a free phone game than something you spent your money in order to then play. So any achievement that requires more than a handful of hours is going to be misrepresented by the low percentage of player retention in these things. A huge portion of those accounts probably downloaded the game, played for an hour, or less, and decided it just wasn't their thing and moved on to a different game.

      So for example I was looking at Borderlands 3 Achievements, and complete the tutorial achievement was at about 95%. Which makes perfect sense. You pay money for a game, you are going to make it through the tutorial. In AO you have no investment at all and so it wouldn't be strange to see a completed tutorial achievement at 50% or even much lower.

      Everything else you said is just the same old "I don't like how this game works. Change it so it works how I would like it." Which, you are entitled to. But, there are infinite games out there and is it going to be easier for you to get SBI to redesign their game to accommodate you, or to just find a game that does so on your own? There are a lot of people playing this game and they like something about it already.

      This is a single player game, like real life is, where sure you can play by yourself and never have anything to do with anyone else, but that mostly ends up with you living in a van down by the river. The rewarding content is interacting with other players. Mostly in the form of stabbing and looting, but also in the form of grouping together to share experience so that less people stab and loot you. Forsaking everyone and everything is just a hard life.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
      "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Piddle wrote:

      I think the biggest thing you are missing is that this is a F2P MMO. It's more like a free phone game than something you spent your money in order to then play. So any achievement that requires more than a handful of hours is going to be misrepresented by the low percentage of player retention in these things. A huge portion of those accounts probably downloaded the game, played for an hour, or less, and decided it just wasn't their thing and moved on to a different game.So for example I was looking at Borderlands 3 Achievements, and complete the tutorial achievement was at about 95%. Which makes perfect sense. You pay money for a game, you are going to make it through the tutorial. In AO you have no investment at all and so it wouldn't be strange to see a completed tutorial achievement at 50% or even much lower.

      Everything else you said is just the same old "I don't like how this game works. Change it so it works how I would like it." Which, you are entitled to. But, there are infinite games out there and is it going to be easier for you to get SBI to redesign their game to accommodate you, or to just find a game that does so on your own? There are a lot of people playing this game and they like something about it already.

      This is a single player game, like real life is, where sure you can play by yourself and never have anything to do with anyone else, but that mostly ends up with you living in a van down by the river. The rewarding content is interacting with other players. Mostly in the form of stabbing and looting, but also in the form of grouping together to share experience so that less people stab and loot you. Forsaking everyone and everything is just a hard life.
      You made some good points here, there are a few Id like to rebut.
      Yes this is a F2P MMO and you are right that mobile crossovers usually follow this trend of low achievements. But most Legit PC MMOs do not. You will see games like TF2, CSGO, ESO, Black Desert, Final Fantasy, etc usually have a 30-50% clear rate of their most basic achievements. Unless the majority of players on Albion are mobile users, I still think these low achievement numbers are indications of something more insidious. Once again since (to my knowledge) Sandbox hasn't released any player count numbers all we can do is speculate on this.

      You are right, I didnt like how the game works and I do want to change it. My first few weeks playing were miserable at best, look through my posts and you will see that. Others may get power leveled by their friends in discord and bypass all that trifling mess altogether. But Im willing to bet most new solo players will have an experience similar to what I had. The difference is they are not nearly as patient as I am with putting up with bullcrap.

      The single player experience doesn't have to be like that. I doesnt have to be "a van down by the river" simulator. Just because you force people into groups at endgame doesnt mean you have to do the same to new players right out the gate. All Im asking is to give new players options, instead of forcing them to beg like paupers that some guild adopt them.
    • You said:

      "Most of these achievements are really basic and can be accomplished in 5-10 hours of play, yet the vast majority of them have only been gotten by 5-10% of the total players. This tells me that most new players drop the game after 10-20 hours of play because most of these achievements should be obtainable within that time."

      I've played Albion for more than 20 hours.

      I have never done that achievement.

      I have also not downloaded Albion through Steam, so even if I did do that mission I wouldn't get a steam achievement for it.

      How can you use the steam achievement statistic to determine how many players stop playing after a given amount of time? Is that accurate?
      » ᴘ ᴇ ɴ ɢ ᴜ ɪ ɴ • s ɴ ɪ ᴘ ᴇ ʀ «

      Enough of my hateful comments, I can do better than that. Apologies to anyone I've been abusive towards on this forum in the past. 26 September 2020
    • NdwZ wrote:

      My account isn't icluded to steam beacouse i play on orginal client not on steam but...
      I don't remember excacly but i thing it paseed something about a year of constant playing into game till i have visted all of cities...
      In that time I was just playing near Martlock and after couple of weeks i transfered to Caerleon (to get acces into BZ and all RZ surounding Caerleon).
      So for example for me, after hardcore playing into game whole year, even if steam client was accesable from begining of AO I will not have this achivment... So i was quiting a game after 10 or 20 hours of playing?
      Ofcourse not... I'm playing in AO from premiere till now (with some breake in betwen).

      Now I have a island, guild island and a armory in every city (at lest one per city) so i got this acivment (but still i don;t use steam clinet so I'm not includet in that statistic). But a lot of ppl playing stationary in one town, from time to time visiting one or two next to main one...

      Just visit each town... In everyone You will se a lot ppl... Just most of hardcore pc gamers don;t give a s*** on achivments...

      Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      This is the weirdest correlation between some bullshit out of game achievements and game design i have seen in a while.

      Absolutely no reason to be in every city, and i have at least 8 chars who never did that achievement and its not really because i dont like the game.

      PenguinSniper wrote:

      You said:

      "Most of these achievements are really basic and can be accomplished in 5-10 hours of play, yet the vast majority of them have only been gotten by 5-10% of the total players. This tells me that most new players drop the game after 10-20 hours of play because most of these achievements should be obtainable within that time."

      I've played Albion for more than 20 hours.

      I have never done that achievement.

      I have also not downloaded Albion through Steam, so even if I did do that mission I wouldn't get a steam achievement for it.

      How can you use the steam achievement statistic to determine how many players stop playing after a given amount of time? Is that accurate?
      Why do you people keep ignoring the other achievements like safe passage, its dark in here, beginner crafter, harmless person, etc and keep using tourist to try to build a straw man argument?
      Maybe I should have posted the achievement list instead of just the library page. Clearly you people cant read very well so here is a proper visual aid:

      All of them have a gold outline meaning less than 10% have completed them.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by RaDaMaNNs ().

    • You really wanna make an opition based of achivments? Achivment who does nothing, almost everyone don't give a shit about it? And mojaority of population don;t play on steam...
      Maybe better look at cities... They are overpopulated (with ppl w/o silly achivment :P ), look at starting zones... quite crowded... look at royal continent.. quite alive... look at BZ... quite dead, when my guild is roaming on them :P "i see dead pepole" but i see a peapople (ppl who i killed :P ), look at chat, look at problems who thise game had... (qluester qoue, to big alliances, lack of resoursces - beacouse it's already gathered :P ) and many others...

      Do You see a "dead game"? Are You insane?
      You see only worthles achivment... That all You care?
      You saying that game who is overpopulated are dead xD Ohh... Silly You :P
    • RaDaMaNNs wrote:

      Seriously, does everyone here legitimately think this game is going to completely fall apart if we give new players a few more leveling options?!
      What is wrong with you people? Where did your hatred of newbies come from? Who hurt you?
      It's not that people hate newbies or don't think more variety in the low level PVE grind would be a good thing - it's that you framed your argument around some asinine reasoning around steam achievements and don't see how that's dumb.

      This isn't only a steam game & it out was out for a while before it even was available through steam - the vast majority of the veteran playerbase don't play through steam & so don't factor into the percentages you're using. It's also a f2p download that people will download idly when they're bored with no intention of getting invested into it, and it's a pretty niche genre since the isometric gameplay & threat of losing all your gear is a big turn off for a lot of people. Despite that, I had a look and you need to go down to achievments like 'Enter the blackzone' or 'Earn 1,000,000 silver' to get below 10% attainment rate - even reach T4 crafting, T4 gathering, or kill mobs for 100k fame are all above 10%

      By all means make suggestions for things you'd like to see added from a PVE perspective (given that a new type of solo dungeon is coming in the next expansion also), but framing the negative feedback you're getting as 'You guys hate new players' is disingenous when it's just a response to you making a flawed argument.
    • RaDaMaNNs wrote:

      PS: Mods don't move me to rants again just because you don't like what I have to say.
      I moved it there simply based on the value of your post. There are plenty of ways on how to provide an objective suggestion for the game's improvement.

      RaDaMaNNs wrote:

      This might be true. But to my knowledge Sandbox hasn't given us any metrics about their playerbase/playercount. So all we can do is speculate on the data we do have.
      There are various post about the player base and player count:

      Happy Third Anniversary, Albion Online!

      Population Update: May 2020

      PrintsKaspian wrote:

      Population Update: May 2020 May 6th 2020+9


      The Queen Update, released January 20, 2020, was by far the most successful Albion Online content update since launch, confirmed by consistent population growth since January and a record-high of over 500,000 monthly users for the month of April. Read more about what this means for the game, and the steps we're taking to ensure the best possible player experience: albiononline.com/en/news/population-update-may-2020
    • Bukem wrote:

      It's not that people hate newbies or don't think more variety in the low level PVE grind would be a good thing - it's that you framed your argument around some asinine reasoning around steam achievements and don't see how that's dumb.
      This isn't only a steam game & it out was out for a while before it even was available through steam - the vast majority of the veteran playerbase don't play through steam & so don't factor into the percentages you're using. It's also a f2p download that people will download idly when they're bored with no intention of getting invested into it, and it's a pretty niche genre since the isometric gameplay & threat of losing all your gear is a big turn off for a lot of people. Despite that, I had a look and you need to go down to achievments like 'Enter the blackzone' or 'Earn 1,000,000 silver' to get below 10% attainment rate - even reach T4 crafting, T4 gathering, or kill mobs for 100k fame are all above 10%

      By all means make suggestions for things you'd like to see added from a PVE perspective (given that a new type of solo dungeon is coming in the next expansion also), but framing the negative feedback you're getting as 'You guys hate new players' is disingenous when it's just a response to you making a flawed argument.
      "Its not that..."
      Its not asinine when your game is showing similar statistical characteristics to a pump and dump mobile game. Whether this game has botters or new player falloff neither of those are good. Im just trying to diagnose the problem with limited information.

      "This isn't only..."
      Another person has already made the cross platform argument and he was more cogent about it. I also rebutted it.

      "By all means..."
      Calling me disingenuous is funny seeing how I just pointed out 3 different people building a straw man argument against me just in my previous post. BTW Im sure that new dungeon is gonna be placed solely in RZ and BZ cause new players can go pound the sand.
    • Evas_Flarelight wrote:

      Population Update: May 2020

      PrintsKaspian wrote:

      Population Update: May 2020 May 6th 2020+9


      The Queen Update, released January 20, 2020, was by far the most successful Albion Online content update since launch, confirmed by consistent population growth since January and a record-high of over 500,000 monthly users for the month of April. Read more about what this means for the game, and the steps we're taking to ensure the best possible player experience: albiononline.com/en/news/population-update-may-2020

      Oh wow, this is good information.
      Is there any way to determine the mobile/steam/nonsteam player numbers separately? If the majority of players are mobile then that fits with the achievement stats being the same as most mobile crossovers. Steam charts says only 10k max so if these numbers are correct most people do indeed play without steam. Which means the steam numbers are just a 1/10th of the whole player base. Does this graph include those who play using steam? Also, does this include player alts or is this just counting game accounts?