Must have a mill !!

    • Must have a mill !!

      Starting in I built up my island with all the crafting shops to T5 and thought that was great. I now realize after reading a few posts on the forum that the 15% materials return in city shops far outweighs the cost so am now tearing most of them down, just keeping butcher and chef for convenience. However....

      I'm going to have to build a mill. There is no available mill at all in my city and none over T3 on the whole continent. My farming is just now getting to sheep level, and there's no way I can make sheep or cow butter at the present. I guess I could sell the milk and buy the butter, but it sticks in my craw to have to do that.

      On another note, I sure wish there was a way to turn some of the building lots into fields or pastures. Guess I could build houses but there's no way I could fill up journals for more laborers than I now have and buying full journals is prohibitively expensive
      Learn something new every day.
    • If so that is great but as it now stands, I would still have to go to another city to find one. Ain't gonna do that.

      Even when one was here, they were charging from 150-200% for use. Sorta overcomes the resource return amount.
      Learn something new every day.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Geofors ().

    • You have no idea if it overrides the resource recovery amount because you haven't compared the silver tax to the 24% return rate. You cannot compare 300% -> 24% at face value and say 300% is worse, because they are all portions of different things. 300% tax on a small silver fee is typically better than 24% of materials lost.
    • Not always so. Just did a test with T4 materials:.

      At 37% fee 15.2% return at smelter, I made about 50% extra profit.
      At 54% fee 15.2% return at alchemist. Fee was 34% higher than increased product value.

      It is obvious that gain or loss is dependent upon both the fee charged, and the current market value of the product. Steel bars were in high demand, and potions much less so. This becomes more aggravated as fee rates increase.

      I read in older posts about fees of 5-10%. At present in Martlock, the lowest user fee charged to non associates is 48%, Many are over 100%, A few over 200%, and one was set at 300%. A bit of a change it appears.

      Looks like I might have to keep my craft stations after all.
      Learn something new every day.
    • An even more egregious example:

      Mill has reopened in Martlock. Fee is set at 150% or 320 silver for every butter produced. Butter is selling in auction for 10 silver so you lose 310 silver on each conversion. The 15.2% materials return allow you to lose money on it also

      Easy way to go bankrupt quick!

      Another Example :

      Toolmaker charges 53% (303 silver each) with 15.2% materials return for T4 stone hammers. If I make 1oo and keep making with the returned materials I end up with 117-118 Hammers or 18 extra. These sell for 879 each at auction
      Fee for 118 hammers 35754
      Value of 18 extras 15822

      A loss of nearly 20000 silver.
      Learn something new every day.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Geofors: Add more data ().

    • Not everything can be profitable crafting. A mill as well as cook, butcher, alchemist and the saddler all have a higher maintenance cost compared to other crafting stations/refiners. Regular refiners, the break even point is between 7-15% depending on the exact building and exact food and stone cost with the current market.

      Please go make the maths of the durability loss over time based on average daily usage+ the average daily food consumption of the building on top of the fee to buy the plot and the materials to build the building.

      Now once you've done that, please provide all of us the math of your result for thousands of crafts from t3 to t8. Compare the food consumption of each and stone degradation of the building. Make out the food cost for the building and now you have the minimum you need to pay. But wait, there's more, you need to include 50-150mil for the plot pricing too. so there ya go, adjust the tax rate so you can keep the station fed, reimburse that 50-150mil initial cost and still make a profit.

      AKA, either build your own on your island and lose a ton of RRR due to it being in your island and not in town and pay the fee that a player invested so you could use it or buy your own damn plot to put yours at a more "reasonable" rate without expecting to have the current cartel gut you open for undercutting them even if you are barely profitable/losing silver (most probably not cause we all know you ain't gonna do the math to know the cost of running a town plot).

      Moral of the story, either already have billions to oppose the cartels and force them to be less "greedy" on the taxes so it's more affordable, accept the loses of not giving cartels a single penny by using your own island or keep paying them since you are lacking the knowledge that;s needed to operate a crafting station.

      oh wait, i'm starting to repeat myself, true, there's only 3 options that are valid in this scenario. Only 4th scenario is to use your guild/alliance hideout to refine/craft if they invested in that and still, expect to pay 15-50% tax in there too (and more like 85-125% for refiners/cook/mill/saddler/alchemist)
    • I too was in the same boat as yourself and thought the taxes in town were extortion. So I used my guild island that charges a 8-10% tax rate. You loose the benefit of the Resource Return Rate (RRR), however save some silver.

      When you are starting out, that was a good option as you are correct you will loose. But you only loose until your skills get to the point that your focus really starting providing returns. Focus can boost the RRR to greater than 45% resource return.

      Now the equations start shifting back in your favour as focus is where the money is. Once you start getting value from focus, the resource return value starts to over take the crafting expenses and is where the profit lies.

      Open your destiny board and start looking at your crafting skills and understand the benefits focus gives you and then you will see where the money is.

      Also, don't ever craft without having the appropriate journals in you pack, even if you have no intention of using labourers. These too return more silver to your crafting equation. Once you get in the higher tiers, those books can make a pretty penny or two.
      ItsNewbie
      ----------------------
      https://www.aoherald.com/

      The post was edited 1 time, last by ItsNewbie ().

    • I'm not argueing that merchant craft stations aren't of use. In some cases they do offer enhanced profits, and also, I doubt I will raise my on-island shops above T6 so will have to use town shops for T7 and T8 work when I get to those levels and they are essential for many players. Just saying that the common meme that they are better is often mot the case.

      Consider that example where it cost about 20000 silver on the 118 items or 169 per item.

      My T5 toolmaker uses 8 food points to make one hammer or 800 for 100 hammers. If I feed him carrot soup at 77 points per bow,l that's about 11 bowls of soup. Carrot soup selling for 212 per bowl, that is 2332 total or a bit over 23 per hammer. Much cheaper.
      Learn something new every day.
    • ItsNewbie wrote:

      I too was in the same boat as yourself and thought the taxes in town were extortion. So I used my guild island that charges a 8-10% tax rate. You loose the benefit of the Resource Return Rate (RRR), however save some silver.

      When you are starting out, that was a good option as you are correct you will loose. But you only loose until your skills get to the point that your focus really starting providing returns. Focus can boost the RRR to greater than 45% resource return.

      Now the equations start shifting back in your favour as focus is where the money is. Once you start getting value from focus, the resource return value starts to over take the crafting expenses and is where the profit lies.

      Open your destiny board and start looking at your crafting skills and understand the benefits focus gives you and then you will see where the money is.

      Also, don't ever craft without having the appropriate journals in you pack, even if you have no intention of using labourers. These too return more silver to your crafting equation. Once you get in the higher tiers, those books can make a pretty penny or two.
      only issue is that there's no books for the mill. So the gains from focus alone aren't enough. at 397/400 in plate armor crafting, i went from 44% to 47.9% RRR that's only a 4% increase. That's not enough to cover the cost of having it on your island since the difference between your island and the city is 5%.

      In this case, he would need to be close to 770/800 in food crafting to have the same focus "gains" as I have in plates. That's way at of reach as of rn and will take him close to a year if he crafts only with focus to get that close and even then, he might not even be there still due to how expensive it can get if you just craft for specs.

      Crafting on your island is almost never the answer and if you think so, it might take you a couple months before you see the benefits on the "short" terms.
      That would only comes in the long term and instead of building on personal island, you just buy a plot in town and craft there for "free" and make a couple mil a month from the station too if you manage it properly.