Rework Whispering Bow

    • Rework Whispering Bow

      I'd like to make a suggestion to change whispering bow, both to increase it's use and keep a unique identity.

      First let's acknowledge the issue - the role. Right now, it is a long-range auto-attack focused weapon that effectively plays WORSE than the normal bow. In team play environment, the normal bow will shred a target to deal more damage AND allow teammates to deal more damage. At the same time, the uptime for the ability is also pathetic. The bow (in the instance of slow attacks or no attacks) can be up FOREVER with a 30 second duration and a 20 second cooldown. The whispering bow has 8 second duration and 20 second cooldown. Realistically speaking, the bow will be able to refresh the ability and still be useful, while the whispering bow has to be useless for 12 seconds (assuming he even got to use the 8 seconds of ability against a defenseless target).

      How to improve: I think the range and magic damage components keep this weapon unique and strong. I'd like to see a change to the ability that helps with the duration portion, which becomes useless if a defensive ability is used, because the 8 second will be burnt out and the weapon will largely deal zero damage. Change the ability to a toggle effect, which allows it to consume mana per autoattack, while keeping the same effect. This allows the bow strength in that it is unpurgeable, and is not gated to a small window to use abilities. The auto-attack mana cost can be high for balancing purposes, trying to push the user to ensure he or she uses it during windows where the burst damage is useful.

      Thank you for reading, look forward to responses.
    • Owlsane wrote:

      What really needs wispering bow (also any auto-attack builds) is to get their standtime on auto-attack drastically reduced. Otherwise any change beside the one that can make weapons stupidly broken are pointless and won't solve the agency issue.
      Which is also why I revived your old thread on auto-attack stand-time. Do you have these discussions in the round-table? I see your name listed as a member.
    • Another thread for Whispering bow and here i am again (hahaha xD) to say that Whispering bow should attack while moving when its E are running.
      In others words its means 0 standtime when you use whispering Bow E.

      Owlsane wrote:

      What really needs wispering bow (also any auto-attack builds) is to get their standtime on auto-attack drastically reduced. Otherwise any change beside the one that can make weapons stupidly broken are pointless and won't solve the agency issue.
      Yes. I agree. We have seen some buffs for the whispering bow but none of these worked because the problem was not solved. The problem is if you run while your E is running, you lost DMG, because whispering bow needs of its E to deal dmg.

      But, if SBI put the hability of moving while shooting on tenacity shoes, they would fix 2 problems in one hit. First is reworking that useless shoes, second is solving the main problem of whispering bow for PvP. For that, check my new thread xD.

      Then we should solve the "Q" problem. We dont have a "Q" useful for whispering bow. reworking multishot would fix 2 problems in one hit again. Reworking that useless "Q" and buffing whispering bow indirectly.
      Multishot: Hit enemies in a cone in front of you for 66.3 dmg(no change until now). Give you one slow-arrow(similar to assassin spirit, spirit spear, heroic charge). For every slow-arrow accumulated, you will slow down the target by 5% for 1.5sec for every auto attack that hit him. Maximum for 3 slow-arrow(15%). The slow-arrow remains for 6sec.
    • DirtySentinel wrote:

      Owlsane wrote:

      Yes and no. They rather use their ressources in solving zonecapping and mega alliance stuff and make quick placebo changes like warbow and whatnot
      Yikes. But I guess it is significant.
      Feels like it didn't change the situation. Have no clue about it tho.


      ViniColen wrote:

      Another thread for Whispering bow and here i am again (hahaha xD) to say that Whispering bow should attack while moving when its E are running.
      In others words its means 0 standtime when you use whispering Bow E.

      Owlsane wrote:

      What really needs wispering bow (also any auto-attack builds) is to get their standtime on auto-attack drastically reduced. Otherwise any change beside the one that can make weapons stupidly broken are pointless and won't solve the agency issue.
      Yes. I agree. We have seen some buffs for the whispering bow but none of these worked because the problem was not solved. The problem is if you run while your E is running, you lost DMG, because whispering bow needs of its E to deal dmg.
      But, if SBI put the hability of moving while shooting on tenacity shoes, they would fix 2 problems in one hit. First is reworking that useless shoes, second is solving the main problem of whispering bow for PvP. For that, check my new thread xD.
      A pure removal of standtime will never ever happen, i'm quite confident about it. The reason is simple. You just dps and move full speed at the same time. At this moment why do you play anithing else when whisper bow allows you this? It will be more broken than warbow's kiting by a landslide. Don't bring over complicated stuff with the self slow in between auto-attack it would make the gameplay even more clunkier. Anyway.

      Wispering bow like every weapon in the game (but mostly auto-based weapons) get standime reduced to be in line with most of Q spells for example. I'll give some examples :

      -If Explosive bolt has 0.3 standtime for a 2s cd Q spell that means you stay immobile on avg 0.15s per second which imo is a very good damage source with a comfortable standtime (i feel having good spacing options)
      -If Vile curse has 0.2 standtime for a 2s cd Q spell that means you stay immobile on avg 0.1s per second (even greater mobility)
      -Now in other hand we have auto-attacks which has 0.4 standtime for each auto (attack speed varies for weapons) and a few exeptions having 0.26 standtime. More info on that topic. Let that sink in your head. A simple auto-attack has twice and more standtime than any decent Q spell. Any bows (1.3 AS) you literally stay half a sec immobile per second on average. The slowest AS crossbow (0.67 AS) makes you stay immobile almost 2 time longer than Explosive bolt (0.26s per second).

      Ideally we're looking a standtime that is in line with the common Q spells 0.1-0.15 standtime per second on average. That is a very low standtime making auto-builds not clunky at all, unlock depth for kiitng and spacing and even for non auto-based weapons to deal small but reliable damage.

      ViniColen wrote:

      Then we should solve the "Q" problem. We dont have a "Q" useful for whispering bow. reworking multishot would fix 2 problems in one hit again. Reworking that useless "Q" and buffing whispering bow indirectly.Multishot: Hit enemies in a cone in front of you for 66.3 dmg(no change until now). Give you one slow-arrow(similar to assassin spirit, spirit spear, heroic charge). For every slow-arrow accumulated, you will slow down the target by 5% for 1.5sec for every auto attack that hit him. Maximum for 3 slow-arrow(15%). The slow-arrow remains for 6sec.
      I've suggested many time multiples possibilities of changing this "multishot". One iteration was literally a spirit charge type of self buff that each stack you get you will deal an "extra shot" dealing the auto-attack damage (so it makes you look like you're shooting multiples shot at the same time) or simply swap both multishot and explosive shot so we get a true bread and butter Q spell for whisper bow and normal bow.

      Again overcomplicating stuff. We just need a simple auto-based Q spell, bread and butter damage. Also slow poison is here for that.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Owlsane ().

    • Owlsane wrote:

      DirtySentinel wrote:

      Owlsane wrote:

      Yes and no. They rather use their ressources in solving zonecapping and mega alliance stuff and make quick placebo changes like warbow and whatnot
      Yikes. But I guess it is significant.
      Feels like it didn't change the situation. Have no clue about it tho.

      ViniColen wrote:

      Another thread for Whispering bow and here i am again (hahaha xD) to say that Whispering bow should attack while moving when its E are running.
      In others words its means 0 standtime when you use whispering Bow E.

      Owlsane wrote:

      What really needs wispering bow (also any auto-attack builds) is to get their standtime on auto-attack drastically reduced. Otherwise any change beside the one that can make weapons stupidly broken are pointless and won't solve the agency issue.
      Yes. I agree. We have seen some buffs for the whispering bow but none of these worked because the problem was not solved. The problem is if you run while your E is running, you lost DMG, because whispering bow needs of its E to deal dmg.But, if SBI put the hability of moving while shooting on tenacity shoes, they would fix 2 problems in one hit. First is reworking that useless shoes, second is solving the main problem of whispering bow for PvP. For that, check my new thread xD.
      A pure removal of standtime will never ever happen, i'm quite confident about it. The reason is simple. You just dps and move full speed at the same time. At this moment why do you play anithing else when whisper bow allows you this? It will be more broken than warbow's kiting by a landslide. Don't bring over complicated stuff with the self slow in between auto-attack it would make the gameplay even more clunkier. Anyway.
      Wispering bow like every weapon in the game (but mostly auto-based weapons) get standime reduced to be in line with most of Q spells for example. I'll give some examples :

      -If Explosive bolt has 0.3 standtime for a 2s cd Q spell that means you stay immobile on avg 0.15s per second which imo is a very good damage source with a comfortable standtime (i feel having good spacing options)
      -If Vile curse has 0.2 standtime for a 2s cd Q spell that means you stay immobile on avg 0.1s per second (even greater mobility)
      -Now in other hand we have auto-attacks which has 0.4 standtime for each auto (attack speed varies for weapons) and a few exeptions having 0.26 standtime. More info on that topic. Let that sink in your head. A simple auto-attack has twice and more standtime than any decent Q spell. Any bows (1.3 AS) you literally stay half a sec immobile per second on average. The slowest AS crossbow (0.67 AS) makes you stay immobile almost 2 time longer than Explosive bolt (0.26s per second).

      Ideally we're looking a standtime that is in line with the common Q spells 0.1-0.15 standtime per second on average. That is a very low standtime making auto-builds not clunky at all, unlock depth for kiitng and spacing and even for non auto-based weapons to deal small but reliable damage.

      ViniColen wrote:

      Then we should solve the "Q" problem. We dont have a "Q" useful for whispering bow. reworking multishot would fix 2 problems in one hit again. Reworking that useless "Q" and buffing whispering bow indirectly.Multishot: Hit enemies in a cone in front of you for 66.3 dmg(no change until now). Give you one slow-arrow(similar to assassin spirit, spirit spear, heroic charge). For every slow-arrow accumulated, you will slow down the target by 5% for 1.5sec for every auto attack that hit him. Maximum for 3 slow-arrow(15%). The slow-arrow remains for 6sec.
      I've suggested many time multiples possibilities of changing this "multishot". One iteration was literally a spirit charge type of self buff that each stack you get you will deal an "extra shot" dealing the auto-attack damage (so it makes you look like you're shooting multiples shot at the same time) or simply swap both multishot and explosive shot so we get a true bread and butter Q spell for whisper bow and normal bow.
      Again overcomplicating stuff. We just need a simple auto-based Q spell, bread and butter damage. Also slow poison is here for that.
      oh yes, i agree with you. 0 standtime can create a real OP weapon. This is why i said in others threads what we can do about it. Not allowing player using its boots, allowing ppl to attack while moving but with movement penalty and others more.
      What we are doing here is pointing the problem of Whispering bow, and arguing some possibles reworks/buffs. Whispering bow is possibly the worst weapon at the moment, and SBI possibly already know that because of the inumerous threads saying whispering bow is a crap xD.
      They can be working right now on that bow, and they can use ppl ideas to do a rework. So, our role here is not to do the an perfect balance/rework. Our role is only to give an idea that can be used by the SBI. They will test it, not us. We dont have idea how our ideas can affect all the game xD. So, its just an idea. They will judge if it is cool/functional/notOP/notUP