Crowd control needs a nerf.

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    • kheeta wrote:

      Cc resistance was buffed hardly several updates ago
      A lot of zvz setups where fckd
      Actual zvz is all about aoe pressure with bit of cc
      Not like it was before- 1-2 aoe dd+ crowd of ccers
      What u want more?
      The tiny buff to CC resistance did nothing, try hard gankers still think they're skilled because they chain CC someone who can't fight back to death.

      Why do you enjoy fighting statues?
    • MekaDeth wrote:

      kheeta wrote:

      Cc resistance was buffed hardly several updates ago
      A lot of zvz setups where fckd
      Actual zvz is all about aoe pressure with bit of cc
      Not like it was before- 1-2 aoe dd+ crowd of ccers
      What u want more?
      The tiny buff to CC resistance did nothing, try hard gankers still think they're skilled because they chain CC someone who can't fight back to death.
      Why do you enjoy fighting statues?
      If you are hopelessly outnumbered you're supposed to die to that. Is the price and risk of beign alone. Even so, beign ganked and cced to death happens when you have no escape measures to get away, such as escape builds plus map awareness.
    • New

      Gabumon wrote:

      MekaDeth wrote:

      kheeta wrote:

      Cc resistance was buffed hardly several updates ago
      A lot of zvz setups where fckd
      Actual zvz is all about aoe pressure with bit of cc
      Not like it was before- 1-2 aoe dd+ crowd of ccers
      What u want more?
      The tiny buff to CC resistance did nothing, try hard gankers still think they're skilled because they chain CC someone who can't fight back to death.Why do you enjoy fighting statues?
      If you are hopelessly outnumbered you're supposed to die to that. Is the price and risk of beign alone. Even so, beign ganked and cced to death happens when you have no escape measures to get away, such as escape builds plus map awareness.
      Who said it was supposed to be that way? First game I've played, where numbers out weigh skill. Sounds like you just want your easy kills from players that can't fight back.

      Just listen to yourself, you're pretty much saying "I brought more people, therefore I earned the win".
    • New

      MekaDeth wrote:

      Gabumon wrote:

      MekaDeth wrote:

      kheeta wrote:

      Cc resistance was buffed hardly several updates ago
      A lot of zvz setups where fckd
      Actual zvz is all about aoe pressure with bit of cc
      Not like it was before- 1-2 aoe dd+ crowd of ccers
      What u want more?
      The tiny buff to CC resistance did nothing, try hard gankers still think they're skilled because they chain CC someone who can't fight back to death.Why do you enjoy fighting statues?
      If you are hopelessly outnumbered you're supposed to die to that. Is the price and risk of beign alone. Even so, beign ganked and cced to death happens when you have no escape measures to get away, such as escape builds plus map awareness.
      Who said it was supposed to be that way? First game I've played, where numbers out weigh skill. Sounds like you just want your easy kills from players that can't fight back.
      Just listen to yourself, you're pretty much saying "I brought more people, therefore I earned the win".

      Eh... yes? Unless you're an smart warrior, sheer numbers should always be a factor. If a farmer crossess the woods with his Ox and his wife, two highwaymen WILL ROB THEM. That's part of the fantasy, isn't it? Here is quality wins. But if, lets say, the same farmer crossess the woods with two hired soldiers, maybe two highwaymen won't be able to rob them, but 10 should do, unless the soldiers are literally master warriors and the robbers are poorly equiped starving teenagers. I'm not talking about albion logic, I'm totally talking about how it was in the times Albion tries to emulate. LITERALLY ALBION VIDEOS ARE ABOUT HOW YOU DIE TO GANKERS IF YOU GO ALONE. Haven't you watched them? Is not just 1 albion video/comercial of it, there is plenty. Risk of beign alone should always be a factor, and will always be a factor. No matter what measures you apply, if you go in the dangerous zones alone, the risk of beign catched by smart gankers will always be there. And is not about "I'm so good I'm a ganker who ganks in a blob", is just about how the game portraits risk vs reward.
      If you manage to escape, great! Sometimes you will. But if every person that's ganked escapes just because the game is oh so mercyful on them, what's the point even? And don't even suggest that someone traveling alone should have the "chance" to fight back against 10 gankers. Sometimes they have, and those make great videos/montages/clips. But should NEVER be the norm.
    • New

      Gabumon wrote:

      MekaDeth wrote:

      Gabumon wrote:

      MekaDeth wrote:

      kheeta wrote:

      Cc resistance was buffed hardly several updates ago
      A lot of zvz setups where fckd
      Actual zvz is all about aoe pressure with bit of cc
      Not like it was before- 1-2 aoe dd+ crowd of ccers
      What u want more?
      The tiny buff to CC resistance did nothing, try hard gankers still think they're skilled because they chain CC someone who can't fight back to death.Why do you enjoy fighting statues?
      If you are hopelessly outnumbered you're supposed to die to that. Is the price and risk of beign alone. Even so, beign ganked and cced to death happens when you have no escape measures to get away, such as escape builds plus map awareness.
      Who said it was supposed to be that way? First game I've played, where numbers out weigh skill. Sounds like you just want your easy kills from players that can't fight back.Just listen to yourself, you're pretty much saying "I brought more people, therefore I earned the win".
      Eh... yes? Unless you're an smart warrior, sheer numbers should always be a factor. If a farmer crossess the woods with his Ox and his wife, two highwaymen WILL ROB THEM. That's part of the fantasy, isn't it? Here is quality wins. But if, lets say, the same farmer crossess the woods with two hired soldiers, maybe two highwaymen won't be able to rob them, but 10 should do, unless the soldiers are literally master warriors and the robbers are poorly equiped starving teenagers. I'm not talking about albion logic, I'm totally talking about how it was in the times Albion tries to emulate. LITERALLY ALBION VIDEOS ARE ABOUT HOW YOU DIE TO GANKERS IF YOU GO ALONE. Haven't you watched them? Is not just 1 albion video/comercial of it, there is plenty. Risk of beign alone should always be a factor, and will always be a factor. No matter what measures you apply, if you go in the dangerous zones alone, the risk of beign catched by smart gankers will always be there. And is not about "I'm so good I'm a ganker who ganks in a blob", is just about how the game portraits risk vs reward.
      If you manage to escape, great! Sometimes you will. But if every person that's ganked escapes just because the game is oh so mercyful on them, what's the point even? And don't even suggest that someone traveling alone should have the "chance" to fight back against 10 gankers. Sometimes they have, and those make great videos/montages/clips. But should NEVER be the norm.
      This video explains it better than I can.
    • New

      MekaDeth wrote:

      Who said it was supposed to be that way? First game I've played, where numbers out weigh skill. Sounds like you just want your easy kills from players that can't fight back.
      Just listen to yourself, you're pretty much saying "I brought more people, therefore I earned the win".
      Yes, that's absolutely correct.
      Welcome to albion. The game, SBI made exactly that way, and dont wanna do anything to make the game skill based, instead of gear/numbers based.
    • New

      @MekaDeth
      That video is quite outdated and rather irrelivant to the current state of the game. Reputation system and safe zones exist for the players who are not playing the game for the hardcore PvP. T7 & T8 zones are all black because players are meant to PvP if they want to reach their full potential in the game.

      The person gives a poor example of League of Legends gameplay. Fizz is the only champion with invulnerability status effect in his base skills. Lissandra has it on her ultimate. Many champions in the game don't have an escape ability in their kit which means that they are required to play extremely carefully. If a person playing malzahar intends to stun lock you, they can press F then R and you are locked for 4 seconds. Leona, Nautilius, Rammus and many other champions have point to click CC in the game. At the time when he made the video Galio could Flash + Taunt the whole enemy team. There are two items in the game for cc-cleanse and another one that gives you invulnerability for 3 seconds but you can't do anything at the same time, all of them have minutes long cooldown. In LoL if players don't have the skills to dodge a crowd control without using any item or ability they are just bad. You learn to avoid getting caught or you stay in low trash elo where you keep on blaming everyone but yourself for losing. Besides that, we can't really be comparing the combat style of a MOBA to that of a MMORPG. Making comparisons between those two games is pointless.

      I have played lots of games but in all of those sheer numbers with adequate cooperation have always had greater value than the individual's skills to a certain degree. The same is with Albion. And that's the way it should be with every game.
      Life is Heaven & Hell is Living
    • New


      Apotosariel wrote:

      @MekaDeth
      That video is quite outdated and rather irrelivant to the current state of the game. Reputation system and safe zones exist for the players who are not playing the game for the hardcore PvP. T7 & T8 zones are all black because players are meant to PvP if they want to reach their full potential in the game.

      The person gives a poor example of League of Legends gameplay. Fizz is the only champion with invulnerability status effect in his base skills. Lissandra has it on her ultimate. Many champions in the game don't have an escape ability in their kit which means that they are required to play extremely carefully. If a person playing malzahar intends to stun lock you, they can press F then R and you are locked for 4 seconds. Leona, Nautilius, Rammus and many other champions have point to click CC in the game. At the time when he made the video Galio could Flash + Taunt the whole enemy team. There are two items in the game for cc-cleanse and another one that gives you invulnerability for 3 seconds but you can't do anything at the same time, all of them have minutes long cooldown. In LoL if players don't have the skills to dodge a crowd control without using any item or ability they are just bad. You learn to avoid getting caught or you stay in low trash elo where you keep on blaming everyone but yourself for losing. Besides that, we can't really be comparing the combat style of a MOBA to that of a MMORPG. Making comparisons between those two games is pointless.

      I have played lots of games but in all of those sheer numbers with adequate cooperation have always had greater value than the individual's skills to a certain degree. The same is with Albion. And that's the way it should be with every game.
      Yes the video is out dated, but the point still stands about skill vs numbers, quality over quantity. Have you played ESO? That game gives you temporary CC immunity after being CCed as well as many options to be temporarily immune to CC (potions, abilities etc). Unfortunately the COVID lockdowns have caused an influx of players into that game more than the servers can handle, that coupled with the last few patches that have brought in many bugs has caused me to take a break from ESO. It is hands down the best MMORPG for solo players and I will be returning once the issues are fixed.

      Check this out.
    • New

      ESO... A great game but really bad excample
      ESO and Albion are almost on excatly oposition...

      ESO is casual friendly, Albion not.
      ESO have hight empashis on storyteling and solo adveture, AO has some quest and narrative literaty only to intoduce new players to basic mechanics.
      PvP in ESO is a small addition to game, AO is based on PVP (every is relate to pvp, from market, gatering, crafting, farming etc.)
      ESO have qucker phase of combat, with lower CD and more skills to use. Also in ESO everyclass, every archetype can load a bunch of CC skills who have also dmg on them and other effect so imunitty after being CC is almost mandartory beacous w/o that a single player can easly stunlock entire army xD In AO You need some ppl who had specific setup for CC's and they need toggeter chain that CC's to make a effect, so imunnity isn't needed.
      And finaly ESO is a themepark storydriven MMO with PVP option but only in designated areas (whole ESO is like a blue zone with one or two red maps).
      AO is sandbox full loot pvp game with limited option do play w/o PVP (mainly in early begining of the game).
      So a mechanics who are right and are working in one game can work really bad in other.
    • New

      I do feel that there is currently a lack in huge damage/cc spells requiring being skillful to even land them. If you just select a target and press a button and your character move by itself to be in range and just applies/do the spell, it removes the capacity of missing the skill that comes from skillshots which makes it not require any skill. Obviously there is other aspect like positioning and maintaining respectful distance from the enemy to mitigate incoming damage.

      This is one of the reason currently the game feels more Rock-paper-scissor than actually having the "skillful" player come out on top.
      It doesn't mean that you can't come out on top because you are more skillful, just means that the skill difference between two opponents have way less impact than if the other guy's gear just counters straight up your gear and if it does happen, it's a press and activate skill that doesn't require skillshots dps wise or really good activation timing for defensive skills(cleric is a decent example of good activation timing to have an impact and hunter is the exact contrary since regardless of timing you'll almost end up reflecting some bits of damage) which just wins the fight more often than not due to the clear disadvantage you are in.

      Since it is a mainly pvp oriented game, it would make sense to see lots of skills requiring some type of aiming/skill to land like it kinda is in LoL. Some weapons that are based on auto-attack speed are different since it usually can be cleanse by defensive skills to counter them, which is their drawbacks.

      I really just feel like that you can place a player with 10k hours in Albion against 1 with 1k hours and due to what gear they chose, it won't even be the most skillful player that will win most of the time, just the one that has the better rock-paper-scissor build that will come out on top. That shit makes no sense when it's pvp full loot and should greatly rewards skills.

      Lots of weapon have high amount of damages and cc with the only requirement to land the skill is being in range of "selected" target. That is an issue imo, specially if it's an aoe spell. There is obviously some exception thought. claws aren't much of an issue regarding that cc even thought, it could be really interesting to have a higher skill ceiling and actually having people being able to "miss" that disembowel spell since currently, it has 100% effective rate. If you are in range and click it, it is a guaranteed cc landed. On the other end, There's morning stars that actually require impeccable timing to use and be really effective with.
      QS is part of the issue in having too much "cc" power on a spell that isn't a skillshot too. Claws are in a better state than QS and QS recent nerf was a good step in the right direction for it being balanced. There is a lot of different ways to buff/nerf weapons/armors. The hard part is figuring the right one. So far, the Dev team made a really great job to nerf properly some of the biggest unbalanced weapon without fully killing that weapon.
      There was a couple hit and miss, but that's normal, they are learning with us what works and doesn't.

      Sometimes something can be way to strong on paper and in real situation, be actually not that strong due how fights actually end up happening. Thought it doesn't mean that said weapons/armors can't be tweak to be more balanced since sometimes it might still be too strong even though in practical use it sees limited success.

      Can't wait to see what the Avalonian weapons will be doing regarding new cc spells and how it will affect the meta.

      P.S. don't forget that resistance potion's do give % of cc resistances on top of having more defenses. Just make the right choice on your potions you are using for fights.
    • New

      Deathskills wrote:

      I do feel that there is currently a lack in huge damage/cc spells requiring being skillful to even land them. If you just select a target and press a button and your character move by itself to be in range and just applies/do the spell, it removes the capacity of missing the skill that comes from skillshots which makes it not require any skill. Obviously there is other aspect like positioning and maintaining respectful distance from the enemy to mitigate incoming damage.

      This is one of the reason currently the game feels more Rock-paper-scissor than actually having the "skillful" player come out on top.
      It doesn't mean that you can't come out on top because you are more skillful, just means that the skill difference between two opponents have way less impact than if the other guy's gear just counters straight up your gear and if it does happen, it's a press and activate skill that doesn't require skillshots dps wise or really good activation timing for defensive skills(cleric is a decent example of good activation timing to have an impact and hunter is the exact contrary since regardless of timing you'll almost end up reflecting some bits of damage) which just wins the fight more often than not due to the clear disadvantage you are in.

      Since it is a mainly pvp oriented game, it would make sense to see lots of skills requiring some type of aiming/skill to land like it kinda is in LoL. Some weapons that are based on auto-attack speed are different since it usually can be cleanse by defensive skills to counter them, which is their drawbacks.

      I really just feel like that you can place a player with 10k hours in Albion against 1 with 1k hours and due to what gear they chose, it won't even be the most skillful player that will win most of the time, just the one that has the better rock-paper-scissor build that will come out on top. That shit makes no sense when it's pvp full loot and should greatly rewards skills.

      Lots of weapon have high amount of damages and cc with the only requirement to land the skill is being in range of "selected" target. That is an issue imo, specially if it's an aoe spell. There is obviously some exception thought. claws aren't much of an issue regarding that cc even thought, it could be really interesting to have a higher skill ceiling and actually having people being able to "miss" that disembowel spell since currently, it has 100% effective rate. If you are in range and click it, it is a guaranteed cc landed. On the other end, There's morning stars that actually require impeccable timing to use and be really effective with.
      QS is part of the issue in having too much "cc" power on a spell that isn't a skillshot too. Claws are in a better state than QS and QS recent nerf was a good step in the right direction for it being balanced. There is a lot of different ways to buff/nerf weapons/armors. The hard part is figuring the right one. So far, the Dev team made a really great job to nerf properly some of the biggest unbalanced weapon without fully killing that weapon.
      There was a couple hit and miss, but that's normal, they are learning with us what works and doesn't.

      Sometimes something can be way to strong on paper and in real situation, be actually not that strong due how fights actually end up happening. Thought it doesn't mean that said weapons/armors can't be tweak to be more balanced since sometimes it might still be too strong even though in practical use it sees limited success.

      Can't wait to see what the Avalonian weapons will be doing regarding new cc spells and how it will affect the meta.

      P.S. don't forget that resistance potion's do give % of cc resistances on top of having more defenses. Just make the right choice on your potions you are using for fights.
      I agree on most what You say.
      Albion should have more skilshot based abilities. But we are right now in "transition phase", some skills was already changed from "select a target and click" to skillshot and i think more of them will follow. We need just give devs some time for that.

      But i disagree in topic that skill aren't make a diffrenecne... It makes. But Albion is such a game that skill of indywidual players don;t make big diference. It's more like strategy based mmo... You see "a skill wining a fight" mainly in medium/big fights. General knowledge of game is impacfull, You need to have balanced "army" of allied players, You need to know when call to engade, when fall back or pretend Your group is reatreding. Albion isn't a game when a outstanding hero win a fight, but when a well equped smaller or bigger army can cooperate and are well orginased. PvP in Albion for me is like being a simple soldier who trust own life (or equpment :P ) in leader hands :)
      Or You can be a leader (caller) and You play like in RTS game, giving a comand to Your squads, setting a strategy etc. and trust that Your "units" can execute Your orders as intended.
      Ofc like in most of RTS games some of Your "units" have beter stats (better equipment), some have greater experience (more skill), some have less... But more important is a strategy of battle not a indywidual skills of Your units.

      I remember a situation from long time ago when first we are fighting and most of ours ppl was quite experence but they was to much "indywidual", they known better what to do and they do what they think was better... it was a wipe :P
      Another fight... On our side was one experenced comander, one experence player and a bunch of "newbe" who just started playing but they had a one great advantage... They almost bliendly do what a "comender" told them to do...
      And they was suprised that they eradicate enemy with absolutly no casualites on our side...

      Skill is impacfull but rather skill do know whem who should do that skill in terms that indywidual player know how to push a buttons :P
      Ofc in ideal sytuation both should have be equaly important.
    • New

      NdwZ wrote:

      Or You can be a leader (caller) and You play like in RTS game, giving a comand to Your squads, setting a strategy etc. and trust that Your "units" can execute Your orders as intended.
      Ofc like in most of RTS games some of Your "units" have beter stats (better equipment), some have greater experience (more skill), some have less... But more important is a strategy of battle not a indywidual skills of Your units.

      I remember a situation from long time ago when first we are fighting and most of ours ppl was quite experence but they was to much "indywidual", they known better what to do and they do what they think was better... it was a wipe :P
      Another fight... On our side was one experenced comander, one experence player and a bunch of "newbe" who just started playing but they had a one great advantage... They almost bliendly do what a "comender" told them to do...
      And they was suprised that they eradicate enemy with absolutly no casualites on our side...

      Skill is impacfull but rather skill do know whem who should do that skill in terms that indywidual player know how to push a buttons :P
      Ofc in ideal sytuation both should have be equaly important.
      You are right if it regards zergs. But in small scale, 1vsX (less than 10) and XvsX (so less than 10 players on each side) individual player skill should be able to drastically impact the fight while currently there isn't "enough" weapons that penalize the player for making a bad move per itself imo.
      And obviously, it's harder to make huge mistake when using a "select a target and click" spell compared to a skillshot. And obviously good positioning always makes a difference like it does in rts and moba's for fights!

      I did notice the same change and we'll have big confirmation for sure once the avalonian weapons are out!