deathgivers too strong, it needs a nerf

    • I like the Idea of 1 vs 1 Dungens. My recommendation are nerfing the too strong 1 vs 1 builds.
      In my opinion nature healers, deathgivers and curse staffs are too strong.

      -My recommendation is to reduce the heal power of healing staffs if you target yourself. Maybe self heal sould heal only be 60-70 % of the normal heal (when you heal another player.)

      If this would ruin 5 vs 5 fights, then make the corrupted dungens have an anti heal debuff, so only healers inside the corrupted dungens have less heal power, if this is possible.

      The second weapon which is way to strong are deathgivers. Maybe add a stealth penelty, as it was been added for heals and stuns. If a player have healed himself, the second heal in a short row will heal a bit less and a second stun in a row will stun the player for shorter ammount of time. Should be the same with stealth.

      if you use an assasin jacket and after it your hellion shoes, the invis should be much shorter.

      The third op weapon are cursed staffs. They should be reworked.
    • Brombeerbabak wrote:

      I like the Idea of 1 vs 1 Dungens. My recommendation are nerfing the too strong 1 vs 1 builds.
      In my opinion nature healers, deathgivers and curse staffs are too strong.

      -My recommendation is to reduce the heal power of healing staffs if you target yourself. Maybe self heal sould heal only be 60-70 % of the normal heal (when you heal another player.)

      If this would ruin 5 vs 5 fights, then make the corrupted dungens have an anti heal debuff, so only healers inside the corrupted dungens have less heal power, if this is possible.

      The second weapon which is way to strong are deathgivers. Maybe add a stealth penelty, as it was been added for heals and stuns. If a player have healed himself, the second heal in a short row will heal a bit less and a second stun in a row will stun the player for shorter ammount of time. Should be the same with stealth.

      if you use an assasin jacket and after it your hellion shoes, the invis should be much shorter.

      The third op weapon are cursed staffs. They should be reworked.
      cdung meta is not even close to what you say:)
      Op are light crossbow, heavy crossbow, black hands, regular bow, broadsword, claymore etc
    • kheeta wrote:

      Brombeerbabak wrote:

      I like the Idea of 1 vs 1 Dungens. My recommendation are nerfing the too strong 1 vs 1 builds.
      In my opinion nature healers, deathgivers and curse staffs are too strong.

      -My recommendation is to reduce the heal power of healing staffs if you target yourself. Maybe self heal sould heal only be 60-70 % of the normal heal (when you heal another player.)

      If this would ruin 5 vs 5 fights, then make the corrupted dungens have an anti heal debuff, so only healers inside the corrupted dungens have less heal power, if this is possible.

      The second weapon which is way to strong are deathgivers. Maybe add a stealth penelty, as it was been added for heals and stuns. If a player have healed himself, the second heal in a short row will heal a bit less and a second stun in a row will stun the player for shorter ammount of time. Should be the same with stealth.

      if you use an assasin jacket and after it your hellion shoes, the invis should be much shorter.

      The third op weapon are cursed staffs. They should be reworked.
      meta is not even close to what you say:)Op are light crossbow, heavy crossbow, black hands, regular bow, broadsword, claymore etc Never had problem fighting claymores or crossbows. Black hands are strong, especially with the mage robe and 2 purges. Curse is strong as fuck and deathgiverers are invisible all time. They are super op ! What you are talking about. full stacks on assasin jacket and a 6.3 weapon + the hellion boots which give you 35 % more damage is insane.
    • I agree deathgivers needs either a nerf or a rework. And I would not stop there, whole dagger tree needs a revisit, Bloodletter (people is even running 5 of them in HGs) and 1h dagger have been OP (the latter being easier to counter tough), black hands and dagger pair are not so much played because the other daggers are so good that is somehow overshadowed.
      I understand the idea of making the tree a kind of a cannon glass, so I understand the idea of providing it high damage, but the problem is you forgot to add the glass in the coctel.
      But let's focus on deathgivers, at the moment the main issue imho is partnering the big damage with the best defense in the game: invisibity.
      Invisibility is the best defense because in practice it gives: invulnerability (because rival can't target you, he even loses you as a target in the process) and mobility (because the rival does not know where you are moving to). Items providing one of these have been meta over time (cleric gear, soldier helmet, assasin shoes, scholar sandals, etc.)
      In the deathgivers build you have at least 4-5 invisibility effects and 4-5 damage boosters, which turns out HUGE amount of damage while being invulnerable AND since the rival is not able to see/target you (which would allow purges, timig defenses, etc.) there is no way to counter it (which is what diferentiates it from other one shot builds such as pike, 1H curse, Xbow, etc.).
      IMHO, one shot builds should either not exist or be really easy countered, because they add nothing to the game but bad experiences, and when I say countered I mean not by specific skills but like gameplay. Good examples being:brimstone, sweeping, demon cape, gallatines etc. all of them dodgeable by moving.
      Also as a rule of thumb: partnering high mobility with high damage is not good idea (hello swords), high damage with high cc is not a good idea, high damage with high defenses is not a good idea (hello mage robe, cleric robe, cultist robe).
    • yiconomics wrote:

      How come I haven't died to any deathgivers in corrupted dungeon?
      Becuase you not met a deathgiver player, or becuase you beat them up ? If yes then tell me how.. With my spear i have only a chance if i would use guardian armour at the right time, when they stack up the assassin jacket, because the area they can be invisible in is not that large. They try to trick you with the boots or dash to trigger your guardian armour. even if i reveal them i have super hard time to beat them in a tank armour. How do you reveal them ? If i not use a guardian armour i n0ot stand a chance becuase they are invis all time and it is super hard to predict where they are and hit them while they are invis.
    • Brombeerbabak wrote:

      Eu gosto da ideia de 1 vs 1 Dungens. Minha recomendação é nerfar as compilações 1 vs 1 muito fortes.
      Na minha opinião, os curandeiros da natureza, doadores da morte e cajados de maldição são muito fortes.

      -Minha recomendação é reduzir o poder de cura dos bastões de cura se você mirar em si mesmo. Talvez um auto-cura deva curar apenas 60-70% da cura normal (quando você cura outro jogador.)

      Se isso arruinasse 5 contra 5 lutas, então faça com que os dungens fornecem um debuff anti-heal, então apenas os healers dentro dos dungens têm menos poder de cura, se isso for possível.

      A segunda arma que é muito forte são os doadores da morte. Talvez permaneça um penelty stealth, já que foi adicionado para curar e atordoar. Se um jogador se curou, uma segunda cura em uma linha curta irá curar um pouco menos e um segundo atordoamento consecutivo irá atordoar o jogador por um período de tempo menor. Deve ser o mesmo com stealth.

      se você usar uma jaqueta assassina e depois seus sapatos diabólicos, o invis deve ser muito mais curto.

      A terceira arma operacional são cajados amaldiçoados. Eles devem ser retrabalhados.
      Corrupted dungeons are like ratolandia, there is nothing but rats that enter the DG just to keep running, the corrupted dungeons were basically made to remove the slag from the HG X2 mice if you go to see the top 1 of the corrupted dungeon, everything is rat ( dagger, bleeder, bear paws) everything build that runs for a fuck and that are good for making dg.
    • Its not deathgivers that are the problem its chain slash. Daggers have never had a spell like it on the W. Main source of damage has always been the E, with some damage ability coming from sunder, but not much compared to other weapon Q spells.

      Chain slash has pretty much broken the fundamentals of daggers. Its the same thing with dagger pair too, being able to just E + W for a 100-0 combo.

      I love daggers, I have been playing them since 2015, but I don't like playing op shit. The change to chain slash damage was not enough, honestly I'd like to see chain slash reworked to be far less viable in 1v1.

      If they keep nerfing the dagger line E's because they added one OP W, it removes all other build options and forced people to play that W to keep the weapon viable. I seriously hope they do not do this, and instead fix what has been broken.
      Hop on in to my Discord and Twitch ^^
    • Khladraven wrote:

      Its not deathgivers that are the problem its chain slash. Daggers have never had a spell like it on the W. Main source of damage has always been the E, with some damage ability coming from sunder, but not much compared to other weapon Q spells.

      Chain slash has pretty much broken the fundamentals of daggers. Its the same thing with dagger pair too, being able to just E + W for a 100-0 combo.

      I love daggers, I have been playing them since 2015, but I don't like playing op shit. The change to chain slash damage was not enough, honestly I'd like to see chain slash reworked to be far less viable in 1v1.

      If they keep nerfing the dagger line E's because they added one OP W, it removes all other build options and forced people to play that W to keep the weapon viable. I seriously hope they do not do this, and instead fix what has been broken.
      Hypothetically you are right
      Theoretical concept of daggers play style like all old-rogue-players want to see (like me to) should be all around E skill
      But today game balance and other weapon lines are reworked and sometimes hard buffed so much so dagger players NEED that chain slash like it is now
      Other way game devs would be pushed to buff E skills to that state when the dagger line would be even more disbalanced and maybe truly OP
      Last changes of Chain with last changes to deathgivers made them much less OP compared to the state they where when you was actively streaming (long range low cd Dash etc)
      Year ago there wasn’t rly any chances to outplay your deathgivers build 1v1, but now that is real
      Current chain slash is equal trade to make dagger line equal to OP sword , crossbow and bow lines
    • kheeta wrote:

      Last changes of Chain with last changes to deathgivers made them much less OP compared to the state they where when you was actively streaming (long range low cd Dash etc)
      Year ago there wasn’t rly any chances to outplay your deathgivers build 1v1, but now that is real
      Current chain slash is equal trade to make dagger line equal to OP sword , crossbow and bow lines
      very much disagree. I couldnt one shot a healer without chain slash back then....

      No outplay? Wrong again, a 1v1 with a skilled player was still difficult, as they knew the counterplay. A 1v7 was only possible because so few knew how to properly play against it back then.

      I agree swords are so strong this meta, and xbows too are showing a lot of dominance, but they are seeing balancing already, daggers deserve the same.
      Hop on in to my Discord and Twitch ^^
    • not even just stalker hood. Deathgiver E invisible is a conditional invis, like the mercenary shoes. It will break if the user recieves damage.

      Essentially any DoT effect on the deathgiver player will prevent their E from making them invis in the first place. Direct AOE damage will also reveal them from invis, and since the deathgiver dash always puts them on the opposite side of their target, you can perform such an attack on that side to pull them out of stealth.

      If they are using an assassin jacket, yes stalker hood will reveal them from stealth, and if they are using Hellion shoes, the stalker hood will not only reveal them from the shoe invis. But will also cancel the shoes entirely. It's worth noting that guardian armor will do the same.

      As for Hellion shoe invis, any stun, or knockback will also interrupt the shoes cast time.

      Most weapons can have their skills changed to better counter them, it's just a matter of knowing how, and when to perform those abilities.

      Chain slash being the main problem because there is nothing you can only use a hard i-frame to protect from it, which is pretty impossible seen as it is an instant ability. That and it is quite difficult to distinguish it from the E, making counterplay to the right burst limited, and a difficult weapon to follow cd's on during a fight.
      Hop on in to my Discord and Twitch ^^

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Khladraven ().

    • Khladraven wrote:

      kheeta wrote:

      Last changes of Chain with last changes to deathgivers made them much less OP compared to the state they where when you was actively streaming (long range low cd Dash etc)
      Year ago there wasn’t rly any chances to outplay your deathgivers build 1v1, but now that is real
      Current chain slash is equal trade to make dagger line equal to OP sword , crossbow and bow lines
      very much disagree. I couldnt one shot a healer without chain slash back then....
      No outplay? Wrong again, a 1v1 with a skilled player was still difficult, as they knew the counterplay. A 1v7 was only possible because so few knew how to properly play against it back then.

      I agree swords are so strong this meta, and xbows too are showing a lot of dominance, but they are seeing balancing already, daggers deserve the same.
      I’m tellin like spear/sword/bloodletter/paws player
      Old type dgivers play style was much harder to outplay because after 1st dgivers engage I was unable to deal enough dmg or DoTs till inv is and second engage because of low Cd high range Dash and long invis from dgivers E
      Yes, there wasn’t any chances to kill healer but that means NOTHING in terms of weapons balancing
      Today I could kill same IP dgivers with carving,1h dagger,black hands, bloodletter something like 50% chance
      Old “long dash no chain slash” dgivers could be killed only if dgivers player is an idiot