For the love of God, fix/rework/buff nature staves

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    • For the love of God, fix/rework/buff nature staves

      Currently there are only 2 healer classes in Albion. It makes no sense to see one perform way better in all the fronts. 2v2 hg? Holy. 5v5 hg? Maybe nature/mostly holy. FF ( group dungeons)? Only holy. ZvZs? Some random rampant here and there, but once again mostly holy.

      I'm baffled that a druidic type class can't compete with heals and be viable at the same time. Just a couple of thoughts off my head.

      1) Remove the mobs aggroing healers in dungeons mechanic. That way nature healers could pre-HoT the tank and somewhat mitigate the damage.
      2) Add some scaling effect to nature staff Q. Sure, forth Q restores your mana, but what's the use in that when you are stuck there and hoping your tank/team survives. Something like every Q applied on a target after first 3 willl cost 10% more mana but increase the heals by 20% or something like that.
      3) Make Q heal by 2-3-4X times as much on a single target. Every additional person with HoTs on them reduce the overall healing by 10-20-30-40-50% up to some cap. That way you can still heal the tank of the dungeon in a somewhat "burst"ish manner and be viable for small scale pvp like 2v2 hg.
      Just some random late night thoughts. But the fact remains that nature staves went out of buisiness. Most people nowadays see them as hellgate rats with great nature staff, instead of a proud druid.

    • I dont think they should buff nature, I think they should nerf holy. IMO holy should be REALLY mana intensive, the fact that you can keep getting people from 1% to full in 3 seconds non stop without ever running out of mana is the big problem for small scale... the DPS can overextend because it takes 3 seconds to take him back to full.

      Holy should add a debuff when they heal someone that increases the mana of the next heal by X%, and it stacks as you heal nonstop.

      With this holy would still be good healing groups, as you split your shit around, but you cant just stand and heal forever in 2v2s without running out of mana.

      I really think that mana needs a complete rebalance because Lymhurst Capes were introduced

      Also its super fucked up that Nature has to give up on the bulk of its healing to DPS like a noodle, meanwhile holy can go scholar + smite full turret on people without giving up on pretty much any heal.

      There are no tradeoffs when you play Holy... all Es are good except 1 handed holy, maybe?

      The Qs are pretty straighforward, small fast heal, big slow heal.

      W are amazing buffs, crazy AoE heals, and a fucking great DPS skill.

      Meanwhile for nature you have slow ass HoT for one Q and a joke on the second Q.

      For the W you have Revitalize which was semi decent and got nerfed big time, the rest are all average at best.

      The Es are all mid tier.

      Anyway, Nature is a lot more fun to play and its not bad if you thing about in general, but holy is just better at everything.

      Anyway, tweak Nature, make it more fun, but dont make it stronger... make Holy weaker, otherwise the healers will be too strong.

    • I agree nature atm can't decently heal any kind of group content, not to mention the fact that it takes 10 times more brain power to use to half the effectiveness of holy. If the Q is so god damn useless why not just remove it from the game, buffing it will obviously make it op, it's just a badly designed skill.

      I mean why does druid staff have to take graveyard helmet to aid it's healing capability when holy doesn't? Shouldn't the weapon itself provide enough heals to actually do its job?

    • the problem with holy is that it is suppose to be mana hungry as its weakness. and supposely sacrifice a head slot or body slot to sustain their mana.
      but with so much mana gaining choices in the game and the inherited synergy that the class has with its self holy is just the better choice for group play.

      lets see here under a decent team holy has 10% inc heal per cast stacks up to 3 then it becomes a huge AoE heal. and with agressive caster you can spam Q if your mana allows it.

      nature has a HoT Q that for some reason great curse staff does not remove. and the HoT is not as strong as a single target holy focus but heals more than 1 holy Q over 7 seconds but when spamming the nature Q it just caps out at 3 which is 45 heal per sec at its base while holy has 90+ per q cast as its base

      if you use rejuvenating breeze then your HoT becomes AoE and your team would be pesudo tanks for 7 seconds but logicaly speaking 9/10 times asking your team to bunch up so you can cast 3 Q on someone then use W to aoe heal is a good sign for the enermy to just lock everyone with AoE damage skills

      that combined with the fact that most of nature's e ablity is all close range makes it lacking in the healing department because your team wants to dive their healers too

      but in solo play that all changes with thorns the only damage ablity of nature. nature has the ablity to do damage should anyone wants to walk up to them and try kill them in a 1v1 situation. while healers could 1v1 by out healing and weave an auto once or twice to slowly kill their opponent.

      the same will apply for solo PvE situations nature can solo any content given enough time while holy would take far longer.

      This makes nature a nightmare to balance because if healing is too strong then anyone who have HoTs of nature will be unkillable for 7 seconds and 7 seconds is enough to apply 3 stacks to 2 more person making 3 people unkillable. for this reason the heal on hots of a 3 stack is half of a holy heal Q

      and if damage is buffed then nature will be too multi role as it can already solo any content given enough time

      think of holy as burst heal where someone can can be 1% to 100 under 3 sec and nature as a hp regen Buffer like arcane
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      if you use rejuvenating breeze then your HoT becomes AoE and your team would be pesudo tanks for 7 seconds
      If you use rejuvenatig breeze you triggered sickness in your whole group for 7 seconds and now everyone is fucked, because with sickness your stupid useless Q will heal for 50/second.

      The problem is:

      1. Nature triggers sickness too easily and is WAY more affected by it because it doesnt have big heals.
      2. Nature depends on constant slow healing, so lets say that a nature takes 15 seconds to top someone... with sickness that becomes 20 seconds. Holy has big heals, it takes like 3 seconds to top someone, with sickness it becomes 4-5 seconds.
      3. The drawback of holy was supposed to be mana, but it just isnt a problem. Also Lifetouch's E is so good that you can give up on every single slot defensive and go full mana on your gear, you dont need defensives when you have such a strong E.


      Take great nature for example: The E is easy to avoid, even if you dont have any purges, just dont hit the guy. The W is easy to break, 2 autos and its garbage already. The Q is a super slow heal, you can easily outdps it.
      Take holy, you cant even outdps Q spamming, the W and E are just the cherry on top that makes it even better. The Q alone from a Holy Staff is better than the 3 skills from any nature staff if you look only at healing output.

      Also what happens is holy goes DPS? He still has an amazing reliable heal on his Q, he has amazing heal and purge on his E and Smite hits like a truck.

      Anyway, Nature and Holy are not even a competition, they are in completely different leagues... Nature is close to Arcane in uselessness, it's just a way to fuck your whole zerg by proccing sickness in everyone. Sickness should be amount healed not number of people healing.

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      conclusion

      nature better at solo PvE and PVP than holy and that is that
      and holy is better than nature at everything else

      i rarely hear a solo holy healer win a 1v1 in blackzone dungeon

      agree?
      wrong, only great nature is good at 1v1, and only if no purge or vs non mobile classes with little burst. Dagger will easily kill nature if timed right. Most great nature builds can't chase, so with demon boots meta and mobile weapons meta like carving or dagger nature is a sitting duck.

      Great nature already has low damage low mobility and low party healing capability, being good at 1v1 against noobs doesn't redeem it. And with next nerf to w it will cripple it even more.

      Other natures are worst at everything else compared to holy. You don't hear of holy winning 1v1 in bz but you won't hear of nature winning 1v1 either if the enemy runs away. Nature only wins if enemy doesn't run.

    • the q stacks upon refresh could also give around 50% of the remaining HoT all at once instead of mana back to the healer.

      this would give nature a little bit more burst healing that it sorely needs to compete.

      natures just not good, even at high spec it struggles to heal aoe pressure, and thats supposed to be its strong point.

      i remember flash heal for holy returning mana, now it doublecasts as an aoe on the 4th consecutive cast on a player.

      you can get like ~0.25 cast time on flash heal too, its pretty crazy and likely in line for a nerf.
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    • Dismadeus wrote:

      the q stacks upon refresh could also give around 50% of the remaining HoT all at once instead of mana back to the healer.

      this would give nature a little bit more burst healing that it sorely needs to compete.

      natures just not good, even at high spec it struggles to heal aoe pressure, and thats supposed to be its strong point.

      i remember flash heal for holy returning mana, now it doublecasts as an aoe on the 4th consecutive cast on a player.

      you can get like ~0.25 cast time on flash heal too, its pretty crazy and likely in line for a nerf.
      The heal on the Q is so bad that I honestly dont know why they just dont let me keep it a 3 stacks forever.

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      conclusion

      nature better at solo PvE and PVP than holy and that is that
      and holy is better than nature at everything else

      i rarely hear a solo holy healer win a 1v1 in blackzone dungeon

      agree?
      Holy is WAY better... have you ever seen those guys that play holy and sit flagged next to Caerleon? Once someone hits them and enter combat they can wreck anyone, even with guards cannons firing.

      Holy is WAY better because you dont need to give up on much heal to Smite, I can solo T7 group dungeons with holy... Nature to use thorns you need to give up on all your reliable heal, the W is super easy to interrupt, the E in great nature is barely a skill, it's a joke... I can solo kill a great nature with a warbow, specially if he has thorns... you know when I can solo a holy with a warbow? Never, the guy can be semi AFK just mashing Q mindlessly.

      I play both holy and nature (I have more spec in holy) and its not even a close match, Holy is in general an S tier weapon, the only holt weapon that I would classify as A tier is the one handed... Nature is at most a B tier wepon in very niche situations (like fighting a fire staff that has no purge with a great nature) and like F tier for everything else.

      Id rather have another DPS in my team than a nature, and if its a zerg I would rather have nothing than a Nature... Nature reduces the overall heal by spreading sickness. "Thanks for that 50 heal dude, now the big boys holy will heal me a lot less with their real spells because your stupid HoT ticked on me once"

      Nature is just garbage, small HoTs just dont work where 1 tick will cause sickness, and the fact that Thorns is on the Q, removing all your reliable heals, just wreck the whole weapon tree for 1v1 PvP.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Devastate ().

    • I have never played heals myself but from an opponent perspective I immediately feel bad for the other team once I see a nature healer. It is night and day fighting against nature vs holy. The balance is so far off I would be curious to hear the devs perspective on what the hell they are doing exactly. Holy is vastly superior to nature you just do not see holys solo because they have even less mobility than nature.

    • Tabor wrote:

      I have never played heals myself but from an opponent perspective I immediately feel bad for the other team once I see a nature healer. It is night and day fighting against nature vs holy. The balance is so far off I would be curious to hear the devs perspective on what the hell they are doing exactly. Holy is vastly superior to nature you just do not see holys solo because they have even less mobility than nature.
      This is what I feel too, its like a completely different game... I'd rather heal with a 4.1 lifetouch than a t8.3 nature staff.

      The thing with holy is that you have 3 "reset" buttons.

      Your Q heals a bunch, the W are all amazing, the E are all great.

      Your team mate overextended and is low? Q, Sacred Pulse, Q, back to 100% in 3 seconds and you didnt even wasted your E.

      Now for nature: Q is a wet noodle healing, you can easily outdps someone with 3 stacks.

      W and E are all a joke... the best nature staff is probably druidic and its worse than the worse Holy, which is the 1 handed.

      If they removed completely sickness from Nature staves it would still suck, the fact that they are nerfing it even further is just mind boggling to me.

    • Hot are a pain to use and refresh for laughable result, Mushroms are a joke, and obv THORN spell and his mechanic is fucking trash, i miss my dot so bad ...
      revitalize is weak and is nerfed again (wtf lol)

      i tried holy, way more rewarding to use (and easy), i feel i can do a better job healing as a holy with trash gear and no spec than i could with nature. Balance is off for pretty long time alrdy but nature keep getting nerf... go figure ?( lol
      I don't wish holy to be nerf but i hope a strong nature buff soon, it doesn't seems to go this way :D

      Tabor wrote:

      The balance is so far off I would be curious to hear the devs perspective on what the hell they are doing exactly
      I wish they know, but this would probably be hilarious ... :D :whistling:

    • Devastate wrote:

      The_Support_God wrote:

      if you use rejuvenating breeze then your HoT becomes AoE and your team would be pesudo tanks for 7 seconds
      If you use rejuvenatig breeze you triggered sickness in your whole group for 7 seconds and now everyone is fucked, because with sickness your stupid useless Q will heal for 50/second.
      The problem is:

      1. Nature triggers sickness too easily and is WAY more affected by it because it doesnt have big heals.
      2. Nature depends on constant slow healing, so lets say that a nature takes 15 seconds to top someone... with sickness that becomes 20 seconds. Holy has big heals, it takes like 3 seconds to top someone, with sickness it becomes 4-5 seconds.
      3. The drawback of holy was supposed to be mana, but it just isnt a problem. Also Lifetouch's E is so good that you can give up on every single slot defensive and go full mana on your gear, you dont need defensives when you have such a strong E.


      Take great nature for example: The E is easy to avoid, even if you dont have any purges, just dont hit the guy. The W is easy to break, 2 autos and its garbage already. The Q is a super slow heal, you can easily outdps it.
      Take holy, you cant even outdps Q spamming, the W and E are just the cherry on top that makes it even better. The Q alone from a Holy Staff is better than the 3 skills from any nature staff if you look only at healing output.

      Also what happens is holy goes DPS? He still has an amazing reliable heal on his Q, he has amazing heal and purge on his E and Smite hits like a truck.

      Anyway, Nature and Holy are not even a competition, they are in completely different leagues... Nature is close to Arcane in uselessness, it's just a way to fuck your whole zerg by proccing sickness in everyone. Sickness should be amount healed not number of people healing.
      I have an idea maybe maje the rejuvenating breeze something new,
      like for 10 seconds players in it maintain 3 stack of healing

    • Devastate wrote:

      The_Support_God wrote:

      conclusion

      nature better at solo PvE and PVP than holy and that is that
      and holy is better than nature at everything else

      i rarely hear a solo holy healer win a 1v1 in blackzone dungeon

      agree?
      Holy is WAY better... have you ever seen those guys that play holy and sit flagged next to Caerleon? Once someone hits them and enter combat they can wreck anyone, even with guards cannons firing.
      Holy is WAY better because you dont need to give up on much heal to Smite, I can solo T7 group dungeons with holy... Nature to use thorns you need to give up on all your reliable heal, the W is super easy to interrupt, the E in great nature is barely a skill, it's a joke... I can solo kill a great nature with a warbow, specially if he has thorns... you know when I can solo a holy with a warbow? Never, the guy can be semi AFK just mashing Q mindlessly.

      I play both holy and nature (I have more spec in holy) and its not even a close match, Holy is in general an S tier weapon, the only holt weapon that I would classify as A tier is the one handed... Nature is at most a B tier wepon in very niche situations (like fighting a fire staff that has no purge with a great nature) and like F tier for everything else.

      Id rather have another DPS in my team than a nature, and if its a zerg I would rather have nothing than a Nature... Nature reduces the overall heal by spreading sickness. "Thanks for that 50 heal dude, now the big boys holy will heal me a lot less with their real spells because your stupid HoT ticked on me once"

      Nature is just garbage, small HoTs just dont work where 1 tick will cause sickness, and the fact that Thorns is on the Q, removing all your reliable heals, just wreck the whole weapon tree for 1v1 PvP.
      Maybe I should switch. I have been leveling my Nature and am having a blast. Both doing solo dungeons which is super easy and in Arena killing people on points. I will try Holy .....Life Touch suggested? with what gear setup?