Smart Cluster Queue

    • Smart Cluster Queue

      Hello everyone,

      we will make some changes to the cluster queue, to prevent strategies that gave a big advantage by playing around the system. That strategy was based on zoning in via the queue and then immediately leaving the zone again, to get enemy players zoned out and then prevent them from re-queuing again by camping all entrances.


      Changes:
      • Players who are removed from a zone via the cluster queue will receive a special Queue Removal Protection: As long as they stay close to the entrance and do not perform any actions, they will stay invisible and invulnerable, but they are also silenced and can’t attack other players for up to 150 seconds. This will allow them to stay in the queue to re-enter the zone for at least 1 queue cycle.
      • If a player moves away from the entrance, or after the 150 seconds ended, the Queue Removal Protection will be canceled, and the player will instead get a normal zone change bubble and will stay silenced for an additional 3s.
      • Players who queue into an overcrowded zone and then immediately leave that zone again through an exit within 60 seconds will receive an Early Retreat ebuff. This debuff prevents them from re-queuing for the same zone for 10 minutes. This Early Retreat Debuff is only applied to players who joined by the queue process into the zone, not to players who just regularly walked into it!
      • The length of the cluster queue cycle time (the time it takes for the cluster queue to let in or remove additional players) has been increased from 90 seconds to 120 seconds


      The above changes are designed to counteract a strategy used by large groups who managed to gain control by repeatedly join via the queue and immediately leave again. The strategy was based on getting enemies removed by the queue and then attacking the enemy players who get zoned out. The zoned-out players then often died and could not re-queue for the zone, which meant that the next time the cluster queue updated, additional players from the defender group would get removed. This cycle could then be repeated until the enemy force was significantly weakened.

      The changes above are intended to prevent the attacker from using this strategy, while giving the defender far better counter-play options.

      First of all, if the attacker zones in and immediately leaves again, they won’t be able to queue up for the same zone again for 10 minutes. This makes the strategy much weaker, because not only will it be much slower, but the attacker also loses the weighting of these players for a few cycles, which means these slots are now freed up again for the defender.


      Secondly, the defending players that got ported out will be able to stay in the queue for at least one full queue cycle. even if an entrance is completely camped by the enemy. This means that if the attackers leave the zone again, the defenders will be able to join the zone again - returning the overall situation back to the initial status quo - with the key difference that the attackers now cannot re-queue for the same zone.

      We plan to release these changes with Queen Patch 14. We will then observe if the changes have the desired impact and might iterate on the Cluster Queue in future patches.

      Cheers,
      Retro

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Retroman ().

    • I have a gut feeling the defenders will be zoned out then they will be unable to zone in for 10 minutes :roll_eyes: and the change will ultimately aid the attackers.

      Just get rid of cluster queue...
      Im więcej ludzi na ZvZ tym Surfy i Poe będą mniej hajsu chcieli za nie wyjebanie waszej ziemianki. Wojna Polsko Polska AO. Wesołe Ziemniaczki.
    • This seems like a bad change that creates more issues than it solves to be honest,


      When you try queue into a fight that is CQ, you might only get 30 in the first rotation and you need to zone out for a number of reasons, shotcallers not in, not a good comp, not enough people. This makes the defensive position so much more valuable and on the invis when queued out, if you were queued out the chances of you getting straight back in next rotation is pretty slim.
    • What about applying and following TOS to the people who abused the system that force you(the dev team) to make a patch to prevent that exploit. This is by the TOS a perfect fits for the article 15.5.4
      Please to not swept this shit under the rug. Y'all are setting a precedent that it's ok to bug abuse, bug exploit and literally cheat your way to victory without any consequences.
      Lots of us love the game, but lots of us don't like seeing people cheat their way to victory either.
      Y'all took action against in game and out game gambling but still nothing about literally breaking a rule that has been forever in the TOS.

      15.5.4 Compelling reasons include for example (without limitation):
      • If the User is engaged in cheating, use of bots, financial fraud or severe abuse of bugs. The User is hereby advised that Sandbox Interactive will, without prior warning, immediately suspend all access of the User to the Game in these circumstances to protect the integrity and reputation of the Game.
      that is a direct copy from albiononline.com/en/terms_and_conditions
      I can't create an hyperlink linking straight up to that rule, i might be too tired to do it properly anyway.
      Hope seeing some of y'all ig!
    • welp, the dev talk they just did disagree with your statement. @Valkyrior.
      Using an exploit is a form of either cheating or abusing a bug. An if it's not intended, it is a bug. Sadly it is how that works.
      The community shouldn't let that shit slip since this would be the 2nd time a mjor bug abuse would have led to unfair advantages without any consequences to people abusing them (remember tower dropping to prevent attacks on territory?).

      They made any form of gambling ban-able, but hey, if the top 50-100 guilds bug abuse the shit out of the game to gain a season ranking they wouldn't have attained or attained as easily with less silver losses due to less gear losses because they won fights in a way that isn't competitive.
      That is so much for the game integrity. How does new comers should see this situation?
    • oh i fully agree it was not intended and should be punishable for the health of the game. But let's not just blame the players.. the developers obviously did a terrible job and rushed it in

      We moved from instanced 5v5 that a teams and their alts were dominating to handholding alliances and megazergs that combine their forces....

      Why not go for the middle ground?
      Instanced 25v25 for outter zones with progressive ip cap
      50v50 for inner zones with progressive ip cap
      And 100v100 for the best zones with no cap?

      That would solve all major issues
    • Valkyrior wrote:

      oh i fully agree it was not intended and should be punishable for the health of the game. But let's not just blame the players.. the developers obviously did a terrible job and rushed it in

      We moved from instanced 5v5 that a teams and their alts were dominating to handholding alliances and megazergs that combine their forces....

      Why not go for the middle ground?
      Instanced 25v25 for outter zones with progressive ip cap
      50v50 for inner zones with progressive ip cap
      And 100v100 for the best zones with no cap?

      That would solve all major iissue
      All know that except people doing decision..
    • Valkyrior wrote:

      oh i fully agree it was not intended and should be punishable for the health of the game. But let's not just blame the players.. the developers obviously did a terrible job and rushed it in

      We moved from instanced 5v5 that a teams and their alts were dominating to handholding alliances and megazergs that combine their forces....

      Why not go for the middle ground?
      Instanced 25v25 for outter zones with progressive ip cap
      50v50 for inner zones with progressive ip cap
      And 100v100 for the best zones with no cap?

      That would solve all major issues
      The thing is it's not the first time they do some some shit like this and let people literally abuse the shit out of it even after it's mention it is a bug (which is against TOS which every player agreed to) to gain a real advantage that as a heavy gain in silver value. So does that means the TOS only apply to certain people and not the mega that dominate the game? That's my issue with this, specially when it's the second time something that gives has big an advantage happens regarding controlling territories which are directly linked to season point gains which affects the ranking.

      Like I said, now's the time to show that in addition to applying the patch and stated that it is an exploit. Take action against the abuser and user of it like TOS says they should.
    • This doesn't solve the issue that being zoned out of a battle mid fight is. not. fun. Nobody wants to invest time preparing and then mental energy in strategizing, character placement, hours grinding up skills, etc, to potentially be removed from every ZvZ battle they ever participate in. This is bad game design. The cherry on top of this bad design is that not only are you removed from the fun, but you are then expected to sit there doing nothing outside the gate for up to several minutes while your team is left to haphazardly fend for themselves after your battle strategy has been disordered into chaos, which is the actual opposite of fun. This whole system makes people less invested in each fight, and in turn less invested in the game. Cluster queue is not the answer.
    • Fondren wrote:

      This doesn't solve the issue that being zoned out of a battle mid fight is. not. fun. Nobody wants to invest time preparing and then mental energy in strategizing, character placement, hours grinding up skills, etc, to potentially be removed from every ZvZ battle they ever participate in. This is bad game design. The cherry on top of this bad design is that not only are you removed from the fun, but you are then expected to sit there doing nothing outside the gate for up to several minutes while your team is left to haphazardly fend for themselves after your battle strategy has been disordered into chaos, which is the actual opposite of fun. This whole system makes people less invested in each fight, and in turn less invested in the game. Cluster queue is not the answer.
      The issue that is even worse is that some guilds/alliance actually have the whole strat of just zooning out the opponents which means that they are abusing it to gain that unfair advantage. If not all players from those to have a sanction(make no sense to penalize hundreds/thousands of players just because they did what their zerg leader/guild master told them to do.
      Thought, that means, those responsible for those players abusing it in that fashion in this way, should maybe get TOS applied on them especially if they still used this strat after the dev talk update and this thread being up. That just shows disrespect and disregard of the TOS on purpose.
      So the ball is in SBI's court if they want to set another precedent of the integrity of the game being bluntly tarnished by the top guilds in the leader boards. (referring to tower drop abuse to dodge attacks).
      SBI can't be hold accountable to a point for this type of issues making it into the game since a game this big, could be made by a studio of 100-150 employed for the workforce with a team of 10-20 just for testing . They actually are under 50-60 employees as far as i know Which makes it really incredible to see what they have achieved.
      I hope they keep bringing up amazing content and that they don't burn themselves out with crunch time! They have lots of room to improve and grow even though they are already doing a really good job.
    • Deathskills wrote:

      Fondren wrote:

      This doesn't solve the issue that being zoned out of a battle mid fight is. not. fun. Nobody wants to invest time preparing and then mental energy in strategizing, character placement, hours grinding up skills, etc, to potentially be removed from every ZvZ battle they ever participate in. This is bad game design. The cherry on top of this bad design is that not only are you removed from the fun, but you are then expected to sit there doing nothing outside the gate for up to several minutes while your team is left to haphazardly fend for themselves after your battle strategy has been disordered into chaos, which is the actual opposite of fun. This whole system makes people less invested in each fight, and in turn less invested in the game. Cluster queue is not the answer.
      The issue that is even worse is that some guilds/alliance actually have the whole strat of just zooning out the opponents which means that they are abusing it to gain that unfair advantage. If not all players from those to have a sanction(make no sense to penalize hundreds/thousands of players just because they did what their zerg leader/guild master told them to do.Thought, that means, those responsible for those players abusing it in that fashion in this way, should maybe get TOS applied on them especially if they still used this strat after the dev talk update and this thread being up. That just shows disrespect and disregard of the TOS on purpose.
      So the ball is in SBI's court if they want to set another precedent of the integrity of the game being bluntly tarnished by the top guilds in the leader boards. (referring to tower drop abuse to dodge attacks).
      SBI can't be hold accountable to a point for this type of issues making it into the game since a game this big, could be made by a studio of 100-150 employed for the workforce with a team of 10-20 just for testing . They actually are under 50-60 employees as far as i know Which makes it really incredible to see what they have achieved.
      I hope they keep bringing up amazing content and that they don't burn themselves out with crunch time! They have lots of room to improve and grow even though they are already doing a really good job.
      Yeah, I agree they are doing an amazing job. I guess the reason I'm so critical here is because I actually care about the long health and direction of this game. Sorry if my remarks seem harsh, but serious props to SBI for a great, groundbreaking game. The ZvZ issues are tough to get perfect because no other game has really done something like this before in a world like Albion's. I think this fix is definitely an improvement for the current issues we see with the smart cluster queue system, but I think over time we'll see a more polished, immersive ZvZ experience from SBI
    • Fondren wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Fondren wrote:

      This doesn't solve the issue that being zoned out of a battle mid fight is. not. fun. Nobody wants to invest time preparing and then mental energy in strategizing, character placement, hours grinding up skills, etc, to potentially be removed from every ZvZ battle they ever participate in. This is bad game design. The cherry on top of this bad design is that not only are you removed from the fun, but you are then expected to sit there doing nothing outside the gate for up to several minutes while your team is left to haphazardly fend for themselves after your battle strategy has been disordered into chaos, which is the actual opposite of fun. This whole system makes people less invested in each fight, and in turn less invested in the game. Cluster queue is not the answer.
      The issue that is even worse is that some guilds/alliance actually have the whole strat of just zooning out the opponents which means that they are abusing it to gain that unfair advantage. If not all players from those to have a sanction(make no sense to penalize hundreds/thousands of players just because they did what their zerg leader/guild master told them to do.Thought, that means, those responsible for those players abusing it in that fashion in this way, should maybe get TOS applied on them especially if they still used this strat after the dev talk update and this thread being up. That just shows disrespect and disregard of the TOS on purpose.So the ball is in SBI's court if they want to set another precedent of the integrity of the game being bluntly tarnished by the top guilds in the leader boards. (referring to tower drop abuse to dodge attacks).
      SBI can't be hold accountable to a point for this type of issues making it into the game since a game this big, could be made by a studio of 100-150 employed for the workforce with a team of 10-20 just for testing . They actually are under 50-60 employees as far as i know Which makes it really incredible to see what they have achieved.
      I hope they keep bringing up amazing content and that they don't burn themselves out with crunch time! They have lots of room to improve and grow even though they are already doing a really good job.
      Yeah, I agree they are doing an amazing job. I guess the reason I'm so critical here is because I actually care about the long health and direction of this game. Sorry if my remarks seem harsh, but serious props to SBI for a great, groundbreaking game. The ZvZ issues are tough to get perfect because no other game has really done something like this before in a world like Albion's. I think this fix is definitely an improvement for the current issues we see with the smart cluster queue system, but I think over time we'll see a more polished, immersive ZvZ experience from SBI
      I fully agree with you, but don't you get a little fed up that some of the big names in the game might be purposely breaking TOS just to win a season or get a bit more silver (bit=hundreds to billions of silver). Shouldn't the rule applies to everyone? We literally had any form of gambling removed from the game, even the one that was close to harmless (in a way) when it was using ig mechanics (trash4cash for example which was betting on whether an equipment would break or not after oc).
      Like middle ground needs to be found. But can't go completely unpunished for that. Doing this, is literally saying that cheating your way to victory or bug abusing to achieving it is ok in this game. I just don't like that. Doesn't feel right that some players, because they were part of the community or ppaid more gets a free pass from openly breaking rules and not having anything.
      And on the other side, i know some of the players that fits the description i made are victims of getting free passes even if they don't and lots of them gets shit on for "RMT" even though they never did that shit cause it's dumb to do just to get banned right away since SBI made really clear their stance on this (which i love that decision btw).

      And SBi is still learning how everything needs to be balanced. they are learning with us and they've been amazing so far since they got more rights then wrongs which is all we could hope for.
    • I think it's just sad that some people can't play this game without outnumbering their enemies by 2 to 1, 3 to 1 or even worse. Bringing 300+ players to fight less than 100. When the zone cap is only 350 people. Disarray, smart cluster queue and friendly fire have really done nothing to prevent just stuffing zones with zombies to win objectives.

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    • Grimhawke-EB wrote:

      I think it's just sad that some people can't play this game without outnumbering their enemies by 2 to 1, 3 to 1 or even worse. Bringing 300+ players to fight less than 100. When the zone cap is only 350 people. Disarray, smart cluster queue and friendly fire have really done nothing to prevent just stuffing zones with zombies to win objectives.


      I mean we always had outnumbered fight happen in the past, but you couldn't force a group of 150vs150 on a map to almost instantly become 50vs250 which is now the case due to the current exploit.
      But yeah, handholding has been an issue and the funniest thing is now those guilds/alliances that parted ways, they fine their members if they attack some whose name is red that is part of "their" alliance since they created multiple to dodge disarray and abuse the SCQ exploit. But hey, pretty sure like 3 seasons ago at most, the sentence Red is Dead was king. Now it doesn't matter cause they are all just playing to win and even basically cheating to get every single inch in front of others if they can.