Dungeon Scouting

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    • PLEASE do something about scouts. Make them at the very least to have gear, some base IP to enter the dungoen or get near an static dungeon, frelling tired to search for dives for hours and only finding pussies that press A whenever their naked scout is killed. We've considered not diving anymore but ganking and only one killing the scout and wait for the people to leave the dungeon but the goddamn hideouts are near and they reach it with the frelling bubble. We want to PVP besides zvz and gvgs goddammit
      Shikady - La Supremacia

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Twissa ().

    • Why do Divers want it even easier? Is diving not easy enough? Like you just need PVP and attack some dungeon grinders that have most times PVE gear on and sometimes are in the middle of a fight against some mobs, making them even easier to kill.

      Is that not easy enough? Are you so bad at the game? Or are you so unlucky and dive people with anti-dive gear?

      Scouts are not a problem because:
      - You can make yourself invisible and enter the dungeon (If the scout is outside and you keep some distance)
      - You stand outside the dungeon and follow them. (If you know they went in a dungeon)
      - You can split so you have a team that get in the dungeons and looks for players and a team that hunts the players as soon they get out.

      So where's the problem?
      T8 Greataxe Main
      T6 Mace Tank
    • You pro scout people are hilarious. You say you need scouts because divers bring 10 people and then suggest divers bring more people so they can somehow lock down all paths of travel after the A out. This becomes ganking not diving. Most divers actually want a small group fight (excluding Arch of course). Divers dive dungeons because that is the most accessible content in game for small scale fights. 5 man HGs are great but not always available for non zerg alliance groups. "Safe" fame already exists in several forms between YZ and HCE making safe faming in BZ is not very fitting in Albions core design.

      But hell I think most divers would also be just fine with other changes as long as it led to fights. Go ahead and add alerts to dungeons that people have entered. Even possibility add some sort of dynamic group ratio. For example if a 2 person group enters a SRD at most another 2 people could enter. If a 6 person group enters a group dungeon than at most 6 additional people could enter thus making the fights numerically even. Possibly add blob mechanics to dungeons where blobs appear in SRD of any size 2 or more and GRD 6 or more.

      Many things they could do in place of this current scout/A out cancer.
    • LoganSilkCheeks wrote:

      Dismadeus wrote:

      your right, it is hard to blame pve players for wanting low risk pve when being able to n+1 ganking provides such low risk pvp.
      hopefully the devs address this, i think its a big enough issue to warrant change as n+1 ganking/scouting gets brought up so often as major complaints
      meh just vets being sad that new players are allowed to play the game instead of just being card swipers that hand them out silver even though they sit on 400+m
      pve is not really a big part of "playing the game" when compared to say, PVP.

      i was a new player once, i got fame just fine, got silver just fine, pvped just fine.

      i am also solo/small gang, these days i never am in a grp larger than 3 people.

      maybe new players need to understand this isnt a themepark mmo?

      again how did i, as a new player, get all my fame and money? i guess i just wasnt an idiot and expected to have to deal with pvp in a full loot pvp based game, big thonk......

      and then i ask you, if i can do it without having my hand held or abusing scouts, whats your excuse? why cant you be self sufficient in a sandbox game? gankers arent your issue, you are.
      generic signature
    • Olafxder wrote:

      Why do Divers want it even easier? Is diving not easy enough? Like you just need PVP and attack some dungeon grinders that have most times PVE gear on and sometimes are in the middle of a fight against some mobs, making them even easier to kill.

      Is that not easy enough? Are you so bad at the game? Or are you so unlucky and dive people with anti-dive gear?

      Scouts are not a problem because:
      - You can make yourself invisible and enter the dungeon (If the scout is outside and you keep some distance)
      - You stand outside the dungeon and follow them. (If you know they went in a dungeon)
      - You can split so you have a team that get in the dungeons and looks for players and a team that hunts the players as soon they get out.

      So where's the problem?
      in my case, i want grps of 5+ to stop teleporting out when the scout sees my 3 dudes, fight, dont be a coward.

      i also want to see a mechanic in place that protects the PVE players from being ganked unfairly, be it by 50 guys diving, or getting caught mid pull.

      If PVE players know the diving group is coming, but cant A out and run away, they have the choice to fight, or try and escape through adds/diviers.

      because of this pve players will also have to consider different builds in order to be able to counter gank, instead of just the pve meta thats been the same forever now.

      i honestly fall asleep fame farming srds or 3 manning grp dungeons , its so fucking boring... this would make it more exciting for me instead of having 10 guys wash over me when im trying to kill a boss.

      if you cant handle having full loot pvp, dont play albion.... i lose a lot of money to divers and thats okay, they lose a lot of money to me killing them too.
      generic signature
    • Olafxder wrote:

      Why do Divers want it even easier? Is diving not easy enough? Like you just need PVP and attack some dungeon grinders that have most times PVE gear on and sometimes are in the middle of a fight against some mobs, making them even easier to kill.

      Is that not easy enough? Are you so bad at the game? Or are you so unlucky and dive people with anti-dive gear?

      Scouts are not a problem because:
      - You can make yourself invisible and enter the dungeon (If the scout is outside and you keep some distance)
      - You stand outside the dungeon and follow them. (If you know they went in a dungeon)
      - You can split so you have a team that get in the dungeons and looks for players and a team that hunts the players as soon they get out.

      So where's the problem?
      First: I love being dived when I'm making fame, it's exiting and great content...counter diving is fun and rewarding..why do you want to make fame with 0 risk? Diving is only easy if people making the dungeon panic...I used to get some great fights with guilds like war gods and others and it was always entertaning and difficult
      Second: I cannot make me invisible because the scout is inside the dungeon...I used to be able to turn myself invisible exploting an unintended mechanic of specter boots but that was fixed.
      Yeah yeah...first of all that's not diving...that is ganking. And it's pointless because people have hideouts near and can reach them with the protection bubble.

      STOP wanting everything easy and learn how to fight and how to counter dive...or use an xp leaching tank that is in the back so you can have time to reset the pull.
      Without scouts people like you wouldn't even go to t7, t8 maps...frelling pussies. Stay flagless on yellow zone, pussy.
      Shikady - La Supremacia
    • OH oh oh, finally my time to Reply. Took hours to read it all.

      See guys, I know you guys are not up for a pvp content, you guys want an easy loot, its ok, we get it. Just don't complain about the scout.

      The other guy up there said he wants small scale pvp and not ganking and not gvg and no zvz and not hg. Whatafuck? What else you don't want? Arena and Crystal League no aswell?

      Guys, man up and say that u want free gear, just don't use "I wanna pvp but scouts keep me from playing the game so they need to be banned". Bullshit. BULLSHIT.

      And another thing that i'm pissed is this excuse. "If you wanna stay safer just go to blue and yellows". Ok, give me T7-8 Blues and Yellows and I would GLADLY go if I don't have a proper gear or team for pvp content.
      The game forces us to go to red and blacks so we have an OK reward as gatherer and as dungeon runners. And the reward isn't even actually good, is just ok. Usually we have to do at least 4 to 6 dungeons to pay for a T.1 set (so 4x to 6x T5 dungeons to pay for a T5.1 set, 4x to 6x T7 dungeons to pay for a T7.1 set, etc.). We have to dodge or fight gankers in the way, we have to have information of the dungeon and people around it, doing the dungeon we have LOTS of chances of being dove by an unfair amount of people inside the dungeon. And like, we should just accept that u guys want our gear so we shouldn't use scouts? I don't quite follow.
      Like, try to follow me with that little brain you have:

      A normal group dungeon party has 4 to 6 players.
      A diving party runs from 2 to 9.
      1 point to the diver.

      The dungeon party is using pve gear.
      The diving party runs pvp gear.
      1 point to the diver.

      The diving party has information and the surprise factor.
      1 point to the diver.

      As diving party has low risk, they usually use better gear.
      1 point to the diver.

      What is the ups from being in the dungeon run party again? None.
      "Have a spare gear in ur invertory!" Can't change midway of a dive.
      And even if we could, the suggestion is to have another gear every.single.time to TRY to fight back? Guys, if a normal run gear costs about 4 to 6 "runs" to pay itself, having an extra pvp gear would cost you 8 to 12 "runs".
      How much time are we spending for this? How much money are we spending for this? And divers who are wasting zero effort and just a little bit of time searching for a party without a scout are bitching out here non stop? Please, is just sad to have people like you around.


      Fix this thorn way of living that is yours, otherwise everyone should use scouts into blackzones to keep you guys as far away as possible.
    • hFly wrote:

      OH oh oh, finally my time to Reply. Took hours to read it all.

      See guys, I know you guys are not up for a pvp content, you guys want an easy loot, its ok, we get it. Just don't complain about the scout.

      The other guy up there said he wants small scale pvp and not ganking and not gvg and no zvz and not hg. Whatafuck? What else you don't want? Arena and Crystal League no aswell?

      Guys, man up and say that u want free gear, just don't use "I wanna pvp but scouts keep me from playing the game so they need to be banned". Bullshit. BULLSHIT.

      And another thing that i'm pissed is this excuse. "If you wanna stay safer just go to blue and yellows". Ok, give me T7-8 Blues and Yellows and I would GLADLY go if I don't have a proper gear or team for pvp content.
      The game forces us to go to red and blacks so we have an OK reward as gatherer and as dungeon runners. And the reward isn't even actually good, is just ok. Usually we have to do at least 4 to 6 dungeons to pay for a T.1 set (so 4x to 6x T5 dungeons to pay for a T5.1 set, 4x to 6x T7 dungeons to pay for a T7.1 set, etc.). We have to dodge or fight gankers in the way, we have to have information of the dungeon and people around it, doing the dungeon we have LOTS of chances of being dove by an unfair amount of people inside the dungeon. And like, we should just accept that u guys want our gear so we shouldn't use scouts? I don't quite follow.
      Like, try to follow me with that little brain you have:

      A normal group dungeon party has 4 to 6 players.
      A diving party runs from 2 to 9.
      1 point to the diver.

      The dungeon party is using pve gear.
      The diving party runs pvp gear.
      1 point to the diver.

      The diving party has information and the surprise factor.
      1 point to the diver.

      As diving party has low risk, they usually use better gear.
      1 point to the diver.

      What is the ups from being in the dungeon run party again? None.
      "Have a spare gear in ur invertory!" Can't change midway of a dive.
      And even if we could, the suggestion is to have another gear every.single.time to TRY to fight back? Guys, if a normal run gear costs about 4 to 6 "runs" to pay itself, having an extra pvp gear would cost you 8 to 12 "runs".
      How much time are we spending for this? How much money are we spending for this? And divers who are wasting zero effort and just a little bit of time searching for a party without a scout are bitching out here non stop? Please, is just sad to have people like you around.


      Fix this thorn way of living that is yours, otherwise everyone should use scouts into blackzones to keep you guys as far away as possible.
      Go play minecraft and stop ruining albion.
      Shikady - La Supremacia
    • Twissa wrote:


      Go play minecraft and stop ruining albion.
      Best counterargument ever. 69/10. Pls dive me so long that i dont want to play the game anymore.

      That would be something you would want to hear. But Albion Online is not about diving and ganking only.

      If everyone would start diving and ganking. There would be only economic downfall. Because the only items that would be available are from the divers and gankers. And because of trashing it would become less and less each time.

      So yeh. PVE is an important part of the game.

      But if you want a full PvP game that doesn't need PvE to have a good economy. Play a regular 08/15 shooter game or so.

      Some diving/ganking can be ok. But not 24/7 diving/ganking. This is not Rust or [Insert PVP game].


      And all people saying getting dived makes fun are mostly people that are in a huge group just to counter dive or divers that want people to encourage people so they can dive them.

      Have fun getting dived everytime and die or have to get a big group just to counter dive.

      This shit aint funny.
      T8 Greataxe Main
      T6 Mace Tank
    • Olafxder wrote:

      Twissa wrote:

      Go play minecraft and stop ruining albion.
      Best counterargument ever. 69/10. Pls dive me so long that i dont want to play the game anymore.
      That would be something you would want to hear. But Albion Online is not about diving and ganking only.

      If everyone would start diving and ganking. There would be only economic downfall. Because the only items that would be available are from the divers and gankers. And because of trashing it would become less and less each time.

      So yeh. PVE is an important part of the game.

      But if you want a full PvP game that doesn't need PvE to have a good economy. Play a regular 08/15 shooter game or so.

      Some diving/ganking can be ok. But not 24/7 diving/ganking. This is not Rust or [Insert PVP game].


      And all people saying getting dived makes fun are mostly people that are in a huge group just to counter dive or divers that want people to encourage people so they can dive them.

      Have fun getting dived everytime and die or have to get a big group just to counter dive.

      This shit aint funny.
      LEL, If we are 7 in a t8 dungeon is kinda meh for fame...get good at the game and stop being a puss*.
      MY GUILD makes fame at t7 and t8 only, 4-5 people for t7 5-7 for t8, Hell, we even make avalonian dungeons with 5, 6 people...max ten if we dont want to left anybody behind...but we don't like being more than 6. if people come and dive us we welcome them and fight, we win some, we lose some, we have fun. Stop defending this shit, get good at the game, dont build like shit and stop abusing scouts

      I'm a PVPer and a PVEr, and a gatherer and I pick shit up from my island...I gave work to my labourers and I craft shit. I work on the black market, I gank, I dive, I fool around on citys, I play arenas, cgvg...the only thing I dont like are zvz because my pc is shit...people like you are ruining one of the most fun things on albion and you're defending what cannot be defended.

      ARCH IS RECLUTING, go and play with 13k players on the same map feeling safe and without worries.

      Also IDK what the fuck am I doing talking with a great axe user, lol... great weapon for PVE and PVP lol. Dont bother responding imma ignore you, you dont deserve my time.
      Shikady - La Supremacia
    • Everyone who's defense diving, didn't even read topic.
      Its a good content, we all agree.
      Small scale pvp is fun, we also agree.

      But players use scouts not because they dont wanna fight 4-6 vs 4-6.
      They just dont wanna die 5 vs 10+

      All you says about "fun to get dived", have nothing similar with 5 vs 10+.

      5 pvers vs 10+ pvp is fun fight? -No
      5 pvers vs 10+ pvp sometimes win and sometimes lose? -No
      5 pvers vs 10+ pvp is good content for both side? -No
      5 pvers vs 10+ pvp have same risk/reward? -No
      5 pvers vs 10+ pvp so 5 players is pussy if they fame farm and dont wanna get zergerd by 10+? -No

      I tell you more, 5+ gankers will run like pussy if see just 1 dismounted guy who ready to fight em, they mount up and leave they friend, who can not mount up and dieing.
      So gankers/divers run like chickens in 5+ vs 1 ready to fight guy - and they are cool?
      But PvEr who dont wanna fight 5 vs 10+ divers - are pussyes? May be it works like that, on a flat earth. But in real world, we know who is real pussy here.
    • I think scouting is fine. But scouting as naked or scouting at 2nd monitor is our real problem. I would add randomly spawned mobs behind the group, to make scouting more active and little bit more risky for pve group and scout itself.

      During my diving i died once, when we had 9-10 ppl vs. dungeon full of ARCHs. The best fights i had as diver, was versus other diving group.
      Few months ago diving was too easy, now it's almost impossible.
    • iRawr wrote:

      Everyone who's defense diving, didn't even read topic.
      Its a good content, we all agree.
      Small scale pvp is fun, we also agree.

      But players use scouts not because they dont wanna fight 4-6 vs 4-6.
      They just dont wanna die 5 vs 10+

      All you says about "fun to get dived", have nothing similar with 5 vs 10+.

      5 pvers vs 10+ pvp is fun fight? -No
      5 pvers vs 10+ pvp sometimes win and sometimes lose? -No
      5 pvers vs 10+ pvp is good content for both side? -No
      5 pvers vs 10+ pvp have same risk/reward? -No
      5 pvers vs 10+ pvp so 5 players is pussy if they fame farm and dont wanna get zergerd by 10+? -No

      I tell you more, 5+ gankers will run like pussy if see just 1 dismounted guy who ready to fight em, they mount up and leave they friend, who can not mount up and dieing.
      So gankers/divers run like chickens in 5+ vs 1 ready to fight guy - and they are cool?
      But PvEr who dont wanna fight 5 vs 10+ divers - are pussyes? May be it works like that, on a flat earth. But in real world, we know who is real pussy here.
      The problem i see with them is that every single one A's out straight away, i've seen 5 flood out of a solo dungeon when only 2 of us have dived, they would have had +3 people to fight us and they ran straight away. This goes for every group with a scout, they dont use them to check if it's a fair fight, they use them so they can run and not have to risk anything, even if its probably an easy win for them.
      I dont think i would have as much as a problem if people where limited to logging in to one account per address so the scout has to be a real player, not just someone who sticks the account on a second screen and uses it as cctv, or if you cant enter dungeons or bz/rz without a minimum ip so their scouting is not free.
      But as it stands you can go do t8 blue's solo with a dagger and have your second on your other monitor and never actually have to risk anything, the second you spot someone enter on your other screen you a out and run.
    • Shroomiest wrote:

      The problem i see with them is that every single one A's out straight away, i've seen 5 flood out of a solo dungeon when only 2 of us have dived, they would have had +3 people to fight us and they ran straight away. This goes for every group with a scout, they dont use them to check if it's a fair fight, they use them so they can run and not have to risk anything, even if its probably an easy win for them.
      It's their goddamn right to run if they want to run. If you see two hostile there might be more around. You even confirm that it was the case in your example...
      So you were at least three guys looking for an easy kill of a solo player and you complain about lack of competitive attitude of your victims? LOL

      I dont think i would have as much as a problem if people where limited to logging in to one account per address so the scout has to be a real player, not just someone who sticks the account on a second screen and uses it as cctv,

      How do you want to distinguish if two people play from the same address? Do you want to ban couples playing together?


      or if you cant enter dungeons or bz/rz without a minimum ip so their scouting is not free.

      Scouting isn't free. You have to organize it, someone has to do it and can't do anything else in the meantime.

      But as it stands you can go do t8 blue's solo with a dagger and have your second on your other monitor and never actually have to risk anything, the second you spot someone enter on your other screen you a out and run.

      Nice story.
    • SBI should do something about scouts, because it fundamentally goes against the core values of this game.

      With scouts, black zone is a safe zone. That´s it basically. Even more so with hideouts. So people just have a scout, he warns others - they A out and go to hideout.

      Zero risk for group in a dungeon, and zero content for divers = no divers.

      Why would anyone bother diving when there are scouts ? There is no reason to do that, and it just kills the content in BZ / RZ.

      SBI, want more populated content in BZ ? Try to remove scouts somewhat.

      While i used to enjoy diving, it is impossible now - for scouts are everywhere. There simply is no point, and nobody is gonna spend hours to find maybe one dungeon without a scout - that´s just a waste of time and not fun.

      With the way scout works, it´s like if you saw someone in BZ, but you cant do anything to him - he is simply invincible.

      Scouts makes BZ / RZ not a high risk high reward, but rather high reward no risk - and that´s not alright
    • @Borbarad What are the core values of the game? Risk vs reward? It's strange how you only see the "no risk, high reward" presence in the game when it doesn't suit your playstyle.
      What type of risk are gate gankers exposed to when they can walk 2-3m to the gate, mount up while the shield is active and escape? They block main roads especially in red zones. They stand to gain much and lose nothing.
      What type of risk are dungeon diving parties exposed to when they enter a dungeon? None. The mobs are not attacking them, they have full hp,mana and abillities are ready. The players in the dungeon are easy kills.
      Game will survive without dungeon divers, gate gankers and player killers. But if crafters, gatherers and PvE players stop playing Albion, the game will die. So content for dungeon divers is not a pressing issue, I would even say that it is irrelevant.

      Hideouts became a thing in albion because the game was overrun with parasites. With players wanting to take stuff for free instead of working for that stuff. That's why a feature that ensures safety for the players that provide you with your content was introduced to the game. If you want features like those removed from the game, because you think they go against the core values of the game, you would have to remove a big chunk of the Albion's player base as well.
      Life is Heaven & Hell is Living