Dungeon Scouting

Loholt wrote:

Dismadeus wrote:

Loholt wrote:

Dismadeus wrote:

iRawr wrote:

Tabor wrote:

Things a group running a dungeon can do are below. This assumes a dungeon enemy alert/A out removed compromise is made.

*As Holly mentioned above leave a few mobs up at entrance lazy divers will not bother checking past the first few pulls. The enemy alert would only happen if non-party individuals enter after you enter so the divers would not be alerted someone is already inside.

*Once you are alerted as the runners you can leave a few mobs up in front of you to give your group the fight advantage against the divers.

*You can choose to try to run through mobs and kill final boss fast as that is what would spawn the exit portal (you would not get loot in this case since the chest would not open due to not clearing enough mobs).

*You should have AoE type abilities already as the running group as will the divers. Therefore the only difference is defensives. If you run some at risk comp without planning for a potential dive that is on you. Mobs are easy to clear.

The risk to the divers is the runners have a larger group (which is often the case all diving is not excessive numbers). The other risk is often it can take 30 to 40 minutes to even find a dungeon being ran. That is all lost money making opportunity elsewhere.

Only shitters ask for remove a-out.Risk of bigger group in dungeon?LolRisk of waste of time?

Ok sure, but you still like x20 reward from the reward of group in dungeon.

But the have all this risks + divers risk.

So you ask to reduce risk for divers, who got x20 reward.

And increase risk for players who need fame farm(new players), who got less reward.


Why you say something about balance?
Just say it fair, we want the free items from new players group, we want them no chance to run, we want kill secure.

Just ask SBI kill all in dungeon right when you enter, and transfer all they gear to your bank.
This is what you want, so ask about it loud and clear.

And dont shit us like "we wanna pvp", if you wanna pvp - go 5v5 hellgate.

There is alot of ppl who have pvp gear and wanna pvp, they will be happy to pvp with you.

i think being able to A out is a little too safe when combined with a scout but yes you are right, there needs to be more rewards/a better fighting chance for the pve players.If you could only leave at the start or end of a dungeon, but were alerted that a group that isnt your party came inside somehow, you would be able to prepare to fight, run past the gankers to the entrance/exit, or skip the remaining adds and leave via the exit at the end.
its the same as solo dungeons right now, usually it doesnt matter if you have one or 5 guys if you find a solo player mid pull, hes gunna die.

on the same note, 2-3 divers can kill a pve group of 5+ players with no scout in a group dungeon assuming you get them mid pull.


the system needs a change, more risk, more reward, and more options for counter play IMO is whats needed.

Ideas like this are, IMO, useless.You're just trading the A out for something that'd be basically the same thing, but take 10x as long.
If I had a scout and got dived I'd just run with my party past mobs with skip gear and use the exit. It'd take longer, the divers would also take longer because they'd also have to skip the mobs to try and get to us and, in the end, we'd all be in the exact same spot.

Here is a tip for divers: you can actually gank in the open world too. When people A out you can chase them (I know, big surprise here for you guys!) and kill them after the bubble disappears (which requires either time or distance).

But, as stated by everyone, what divers want is free lot, not PvP content, they just say PvP because they want their argument of banning scouts to sound "fair" while we all know they just want a fight they can't lose with a nice loot in the end (0 risk, high reward). We all know that if they wanted PvP they'd go Arena, GvG, HG, ZvZ or even try to gank in the open world.

So what we are actually arguing is if we should give people who want 0 risk and high reward the content they want. And I honestly have no idea why we should. I can't understand why we are actually discussing this for so long.

were arguing that there should be more risk to both divers, and dungeon runners.the system we have now does not incentivize PVP and is far too safe for both the dungeon runner and gankers.

your comment doesnt do anything, doesnt add to the discussion.

sure we can gank in the overworld, people do already with blobs of 20+ and also enjoy no risk high reward ganking, witch needs to change as well.

i also dont understand why we keep giving people (dungeon runners ) high reward and little risk. i also cant understand why this problem of scouts, no risk ganking, and n+1 literally everything that doesnt have a hard player cap .

i dont understand why people like you think they have anything valuable to contribute when clearly all you want to do is run dungeons with 0 risk and all the reward.

We beg to differ, I think I added a lot to the discussion by saying that the solution presented is not a solution and that divers doesn't have to limit themselves to INSIDE the dungeon only.
You don't have to get mad at me and start throwing stones just because your solution is poor (and that is MY opinion about it, doesn't mean it is poor to someone else).

And I speak for myself, but the best drop I've ever got in a T8 blue dg was a 8.3 excepcional bag. And I do a lot of dgs. So I don't really see the "high reward, low risk" aspect because I actually lose silver doing dgs (because of yellow fame).

Unless you mean getting fame, in which case I agree that, when using scouts, it's a high reward, low risk business.

And, Idk, I'm starting to train PvP now (GvG and HG, mostly), after I learned a little more and established myself (at least in terms of combat spec). But when I go for dgs, I DON'T WANT PvP content. Period. "But it's a PvP driven game and blah blah blah". No, it's a sandbox game. I play the way I want. I want to farm fame and not get into PvP and so I'll go do that. If scouts let me do it in a safer way, then I'll use scouts (when not aganist the ToS rules)

And if divers are so eager to have PvP content, well, as stated above, there's plenty of it. PLENTY (open world gank, diving, HG, scrims, Arena, duels, GvGs, ZvZs, ranting in forums...). Just... Jesus... stop crying so much about someone wanting to play a sandbox game without getting jumped 5 times in the same dg by 10 dudes.

deivleon wrote:

I dont think its a difficult topic, if you want to do Pve in a safe place go blue/yellow zone, dont use a spotter

Blenfjorn wrote:

This argument turned into a cry-fest with neither side willing to budge even a little. #hopeless #unfollowed

Dismadeus wrote:

Loholt wrote:

We beg to differ, I think I added a lot to the discussion by saying that the solution presented is not a solution and that divers doesn't have to limit themselves to INSIDE the dungeon only.You don't have to get mad at me and start throwing stones just because your solution is poor (and that is MY opinion about it, doesn't mean it is poor to someone else).

And I speak for myself, but the best drop I've ever got in a T8 blue dg was a 8.3 excepcional bag. And I do a lot of dgs. So I don't really see the "high reward, low risk" aspect because I actually lose silver doing dgs (because of yellow fame).

Unless you mean getting fame, in which case I agree that, when using scouts, it's a high reward, low risk business.

And, Idk, I'm starting to train PvP now (GvG and HG, mostly), after I learned a little more and established myself (at least in terms of combat spec). But when I go for dgs, I DON'T WANT PvP content. Period. "But it's a PvP driven game and blah blah blah". No, it's a sandbox game. I play the way I want. I want to farm fame and not get into PvP and so I'll go do that. If scouts let me do it in a safer way, then I'll use scouts (when not aganist the ToS rules)

And if divers are so eager to have PvP content, well, as stated above, there's plenty of it. PLENTY (open world gank, diving, HG, scrims, Arena, duels, GvGs, ZvZs, ranting in forums...). Just... Jesus... stop crying so much about someone wanting to play a sandbox game without getting jumped 5 times in the same dg by 10 dudes.

bro, pvp and pve are not mutually exclusive in this game, thats what you fail to see. (except hces! go do those if you want to be safe.. or blues or yellows. )
i want to kill you in your dungeon, this is a sandbox so ill do that. I suggest that dungeon runners get a means of fighting back, you just ignore it and say its fine now because you want to avoid pvp.

no one cares if "you dont want PVP. Period" in fact that just makes me want to gank you even more because i can in a sandbox game.

if you cant understand that then maybe go play a themepark MMO where they separate pvp and pve, while providing no risk for either activity? sounds more up your alley.

Xdehith wrote:

I don't speak much English, but here goes my grain of sand to this situation that already seems exhausting:

- Set limits to solo dungeons: 1 player vs 1 diver (with this there are no more scouts) and add the idea of the alternative exit in a random place in the dungeon, which appears when a certain level of the dungeon is cleared (no has to be when eliminating the boss) this eliminates the A-out

- Put limits on the dungeons of 2 to 4 players vs 2 to 4 divers, depending on the number of players the dungeon has at that time and add the idea of the alternative exit in a random place in the dungeon, which appears when a certain level of the dungeon is cleared ( it doesn't have to be when eliminating the boss) this eliminates the A-out

-For each area or level (blue, yellow, red, black, IV, V,VI,etc) a minimum Fame limit (it will prevent new users or alt to enter dangerous areas or for which they are not ready)

According to what I have read (quite informative by the way, I really appreciate it) the PvPers do not want the PvErs to run away with the A-out in the dungeons and the PvErs want fairer fighting and I think that with these measures this is somewhat solved situation. For everyone who enjoys intensive PvP, the game has many ways to achieve this: Arena, ZvZ, HG, GvG, etc. and even outside the dungeons, great and exciting conflicts can form. Once again, excuse my English

sh1ny wrote:

Xdehith wrote:

I don't speak much English, but here goes my grain of sand to this situation that already seems exhausting:

- Set limits to solo dungeons: 1 player vs 1 diver (with this there are no more scouts) and add the idea of the alternative exit in a random place in the dungeon, which appears when a certain level of the dungeon is cleared (no has to be when eliminating the boss) this eliminates the A-out

- Put limits on the dungeons of 2 to 4 players vs 2 to 4 divers, depending on the number of players the dungeon has at that time and add the idea of the alternative exit in a random place in the dungeon, which appears when a certain level of the dungeon is cleared ( it doesn't have to be when eliminating the boss) this eliminates the A-out

-For each area or level (blue, yellow, red, black, IV, V,VI,etc) a minimum Fame limit (it will prevent new users or alt to enter dangerous areas or for which they are not ready)

According to what I have read (quite informative by the way, I really appreciate it) the PvPers do not want the PvErs to run away with the A-out in the dungeons and the PvErs want fairer fighting and I think that with these measures this is somewhat solved situation. For everyone who enjoys intensive PvP, the game has many ways to achieve this: Arena, ZvZ, HG, GvG, etc. and even outside the dungeons, great and exciting conflicts can form. Once again, excuse my English

All those changes are pointless.
1 ) Limit solo dungeons means people will enter with as many as needed to have safe fame farm - no divers.
2 ) same goes for 2 to 4 players and 2 to 4 divers - just enter and lock it ( with 2 separate parties ) = no divers
3 ) Not gonna help with legit scouts, thus solves nothing. Even "minimum" fame for scout boxes is easily obtainable. You're also destroying the sandbox - my guild takes complete newbies to blackzones to power level them to t4/5/6. Why shouldn't we be able to do that ?

The unable to A out is pretty stupid.Say i am doing a dungeon with a party of 5 and i have another guild party doing a nearby dungeon. They are getting dived and they ask for help, but my party can't A-out to go and help them ? No thanks.

People will just have to wait for corrupted dungeons in august to solve the "solo" issues.
About scouts - there is not much that can be done against legit scouts.

Loholt wrote:

Dismadeus wrote:

Loholt wrote:

We beg to differ, I think I added a lot to the discussion by saying that the solution presented is not a solution and that divers doesn't have to limit themselves to INSIDE the dungeon only.You don't have to get mad at me and start throwing stones just because your solution is poor (and that is MY opinion about it, doesn't mean it is poor to someone else).

And I speak for myself, but the best drop I've ever got in a T8 blue dg was a 8.3 excepcional bag. And I do a lot of dgs. So I don't really see the "high reward, low risk" aspect because I actually lose silver doing dgs (because of yellow fame).

Unless you mean getting fame, in which case I agree that, when using scouts, it's a high reward, low risk business.

And, Idk, I'm starting to train PvP now (GvG and HG, mostly), after I learned a little more and established myself (at least in terms of combat spec). But when I go for dgs, I DON'T WANT PvP content. Period. "But it's a PvP driven game and blah blah blah". No, it's a sandbox game. I play the way I want. I want to farm fame and not get into PvP and so I'll go do that. If scouts let me do it in a safer way, then I'll use scouts (when not aganist the ToS rules)

And if divers are so eager to have PvP content, well, as stated above, there's plenty of it. PLENTY (open world gank, diving, HG, scrims, Arena, duels, GvGs, ZvZs, ranting in forums...). Just... Jesus... stop crying so much about someone wanting to play a sandbox game without getting jumped 5 times in the same dg by 10 dudes.

bro, pvp and pve are not mutually exclusive in this game, thats what you fail to see. (except hces! go do those if you want to be safe.. or blues or yellows. )i want to kill you in your dungeon, this is a sandbox so ill do that. I suggest that dungeon runners get a means of fighting back, you just ignore it and say its fine now because you want to avoid pvp.

no one cares if "you dont want PVP. Period" in fact that just makes me want to gank you even more because i can in a sandbox game.

if you cant understand that then maybe go play a themepark MMO where they separate pvp and pve, while providing no risk for either activity? sounds more up your alley.

I know they are not, I never said they were. Seems like you failed to understand my argument, since you said basically the same thing but with different words, so we are actually agreeing.
You want to "kill me in my dg" so you do that because it's a sandbox. YES, this is what I mean. So I DON'T want you to kill me, what do I do? I use a scout, because, well, it's a sandbox game. We are saying the exact same thing, my friend.

So you come and do what YOU want to do and I'll do what I want to do. Period. You want to dive and kill people. Please do. I want to farm and not be bothered. Will do.

That's why I don't understand the discussion here. Diving is low risk, high reward. Something had to be done to counter it. Scouts were born. Now PvE players stand a chance to either run (and still get ganked in the process) or fight (and still die). But it gets the game more fair (at least thats my POV). Is it 50-50 fair? No. It never will be. No solution will ever please everyone and that's a fact.

And yes, I intend to do HCEs exactly because I can scratch that itch of doing PvE content and not be bothered with PvP (and not having to pay scouts). It's just that it takes time to buy a whole 8.3 MP set. I'm still buying it all excelent (only 2 pieces left).

Lastly, that's the shittiest argument I've seen being repeated here. "Go play a themepark MMO". Dude, it's a sandbox game. If I can dodge ganks and play just the content I want (PvE), then why should I play another thing? This IS the game for me. I like to play it. Will continue to do so using scouts and whatnot as much as I want while learning PvP in my own time (since I want to be good at PvP to, well, gank and dive lol), because that's what sandbox means.

And you, on the other hand, go and try to dive and gank me as much as you can, because that is how YOU want to play. And both are ok. Because, let me repeat it, it's a sandbox game.

Will you be able to gank me? Yes. Will I be able to escape sometimes? Indeed I will.

And we'll repeat doing that until one (or both) of us want to play in a different way.

Maybe some day you'll want to farm dgs with scouts and I'll be the one trying to dive. It is a sandbox game, after all (one last time, just in case someone reading it still didn't get it).

Dismadeus wrote:

Loholt wrote:

Dismadeus wrote:

Loholt wrote:

We beg to differ, I think I added a lot to the discussion by saying that the solution presented is not a solution and that divers doesn't have to limit themselves to INSIDE the dungeon only.You don't have to get mad at me and start throwing stones just because your solution is poor (and that is MY opinion about it, doesn't mean it is poor to someone else).

And I speak for myself, but the best drop I've ever got in a T8 blue dg was a 8.3 excepcional bag. And I do a lot of dgs. So I don't really see the "high reward, low risk" aspect because I actually lose silver doing dgs (because of yellow fame).

Unless you mean getting fame, in which case I agree that, when using scouts, it's a high reward, low risk business.

And, Idk, I'm starting to train PvP now (GvG and HG, mostly), after I learned a little more and established myself (at least in terms of combat spec). But when I go for dgs, I DON'T WANT PvP content. Period. "But it's a PvP driven game and blah blah blah". No, it's a sandbox game. I play the way I want. I want to farm fame and not get into PvP and so I'll go do that. If scouts let me do it in a safer way, then I'll use scouts (when not aganist the ToS rules)

And if divers are so eager to have PvP content, well, as stated above, there's plenty of it. PLENTY (open world gank, diving, HG, scrims, Arena, duels, GvGs, ZvZs, ranting in forums...). Just... Jesus... stop crying so much about someone wanting to play a sandbox game without getting jumped 5 times in the same dg by 10 dudes.

bro, pvp and pve are not mutually exclusive in this game, thats what you fail to see. (except hces! go do those if you want to be safe.. or blues or yellows. )i want to kill you in your dungeon, this is a sandbox so ill do that. I suggest that dungeon runners get a means of fighting back, you just ignore it and say its fine now because you want to avoid pvp.
no one cares if "you dont want PVP. Period" in fact that just makes me want to gank you even more because i can in a sandbox game.

if you cant understand that then maybe go play a themepark MMO where they separate pvp and pve, while providing no risk for either activity? sounds more up your alley.

I know they are not, I never said they were. Seems like you failed to understand my argument, since you said basically the same thing but with different words, so we are actually agreeing.You want to "kill me in my dg" so you do that because it's a sandbox. YES, this is what I mean. So I DON'T want you to kill me, what do I do? I use a scout, because, well, it's a sandbox game. We are saying the exact same thing, my friend.

So you come and do what YOU want to do and I'll do what I want to do. Period. You want to dive and kill people. Please do. I want to farm and not be bothered. Will do.

That's why I don't understand the discussion here. Diving is low risk, high reward. Something had to be done to counter it. Scouts were born. Now PvE players stand a chance to either run (and still get ganked in the process) or fight (and still die). But it gets the game more fair (at least thats my POV). Is it 50-50 fair? No. It never will be. No solution will ever please everyone and that's a fact.

And yes, I intend to do HCEs exactly because I can scratch that itch of doing PvE content and not be bothered with PvP (and not having to pay scouts). It's just that it takes time to buy a whole 8.3 MP set. I'm still buying it all excelent (only 2 pieces left).

Lastly, that's the shittiest argument I've seen being repeated here. "Go play a themepark MMO". Dude, it's a sandbox game. If I can dodge ganks and play just the content I want (PvE), then why should I play another thing? This IS the game for me. I like to play it. Will continue to do so using scouts and whatnot as much as I want while learning PvP in my own time (since I want to be good at PvP to, well, gank and dive lol), because that's what sandbox means.

And you, on the other hand, go and try to dive and gank me as much as you can, because that is how YOU want to play. And both are ok. Because, let me repeat it, it's a sandbox game.

Will you be able to gank me? Yes. Will I be able to escape sometimes? Indeed I will.

And we'll repeat doing that until one (or both) of us want to play in a different way.

Maybe some day you'll want to farm dgs with scouts and I'll be the one trying to dive. It is a sandbox game, after all (one last time, just in case someone reading it still didn't get it).

this just hurt to read dude. this is why i tell you to play a themepark. your gunna get bored of albion really fast, the pves like a shitty diablo lol.
sure, use scouts if you want, but it then makes the risk go to extremely low for the dungeon runners, and then the divers will n+1 to just shut down maps instead, and still kill you.

this only propagates the issues of, low risk, high reward gameplay in both pve and pvp.

thats a problem.

you dont understand this, dont see why having to n+1 everything is a problem.

you dont see why low risk end game pve in a full loot game is a problem, because you want it to be low risk.

my suggestion simply gives dungeon runners a greater opportunity to defend themselves from gankers, and kill them too. providing more risk to both parties, but even more to the gankers because now they arent seal clubbing pve players, they are having to fight a group that knows they are coming.

it wont be ignored, its too much of an issue. just like n+1 gank squads that dont let people into the BZ via portal zones are a big enough issue to warrant roads of avalon,

just like n+1 to be megas and own every hideout that was designed for small groups is a problem, big enough to warrant, roads of avalon so people dont have to just resort to always having to n+1 to even have a hideout that was advertised for small groups.

this is also why dungeon scouting and mechanics will be addressed and overhauled in the future.

if you dont agree, thats fine, this gets brought up enough though that it will be addressed when sbi is able to.

iRawr wrote:

You really think so? Then why you suggestion all about to trap PvE group in dungeon and nothing about n+1 gankers?Ok your suggestion is for what you want us to think for "fair risk/reward for all".

Sure ok, lets see, we are a regular 5 ppl party, in dungeon.

Group of 9+ divers come to the dungeon.

Your suggestion is here, they can not a-out, and preparing to fight.

Who got risk, and who will get reward in this not rare case?
99% chance of this case, if divers sure the PvE group can not escape.


Now tell me, what your suggestion really for, and what you really want?

iRawr wrote:

Dismadeus wrote:

Loholt wrote:

Dismadeus wrote:

Loholt wrote:

We beg to differ, I think I added a lot to the discussion by saying that the solution presented is not a solution and that divers doesn't have to limit themselves to INSIDE the dungeon only.You don't have to get mad at me and start throwing stones just because your solution is poor (and that is MY opinion about it, doesn't mean it is poor to someone else).

And I speak for myself, but the best drop I've ever got in a T8 blue dg was a 8.3 excepcional bag. And I do a lot of dgs. So I don't really see the "high reward, low risk" aspect because I actually lose silver doing dgs (because of yellow fame).

Unless you mean getting fame, in which case I agree that, when using scouts, it's a high reward, low risk business.

And, Idk, I'm starting to train PvP now (GvG and HG, mostly), after I learned a little more and established myself (at least in terms of combat spec). But when I go for dgs, I DON'T WANT PvP content. Period. "But it's a PvP driven game and blah blah blah". No, it's a sandbox game. I play the way I want. I want to farm fame and not get into PvP and so I'll go do that. If scouts let me do it in a safer way, then I'll use scouts (when not aganist the ToS rules)

And if divers are so eager to have PvP content, well, as stated above, there's plenty of it. PLENTY (open world gank, diving, HG, scrims, Arena, duels, GvGs, ZvZs, ranting in forums...). Just... Jesus... stop crying so much about someone wanting to play a sandbox game without getting jumped 5 times in the same dg by 10 dudes.

bro, pvp and pve are not mutually exclusive in this game, thats what you fail to see. (except hces! go do those if you want to be safe.. or blues or yellows. )i want to kill you in your dungeon, this is a sandbox so ill do that. I suggest that dungeon runners get a means of fighting back, you just ignore it and say its fine now because you want to avoid pvp.no one cares if "you dont want PVP. Period" in fact that just makes me want to gank you even more because i can in a sandbox game.

if you cant understand that then maybe go play a themepark MMO where they separate pvp and pve, while providing no risk for either activity? sounds more up your alley.

I know they are not, I never said they were. Seems like you failed to understand my argument, since you said basically the same thing but with different words, so we are actually agreeing.You want to "kill me in my dg" so you do that because it's a sandbox. YES, this is what I mean. So I DON'T want you to kill me, what do I do? I use a scout, because, well, it's a sandbox game. We are saying the exact same thing, my friend.
So you come and do what YOU want to do and I'll do what I want to do. Period. You want to dive and kill people. Please do. I want to farm and not be bothered. Will do.

That's why I don't understand the discussion here. Diving is low risk, high reward. Something had to be done to counter it. Scouts were born. Now PvE players stand a chance to either run (and still get ganked in the process) or fight (and still die). But it gets the game more fair (at least thats my POV). Is it 50-50 fair? No. It never will be. No solution will ever please everyone and that's a fact.

And yes, I intend to do HCEs exactly because I can scratch that itch of doing PvE content and not be bothered with PvP (and not having to pay scouts). It's just that it takes time to buy a whole 8.3 MP set. I'm still buying it all excelent (only 2 pieces left).

Lastly, that's the shittiest argument I've seen being repeated here. "Go play a themepark MMO". Dude, it's a sandbox game. If I can dodge ganks and play just the content I want (PvE), then why should I play another thing? This IS the game for me. I like to play it. Will continue to do so using scouts and whatnot as much as I want while learning PvP in my own time (since I want to be good at PvP to, well, gank and dive lol), because that's what sandbox means.

And you, on the other hand, go and try to dive and gank me as much as you can, because that is how YOU want to play. And both are ok. Because, let me repeat it, it's a sandbox game.

Will you be able to gank me? Yes. Will I be able to escape sometimes? Indeed I will.

And we'll repeat doing that until one (or both) of us want to play in a different way.

Maybe some day you'll want to farm dgs with scouts and I'll be the one trying to dive. It is a sandbox game, after all (one last time, just in case someone reading it still didn't get it).

this just hurt to read dude. this is why i tell you to play a themepark. your gunna get bored of albion really fast, the pves like a shitty diablo lol.sure, use scouts if you want, but it then makes the risk go to extremely low for the dungeon runners, and then the divers will n+1 to just shut down maps instead, and still kill you.

this only propagates the issues of, low risk, high reward gameplay in both pve and pvp.

thats a problem.

you dont understand this, dont see why having to n+1 everything is a problem.

you dont see why low risk end game pve in a full loot game is a problem, because you want it to be low risk.

my suggestion simply gives dungeon runners a greater opportunity to defend themselves from gankers, and kill them too. providing more risk to both parties, but even more to the gankers because now they arent seal clubbing pve players, they are having to fight a group that knows they are coming.

it wont be ignored, its too much of an issue. just like n+1 gank squads that dont let people into the BZ via portal zones are a big enough issue to warrant roads of avalon,

just like n+1 to be megas and own every hideout that was designed for small groups is a problem, big enough to warrant, roads of avalon so people dont have to just resort to always having to n+1 to even have a hideout that was advertised for small groups.

this is also why dungeon scouting and mechanics will be addressed and overhauled in the future.

if you dont agree, thats fine, this gets brought up enough though that it will be addressed when sbi is able to.

You really think so? Then why you suggestion all about to trap PvE group in dungeon and nothing about n+1 gankers?Ok your suggestion is for what you want us to think for "fair risk/reward for all".

Sure ok, lets see, we are a regular 5 ppl party, in dungeon.

Group of 9+ divers come to the dungeon.

Your suggestion is here, they can not a-out, and preparing to fight.

Who got risk, and who will get reward in this not rare case?
99% chance of this case, if divers sure the PvE group can not escape.


Now tell me, what your suggestion really for, and what you really want?

Dismadeus wrote:

iRawr wrote:

Dismadeus wrote:

this just hurt to read dude. this is why i tell you to play a themepark. your gunna get bored of albion really fast, the pves like a shitty diablo lol.sure, use scouts if you want, but it then makes the risk go to extremely low for the dungeon runners, and then the divers will n+1 to just shut down maps instead, and still kill you.
this only propagates the issues of, low risk, high reward gameplay in both pve and pvp.

thats a problem.

you dont understand this, dont see why having to n+1 everything is a problem.

you dont see why low risk end game pve in a full loot game is a problem, because you want it to be low risk.

my suggestion simply gives dungeon runners a greater opportunity to defend themselves from gankers, and kill them too. providing more risk to both parties, but even more to the gankers because now they arent seal clubbing pve players, they are having to fight a group that knows they are coming.

it wont be ignored, its too much of an issue. just like n+1 gank squads that dont let people into the BZ via portal zones are a big enough issue to warrant roads of avalon,

just like n+1 to be megas and own every hideout that was designed for small groups is a problem, big enough to warrant, roads of avalon so people dont have to just resort to always having to n+1 to even have a hideout that was advertised for small groups.

this is also why dungeon scouting and mechanics will be addressed and overhauled in the future.

if you dont agree, thats fine, this gets brought up enough though that it will be addressed when sbi is able to.

You really think so? Then why you suggestion all about to trap PvE group in dungeon and nothing about n+1 gankers?Ok your suggestion is for what you want us to think for "fair risk/reward for all".
Sure ok, lets see, we are a regular 5 ppl party, in dungeon.

Group of 9+ divers come to the dungeon.

Your suggestion is here, they can not a-out, and preparing to fight.

Who got risk, and who will get reward in this not rare case?
99% chance of this case, if divers sure the PvE group can not escape.


Now tell me, what your suggestion really for, and what you really want?

you can kill the divers? its really not that hard.... most divers are really bad players because they want to fish easy kills from people who just run, not fight back.
you can design your group to be able to fight better. divers often dont have healers, etc etc.

funny enough a lot of divers are actually dungeon running groups, that bring some dive gear.

i do lots of pve , need fame to do well in pvp with certain stuff. How do i deal with gankers? i fight them, 9/10 times they just run away when they realize you arent an easy kill and they will have to work for it.

what do i really want? to maintain the risk of pve in high tier zones, but to ADD MORE RISK TO GANKERS AS WELL VIA DUNGEON GROUPS BEING PREPARED TO FIGHT AND KILL DIVERS.

if you simply want no PVP at all with 0 risk of it happening, HCEs are a thing you know...............

like ffs, there is literally a place people can PVE risk free, the fame/loots not as good but again

RISK VRS REWARD

its too safe for both gankers and dungeon runners right now.

this game is literally all about pvp, the a full loot pvp based economy, deal with it or move onto a themepark mmo...

or just do hces i guess and never leave town?

Deathskills wrote:

Dismadeus wrote:

iRawr wrote:

Dismadeus wrote:

this just hurt to read dude. this is why i tell you to play a themepark. your gunna get bored of albion really fast, the pves like a shitty diablo lol.sure, use scouts if you want, but it then makes the risk go to extremely low for the dungeon runners, and then the divers will n+1 to just shut down maps instead, and still kill you.
this only propagates the issues of, low risk, high reward gameplay in both pve and pvp.

thats a problem.

you dont understand this, dont see why having to n+1 everything is a problem.

you dont see why low risk end game pve in a full loot game is a problem, because you want it to be low risk.

my suggestion simply gives dungeon runners a greater opportunity to defend themselves from gankers, and kill them too. providing more risk to both parties, but even more to the gankers because now they arent seal clubbing pve players, they are having to fight a group that knows they are coming.

it wont be ignored, its too much of an issue. just like n+1 gank squads that dont let people into the BZ via portal zones are a big enough issue to warrant roads of avalon,

just like n+1 to be megas and own every hideout that was designed for small groups is a problem, big enough to warrant, roads of avalon so people dont have to just resort to always having to n+1 to even have a hideout that was advertised for small groups.

this is also why dungeon scouting and mechanics will be addressed and overhauled in the future.

if you dont agree, thats fine, this gets brought up enough though that it will be addressed when sbi is able to.

You really think so? Then why you suggestion all about to trap PvE group in dungeon and nothing about n+1 gankers?Ok your suggestion is for what you want us to think for "fair risk/reward for all".Sure ok, lets see, we are a regular 5 ppl party, in dungeon.

Group of 9+ divers come to the dungeon.

Your suggestion is here, they can not a-out, and preparing to fight.

Who got risk, and who will get reward in this not rare case?
99% chance of this case, if divers sure the PvE group can not escape.


Now tell me, what your suggestion really for, and what you really want?

you can kill the divers? its really not that hard.... most divers are really bad players because they want to fish easy kills from people who just run, not fight back.you can design your group to be able to fight better. divers often dont have healers, etc etc.

funny enough a lot of divers are actually dungeon running groups, that bring some dive gear.

i do lots of pve , need fame to do well in pvp with certain stuff. How do i deal with gankers? i fight them, 9/10 times they just run away when they realize you arent an easy kill and they will have to work for it.

what do i really want? to maintain the risk of pve in high tier zones, but to ADD MORE RISK TO GANKERS AS WELL VIA DUNGEON GROUPS BEING PREPARED TO FIGHT AND KILL DIVERS.

if you simply want no PVP at all with 0 risk of it happening, HCEs are a thing you know...............

like ffs, there is literally a place people can PVE risk free, the fame/loots not as good but again

RISK VRS REWARD

its too safe for both gankers and dungeon runners right now.

this game is literally all about pvp, the a full loot pvp based economy, deal with it or move onto a themepark mmo...

or just do hces i guess and never leave town?

Funny issue with your statement is from my humble experience, groups that dive come with 10 guys at most (you blob at 11 peeps) and they do have 2 healer and they are in zerg gear and intend to get a fight against a pve 5man group or 4man group. so just the fact they have twice the number with a zvz ready tank instead of a freaking incubus mace or 1h hammer, makes a really huge difference in the initial engage and that excludes the chances of them getting on you mid pull or mid boss and they'll do their best to prevent the boss/pull to reset so they have the easiest time ever to get the kills.
your HCE bull crap is not valid since there is a high entry cost. Heck, with high end crystal and 20v20 fights, hce is up there in cost. we are talking for a "cheap" set to run 12-14 maps about 65mil and that is counting on you having high specs too. A "perfect" frost gear sets for HCE costs about 200-240mil depending on how good you bargain certain items.

And regardless of that, the cost of not "losing" the gear comes from the repair cost of going down. in 8.3 excellent it costs 160k per down and in mp it's something like 175k. So if you have a bad tank, or bad healer, you can bet your group will down multiple times and each time the group wipes, there's close to 1mil silver in repair costs.

so please enlight me how without a scout you can be "ready" as a 4-5 man in pve gear to fight 9+ people in zerg gear? Oh yeah right, best option is actually to A out if you had a scout since the odds are against you surviving the engage since you'll already be dealing with mobs.

Oh and HCE might actually have better rewards imo than freaking group dungeon in bz just due to the fact you don't need to sell items, you just get silver and you get high fame in level 13-15.

Might be full loot pvp based, but it ain't fully since doing pvp doesn't give you "usable" fame to specs shit up though. Y'a need to think about that one too.

Owlsane wrote:

Hilarious to see and read that the one complaining about scouts are the one doing n+1 ganking.

I'm glad they use scouts as an shitty answer to the shitty way of getting doved. Can't dive somebody with less than 3 people even with mobs putting the guy low life? Sad.

Unless divers change their shitty way of diving you won't see any change watsoever to the one doing the dungeon.

End of story.