We beg to differ, I think I added a lot to the discussion by saying that the solution presented is not a solution and that divers doesn't have to limit themselves to INSIDE the dungeon only.were arguing that there should be more risk to both divers, and dungeon runners.the system we have now does not incentivize PVP and is far too safe for both the dungeon runner and gankers.Ideas like this are, IMO, useless.You're just trading the A out for something that'd be basically the same thing, but take 10x as long.i think being able to A out is a little too safe when combined with a scout but yes you are right, there needs to be more rewards/a better fighting chance for the pve players.If you could only leave at the start or end of a dungeon, but were alerted that a group that isnt your party came inside somehow, you would be able to prepare to fight, run past the gankers to the entrance/exit, or skip the remaining adds and leave via the exit at the end.Only shitters ask for remove a-out.Risk of bigger group in dungeon?LolRisk of waste of time?Things a group running a dungeon can do are below. This assumes a dungeon enemy alert/A out removed compromise is made.
*As Holly mentioned above leave a few mobs up at entrance lazy divers will not bother checking past the first few pulls. The enemy alert would only happen if non-party individuals enter after you enter so the divers would not be alerted someone is already inside.
*Once you are alerted as the runners you can leave a few mobs up in front of you to give your group the fight advantage against the divers.
*You can choose to try to run through mobs and kill final boss fast as that is what would spawn the exit portal (you would not get loot in this case since the chest would not open due to not clearing enough mobs).
*You should have AoE type abilities already as the running group as will the divers. Therefore the only difference is defensives. If you run some at risk comp without planning for a potential dive that is on you. Mobs are easy to clear.
The risk to the divers is the runners have a larger group (which is often the case all diving is not excessive numbers). The other risk is often it can take 30 to 40 minutes to even find a dungeon being ran. That is all lost money making opportunity elsewhere.
Ok sure, but you still like x20 reward from the reward of group in dungeon.
But the have all this risks + divers risk.
So you ask to reduce risk for divers, who got x20 reward.
And increase risk for players who need fame farm(new players), who got less reward.
Why you say something about balance?
Just say it fair, we want the free items from new players group, we want them no chance to run, we want kill secure.
Just ask SBI kill all in dungeon right when you enter, and transfer all they gear to your bank.
This is what you want, so ask about it loud and clear.
And dont shit us like "we wanna pvp", if you wanna pvp - go 5v5 hellgate.
There is alot of ppl who have pvp gear and wanna pvp, they will be happy to pvp with you.
its the same as solo dungeons right now, usually it doesnt matter if you have one or 5 guys if you find a solo player mid pull, hes gunna die.
on the same note, 2-3 divers can kill a pve group of 5+ players with no scout in a group dungeon assuming you get them mid pull.
the system needs a change, more risk, more reward, and more options for counter play IMO is whats needed.
If I had a scout and got dived I'd just run with my party past mobs with skip gear and use the exit. It'd take longer, the divers would also take longer because they'd also have to skip the mobs to try and get to us and, in the end, we'd all be in the exact same spot.
Here is a tip for divers: you can actually gank in the open world too. When people A out you can chase them (I know, big surprise here for you guys!) and kill them after the bubble disappears (which requires either time or distance).
But, as stated by everyone, what divers want is free lot, not PvP content, they just say PvP because they want their argument of banning scouts to sound "fair" while we all know they just want a fight they can't lose with a nice loot in the end (0 risk, high reward). We all know that if they wanted PvP they'd go Arena, GvG, HG, ZvZ or even try to gank in the open world.
So what we are actually arguing is if we should give people who want 0 risk and high reward the content they want. And I honestly have no idea why we should. I can't understand why we are actually discussing this for so long.
your comment doesnt do anything, doesnt add to the discussion.
sure we can gank in the overworld, people do already with blobs of 20+ and also enjoy no risk high reward ganking, witch needs to change as well.
i also dont understand why we keep giving people (dungeon runners ) high reward and little risk. i also cant understand why this problem of scouts, no risk ganking, and n+1 literally everything that doesnt have a hard player cap .
i dont understand why people like you think they have anything valuable to contribute when clearly all you want to do is run dungeons with 0 risk and all the reward.
You don't have to get mad at me and start throwing stones just because your solution is poor (and that is MY opinion about it, doesn't mean it is poor to someone else).
And I speak for myself, but the best drop I've ever got in a T8 blue dg was a 8.3 excepcional bag. And I do a lot of dgs. So I don't really see the "high reward, low risk" aspect because I actually lose silver doing dgs (because of yellow fame).
Unless you mean getting fame, in which case I agree that, when using scouts, it's a high reward, low risk business.
And, Idk, I'm starting to train PvP now (GvG and HG, mostly), after I learned a little more and established myself (at least in terms of combat spec). But when I go for dgs, I DON'T WANT PvP content. Period. "But it's a PvP driven game and blah blah blah". No, it's a sandbox game. I play the way I want. I want to farm fame and not get into PvP and so I'll go do that. If scouts let me do it in a safer way, then I'll use scouts (when not aganist the ToS rules)
And if divers are so eager to have PvP content, well, as stated above, there's plenty of it. PLENTY (open world gank, diving, HG, scrims, Arena, duels, GvGs, ZvZs, ranting in forums...). Just... Jesus... stop crying so much about someone wanting to play a sandbox game without getting jumped 5 times in the same dg by 10 dudes.
i want to kill you in your dungeon, this is a sandbox so ill do that. I suggest that dungeon runners get a means of fighting back, you just ignore it and say its fine now because you want to avoid pvp.
no one cares if "you dont want PVP. Period" in fact that just makes me want to gank you even more because i can in a sandbox game.
if you cant understand that then maybe go play a themepark MMO where they separate pvp and pve, while providing no risk for either activity? sounds more up your alley.