Dungeon Scouting

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    • iRawr wrote:

      Tabor wrote:

      Things a group running a dungeon can do are below. This assumes a dungeon enemy alert/A out removed compromise is made.

      *As Holly mentioned above leave a few mobs up at entrance lazy divers will not bother checking past the first few pulls. The enemy alert would only happen if non-party individuals enter after you enter so the divers would not be alerted someone is already inside.

      *Once you are alerted as the runners you can leave a few mobs up in front of you to give your group the fight advantage against the divers.

      *You can choose to try to run through mobs and kill final boss fast as that is what would spawn the exit portal (you would not get loot in this case since the chest would not open due to not clearing enough mobs).

      *You should have AoE type abilities already as the running group as will the divers. Therefore the only difference is defensives. If you run some at risk comp without planning for a potential dive that is on you. Mobs are easy to clear.

      The risk to the divers is the runners have a larger group (which is often the case all diving is not excessive numbers). The other risk is often it can take 30 to 40 minutes to even find a dungeon being ran. That is all lost money making opportunity elsewhere.
      Only shitters ask for remove a-out.
      Risk of bigger group in dungeon?
      Lol

      Risk of waste of time?

      Ok sure, but you still like x20 reward from the reward of group in dungeon.

      But the have all this risks + divers risk.

      So you ask to reduce risk for divers, who got x20 reward.

      And increase risk for players who need fame farm(new players), who got less reward.


      Why you say something about balance?
      Just say it fair, we want the free items from new players group, we want them no chance to run, we want kill secure.

      Just ask SBI kill all in dungeon right when you enter, and transfer all they gear to your bank.
      This is what you want, so ask about it loud and clear.

      And dont shit us like "we wanna pvp", if you wanna pvp - go 5v5 hellgate.

      There is alot of ppl who have pvp gear and wanna pvp, they will be happy to pvp with you.

      i think being able to A out is a little too safe when combined with a scout but yes you are right, there needs to be more rewards/a better fighting chance for the pve players.

      If you could only leave at the start or end of a dungeon, but were alerted that a group that isnt your party came inside somehow, you would be able to prepare to fight, run past the gankers to the entrance/exit, or skip the remaining adds and leave via the exit at the end.

      its the same as solo dungeons right now, usually it doesnt matter if you have one or 5 guys if you find a solo player mid pull, hes gunna die.

      on the same note, 2-3 divers can kill a pve group of 5+ players with no scout in a group dungeon assuming you get them mid pull.


      the system needs a change, more risk, more reward, and more options for counter play IMO is whats needed.
      generic signature
    • Dismadeus wrote:

      iRawr wrote:

      Tabor wrote:

      Things a group running a dungeon can do are below. This assumes a dungeon enemy alert/A out removed compromise is made.

      *As Holly mentioned above leave a few mobs up at entrance lazy divers will not bother checking past the first few pulls. The enemy alert would only happen if non-party individuals enter after you enter so the divers would not be alerted someone is already inside.

      *Once you are alerted as the runners you can leave a few mobs up in front of you to give your group the fight advantage against the divers.

      *You can choose to try to run through mobs and kill final boss fast as that is what would spawn the exit portal (you would not get loot in this case since the chest would not open due to not clearing enough mobs).

      *You should have AoE type abilities already as the running group as will the divers. Therefore the only difference is defensives. If you run some at risk comp without planning for a potential dive that is on you. Mobs are easy to clear.

      The risk to the divers is the runners have a larger group (which is often the case all diving is not excessive numbers). The other risk is often it can take 30 to 40 minutes to even find a dungeon being ran. That is all lost money making opportunity elsewhere.
      Only shitters ask for remove a-out.Risk of bigger group in dungeon?
      Lol

      Risk of waste of time?

      Ok sure, but you still like x20 reward from the reward of group in dungeon.

      But the have all this risks + divers risk.

      So you ask to reduce risk for divers, who got x20 reward.

      And increase risk for players who need fame farm(new players), who got less reward.


      Why you say something about balance?
      Just say it fair, we want the free items from new players group, we want them no chance to run, we want kill secure.

      Just ask SBI kill all in dungeon right when you enter, and transfer all they gear to your bank.
      This is what you want, so ask about it loud and clear.

      And dont shit us like "we wanna pvp", if you wanna pvp - go 5v5 hellgate.

      There is alot of ppl who have pvp gear and wanna pvp, they will be happy to pvp with you.
      i think being able to A out is a little too safe when combined with a scout but yes you are right, there needs to be more rewards/a better fighting chance for the pve players.

      If you could only leave at the start or end of a dungeon, but were alerted that a group that isnt your party came inside somehow, you would be able to prepare to fight, run past the gankers to the entrance/exit, or skip the remaining adds and leave via the exit at the end.

      its the same as solo dungeons right now, usually it doesnt matter if you have one or 5 guys if you find a solo player mid pull, hes gunna die.

      on the same note, 2-3 divers can kill a pve group of 5+ players with no scout in a group dungeon assuming you get them mid pull.


      the system needs a change, more risk, more reward, and more options for counter play IMO is whats needed.
      Fun of this situation, is the divers/gankers also using alt scouts to check map entrances, but no one of them ask to fix this too.

      Real talk is, if we talk about problem.
      Scouts are consequence, of risk/reward problem.
      As for group dungeon where risks is hight, but loot is shit.
      And for dungeon dive, where you have option to bring 9+ ppl, to remove any possible risk. With 4+ sets of nice PvE gear as reward.

      So i just think, the reason should be fixed, so consequence will disappear itself.
    • Scouts remove the possibility that divers get free loot while pve players are in the middle of a pull. I lost count of the amount of times I exit dungeon and enter again and get them from behind in a "fair fight", not that fair because they didn't expect to fight someone whit pvp gear. But I agree that black zones should be riskier so remove scouts right now isn't the solution but give a reason to people that are doing pve stuff to not need a scout. And this will only comes whit a chance to them fight back or manage to run.
      I make iRawr my words. People are not looking for pvp while diving but free loot. If you want pvp you go hellgates. The loot is FAR better BUT you have to fight for it and that's not what divers are looking for.
    • I find it funny that Divers are complaining that they cant easily dive people because of Scouts and the A.

      Its like beeing a bully that doesnt want any trouble and no problems bullying people.


      Let the People have fun. And if you cant win fair and have to dive. Thats your problem.

      Maybe do Hellgates, ZvZ, Arena, Leagues and so on. More competitive pvp and you get loot if you win.
      T8 Greataxe Main
      T6 Mace Tank
    • Some people/groups just aren't good at PvP. So sending them to a fair fight (ZvZ, HG, etc) isn't going to do much for them. They want and need the unfair fight. If the only content available for them is fair fighting, where they will lose 100% of the time, they are going to quit the game. Most might say good riddance, but I think SBI wants to keep everyone playing (and buying premium and gold from them). Cheese Gank Groups are part of the game too. So they should have content. That is why a compromise should be made with the scouting thing. Not saying it should be done away with completely (because that is impossible) but give the Cheese Players something. These are the people who can't even Portal Gank because the other Portal Gank Groups forced them out, and there are only so many Yellow Zone - Red Zone borders.

      Anyways, last time I will say this. Put a Mob/Gather Fame Requirement on entering the Black Zone. All these scouts are super low fame with names like 'Gank Prevention' and 'Scouty McScout'. If these Wankers can't enter the Black Zone, then the group will at least have to convince someone with decent fame to take time out of his/her day to scout and get no fame himself/herself. More and more groups won't have a scout because they can't bring their low-fame alt, or noob recruit trying to make money for premium. If they can convince someone with high fame to come scout for them, cool, the gank group has to suck it up. Fame requirement for entering Black Zone!!!!!

      While your at it, put a Fame Requirement on flagging red. Having 10 players with under 25k mob fame flagging red and ganking Gatherers as they try to enter back into the Yellow Zone is stupid. They should earn the right to flag red by playing the game first.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Blenfjorn ().

    • Blenfjorn wrote:

      Some people/groups just aren't good at PvP. So sending them to a fair fight (ZvZ, HG, etc) isn't going to do much for them. They want and need the unfair fight. If the only content available for them is fair fighting, where they will lose 100% of the time, they are going to quit the game. Most might say good riddance, but I think SBI wants to keep everyone playing (and buying premium and gold from them). Cheese Gank Groups are part of the game too. So they should have content. That is why a compromise should be made with the scouting thing. Not saying it should be done away with completely (because that is impossible) but give the Cheese Players something. These are the people who can't even Portal Gank because the other Portal Gank Groups forced them out, and there are only so many Yellow Zone - Red Zone borders.

      Anyways, last time I will say this. Put a Mob/Gather Fame Requirement on entering the Black Zone. All these scouts are super low fame with names like 'Gank Prevention' and 'Scouty McScout'. If these Wankers can't enter the Black Zone, then the group will at least have to convince someone with decent fame to take time out of his/her day to scout and get no fame himself/herself. More and more groups won't have a scout because they can't bring their low-fame alt, or noob recruit trying to make money for premium. If they can convince someone with high fame to come scout for them, cool, the gank group has to suck it up. Fame requirement for entering Black Zone!!!!!

      While your at it, put a Fame Requirement on flagging red. Having 10 players with under 25k mob fame flagging red and ganking Gatherers as they try to enter back into the Yellow Zone is stupid. They should earn the right to flag red by playing the game first.
      You say that the divers will quit if they dont get a unfair fight.

      Whats with the people getting dived? If u reduce their chances even more then why shouldnt they want to quit?

      And if Divers/Gankers get Dived or Ganked. Then they should taste their own medicine.

      Edit: And putting a fame limit on zones reduces the "Sandbox" aspect of the game.
      T8 Greataxe Main
      T6 Mace Tank
    • Olafxder wrote:

      You say that the divers will quit if they dont get a unfair fight.
      Whats with the people getting dived? If u reduce their chances even more then why shouldnt they want to quit?

      And if Divers/Gankers get Dived or Ganked. Then they should taste their own medicine.

      Edit: And putting a fame limit on zones reduces the "Sandbox" aspect of the game.
      Well the people getting dove can either hire a scout with sufficient fame to enter Black Zone (assuming my idea is used) or try to find a better strategy. Dive Groups can still get beat by a decent group. I think it's cheese-play to dive, but it is even more cheese to have a low-fame Scout sitting in the beginning of the dungeon. I am all for a compromise. I get the both sides of the argument, so something that works for everyone would be nice.

      Adding a Fame Restriction may reduce the "Sandbox" aspect to an extent, but not really. There are plenty mechanics in the game that you have to earn before you can use/do. This can be one of them.

      For the record, this doesn't really affect me personally. I do not fame farm Black Zone Group Dungeons, nor do I dive them. Just trying to help you all come to a solution.
    • Maybe but just maybe. A Timer if people dive in your dungeon (Like the diver/s have to loadtime 30 secs). So u can defeat the mobs you're fighting and can switch to pvp gear. And taking away the A while getting dived in the time. Would take away the need for scouts.

      Could be a Compromise.

      Or give the divers a little debuff. Like less dmg against players or other debuffs.
      T8 Greataxe Main
      T6 Mace Tank
    • Olafxder wrote:

      Maybe but just maybe. A Timer if people dive in your dungeon (Like the diver/s have to loadtime 30 secs). So u can defeat the mobs you're fighting and can switch to pvp gear. And taking away the A while getting dived in the time. Would take away the need for scouts.

      Could be a Compromise.

      Or give the divers a little debuff. Like less dmg against players or other debuffs.
      That's pretty good too.
    • Blenfjorn wrote:

      Olafxder wrote:

      Maybe but just maybe. A Timer if people dive in your dungeon (Like the diver/s have to loadtime 30 secs). So u can defeat the mobs you're fighting and can switch to pvp gear. And taking away the A while getting dived in the time. Would take away the need for scouts.

      Could be a Compromise.

      Or give the divers a little debuff. Like less dmg against players or other debuffs.
      That's pretty good too.
      Really? And how it will change PvE group chance vs 9+ divers?

      Again, you asking for free kills and free loot from players who trying get fame, so they finally can become a part of PvP in this game.

      But no, you want to trap em, dont let em escape, force em to fight 4 v 9+ BEFORE they was ready to be real part of real PvP in this game.

      You call this cheese diving, but talk about oh its so hard, no, its not hard to fight 9+ vs pve group. And if its only thing they can do, no one need em in PvP game.

      They are shitter, who not even a content for PvP players, just like usless trash you can step on and make you shoes dirty. Yes, the dirt is a part of world, but no one like it, same as no one need it.
    • Dismadeus wrote:

      iRawr wrote:

      Tabor wrote:

      Things a group running a dungeon can do are below. This assumes a dungeon enemy alert/A out removed compromise is made.

      *As Holly mentioned above leave a few mobs up at entrance lazy divers will not bother checking past the first few pulls. The enemy alert would only happen if non-party individuals enter after you enter so the divers would not be alerted someone is already inside.

      *Once you are alerted as the runners you can leave a few mobs up in front of you to give your group the fight advantage against the divers.

      *You can choose to try to run through mobs and kill final boss fast as that is what would spawn the exit portal (you would not get loot in this case since the chest would not open due to not clearing enough mobs).

      *You should have AoE type abilities already as the running group as will the divers. Therefore the only difference is defensives. If you run some at risk comp without planning for a potential dive that is on you. Mobs are easy to clear.

      The risk to the divers is the runners have a larger group (which is often the case all diving is not excessive numbers). The other risk is often it can take 30 to 40 minutes to even find a dungeon being ran. That is all lost money making opportunity elsewhere.
      Only shitters ask for remove a-out.Risk of bigger group in dungeon?
      Lol

      Risk of waste of time?

      Ok sure, but you still like x20 reward from the reward of group in dungeon.

      But the have all this risks + divers risk.

      So you ask to reduce risk for divers, who got x20 reward.

      And increase risk for players who need fame farm(new players), who got less reward.


      Why you say something about balance?
      Just say it fair, we want the free items from new players group, we want them no chance to run, we want kill secure.

      Just ask SBI kill all in dungeon right when you enter, and transfer all they gear to your bank.
      This is what you want, so ask about it loud and clear.

      And dont shit us like "we wanna pvp", if you wanna pvp - go 5v5 hellgate.

      There is alot of ppl who have pvp gear and wanna pvp, they will be happy to pvp with you.
      i think being able to A out is a little too safe when combined with a scout but yes you are right, there needs to be more rewards/a better fighting chance for the pve players.

      If you could only leave at the start or end of a dungeon, but were alerted that a group that isnt your party came inside somehow, you would be able to prepare to fight, run past the gankers to the entrance/exit, or skip the remaining adds and leave via the exit at the end.

      its the same as solo dungeons right now, usually it doesnt matter if you have one or 5 guys if you find a solo player mid pull, hes gunna die.

      on the same note, 2-3 divers can kill a pve group of 5+ players with no scout in a group dungeon assuming you get them mid pull.


      the system needs a change, more risk, more reward, and more options for counter play IMO is whats needed.
      Ideas like this are, IMO, useless.

      You're just trading the A out for something that'd be basically the same thing, but take 10x as long.

      If I had a scout and got dived I'd just run with my party past mobs with skip gear and use the exit. It'd take longer, the divers would also take longer because they'd also have to skip the mobs to try and get to us and, in the end, we'd all be in the exact same spot.

      Here is a tip for divers: you can actually gank in the open world too. When people A out you can chase them (I know, big surprise here for you guys!) and kill them after the bubble disappears (which requires either time or distance).

      But, as stated by everyone, what divers want is free lot, not PvP content, they just say PvP because they want their argument of banning scouts to sound "fair" while we all know they just want a fight they can't lose with a nice loot in the end (0 risk, high reward). We all know that if they wanted PvP they'd go Arena, GvG, HG, ZvZ or even try to gank in the open world.

      So what we are actually arguing is if we should give people who want 0 risk and high reward the content they want. And I honestly have no idea why we should. I can't understand why we are actually discussing this for so long.
    • iRawr wrote:

      Really? And how it will change PvE group chance vs 9+ divers?
      Again, you asking for free kills and free loot from players who trying get fame, so they finally can become a part of PvP in this game.

      But no, you want to trap em, dont let em escape, force em to fight 4 v 9+ BEFORE they was ready to be real part of real PvP in this game.

      You call this cheese diving, but talk about oh its so hard, no, its not hard to fight 9+ vs pve group. And if its only thing they can do, no one need em in PvP game.

      They are shitter, who not even a content for PvP players, just like usless trash you can step on and make you shoes dirty. Yes, the dirt is a part of world, but no one like it, same as no one need it.
      There are many other scenarios where people get outnumbered and killed. Like a group of 100 fight a group of 20 in the open world. Happens a lot. Obviously the 100 wins every time (unless the 100 in ARCH of course). Should the 20 come here and complain that changes should be made to limit that fight to 20 vs 20? Numbers are always going to be a factor. I got killed 3v1 yesterday in a solo dungeon. Didn't come ask for changes to be made, just accepted that I got killed and went about my playing. No biggie. I still prefer my idea over his, but I think the situation needs some tweaking. You seem content to just allow low fame Scouts to continue being a part of Black Zone Fame Farming. Is that so? You're not going to convince anyone that this is ok (except for those who believe it already). At least I am trying to give some solutions.

      Also, there are other options for people wanting to gain fame without doing Black Zone dungeons. Come on over to the Hardcore Expedition Discord.
    • Loholt wrote:

      Dismadeus wrote:

      iRawr wrote:

      Tabor wrote:

      Things a group running a dungeon can do are below. This assumes a dungeon enemy alert/A out removed compromise is made.

      *As Holly mentioned above leave a few mobs up at entrance lazy divers will not bother checking past the first few pulls. The enemy alert would only happen if non-party individuals enter after you enter so the divers would not be alerted someone is already inside.

      *Once you are alerted as the runners you can leave a few mobs up in front of you to give your group the fight advantage against the divers.

      *You can choose to try to run through mobs and kill final boss fast as that is what would spawn the exit portal (you would not get loot in this case since the chest would not open due to not clearing enough mobs).

      *You should have AoE type abilities already as the running group as will the divers. Therefore the only difference is defensives. If you run some at risk comp without planning for a potential dive that is on you. Mobs are easy to clear.

      The risk to the divers is the runners have a larger group (which is often the case all diving is not excessive numbers). The other risk is often it can take 30 to 40 minutes to even find a dungeon being ran. That is all lost money making opportunity elsewhere.
      Only shitters ask for remove a-out.Risk of bigger group in dungeon?Lol

      Risk of waste of time?

      Ok sure, but you still like x20 reward from the reward of group in dungeon.

      But the have all this risks + divers risk.

      So you ask to reduce risk for divers, who got x20 reward.

      And increase risk for players who need fame farm(new players), who got less reward.


      Why you say something about balance?
      Just say it fair, we want the free items from new players group, we want them no chance to run, we want kill secure.

      Just ask SBI kill all in dungeon right when you enter, and transfer all they gear to your bank.
      This is what you want, so ask about it loud and clear.

      And dont shit us like "we wanna pvp", if you wanna pvp - go 5v5 hellgate.

      There is alot of ppl who have pvp gear and wanna pvp, they will be happy to pvp with you.
      i think being able to A out is a little too safe when combined with a scout but yes you are right, there needs to be more rewards/a better fighting chance for the pve players.
      If you could only leave at the start or end of a dungeon, but were alerted that a group that isnt your party came inside somehow, you would be able to prepare to fight, run past the gankers to the entrance/exit, or skip the remaining adds and leave via the exit at the end.

      its the same as solo dungeons right now, usually it doesnt matter if you have one or 5 guys if you find a solo player mid pull, hes gunna die.

      on the same note, 2-3 divers can kill a pve group of 5+ players with no scout in a group dungeon assuming you get them mid pull.


      the system needs a change, more risk, more reward, and more options for counter play IMO is whats needed.
      Ideas like this are, IMO, useless.
      You're just trading the A out for something that'd be basically the same thing, but take 10x as long.

      If I had a scout and got dived I'd just run with my party past mobs with skip gear and use the exit. It'd take longer, the divers would also take longer because they'd also have to skip the mobs to try and get to us and, in the end, we'd all be in the exact same spot.

      Here is a tip for divers: you can actually gank in the open world too. When people A out you can chase them (I know, big surprise here for you guys!) and kill them after the bubble disappears (which requires either time or distance).

      But, as stated by everyone, what divers want is free lot, not PvP content, they just say PvP because they want their argument of banning scouts to sound "fair" while we all know they just want a fight they can't lose with a nice loot in the end (0 risk, high reward). We all know that if they wanted PvP they'd go Arena, GvG, HG, ZvZ or even try to gank in the open world.

      So what we are actually arguing is if we should give people who want 0 risk and high reward the content they want. And I honestly have no idea why we should. I can't understand why we are actually discussing this for so long.
      were arguing that there should be more risk to both divers, and dungeon runners.

      the system we have now does not incentivize PVP and is far too safe for both the dungeon runner and gankers.

      your comment doesnt do anything, doesnt add to the discussion.

      sure we can gank in the overworld, people do already with blobs of 20+ and also enjoy no risk high reward ganking, witch needs to change as well.

      i also dont understand why we keep giving people (dungeon runners ) high reward and little risk. i also cant understand why this problem of scouts, no risk ganking, and n+1 literally everything that doesnt have a hard player cap .

      i dont understand why people like you think they have anything valuable to contribute when clearly all you want to do is run dungeons with 0 risk and all the reward.
      generic signature
    • Blenfjorn wrote:

      Speaking as someone who is not affected by this either way (because I don't do these dungeons, nor do I dive them), I find it quite comical that both sides have the same exact argument. That being that the other side wants no risk, high reward. XD
      it is pretty funny, its a shame people cant agree that both gankers and dungeon runners should have more risk while having more reward.

      id like to see more opportunity for the dungeon group to fight back against the gankers, rather than get stomped mid pull, or have a scout.

      id like to see gankers learn to fight for loot, instead of going seal clubbing and thinking they are good at the game.

      honestly if most dugneon groups just turned around and fought the gankers, you would kill them all.

      gankers that prefer seal clubbing to actually getting fights are usually terrible at the game and wil die/flee as soon as your dungeon group turns on them.
      generic signature
    • Blenfjorn wrote:

      Speaking as someone who is not affected by this either way (because I don't do these dungeons, nor do I dive them), I find it quite comical that both sides have the same exact argument. That being that the other side wants no risk, high reward. XD
      I am also not run dungeons, and don't dive. But as i know, the dungeon reward is like nothing.

      So argument about dungeon farmers want reward, is fake.
      All they want is fame, to spec for pvp content.
    • iRawr wrote:

      Blenfjorn wrote:

      Speaking as someone who is not affected by this either way (because I don't do these dungeons, nor do I dive them), I find it quite comical that both sides have the same exact argument. That being that the other side wants no risk, high reward. XD
      I am also not run dungeons, and don't dive. But as i know, the dungeon reward is like nothing.
      So argument about dungeon farmers want reward, is fake.
      All they want is fame, to spec for pvp content.
      What are you talking about? Fame is reward... wtf...
    • Dismadeus wrote:

      Loholt wrote:

      Dismadeus wrote:

      iRawr wrote:

      Tabor wrote:

      Things a group running a dungeon can do are below. This assumes a dungeon enemy alert/A out removed compromise is made.

      *As Holly mentioned above leave a few mobs up at entrance lazy divers will not bother checking past the first few pulls. The enemy alert would only happen if non-party individuals enter after you enter so the divers would not be alerted someone is already inside.

      *Once you are alerted as the runners you can leave a few mobs up in front of you to give your group the fight advantage against the divers.

      *You can choose to try to run through mobs and kill final boss fast as that is what would spawn the exit portal (you would not get loot in this case since the chest would not open due to not clearing enough mobs).

      *You should have AoE type abilities already as the running group as will the divers. Therefore the only difference is defensives. If you run some at risk comp without planning for a potential dive that is on you. Mobs are easy to clear.

      The risk to the divers is the runners have a larger group (which is often the case all diving is not excessive numbers). The other risk is often it can take 30 to 40 minutes to even find a dungeon being ran. That is all lost money making opportunity elsewhere.
      Only shitters ask for remove a-out.Risk of bigger group in dungeon?Lol
      Risk of waste of time?

      Ok sure, but you still like x20 reward from the reward of group in dungeon.

      But the have all this risks + divers risk.

      So you ask to reduce risk for divers, who got x20 reward.

      And increase risk for players who need fame farm(new players), who got less reward.


      Why you say something about balance?
      Just say it fair, we want the free items from new players group, we want them no chance to run, we want kill secure.

      Just ask SBI kill all in dungeon right when you enter, and transfer all they gear to your bank.
      This is what you want, so ask about it loud and clear.

      And dont shit us like "we wanna pvp", if you wanna pvp - go 5v5 hellgate.

      There is alot of ppl who have pvp gear and wanna pvp, they will be happy to pvp with you.
      i think being able to A out is a little too safe when combined with a scout but yes you are right, there needs to be more rewards/a better fighting chance for the pve players.If you could only leave at the start or end of a dungeon, but were alerted that a group that isnt your party came inside somehow, you would be able to prepare to fight, run past the gankers to the entrance/exit, or skip the remaining adds and leave via the exit at the end.

      its the same as solo dungeons right now, usually it doesnt matter if you have one or 5 guys if you find a solo player mid pull, hes gunna die.

      on the same note, 2-3 divers can kill a pve group of 5+ players with no scout in a group dungeon assuming you get them mid pull.


      the system needs a change, more risk, more reward, and more options for counter play IMO is whats needed.
      Ideas like this are, IMO, useless.You're just trading the A out for something that'd be basically the same thing, but take 10x as long.

      If I had a scout and got dived I'd just run with my party past mobs with skip gear and use the exit. It'd take longer, the divers would also take longer because they'd also have to skip the mobs to try and get to us and, in the end, we'd all be in the exact same spot.

      Here is a tip for divers: you can actually gank in the open world too. When people A out you can chase them (I know, big surprise here for you guys!) and kill them after the bubble disappears (which requires either time or distance).

      But, as stated by everyone, what divers want is free lot, not PvP content, they just say PvP because they want their argument of banning scouts to sound "fair" while we all know they just want a fight they can't lose with a nice loot in the end (0 risk, high reward). We all know that if they wanted PvP they'd go Arena, GvG, HG, ZvZ or even try to gank in the open world.

      So what we are actually arguing is if we should give people who want 0 risk and high reward the content they want. And I honestly have no idea why we should. I can't understand why we are actually discussing this for so long.
      were arguing that there should be more risk to both divers, and dungeon runners.
      the system we have now does not incentivize PVP and is far too safe for both the dungeon runner and gankers.

      your comment doesnt do anything, doesnt add to the discussion.

      sure we can gank in the overworld, people do already with blobs of 20+ and also enjoy no risk high reward ganking, witch needs to change as well.

      i also dont understand why we keep giving people (dungeon runners ) high reward and little risk. i also cant understand why this problem of scouts, no risk ganking, and n+1 literally everything that doesnt have a hard player cap .

      i dont understand why people like you think they have anything valuable to contribute when clearly all you want to do is run dungeons with 0 risk and all the reward.
      We beg to differ, I think I added a lot to the discussion by saying that the solution presented is not a solution and that divers doesn't have to limit themselves to INSIDE the dungeon only.

      You don't have to get mad at me and start throwing stones just because your solution is poor (and that is MY opinion about it, doesn't mean it is poor to someone else).

      And I speak for myself, but the best drop I've ever got in a T8 blue dg was a 8.3 excepcional bag. And I do a lot of dgs. So I don't really see the "high reward, low risk" aspect because I actually lose silver doing dgs (because of yellow fame).

      Unless you mean getting fame, in which case I agree that, when using scouts, it's a high reward, low risk business.

      And, Idk, I'm starting to train PvP now (GvG and HG, mostly), after I learned a little more and established myself (at least in terms of combat spec). But when I go for dgs, I DON'T WANT PvP content. Period. "But it's a PvP driven game and blah blah blah". No, it's a sandbox game. I play the way I want. I want to farm fame and not get into PvP and so I'll go do that. If scouts let me do it in a safer way, then I'll use scouts (when not aganist the ToS rules)

      And if divers are so eager to have PvP content, well, as stated above, there's plenty of it. PLENTY (open world gank, diving, HG, scrims, Arena, duels, GvGs, ZvZs, ranting in forums...). Just... Jesus... stop crying so much about someone wanting to play a sandbox game without getting jumped 5 times in the same dg by 10 dudes.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Loholt ().