When is it profitable to drop food into buildings? "Reward per 1000 Nutrition" explained.

    • When is it profitable to drop food into buildings? "Reward per 1000 Nutrition" explained.

      Have you ever seen this when you mouse over a building in your city or hideout minimap?



      Did you ever wonder what that means?

      Well, let me tell you:
      • The "Reward" mentioned here is a Silver payout anyone can recieve when they deliver food to a building.
      • Yes, you can get paid from the building-owner for bringing and delivering food to his building! Wow.
      • Let's look into the details.
      If you find a building that has a payout set by the building owner either by looking through your mini-map or by finding the silver-symbol when you walk to a building you can deliver the food and get paid!

      Building with no silver-payout set vs building that has a silver-payout enabled:



      To deliver food into a building you need to walk up to it and click it.

      Then you have to click on the face of the worker you see in the building UI menu.

      Click here:



      This will open an additional menu of the building UI, which looks like this.
      Here you need to scroll down!



      Now you can drag your food from your inventory (or via shift-left click) into the square on the left side and a confirmation box will appear!



      If you are happy with the Silver payout, then you can click on Submit and BOOM, you're rich!

      But now for the hard part!
      • How do you know wether or not the payment is actually making you money?
      • (scroll down tor part#2 in the post below!)
      Bogul#6397 - Merchants of the Mist - Founder & Head of "Management"
    • To understand the next part, you have to know something about buildings and food.

      Food:
      • Crafted foods have a Nutrition Value. You can see it if you have one single food in your inventory and click it.
      • These are different for each type of food.


      Buildings:
      • Buildings and their Silver payouts for "feeding" them can be set to a Silver-payout-value per 1000 Nutrition.
      • Now this is usually where most people are confused and don't understand or give up, because it includes math.
      • But wait, there is one additional factor: buildings have "favorite foods". Below you can see a list of the buildings and their favorite dishes.
      • If you feed a building with its favorite dish, the nutrition it recieves from the food is doubled (x2) !
      buildingfavorite dish
      LumbermillCarrot Soup
      StonemasonBean Salad
      SmelterWheat Soup
      TannerChicken Pie
      WeaverChicken Omelette
      ToolmakerTurnip Salad
      ButcherCabbage Soup
      MillGoose Omelette
      SaddlerGoat Stew
      CookGoose Pie
      AlchemistPork Omelette
      Warrior's ForgeMutton Stew
      Mage's TowerMutton Sandwich
      Hunter's LodgePotato Salad



      Now, after you make a little spreadsheet you can find out the nutrition values for the food like so:



      As an example, if you feed a Lumbermill with Carrot Soup, it would recieve 144 Nutrition per Carrot Soup, but if you fed it with Bean Salad, it would only recieve 77 Nutrition.

      Now if we go back to Silver-payouts, remember these are set up in "Reward per 1000" Nutrition and here the favorite food comes into effect as well.
      Assuming the payout set by the station owner is 2000 Silver per 1000 Nutrition, then you would recieve in our example:

      Lumbermill:
      • 2000 Silver per 1000 Nutrition ; Carrot Soup (favorite food) ; 77 Nutrition ; 77 (Nutrition) * 2 (Silver per Nutrition) * 2 (favorite food) = 308 Silver per Carrot Soup
      • 2000 Silver per 1000 Nutrition ; Bean Salad (not favorite food) ; 77 Nutrition ; 77 * 2 = 154 Silver per Bean Salad
      Now this leads to all kinds of numbers and combinations, especially when you buy the food ingredients from the market to craft food yourself, factoring in focus value or station crafting fees.

      But below you can see a quick cheat sheet of what kind of Reward per Nutrition value corresponds to which theoretical market price, based on calculating with a factor of 2x - assuming favorite food.

      • So for example, if you see a Stonemason, that has a "Reward per 1000 Nutrition" value of 2700 as in our example, that means in effect the owner is paying 416 Silver per Bean Salad.
      • Remember, that this is calculated using a factor of 2x, so if you would feed the Stonemason with anything else (i.e. not his favorite food), your payment would me much lower.


      I hope this information is helpful for you and maybe you can make a quick buck if you see plot owners paying well for food delivery.

      Please let me know, in case you see any errors in the calculations and I will fix them immediately!


      This information is brought to you by the Merchants of the Mist !

      Check out our thread here:
      Bogul#6397 - Merchants of the Mist - Founder & Head of "Management"

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Bogul ().

    • Morgif wrote:

      This is a very underutilized feature specially in the royal cities. You'd be lucky to see a shop that has this enabled. Hope this feature gets polished or rework in a way that it will be viable. I'd imagine good guilds/alliances with working economy in their BZ HOs is already utilizing this feature.
      It is so weird, and has so little to do with the normal lives of any players, that it's not surprising no one understands it. So the only way you can get people on this train, is by doing what Bogul is. Training players in how the game works.

      If you ever think about plots, its just such a simple thing to understand, because you have this thing you care about Silver/Nutrition, that your plot runs on, and the feature displays it that way! But, if you are just trying to sell some soup you made with your wheats, you don't really know if you are getting ripped off or not, because you never had to think about how much T4 Bar that soup can make. So you have sellers stuck thinking about how many silver they can sell a single soup for, but the station is talking about random silver amounts and 1000 nutrition? People's brain's shut down.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Piddle wrote:

      Morgif wrote:

      This is a very underutilized feature specially in the royal cities. You'd be lucky to see a shop that has this enabled. Hope this feature gets polished or rework in a way that it will be viable. I'd imagine good guilds/alliances with working economy in their BZ HOs is already utilizing this feature.
      It is so weird, and has so little to do with the normal lives of any players, that it's not surprising no one understands it. So the only way you can get people on this train, is by doing what Bogul is. Training players in how the game works.
      If you ever think about plots, its just such a simple thing to understand, because you have this thing you care about Silver/Nutrition, that your plot runs on, and the feature displays it that way! But, if you are just trying to sell some soup you made with your wheats, you don't really know if you are getting ripped off or not, because you never had to think about how much T4 Bar that soup can make. So you have sellers stuck thinking about how many silver they can sell a single soup for, but the station is talking about random silver amounts and 1000 nutrition? People's brain's shut down.
      The hard part is probably that you want to have an option for the building to accept all foods, but its too much for the UI to handle.

      Ideally you would probably have to set it manually as a owner, but the displayed output should just show the food with a price next to it. So if a player walks up to it he clicks the building and sees how much silver he gets per Bean Salad or w/e.

      So instead of a drop box, playes who don't have any rights on the buildings wouldn't see all the admin stuff you have to scroll past and just see a list of foods with a payout next to it. Maybe with the favorite food pinned to the top of the list.
      Bogul#6397 - Merchants of the Mist - Founder & Head of "Management"
    • In my perspective there are 2 reasons why this isn't used much, first most plot owners want to squeeze as much profit they can and usually they want to get the cheaper price possible on the silver/nutrition ratio. I remember back everyone was in Caerleon some plot owners used this feature with ridiculous low silver per 1000 nutrition because their only incentive to use this feature was to get the nutrition for cheaper. The second reason has to do with being a hard feature to see. if I always use the same plot to craft, how am I suppose to see which crafting stations have enabled this feature? nobody is going to check all plots every day to track which plots has enable it.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Cidragon ().

    • I did some testing in regards to consuming nutrition when crafting gear.

      Nutrition Consumption Testing

      Resource AmountmtItemTierEnch. LevelItem ValueNutrition ConsumptionIV divided by nutrition consumpionIV divded by res amountnutrition consumption divided by res amount
      32heavy mace404483214.014.01
      32heavy mace419609610.030.03
      32heavy mace421,72816010.854.05
      32heavy mace433,2643529.3102.011
      32heavy mace509608012.030.02.5
      32heavy mace511,98319210.362.06
      32heavy mace523,7764009.4118.012.5
      32heavy mace537,3598328.8230.026
      32heavy mace601,9842089.562.06.5
      32heavy mace614,0314489.0126.014
      32heavy mace627,8728489.3246.026.5
      32heavy mace6315,5511,7289.0486.054
      32heavy mace704,0324489.0126.014
      32heavy mace718,1279288.8254.029
      32heavy mace7216,0641,8088.9502.056.5
      32heavy mace7331,9353,5689.0998.0111.5
      32heavy mace808,1289288.8254.029
      32heavy mace8116,3191,8888.6510.059
      32heavy mace8232,4483,6488.91,014.0114
      32heavy mace8364,7037,2488.92,022.0226.5
      8knight helmet40112814.03.51
      8knight helmet412402410.07.53
      8knight helmet424324010.813.55
      8knight helmet43816889.325.511
      8knight helmet502402012.07.52.5
      Bogul#6397 - Merchants of the Mist - Founder & Head of "Management"

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Bogul ().

    • Bogul wrote:

      I did some testing in regards to consuming nutrition when crafting gear.

      Nutrition Consumption Testing
      For the people that don't know. the nutrition cost per refined resource is the same for refining and crafting. Except for artifacts.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • I have some more interesting math for you:

      (you should adapt this to your own focus per craft costs to get a better idea for your own numbers)

      itemtierenchfocus per craft (max lvl)daily amount (10k focus)
      heavy mace4096104
      heavy mace4117856
      heavy mace4228635
      heavy mace4348721
      heavy mace5017856
      heavy mace5132031
      heavy mace5253819
      heavy mace5392211
      heavy mace6032031
      heavy mace6156718
      heavy mace6297410
      heavy mace631,6876
      heavy mace7056718
      heavy mace7199910
      heavy mace721,7326
      heavy mace733,0153
      heavy mace8099910
      heavy mace811,7546
      heavy mace823,0543
      heavy mace835,3332




      and now move that on to building crafting fees
      • so, if you're crafting 6.1 maces daily as a max spec crafter for a month at a 50% warrior's forge you pay 5,332,011 Silver in fees
      • but if you're crafting 6.1 maces daily as a max spec crafter for a month at a 10% warrior's forge you pay 1,066,402 Silver in fees
      and ofc a shameless self-plug for my business: if you're crafting as an associate at my stations in Caerleon, which cost 1 million Silver per entry into a list, you're paying an effective 20% tax rate per character and much less if you're adding a guild or alliance

      itemtierenchfee per craft: 50%daily feemonthly (30d)fee per craft: 40%daily feemonthly (30d)
      heavy mace401,120116,6673,500,00089693,3332,800,000
      heavy mace412,400134,8314,044,9441,920107,8653,235,955
      heavy mace424,320151,0494,531,4693,456120,8393,625,175
      heavy mace438,160167,5565,026,6946,528134,0454,021,355
      heavy mace502,400134,8314,044,9441,920107,8653,235,955
      heavy mace514,958154,9224,647,6563,966123,9383,718,125
      heavy mace529,440175,4655,263,9417,552140,3724,211,152
      heavy mace5318,398199,5395,986,17114,718159,6314,788,937
      heavy mace604,960155,0004,650,0003,968124,0003,720,000
      heavy mace6110,078177,7345,332,0118,062142,1874,265,608
      heavy mace6219,680202,0536,061,60215,744161,6434,849,281
      heavy mace6338,878230,4536,913,60431,102184,3635,530,883
      heavy mace7010,080177,7785,333,3338,064142,2224,266,667
      heavy mace7120,318203,3786,101,35116,254162,7034,881,081
      heavy mace7240,160231,8716,956,12032,128185,4975,564,896
      heavy mace7379,838264,8017,944,03063,870211,8416,355,224
      heavy mace8020,320203,4036,102,10216,256162,7234,881,682
      heavy mace8140,798232,5976,977,90832,638186,0785,582,326
      heavy mace8281,120265,6197,968,56664,896212,4956,374,853
      heavy mace83161,758303,3149,099,428129,406242,6517,279,542
      itemtierenchfee per craft: 20%daily feemonthly (30d)fee per craft: 10%daily feemonthly (30d)
      heavy mace4044846,6671,400,00022423,333700,000
      heavy mace4196053,9331,617,97848026,966808,989
      heavy mace421,72860,4201,812,58786430,210906,294
      heavy mace433,26467,0232,010,6781,63233,5111,005,339
      heavy mace5096053,9331,617,97848026,966808,989
      heavy mace511,98361,9691,859,06399230,984929,531
      heavy mace523,77670,1862,105,5761,88835,0931,052,788
      heavy mace537,35979,8162,394,4693,68039,9081,197,234
      heavy mace601,98462,0001,860,00099231,000930,000
      heavy mace614,03171,0932,132,8042,01635,5471,066,402
      heavy mace627,87280,8212,424,6413,93640,4111,212,320
      heavy mace6315,55192,1812,765,4427,77646,0911,382,721
      heavy mace704,03271,1112,133,3332,01635,5561,066,667
      heavy mace718,12781,3512,440,5414,06440,6761,220,270
      heavy mace7216,06492,7482,782,4488,03246,3741,391,224
      heavy mace7331,935105,9203,177,61215,96852,9601,588,806
      heavy mace808,12881,3612,440,8414,06440,6811,220,420
      heavy mace8116,31993,0392,791,1638,16046,5191,395,582
      heavy mace8232,448106,2483,187,42616,22453,1241,593,713
      heavy mace8364,703121,3263,639,77132,35260,6631,819,886
      Bogul#6397 - Merchants of the Mist - Founder & Head of "Management"

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Bogul ().

    • one other piece of information that is potentially useful for aspiring cooks and alchemists are the following tables:

      Cook

      itemtierenchnutr. use per craft of (10)tax fee at 20%40%60%80%100%
      wheat soup30215192384576768960
      chicken omelette306556112168224280
      chicken pie306556112168224280
      Turnip Salad40215192384576768960
      Cabbage Soup506505761,1521,7282,3042,880
      Goose Pie50215192384576768960
      Potato Salad606505761,1521,7282,3042,880
      Mutton Stew60215192384576768960
      Mutton Sandwich60190168336504672840
      Pork Omelette705655041,0081,5122,0162,520
      Beef Stew806505761,1521,7282,3042,880
      Beef Sandwich805655041,0081,5122,0162,520




      Alchemist

      itemtierenchnutr. use per craft of (5)tax fee at 20%40%60%80%100%
      Minor Resistance Potion303564128192256320
      Healing Potion401352404807209601,200
      Minor Poison Potion405596192288384480
      Sticky Potion501903366721,0081,3441,680
      Major Healing Potion604858641,7282,5923,4564,320
      Poison Potion602434328641,2961,7282,160
      Major Gigantify Potion706481,1522,3043,4564,6085,760
      Major Resistance Potion708101,4402,8804,3205,7607,200
      Major Poison Potion808101,4402,8804,3205,7607,200
      Invisibility Potion808101,4402,8804,3205,7607,200




      This table lets you calculate the amount of monthly tax you will spend depending on your focus cost.

      It will also let you estimate what taxes are people setting at their stations.

      Lets assume you craft potato salad daily, with a maxed food crafter (163 focus cost per potato salad (x10)), then you can craft about 613 Potato salads daily. (10000 / 163 = 61,34 * 10 = 613,49..)

      At a Cook that charges you a 60% fee, you would pay 1,728 Silver per craft, so 105,992 every time you use up your daily focus (61,34 * 1728). Compare that to a Cook that charges you a 100% fee (2,880 Silver per craft), you would be spending 176,659 Silver a day (61,34 * 2,880).

      A small difference of 70,577 Silver per day, or 2,117,310 a month. Pretty big difference imo.

      As a owner of a cook or alchemist however, you'd likely want to know how much your bare minimum tax rate is to pay for the consumption of food in your station.

      Let's assume you are paying 1500 per Goose Pie and 3000 per Pork Omelette.
      Knowing that Goose give your Cook 612 nutrition per (306 * 2, because of favorite food) and a Pork Omelette gives your Alchemist 1566 (783 * 2) Nutrition per item, you can look at the break-even points there.

      Goose Pie: Market Price: 1500 divided by Nutrition (612) = 2,45 Silver per Nutrition as you base cost.

      Looking at the table above, if someone crafts 10 Potato Salad at your cook it will use up 650 Nutrition or 1592,5 Silver (650 * 2,45).

      So if you set your tax at 40% it charges a player 1,152 for this craft and if you set the tax at 60% it charges a player 1,728. This is why you see cooks and alchemists have higher minium fee's than other stations.

      If we do the same thing for an Alchemist (3000 cost of Pork Pie divided by 1566 = 1,92 Silver cost per Nutrition) and someone crafts 5 Invisbillity potions at your station he will consume 810 Nutrition or 1555,2 Silver.

      So at an Alchemist tax rate of 20% you're below what it would cost to produce or buy the Pork Omelette (1,440) and at 40% (2,880) you are well above that.

      I hope someone finds this helpful. You can of course also calculate the markup you have to consider if you run your own shop etc.

      Please let me know in case i messed up a value and I'll fix it asap. Looking forward to your responses.
      Bogul#6397 - Merchants of the Mist - Founder & Head of "Management"

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Bogul ().