Make Taxing silver bags a option for guilds

    • Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      So there are several ways to answer that really.

      First of all a problem in a discussion like this is that you need to be a officer in a outland guild to grasp the cost picture, and since they rarely post here then these discussions will alsways be incredibly skewed and i dont even know why im trying because 99.99 of the people will just see it as some kind of greed thing more than a economic input.

      For your questions.
      Its based on seasonal budgetting, which means that some expected costs are averages.
      you are also right that its our choice, but you will see that our choices are pretty much the same as any other "real" outland guild.

      Hideout cost.
      We consider hideouts a strategic asset, and to me there is nothing more important in terms of establishing presence. taking down a hideout takes time and effort, and having many is simply a good thing. This also includes establishing travel routes from royal cities to centre zones.
      SBI designed the outlands so transport is required, so obviously logistic routes are covered. This is also the reason that its so hard for smaller og less ambitious guilds to get zones, simply because its our interest to have logistic routes covered even though the zones Arent of interest. If SBI added zones on the other side of the portal, the large alliances wouldnt contest. Anyways its a design thing, and we need to secure logistics lines. Just look at the map, and you see that any center guild has a logistics line from centre.
      We have 11 hideouts, and the budget is one t3 hideout a month. it might and might not be to high, last season we spend a lot more, this season depends on the wars. We are budgetting on having a war.

      Zvz regears.
      This is the biggest financial post, and its a new thing for us. In season 8 we did not run regears, and we learned that its a massive problem for various reasons.
      We had a war for a long time with a superior enemy, until we joined a better alliance ourselves. We have a minimum of 2 CTA's a day for 68 days in a row and we learned that we simply must have a guild logistics and regearing program in order to compete. everyone we have talked with who does this are saying we budget to low, while every else saying its to much :). In the end we choose to listen to those who have tried it before.
      The hardets part about a regear program is the work involved, and note really the money. Its a huge undertaking but you wont live long in the outlands without.
      The game doesnt support this one bit, but you wont last if you dont do it.
      We calculate with 50 lost sets a day, which is very low - but again that is based on having 50% wartime, compared to 95% wartime in season 8.

      Crystal cost.
      The short version is that consumables for crystals are expensive, and our budgetting is based on 2 teams getting to lvl8 crystals and at least 1 team to lvl 9.
      one lvl 8 player needs around 40 million worth of gear, if we expect 10 of those its 400 million divide by 12 weeks which is 33 million a week, sure you dont lose all the gear but it has to be there. And then comes the hundreds of fights. we do around 10 crystal fights a day, thats 70 fights a week and consunables alone are easily a million pr fight if we payed it all. If anything the 35 million a week is low, and likely we spend that in consumables alone.

      I could go on, but essentially we are back to my initial point that people who post here or on reddit simply dont know the cost to operate.a competing outland guild.

      You are right about it being our choice. We decide to play outlands, and we decide to compete. We are obviously getting the money we need, but its an incredibly amount of out of game admin, and my main problem here is simply why SBI design the outlands as they do, while still refusing to design for the guilds who live there.

      I know my posting here only attracts trolls who hate the competing guilds, and its just a lost cause because people dont understand or refuse to understand what is needed to compete.
      My small hope with writing these things is that some day SBI will make the effort af doing a flowchart on guild income contra expenses.
      just charge ur renteres more kekw
    • LordSilva wrote:

      Madhe wrote:

      is there any response to this, I am a newer player but 200 real dollars is kind of punishing for guild operations...
      no one is forced to spend money on the game, if doing it is a player's option, if something is limiting your expansion after a certain level, maybe you are stretching the abilities of the group and you should stop.
      But then there are always those who always want more and are retarded just to the point of stretching, stretching until one day they wake up, and everything they've done goes down the drain.

      It's like earning little, but wanting to eat caviar and ride a Ferrari every day.
      I do not see it this way, there is no way that a guild is going to make that incredible amount of money without the use of real deposit. It is a real intention to make more opinions in game to generate currency or the so called expansion beyond capacity idea is just a figment of imagination. . . look...

      1) No one is able to generate the kind of silver intake without the use of deposits and that moneys that is made can be used to provide for 1-2 items that a guild needs. . .

      2) It is a point of the game to play the content provided and it is including items that are almost unreplaceable and fixing the problem by denial of anothers ability to cope with situation is a failure, consider the game as a whole, there currently is only three options for a guild to generate silver; deposits, silver coins and maybe territorys....

      3) what is the actual point of suggesting a guild do some other content when it is so difficult to actually make progression in the game
    • including; with the fact of how hard progression as a guild is making more options for a guild to get to content is a good thing. . . imagine if their was a large guild taking everything because they generate income available it just makes the content more enjoyable because they could just as easily lose their ability to keep it....


      This situation is improbable as no guild is actually able to make these kinds advances and is improbable but makes for content and it is so great

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Madhe ().

    • If you are speak of a new guild, with new players, yes it is difficult for any guild within that pope to have access to a lot of game content, mainly game content that is occupied by large guilds.
      A new guild has access to little monetary return, especially if its participants are not very active.

      But this is not a flaw in the game, as guilds must search for content according to their abilities and not go looking for something that they cannot guarantee its maintenance.
      If one of these players insists on wanting more than what he wants, it is the same as going to bank and asking for a loan to have something he would not otherwise have. this in the game has consequences in relation to content maintenance.
      These are options, either the player plays financial capabilities or the player plays according to his real wallet!

      The game has increasingly narrowed the differences between new and old guilds, which means that the majority of the old guilds that have refrained from having a lot of resources in the past and thus having a lot of silver, are now having difficulties in maintaining the same status.
      It is the same as a person who was born in a cradle of gold and all his life has lived with everything he wants around him, but from one moment to the next he remains in ruin but continues to keep the appearance that everything is fine and that he still has a lot of money when he is making sacrifices in order to keep up appearances.

      You have a lot of players in this game that have Billions in their characters, there is a lot of money stuck in this game that doesn't circulate simply because those players don't need to circulate it.

      Sinatra and all other players like him (Beta Albion Online Guilds), they are players who know the game perfectly and managed to bring together a good knowledge of its mechanics and especially a good knowledge of how to make silver in the game.
      But most of the problem is that we are talking about a group of players who are already mature, a large part of them no longer needs to do PvE and with that the rate of the guild where they are is affected. The game content that this group of players is involved in is game content that requires a good investment on their part, whether it is an individual investment or an investment by the guild it has to be made.
      Maintaining this constant investment, with an increasingly reduced source of income, makes balance of accounts complicated.
      If you spend 200 million on properties, I destroy some that lower the monetary weight.

      In short, if the source of income is less than the content played, and if this is causing a major imbalance in the accounts, the resolution is simple, or they stop doing that content, or delay the amount of content or simply increase the source of content. performance with game mechanics or real money.

      But one thing is certain, this suggestion is related to the taxation of something that is not taxable, as it is classified as an Item and not as a silver droop. It would be the same as taxing a Bag or a Weapon that dropped from a Mob, and the devs themselves have already indicated it.
    • I do not think that is a fair suggestion, the game is intended to be played as is, and elevating the burden of severely time consuming activitys is something that I find as a good addition to the game.

      Consider that though the game is managed to players where the content is as difficult to do as the preparation, so on the starting of the guild, you cannot do anything of value, to being able to do something of value but it disappears just as if it was not actually available. Its actually as similar to the fact that royal continent has shrunk into 8 different Red Zones, and the only place to be is in the Black Zone/ Outlands... And being able to manage a guild is a strong course to achieving that.

      It is perfectly reasonable to say I am in that group of players that want to gain some benefit of having a guild, and if I manage my guild there should be some overall a benefit. Like easier to manage treasure or a profit. Once we spend money , and I do every month spend money on a premium status, it does not go anywhere else.
    • and this is not even a finished thread the suggestion that someone should just do something else because of the fact that it is suggestable is not a good reason, it is really just a way of avoiding the fact guilds do need a way of elevating the pressure of management.

      The fact is real; we need another way of making income than depending on the people that do not plan to contribute in anyway other than a body count, and it is a real way of making a sure discretion of a guilds man to actual contribute, this could include a major difference in the way of being tax, including of volunteering such obligation to the tax of to be imposed by such players, just making a difference in the opinion does not take away from the opinion of doing such implementations. . . .

      its is really a write off, I could find a general reason for anything else in discretion or I could just make a suggestion that does have in affect on the way that a guild progresses or how management does place. . .

      it is just a bug in the development of sufficiency that was not developed at a earlier stage in the game, and maybe could be a complete improvement for the game, and it something that I believe could help overall in general.

      So I would say, "that it is a something worth approval, considering that fact that it makes itself relevant in development."
    • why are fresh fake ass accounts allowed to make 10 posts in a discussion like this to make it look like *community is concerned to have this feature add3d* (it isn't and ir does not want it) stop argumenting for more efficient RMT with your social media propaganda slaves.
      Im więcej ludzi na ZvZ tym Surfy i Poe będą mniej hajsu chcieli za nie wyjebanie waszej ziemianki. Wojna Polsko Polska AO. Wesołe Ziemniaczki.
    • Lobotimer wrote:

      Maybe just enable auto loot of silver on kills. I go into many places that are covered with silver drops that a speed runner just left behind for the sake of speed. If auto loot for the silver was an option, guilds would make more money, players would make more money, win-win.
      Groups clearing dungeons that want someone to come in after them often leave silver on the ground. It's not without meaning.
      Im więcej ludzi na ZvZ tym Surfy i Poe będą mniej hajsu chcieli za nie wyjebanie waszej ziemianki. Wojna Polsko Polska AO. Wesołe Ziemniaczki.
    • Lobotimer wrote:

      Maybe just enable auto loot of silver on kills. I go into many places that are covered with silver drops that a speed runner just left behind for the sake of speed. If auto loot for the silver was an option, guilds would make more money, players would make more money, win-win.
      There is something that could very well be implemented in the game, whenever a player dies for another player the silver that falls should go directly to the attacking player's guild.
      Thus, the guild Tax becomes PvE Tax with a % of the silver droop and with PvP Tax with 100% of the kill droop.
    • I am in a guild that has re-gears of T8 or equivalent gear, the funds come from ZvZ loot and once a week ganking (with regear). The problem with taxing silver bags to look for income to sustain a "solo guild" lies in how some people would use the tax out of silver bags for more efficient potato farming. I am afraid there is no way to add what you are asking for without giving a gift to the greedy and bad bunch of albion rmt oligarchy.

      You do not need to tax silver bags. Just use loot logger and have 100% of loot looted by your guild members donated. There is no excuse not to make ZvZ loot go to the guild unless you are willing to let your members keep command mammoths and other battle mounts (obviously, you will ask members to return bms looted during zvz to the guild anyway) there is your vast income to sustain regears hope this gives other players the idea that it's not such a big deal to have regear program and taxing bags of silver is unnecessary

      In my view guild is not supposed to get rich out of playing zvz if you are taking small consistent loss while providing regears and asking for the loot from zvz things are in a good place. If Syndic is crying for middleman to in his place argument in favor of taxing silver bags the trash rate changes are doing the job. If other guilds can sustain regear then sun can also do it without silver bag tax ;)

      Large guilds want to have too much and push around their members to have 3+ ZvZ per day then wonder they can not have put together consistent regear. Just play only meaningful ZvZ the "content" is a forced clique with that terrible Cluster Queue and hand-holding.
      Im więcej ludzi na ZvZ tym Surfy i Poe będą mniej hajsu chcieli za nie wyjebanie waszej ziemianki. Wojna Polsko Polska AO. Wesołe Ziemniaczki.

      The post was edited 7 times, last by keyfouyr ().

    • power projection ambitions of a "solo guild" cloud the image of how well the guild is already doing sun should not be on it's way to be one of x power blocks because it's already past being a mere "solo guild" you are aiming to compete with alliances at the expense of members enjoyment of the game even if you say something like they do not have to be in sun if they do not like how we do things (that attitude would suck for many reasons btw.)

      it used to be okay for members to carry the burder of multiple sets per day so how come best solo guild can not handle some regears if it wants to have this many zvzs per day

      if nothing changes you will continue to exist and defend "your land" the way you do aim for cost optimalization and refuse regear to people who do not meet IP requirements if you want savings
      ask members who can afford it not to ask for regear if they do not need it, refuse regear for bloodletters because they are nasty combat looters (you can do many things besides trying to tax more)...


      peace
      Im więcej ludzi na ZvZ tym Surfy i Poe będą mniej hajsu chcieli za nie wyjebanie waszej ziemianki. Wojna Polsko Polska AO. Wesołe Ziemniaczki.
    • You could require your guild members to donate x amount of silver per week to stay in the guild. How they get this silver is up to them, they could gank, sell resources, run dungeons. If those guild members are truly loyal to your guild they would pay up and help it out.

      Doing some math here, 500k a week from 200 player guild is 100mil a week.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by DoomRawrus ().

    • tabooshka wrote:

      keyfouyr wrote:

      so how come best solo guild can not handle some regears if it wants to have this many zvzs per day

      I do not believe it's necessary to pay this much :)

      Optimalize the costs through selection who actually gets a regear. Do not travel 12 maps to interfere in someone else's castles and outposts.

      Limit yourselves to 1-2 instead of 3+ timers, shrink the number of territories to be more reasonable and "s0lo guild" like and there will go your financial problems. You should be burning your guild's res9urces like crqzy if you intend to have as many territories and keep playing as many zvzs.

      Being overly ambitious or greedy...
      Im więcej ludzi na ZvZ tym Surfy i Poe będą mniej hajsu chcieli za nie wyjebanie waszej ziemianki. Wojna Polsko Polska AO. Wesołe Ziemniaczki.
    • And regarding mage raid..

      We tested it,

      Holy on mage robe, 4.1 heal 1h, secret off hand, scholar c, merc boots...

      4.1 1h dagger, torch, hunter chest, merc boots, scholar c..

      U can do these mages fast as 2. Zero issue,

      Or u can do what they always do and call a mage Cta and come with a blob in 8.1

      Of course then it gets expensive..allone the food is more for the zerg than our entire 4.1 sets
    • keyfouyr wrote:

      Limit yourselves to 1-2 instead of 3+ timers,


      Optimalize the costs through selection who actually gets a regear
      selection who actually gets regear, that just sounds like potato farm LOL


      one set is probably around 1mil in total for you t8 equivelant + food/pots cape mount

      So one cta per day with 50 people still needs 25mil income daily(lets say you lose 50% of the time + overcharge) according to you

      Your guild does a zvz once a week with 20 people??




      I believe there are better ways than taxing silver bags, but those ways need to be a part of ingame system

      The post was edited 5 times, last by tabooshka ().

    • Hollywoodi wrote:

      And regarding mage raid..

      We tested it,

      Holy on mage robe, 4.1 heal 1h, secret off hand, scholar c, merc boots...

      4.1 1h dagger, torch, hunter chest, merc boots, scholar c..

      U can do these mages fast as 2. Zero issue,

      Or u can do what they always do and call a mage Cta and come with a blob in 8.1

      Of course then it gets expensive..allone the food is more for the zerg than our entire 4.1 sets
      are you lost? or just like trolling with irrlevant sentences and meta from year 2018
    • tabooshka wrote:

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      And regarding mage raid..

      We tested it,

      Holy on mage robe, 4.1 heal 1h, secret off hand, scholar c, merc boots...

      4.1 1h dagger, torch, hunter chest, merc boots, scholar c..

      U can do these mages fast as 2. Zero issue,

      Or u can do what they always do and call a mage Cta and come with a blob in 8.1

      Of course then it gets expensive..allone the food is more for the zerg than our entire 4.1 sets
      are you lost? or just like trolling with irrlevant sentences and meta from year 2018
      well my friend, I dunno from what which meta is - 1h dagger is quite fresh.

      We killed 14 mages as 2 in 4.1 - 3 days ago..

      Only because u need a Zerg for it doesn't mean other people need more as a group of 2 and 4.1 gear..