Regarding Casinos / Gambling / Games of Chance [Updated May 05]

    • Zalrenic wrote:

      Piddle wrote:

      Zalrenic wrote:

      Talion wrote:

      rule making it clear that gambling and games of chance are not allowed
      SBI will need to rewrite quality reroll mechanic, as it is gambling on a game of chance in its current format.Waging bets on Duels is obviously gambling on a game of skill.
      This feels like a real stretch.By this logic, AO should be forced to get rid of all market activity. Someone could come along and buy a piece of ore, or wood, not intending to use it themselves, but to "speculate" on a change in its value.

      If we want to be pedantic about it, almost any decision made by anyone, at any time, that can be evaluated in terms of money, is gambling.
      in quality rerolls, one of two things can happen: (1) You input money and get nothing. (2) you input money and get a higher quality item... being pedantic isn't required... you are betting silver on the system returning you a higher quality item. For wagers on duels, this is so very obviously straight forward gambling on a game of skill that I don't know how to pretend that it is anything else.
      first of all:


      KroDuK wrote:

      Edit: i got it u guys playing dumb like the third party cheat program thread ... clap
      secondly: there is gaming tournament u pay a price to participate.. you can have 300 players and the winners grab all the money.. if ur trying to tell me this is gambling because of the RNG during the match selection.. clap (Loser attitude, try to be a winner.. u have to make ur own luck)
      This is a competitive pool price.. if anyon bidding on the result this is gambling.. like why do you think professional sport players cannot place bid.. cuz they could affect the LEGAL gamble; the result/rigged

      Third: for the quality nonsens.. u forgot something very important: the skill ability.. u know that thing on ur B (Buffet) with mastery and specialisation? it giving u better odds of quality when u train it, did u know?
      Please... do not pretend its gambling because u have no crafting SKILL

      The post was edited 4 times, last by KroDuK ().

    • Piddle wrote:

      Zalrenic wrote:

      Piddle wrote:

      This feels like a real stretch.By this logic, AO should be forced to get rid of all market activity. Someone could come along and buy a piece of ore, or wood, not intending to use it themselves, but to "speculate" on a change in its value.

      If we want to be pedantic about it, almost any decision made by anyone, at any time, that can be evaluated in terms of money, is gambling.
      in quality rerolls, one of two things can happen: (1) You input money and get nothing. (2) you input money and get a higher quality item... being pedantic isn't required... you are betting silver on the system returning you a higher quality item. For wagers on duels, this is so very obviously straight forward gambling on a game of skill that I don't know how to pretend that it is anything else.
      I am excited to live in Zalrenic world. Where seeds now need to return fixed amounts of crops, because if they don't it is against TOS. Where gathering has to change because having a chance to gather more than a fixed amount of resources is against TOS. Melding materials? These are all time/money gambling, with mechanical payouts.
      The loot charts. Against TOS.

      I am not saying you are wrong. I am just saying it's a dumb distinction to make, comparing the re-roller to 3rd party gambling websites. SBI isn't taking a moral stand against gambling. They are limiting their liability. I suspect the liability of leaving the reroller in the game is either 0, or else very closely approaches it.
      To be very clear, if they had said "third party gambling" instead of just "gambling" .... I wouldn't have pointed it out.
    • KroDuK wrote:

      Third: for the quality nonsens.. u forgot something very important: the skill ability.. u know that thing on ur B (Buffet) with mastery and specialisation? it giving u better odds of quality when u train it, did u know?
      Please... do not pretend its gambling because u have no crafting SKILL
      I think he was talking about quality re roll not crafting ... that's a complete gamble. Zero skill.
      Midgard
      T8 Fibre, Ore, Hide, Wood & Stone Gatherer
      T8 Gathering Gear Crafter
      T8 Bags & Capes Crafter
    • Domainoft wrote:

      Does this effect player created mini-games and fun events if the players don't have to do anything other than show up. "No charging them to participate"

      I guess with that I would include games outside the game also like Streamer raffles and such which are considered "games of chance".

      Would be sad to see these sort of fun activities go....but happy the silver scammers are getting thwacked.

      This is my question as well. I've passed one in Martlock where they did something like a game of chance, where you put down X amount of silver and roll some dice, possibly winning X10 amount. Is this what is being looked at? Or osmething different?

      This is all new ot me
    • What about placing bets on the side towards certain things like a duel or a crystal league fight or a territory battle, if done by consenting sides, and within a controlled/closed system?

      I only ask because my guild does raffles and lotteries to help members earn rewards and silver... we also hold 1v1 duel tournaments and let guildmembers bet on the results.

      Is this at least allowed? Its legit and has been a lot of fun.

      Thanks
    • Talion wrote:

      Hello everyone,

      Gambling is a bit of a tricky topic, one in which nobody can win (pun intended).

      So here’s our stance:
      With the next patch, dropping on May 5th, there will be an explicit rule making it clear that gambling and games of chance are not allowed, to avoid any confusion. However, considering the fact that this kind of activity is considered illegal in certain jurisdictions, we already consider it a violation of our T&C, particularly §13.1 (Users are obliged to…(...)comply with applicable laws and all rights of third parties when using the Services.), and have to step in.

      -Talion
      "considering the fact that this kind of activity is considered illegal in certain jurisdictions, we already consider it a violation of our T&C, particularly §13.1"

      Are you guys really saying that we should comply to all world laws? I hope not, because that would be ridiculous (stretching this a lot, in some jurisdictions being gay is illegal, or there are religious laws, etc. I mean is against the rules to play on ramadan also? or not complying with chinese rules about internet behaviour?)

      However its already questionable that "gambling" with silver is real gambling. If you see this with the perspective of what gambling laws protect, they don't cover using fake money to get fake goods. Even when loot boxes to some people are gambling, ALWAYS involve REAL money. And this isn't the case in ANY chance.

      This is a sandbox, why don't let people have their fake casinos? What is the harm? I don't like them so I don't participate. But if it within a context of silver, items, etc, should be fine. Real money es absolutely another issue, and this is the only thing considered gambling.

      But the MOST worrying thing is "games of chance" are not allowed. What does this even means? I cannot give guild members stuff for participating in guild events / ZvZ / Whatever if I use a random method to assign prizes? Streamers cannot give silver to a random viewer? What HARM does that make?

      Gryffyth:Toma tu arma y síguenos en discord.gg/ktrNXWN

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Neesh ().

    • Neesh wrote:

      Talion wrote:

      Hello everyone,

      Gambling is a bit of a tricky topic, one in which nobody can win (pun intended).

      So here’s our stance:
      With the next patch, dropping on May 5th, there will be an explicit rule making it clear that gambling and games of chance are not allowed, to avoid any confusion. However, considering the fact that this kind of activity is considered illegal in certain jurisdictions, we already consider it a violation of our T&C, particularly §13.1 (Users are obliged to…(...)comply with applicable laws and all rights of third parties when using the Services.), and have to step in.

      -Talion
      "considering the fact that this kind of activity is considered illegal in certain jurisdictions, we already consider it a violation of our T&C, particularly §13.1"
      Are you guys really saying that we should comply to all world laws? I hope not, because that would be ridiculous (stretching this a lot, in some jurisdictions being gay, or there are religious laws, etc. I mean is against the rules to play on ramadan also? or not complying with chinese rules about internet behaviour?)

      However its already questionable that "gambling" with silver is real gambling. If you see this with the perspective of what gambling laws protect, they don't cover using fake money to get fake goods. Even when loot boxes to some people are gambling, ALWAYS involve REAL money. And this isn't the case in ANY chance.

      This is a sandbox, why don't let people have their fake casinos? What is the harm? I don't like them so I don't participate. But if it within a context of silver, items, etc, should be fine. Real money es absolutely another issue, and this is the only thing considered gambling.

      But the MOST worrying thing is "games of chance" are not allowed. What does this even means? I cannot give guild members stuff for participating in guild events / ZvZ / Whatever if I use a random method to assign prizes? Streamers cannot give silver to a random viewer? What HARM does that make?

      LOOL this couldn't be more accurate. SBI didnt think about it.

      Using the "Being illegal in certain jurisdictions" expression to force the whole WORLD to know and abide to their laws is epic ahah.

      I'm now going to study every country rule, in order to know if I'm doing something against their laws at the moment that can get me banned. Maybe I shouldnt be butching cows? Am I allowed to spend the entire day slaughtering people? I've been riding an horse without feeding it, so PETA can come over me right? I cant do a raffle in this game, but I've done it hundred times during school.
    • Fred_the_Barbarian wrote:

      I'm somewhat curious as to why SBI has stepped in now. I distinctly remember Bogul running a casino a while back and no one batted an eye.
      Why im not even surprised, noble can break any rules on Albion.. they only apply them whe the pleb breaking them (when the noble dislike a member of the pleb) ;(
      Everytime i end up on his stream; the albion online official stream;30 sec later, i want to punch a baby, i have to quit (that's how arselicker make me feel when they speak/licking)



      Midgard wrote:

      KroDuK wrote:

      Third: for the quality nonsens.. u forgot something very important: the skill ability.. u know that thing on ur B (Buffet) with mastery and specialisation? it giving u better odds of quality when u train it, did u know?
      Please... do not pretend its gambling because u have no crafting SKILL
      I think he was talking about quality re roll not crafting ... that's a complete gamble. Zero skill.
      He can talk by himself.. but since i got a smaller fish (yes u got baited) i will say GOOD, remove that stupid heresie RNG from artefact to.. assign a price on each of the artefact pieces.. instead doing some RNG bullshit, so we end up buying our artefact instead crafting them cuz we cannot autoproduce them cuz we keeping our artefact mats; not to RNG/GAMBLE but enchant the artefact we bought.. ^^



      Neesh wrote:

      "considering the fact that this kind of activity is considered illegal in certain jurisdictions, we already consider it a violation of our T&C, particularly §13.1"
      Are you guys really saying that we should comply to all world laws? I hope not, because that would be ridiculous (stretching this a lot, in some jurisdictions being gay is illegal, or there are religious laws, etc. I mean is against the rules to play on ramadan also? or not complying with chinese rules about internet behaviour?)
      Even more simple, we could have said this is illegal to kill and steal poeple; the owl concept of this game.. unless the serial killer u can become a gambling addict online.. just look how lootboxes work...


      Neesh wrote:

      However its already questionable that "gambling" with silver is real gambling. If you see this with the perspective of what gambling laws protect, they don't cover using fake money to get fake goods. Even when loot boxes to some people are gambling, ALWAYS involve REAL money. And this isn't the case in ANY chance.
      LOL, ok.. i see where ur going with ur nonsense; should u be banned for gambling? being a casino owner or are u just trying to find reason so SBI backdown once more?
      No worries they just adding a line to the TOS/TOU look for urselves even the third party casino website @ryandro is still InGame taking bids.. This is just PR marketing move.. stop ur none sens; LootBoxes are gambling.. make Albion a game pegi 18 problem solve.. or remove that nasty gambling since we can buy our currency with real money... kool? thx!

      PS: quick before someone call the police :huh:
      PS2: stop thinking they gonna start hunting and banning poeple for gambling games IF they ask @ryandro to close his website that gonna be impressive.. wouldnt surprised me to see a Bogul running another casino later in game without any problem.. let's be real here.. this is SBI


      Neesh wrote:

      This is a sandbox, why don't let people have their fake casinos? What is the harm?
      type: gamble addiction on google.. think about they teenager playing on their mobile phone (since the good PR marketing coincide with the mobile launch.. right?)
      Or i'm gonna have to ask again @Talion what have changed today.. u said u have to step in today? what is different from may 2019 or when bogul was running a casino?


      Neesh wrote:

      I don't like them so I don't participate. But if it within a context of silver, items, etc, should be fine. Real money es absolutely another issue, and this is the only thing considered gambling.
      U can buy ur silver with real money, why u saying this is another issue.. Cuz in fact we can say going on a PvP zone is a gamble since u doing a risky action for more rewards.. this is a kind of gamble (that testing ur skills or ur luck cuz what can u do 1vs30).. but not the kind that create bad addiction; like the gambling addiction.. u can enjoy the boosts of adrenaline but the bad addiction is not the boost itself but the fact someone could buy 100$ of gold to be like let'S gamble it and try to make it a 1000$ dollars worth of gold by throwing dices


      Neesh wrote:

      But the MOST worrying thing is "games of chance" are not allowed. What does this even means?
      Games of chance.. go in a casino, someone already answer that on the thread; u should try to read it..


      Neesh wrote:

      I cannot give guild members stuff for participating in guild events / ZvZ / Whatever if I use a random method to assign prizes?
      You got me, u were trolling right? :(

      Joke aside try not to give a dagger to healer or bow to tank.. i understand ur using gambling method (selling cheap ticket to win valuable RNG piece of equipment before ZvZ)
      Seirously, this is not cool they already paying taxes.. ur just like a governement that splitting the taxes into his departement; justice, health, small business.. maybe u just stop using dice for doing that this is not serious even for a forum troll.. and stop selling them ticket to win better budget for their goals

      Still this is not gambling it just shows ur lack of skill being a good leader, taking the right decision on the military supply side demand reflexion not RNG nor gambling; make sure the best got the best.. and do not place a jet fighter pilot in a submarine using ur dice after selling them tickets..

      The post was edited 6 times, last by KroDuK ().

    • KroDuK wrote:

      Neesh wrote:

      I cannot give guild members stuff for participating in guild events / ZvZ / Whatever if I use a random method to assign prizes?
      You got me, u were trolling right? :(
      Joke aside try not to give a dagger to healer or bow to tank.. i understand ur using gambling method (selling cheap ticket to win valuable RNG piece of equipment before ZvZ)
      Seirously, this is not cool they already paying taxes.. ur just like a governement that splitting the taxes into his departement; justice, health, small business.. maybe u just stop using dice for doing that this is not serious even for a forum troll.. and stop selling them ticket to win better budget for their goals

      Still this is not gambling it just shows ur lack of skill being a good leader, taking the right decision on the military supply side demand reflexion not RNG nor gambling; make sure the best got the best.. and do not place a jet fighter pilot in a submarine using ur dice after selling them tickets..
      Yeah I don't do any of that, next time try to give your opinion without attacking me personally. Thanks for the advice of the cheap tickets though!

      Gryffyth:Toma tu arma y síguenos en discord.gg/ktrNXWN
    • Fred_the_Barbarian wrote:

      I'm somewhat curious as to why SBI has stepped in now. I distinctly remember Bogul running a casino a while back and no one batted an eye.
      Part of my initial motivation was to get to the result we finally have now. But yeah, it took a while ..

      I have since deleted the discord and actually haven't operated that for a good year I think?
      Bogul#6397 - Merchants of the Mist - Founder & Head of "Management"
    • Talion wrote:

      Hello everyone,

      Gambling is a bit of a tricky topic, one in which nobody can win (pun intended).

      So here’s our stance:
      With the next patch, dropping on May 5th, there will be an explicit rule making it clear that gambling and games of chance are not allowed, to avoid any confusion. However, considering the fact that this kind of activity is considered illegal in certain jurisdictions, we already consider it a violation of our T&C, particularly §13.1 (Users are obliged to…(...)comply with applicable laws and all rights of third parties when using the Services.), and have to step in.

      -Talion
      That's sound funny to me, I don't like players gambling but, when I've reported the player BinaryBR that stolen some players of guild after Queen patch, using free move island from carleon to real cities. I received that answer:

      Source Code

      1. Hi there,
      2. Thanks for writing in.
      3. As this is a sandbox-style game, players are permitted to scam other players as long as they are not exploiting game mechanics in order to do so.
      4. ?????? | Customer Care Agent | support@albiononline.com
      5. Albion Online - Craft. Trade. Conquer.
      So, whats changed for now?
    • Georg51 wrote:

      What about placing bets on the side towards certain things like a duel or a crystal league fight or a territory battle, if done by consenting sides, and within a controlled/closed system?

      I only ask because my guild does raffles and lotteries to help members earn rewards and silver... we also hold 1v1 duel tournaments and let guildmembers bet on the results.

      Is this at least allowed? Its legit and has been a lot of fun.

      Thanks
      The key question here is whether these things can be considered "normal/typical" in-game activities or whether they go beyond that.

      The real world gives us good analogies here: A school raffle with some prizes to raise money for a new piano for the school? That's fine. Somebody building a business that tries to use "school raffles" as a loophole to essentially run a regular lottery and turn a profit? Not okay. Some criteria to consider when looking at these things: i) what's the scale of it? ii) is it strictly between in-game friends or within a clearly defined social circle? iii) is it a regular activity or just happens now and then? iv) is it marketed in-game or out of game? Is it "commercial" in that sense? iv) do the people who organize it seek to turn a profit with it?

      Based on these criteria, it is possible to clearly draw the line between what's fine and what is not in 95% of the cases. On the fringe cases, a judgement call will have to be made. In that case, you can always ask our customer service prior to rolling anything out to check whether the idea that you have is okay or not.
    • I did read it, twice even.

      I completely support this gambling taken down..

      But if I read through this and think about something hypothetical:

      Someone creates a Killboard bot, that reports for discord Albion in game kills, gives me "virtual benefits". These benefits might be even so strong that people pay RL money for these virtual benefits, aka documented and graphically pushed kill messages.. would that not break these somehow, too?

      Not speaking or thinking of any existing things, pure hypothetical.
      And if something like this would exist, it is pure coincidence and not ment to point at domething
    • Talion wrote:

      ... and you cannot pay in-game currency/items/etc for real world stuff. This covers goods and services.
      ...
      • Giving a guild member 1 million silver for his time to deliver food to a hideout?
      • Giving a guild member a subsidiary payment to fund his premium through Silver for spending 80% of his "game-time" recruiting members to the guild and talking to people on Discord?
      • Giving a guild member 1 million silver for his time spent making and managing the guild discord?
      • Giving a guild member 1 million silver for his time spent making the guild logo that is used on a website that has ads enabled?
      • Giving a random Albion player 1 million silver to create / host a market / killboard bot for you? (or hidden through a kickback %)
      • Giving a random Albion player 1 million silver to make an overlay for your twitch channel that you play Albion on?


      Mind clarifying these usecases?

      @Talion
      Bogul#6397 - Merchants of the Mist - Founder & Head of "Management"

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Bogul ().