Regarding Casinos / Gambling / Games of Chance [Updated May 05]

    • NagyMedve wrote:

      Can you add some option in-town activities? Maybe players can build house with some gaming table. It can be blackjack, poker or boardgame table. When a player enter they have to pay a entry fee or pay the % of the winning reward when leaving.
      If you ban a activity then give a another option...
      Things like this, have been said a couple times now.

      The thing is. Putting gambling directly into the game, rather that allowing 3rd party gambling, doesn't change this fact. The problem isn't people getting scammed. The problem is that gambling laws are pervasive, and esoteric, so SBI may be open to liability in any and every jurisdiction they have players.

      So it's really a no brainer. No gambling allowed is a nearly fool proof answer to the problem. It doesn't actually stop gambling, but you can't create a huge public organization devoted to fleecing people. Which seems like it is good enough, to me.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • KroDuK wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      I mostly agree, but there's a thin line that is way too gray atm.And the issue with you example, it's a % so the bigger your sample size is, the higher the chance that you have the "true" value of it due to how % works.
      Usually i would say ur right, but here the algorythm look rigged cuz of the lack of talent in maths from the dev.. here let me explain you why with a small exemple...
      I have a hat with numbers 1 to 300... you withdraw the number 297.. i replace it in the hat.. in french we call that boleal formula; methematicly u have less chance to withdraw the numbers 297 before the 299 others numbers,, we agree right? well if the algorythm doesnt take that in consideration (IT DOES NOT) it look rigged cuz in fact u still gonna have 1 chance of 300 numbers to withdraw the same 297 numbers not less without the boleal formula into the algorythm

      edit: do not matter the pool number u take 45 square or 45k square.. u cannot autoproduce urself with focusing ur plants/herbs 50%+1 ur gonna end up buying more seed anyway.. cuz this is rigged (intentionally or not.. the 50%+1 what ever pool u pick aint working at the end, when mathematicly it should be working with the number they giving us its 50/50 but in fact... nope)

      (sry if it's not clear i speak french i did write this real fast/hvnt look for better spelling on google, but u should be able to got my point here)


      For poeple being sub nope.. they already receive something for getting sub.. u could say this is favoritism like if the sub user receive more ticket that the free loader.. if u have a giveaway sub only.. pretty sure twitch TOS could explain it better than me...

      The dueling this is not RNG.. if we fight each other for 500k.. this is a prize pool competition (like the season reward for the Big alliance Zone).. BUT if you and I not fighting and taking bets on two fighter this is gambling since we're not part of the competitive pool price.. not sure if im clear here to ?

      For the fact everything can be bought in silver and u can buy silver with gold and gold with ur real money; this is why i said in the other thread.. usually i like playing dice game/ bidding on my Sandbox games... but since SBI is selling currency any form of gamble games; InGame are NASTY to me
      I get your point!
      I didn't really know for the seed example, thought the maths were right, but never got into that market that much tbh.
      Regarding dueling, I do disagree with you since it is betting on you winning the fight. This is proven to be an effective way to make silver when high specs and using overgear while standing naked. you know what the other plays so you can counter gear them in that 10secs which makes the fight one sided. It is cheesing a mechanic that actually gives an unfair advantage to one of the players.
      It might not be part of it but idk, feels weird that it's called a bet then.

      And yeah for the sub thing, that was stretching it as far as possible. the reason of this is just to actually have them answer some of the points made, how far are they gonna go and what does it apply to. Like a streamer doing the trash 4 cash thing on twitch is kinda hilarious imo, now he won't be able to do it. It was gambling but actually using 100% game mechanics for the trash rates.
      That kind of shit needs to be taken into consideration to which extent do you allow or disallow that kind of "gameplay" experience.

      And if you prefer to reply in french, I'll understand all of it if it's easier for you!
    • Farrchie wrote:

      I am surprised that SBI responded this quickly, to be honest I thought you will let it slide like evetything else.
      I only spent 30 second to find a forum post in may 2019 named Albion Casino, 3 pages thread.. the gambling is just out of controls at moment.. best i can say is better later than never,, but in fact they only adding a line on the TOS admitting the gamblers already breaking their laws (have u seen any of the gambler sanction? nope..)

      This is just a PR marketing move.. nothing more ;(



      Deathskills wrote:

      Regarding dueling, I do disagree with you since it is betting on you winning the fight. This is proven to be an effective way to make silver when high specs and using overgear while standing naked. you know what the other plays so you can counter gear them in that 10secs which makes the fight one sided. It is cheesing a mechanic that actually gives an unfair advantage to one of the players.
      It might not be part of it but idk, feels weird that it's called a bet then.

      And if you prefer to reply in french, I'll understand all of it if it's easier for you!
      Bien franchement meme en francais, mon probleme c'est plus l'écriture le construction de phrase.. pour parler c'est autre chose (j'ai un secondaire 4/ sous eduqué (edit: mais j'étais quand meme en douance 90%+ moyenne général) et avant l'age de 13 j'ai fait plusieurs pays, oralement j'comprenais 4 langues mais j'té capable d'écrire correctement aucune d'elle) -.-

      Tout ca pour dire; Salut, sinon tu parles du scam toi la.. perso j'ai été tellement decu quand j'ai vue un mec Parzivaal dire sur le CC franco: Voler un coffre de guilde//scam est pas punie (avec son tag de modo)
      Perso j'comprends c'est un petit studio.. mais voir ca de la part d'un modo.. ca revient a l'encourager.. Faites vous pas confiance, allez voler les guilde adverse sur vos alt! bonjour la bonne entente et la commu de beta cucks

      J'peux comprendre que le scam est pas tjrs punie surtout la fait se soit un petit studio, mais ya des moyen de le limité et surtout de pas l'encourager (genre apres avoir accepter le duel; plus moyen de swap gears) comme ici le post en may 2019 Albion Casino.. un an plus part le mec arrive (talion) pour dire.. c'est deja illegal faut intervenir (ya quoi qui a chang. depuis may 2019? les menaces d'Action en justice!?)... meme si pas clairement spécifier dans le TOS.. parce que le probleme de gambling est devenue hors de controle due au fait qu'ils ont encourager la chose par leur inaction passé.. au moins ya pas de CM/GM/MODO sur se post de may 2019 qui dit: le gamble est pas punie (l'encourageant encore plus que part l'inaction)

      Bref, have a good one :*

      The post was edited 5 times, last by KroDuK ().

    • I would really like to know in how far there is going to be consequences to hosting or participating or advertising gambeling events and what exactly the differentiations are between gambling and give-aways and so on, it would be great to have some clearity on that
      [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/582462844394668052/687296660522401857/dragon_2.png[/img]
    • Nesnes wrote:

      I would really like to know in how far there is going to be consequences to hosting or participating or advertising gambeling events and what exactly the differentiations are between gambling and give-aways and so on, it would be great to have some clearity on that
      There are instances of people rmting for amounts less than 10m silver who get banned for 200 years, how should this be any different. Albioncasinocom has been scamming people, literally banning everyone who tries to withdraw saying they're getting flagged by the system. You know how they inspect "the flags" literally manually just check if the person hit big and it's abusing.

      These site owners need to be sanctioned in the same way RMT does
    • Nesnes wrote:

      I would really like to know in how far there is going to be consequences to hosting or participating or advertising gambeling events and what exactly the differentiations are between gambling and give-aways and so on, it would be great to have some clearity on that
      I'll give you an example; On Ultima Online i was doing treasure hunting for the fun of it.. i was doing 10 hunt.. i was keeping only one chest (was testing my luck)

      with the 9 others i was going at Haven city (newbie area) i was sitting at bank asking newb to give me a number 1-30.. the 9 chest had a preselected numbers.. (i was giving away 9 chest to noob unopen chest) They were happy.. when they was not happy cuz the chest was locked.. i was charging them few silver to lockpick it.. (since they was like :cursing: u giving me something locked.. to prove them it was brand new i did not gave my crap loots) Not even a scam i was charging like 5% of the value of the chest to these ungrateful ... a little something to teach them to be nice...

      HERE GAMBLING; i have my 9 chest i'm selling 30 tickets, doing a withdraw for winner.. even if im losing money it is gambling for me the fact the casino (me) would lose or win money don't even matter to me cuz this is gambling.. like we know flipping a coin it's 50/50 this is still gambling even if not rigged since u pay a fee to a RNG chance of winning more than ur fee.. this is crystal clear i mean c'mon guys ||

      Edit: i got it u guys playing dumb like the trhid party cheat program thread earlier (when everyone was linking thing like radar overlay on the post and CM took 2-3 days to delete them before closing the thread instead taking actions since u guys broke the TOS using and sharing cheat engines links on forums); hoping the CM closing this thread telling you it's illegal BUT come ask CM on support in private she'll give u permission to break the TOS one by one with gambling activities, since it's to much works to dealt the prob!?.. clap

      Here she cannot give u the perm to break the LAW, so stop plz..

      The post was edited 13 times, last by KroDuK ().

    • Guilefulwolf wrote:

      Why everyone here act like if we could be forced to gamble? i didnt even know there was such thing in the game because I DIDNT LOOK FOR IT.

      If u acept to gamble with a stranger in a non controlled plataform it is obvius that there is a high risk of being a scam and if anyone gets scammed that is only because of his/her own stupidity.
      Why there is a notice on ur bottle of shampoo; do not drink it.. if u buy a produce to clean ur hair why would you drink it ?
    • Deathskills wrote:

      Regarding dueling, I do disagree with you since it is betting on you winning the fight. This is proven to be an effective way to make silver when high specs and using overgear while standing naked. you know what the other plays so you can counter gear them in that 10secs which makes the fight one sided. It is cheesing a mechanic that actually gives an unfair advantage to one of the players.
      It might not be part of it but idk, feels weird that it's called a bet then.
      Firstly, you're referring to the duel scam. That is a completely different example, it just uses the same mechanics.

      Duel-scams rely on newer players not knowing mechanics and LYING to them by advertising free silver through a duel. They believe they're getting free money by someone who's being generous/quitting the game for example, and often don't even know they themselves would lose that equivalent value of silver. The game dis-allows gear swaps once a duel has started, so most players assume that accepting will lock the other player into a naked setup. It only works because the game is inconsistent on its' rules about gear locking, and the adrenaline a new player gets from getting "free money" makes them less cautious. That's what you're referring to. It has no bearing on gambling or the actual duel wager mechanic.

      The duel wager mechanic itself is *not* gambling in any way. As another post had mentioned, it's a game of skill, not chance. When used the way it's intended, it's saying "I can beat you, and i'll give you x amount of money if I'm wrong, or you give me x amount of money if I'm right." It's a challenge, no different than groups entering a hellgate. They're both agreeing to a battle where one will be the victor for a net gain. Hellgates being slightly more wildcard since you have no idea what you're facing. But that's the mechanic of a Hellgate. A duel immediately locks gear, so it's supposed to be a 1 on 1 with current setups to decide who is stronger.
    • Azlen wrote:

      duel wager mechanic itself is *not* gambling in any way
      Wager: Noun
      1. something risked or staked on an uncertain event; bet: to place a wager on a soccer match.
      2. the act of betting.
      3. the subject or terms of a bet.

      If there are bets, it's obviously gambling.

      Talion wrote:

      rule making it clear that gambling and games of chance are not allowed
      SBI will need to rewrite quality reroll mechanic, as it is gambling on a game of chance in its current format.
      Waging bets on Duels is obviously gambling on a game of skill.
    • Zalrenic wrote:

      Talion wrote:

      rule making it clear that gambling and games of chance are not allowed
      SBI will need to rewrite quality reroll mechanic, as it is gambling on a game of chance in its current format.Waging bets on Duels is obviously gambling on a game of skill.
      This feels like a real stretch.

      By this logic, AO should be forced to get rid of all market activity. Someone could come along and buy a piece of ore, or wood, not intending to use it themselves, but to "speculate" on a change in its value.

      If we want to be pedantic about it, almost any decision made by anyone, at any time, that can be evaluated in terms of money, is gambling.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Azlen wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Regarding dueling, I do disagree with you since it is betting on you winning the fight. This is proven to be an effective way to make silver when high specs and using overgear while standing naked. you know what the other plays so you can counter gear them in that 10secs which makes the fight one sided. It is cheesing a mechanic that actually gives an unfair advantage to one of the players.
      It might not be part of it but idk, feels weird that it's called a bet then.
      Firstly, you're referring to the duel scam. That is a completely different example, it just uses the same mechanics.
      Duel-scams rely on newer players not knowing mechanics and LYING to them by advertising free silver through a duel. They believe they're getting free money by someone who's being generous/quitting the game for example, and often don't even know they themselves would lose that equivalent value of silver. The game dis-allows gear swaps once a duel has started, so most players assume that accepting will lock the other player into a naked setup. It only works because the game is inconsistent on its' rules about gear locking, and the adrenaline a new player gets from getting "free money" makes them less cautious. That's what you're referring to. It has no bearing on gambling or the actual duel wager mechanic.

      The duel wager mechanic itself is *not* gambling in any way. As another post had mentioned, it's a game of skill, not chance. When used the way it's intended, it's saying "I can beat you, and i'll give you x amount of money if I'm wrong, or you give me x amount of money if I'm right." It's a challenge, no different than groups entering a hellgate. They're both agreeing to a battle where one will be the victor for a net gain. Hellgates being slightly more wildcard since you have no idea what you're facing. But that's the mechanic of a Hellgate. A duel immediately locks gear, so it's supposed to be a 1 on 1 with current setups to decide who is stronger.
      You call it a scam while I call it that he has the house edge to counter you. It is a form of gambling, for the person that doesn't what gear he has in his inventory. just lock gear properly so if a duel is launched naked, it aint a gamble on what tier of gear he has and what type. So The issue with the duel is gear ain't locked if nothing is equipped when it should be. Hence why I see it as gambling and the naked as being the "casino" which has the edge.
    • Piddle wrote:

      Zalrenic wrote:

      Talion wrote:

      rule making it clear that gambling and games of chance are not allowed
      SBI will need to rewrite quality reroll mechanic, as it is gambling on a game of chance in its current format.Waging bets on Duels is obviously gambling on a game of skill.
      This feels like a real stretch.
      By this logic, AO should be forced to get rid of all market activity. Someone could come along and buy a piece of ore, or wood, not intending to use it themselves, but to "speculate" on a change in its value.

      If we want to be pedantic about it, almost any decision made by anyone, at any time, that can be evaluated in terms of money, is gambling.
      in quality rerolls, one of two things can happen: (1) You input money and get nothing. (2) you input money and get a higher quality item... being pedantic isn't required... you are betting silver on the system returning you a higher quality item. For wagers on duels, this is so very obviously straight forward gambling on a game of skill that I don't know how to pretend that it is anything else.
    • Zalrenic wrote:

      Piddle wrote:

      This feels like a real stretch.By this logic, AO should be forced to get rid of all market activity. Someone could come along and buy a piece of ore, or wood, not intending to use it themselves, but to "speculate" on a change in its value.

      If we want to be pedantic about it, almost any decision made by anyone, at any time, that can be evaluated in terms of money, is gambling.
      in quality rerolls, one of two things can happen: (1) You input money and get nothing. (2) you input money and get a higher quality item... being pedantic isn't required... you are betting silver on the system returning you a higher quality item. For wagers on duels, this is so very obviously straight forward gambling on a game of skill that I don't know how to pretend that it is anything else.
      I am excited to live in Zalrenic world. Where seeds now need to return fixed amounts of crops, because if they don't it is against TOS. Where gathering has to change because having a chance to gather more than a fixed amount of resources is against TOS. Melding materials? These are all time/money gambling, with mechanical payouts.

      The loot charts. Against TOS.

      I am not saying you are wrong. I am just saying it's a dumb distinction to make, comparing the re-roller to 3rd party gambling websites. SBI isn't taking a moral stand against gambling. They are limiting their liability. I suspect the liability of leaving the reroller in the game is either 0, or else very closely approaches it.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Hi owner of the disputed casino service/website here,


      Just want to reply to above circle-jerk: as a game developer SBI is, you can't really remove any RnG, life is full with RnG, you guys are taking it way too far lmao, you could even say that a power cut making you lagout and lose your shit to gankers is RnG. The difference is that when you roll some artifacts or relics randomly to a random artifact in-game (and what SBI is trying to say here with upcoming ToS changes) opposed to external services is that: 1. it's their assets and game 2. they control the odds, which are the same fairly to any random player without discrimination 3. it is such a small part and not the main focus of the game, which mainly provides entertainment content to it's players. But in perspective you can say anything's gambling on any MMO/game, rng is just what makes you go out of your chair on that rare loot in a dungeon, or if the guy you killed's mammoth will trash or not, and so on - but there is a reason why law doesn't require World of Warcraft, Albion Online etc. to have a regulated casino license.

      However I would support (and what our external service was really born out of) is to finetune the duel system that is currently in place, what would be a nice (and rather simple) idea is locking both parties equipment upon requesting, show both duelist's equipment to each other and include the stake silver amount clearly (with IP, possibly a option to avg/balance IP), where then both players can review the duel's rules, equipment and then accept the terms and duel it out. This way people can duel fairly, with the weapons/equipment they both agree on and the community itself can build fun equipment combo's for duel's from there. This also would make way from any complete RNG and also will prevent the current dueling scams going rampant in market/bank's and will remove the need for any external services (cause for sure there will be some underground discord gambling servers even after this upcoming change).

      Because as you see, our little external service have over 830+ users, 100+ users daily, and have over 25 million wagered siphoned energy on the website to as of now 159769 individual games in only 1.5 week of offering service, so there is a portion that would love to see a good staking/duel system in-game, regardless of course this is minor implementation and ofcourse content updates should have priority, but if you guys have any left over time, please consider to implement a safe, fair and simple duel system.

      Regarding these new upcoming ToS changes:
      Our external service/website will comply with these ToS changes on Tuesday (and any upcoming ones) and remove game of chance games to skillbased multiplayer minigames, also will rebrand also to not use albion's title in the domain. Upon sbi's direct request we will also cease completely, as we always informed to sbi. We do not RMT, we merely doing this to pass time and create a project for those that actually do like to stake a little bit - we will never go underground, become sketchy and actually fuck over the game that we all so much love but other services will flourish underground. Where there is a need there will be supply, it won't be us but there will be sketch RMT'ers popping up to take over the gap that actually do want to gain real $$ profit from sbi's assets.

      To people saying "if you want to gamble to a real casino", is the very reason why people rather do it with some in-game currency as entertainment opposed to losing actual real $ to casino's that actually could impact their rl life while people jst wanting to have a bit of fun with your friends after a zvz or when to kill some time till the next crystal gvg.

      The post was edited 8 times, last by ryandro ().

    • You know how you fix all this you just tell players to be wary as the first option since you know this is meant to be a mmorpg sandbox and to not to give them money and if you do it is at your own risk much like those accounts begging for silver in lymhurst that are dancing naked. Second option make a system in which players can bet money in game since you are ripping ideas left and right from eve make a hypernet relay raffle system. Issue is solved by players money/items going to a pot players buy slots for a chance to win and place in it Carleon to give that city a purpose and its fitting given what it is. Just saying if you are stupid enough to fall for these scams then you are stupid enough to fall for silver beggars or duel scams so you probably don't deserve that carebear wealth you acquired.
    • Deathskills wrote:

      Cyrux wrote:

      there is some questionable grey area here such as lottery style games that are internal. For say giving away prizes from combat loot and other means. Players can buy in to win various prizes everyone wins but maybe not always the cost of what they put in? Is that still going to be considered gambling by this new rule set. Also this is not ran by any bot all done manual
      This rules would technically kill every hg streamers that "giveaway" part of the loot they get from hg. Since the loot is not known in advance at the claiming moment, it is a gamble of how much profit they'll get out of that. Feels pretty rush as a TOS rule since there is obvious underlying issues that would come from this.
      Would agree with you makes wonder cause I run a internal lottery style system for our guild and everyone loves it but according to these rule many games that we play are now forbidden with this blanket toss change. Curious to see what sbi has to say about this.
    • Cyrux wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Cyrux wrote:

      there is some questionable grey area here such as lottery style games that are internal. For say giving away prizes from combat loot and other means. Players can buy in to win various prizes everyone wins but maybe not always the cost of what they put in? Is that still going to be considered gambling by this new rule set. Also this is not ran by any bot all done manual
      This rules would technically kill every hg streamers that "giveaway" part of the loot they get from hg. Since the loot is not known in advance at the claiming moment, it is a gamble of how much profit they'll get out of that. Feels pretty rush as a TOS rule since there is obvious underlying issues that would come from this.
      Would agree with you makes wonder cause I run a internal lottery style system for our guild and everyone loves it but according to these rule many games that we play are now forbidden with this blanket toss change. Curious to see what sbi has to say about this.


      I think that would be fine (but I'm just guessing), I think the main goal of SBI with these changes is to minimize bad PR for their game that comes with scamusations and not to limit community-based little contests among friends/guild, opposed to services that are setup with a main goal of rng/lottery/casino games and nothing else.

      They have affiliation with german pirate party, which you can tell as they are very lenient to players and their rules - most of disputed services would've been closed from the get go in other games.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by ryandro ().