Regarding Casinos / Gambling / Games of Chance [Updated May 05]

    • Regarding Casinos / Gambling / Games of Chance [Updated May 05]

      Hello everyone,

      Gambling is a bit of a tricky topic, one in which nobody can win (pun intended).

      So here’s our stance:
      With the next patch, dropping on May 5th, there will be an explicit rule making it clear that gambling and games of chance are not allowed, to avoid any confusion. However, considering the fact that this kind of activity is considered illegal in certain jurisdictions, we already consider it a violation of our T&C, particularly §13.1 (Users are obliged to…(...)comply with applicable laws and all rights of third parties when using the Services.), and have to step in.

      Addendum May 05:

      As a follow up to the above statement, some players have asked us whether someone could get around the “no gambling” restrictions by turning their games into “games of skill” instead of chance.

      First of all, there are many games that contain chance and skill elements. If these games are run in a professional manner and targeted at the wider community, in particular if we suspect that they are an attempt to work-around the no gambling provision, we would absolutely consider them to be in violation.

      More importantly, please note that the definition of RMT plays an important role in this as well:

      4.5.1 Users are prohibited from selling, purchasing, renting, leasing, offering, accepting, disseminating or copying Virtual Benefits, including Virtual Currency, within and/or outside the Game - in whatever form – to/from third parties unless expressly permitted by these Terms and Conditions or the Game Rules. An in game-system provided by the Game or by Sandbox Interactive to trade Virtual Benefits of the Game constitutes such an exception. In this case, the transfer of Virtual Benefits from one User to the other is only permitted if the transfer takes place - no matter if within or outside the Game – either without any form of consideration or with consideration if the consideration consists solely of Virtual Property or Virtual Currency of the Game and such is transferred within the Game itself or via a function provided by the Game. The acquisition of Virtual Benefits in exchange for any form of consideration other than Virtual Property or Virtual Currency of the Game is expressly prohibited.

      What this clause does, effectively, is putting a barrier between the in-game economy and the real world economy. You cannot pay real cash for in-game stuff, and you cannot pay in-game currency/items/etc for real world stuff. This covers goods and services. This means that if somebody would like to offer certain types of games to the Albion community - even if those would be pure games of skill such as chess - he could not charge any sort of direct or hidden in-game or out of game fee for this.

      Finally, per the Terms and Conditions, it is also not allowed for users to “advertise services or products provided by themselves or third parties, in particular so called “Gold Sellers””. While this is mostly aimed at Gold Sellers, it is deliberately phrased wider than that and covers all sorts of advertisement. Hence, if somebody creates an out of game “mini-games” website with a commercial vibe to it and uses in-game or in-community means to try and maximize their traffic, we would step in here as well.

      -Talion
      Losing my insanity would mean I'm losing everything: the dreams where I can fly.
    • Thank you.

      This was necessary as the amount of Discord, Website, and In-game advertisements were becoming overwhelming and out of control.

      Particularly, with Gold/Silver transactions and the servers being hosted in the United States, which has strict anti-online gambling enforcement, this clarification is the proper stance from SBI and I'm glad this is strictly defined within the TOS now.

      If you want to gamble, and you're of the legal age to do so, that's great, you can go to a Casino and have a great time! But Albion Online, and any other MMORPG for that matter has no place for gambling, and simply leads to toxic/malicious behavior the further it progresses.

      +1
    • Does this effect player created mini-games and fun events if the players don't have to do anything other than show up. "No charging them to participate"

      I guess with that I would include games outside the game also like Streamer raffles and such which are considered "games of chance".

      Would be sad to see these sort of fun activities go....but happy the silver scammers are getting thwacked.
    • there is some questionable grey area here such as lottery style games that are internal. For say giving away prizes from combat loot and other means. Players can buy in to win various prizes everyone wins but maybe not always the cost of what they put in? Is that still going to be considered gambling by this new rule set. Also this is not ran by any bot all done manual
    • Cyrux wrote:

      there is some questionable grey area here such as lottery style games that are internal. For say giving away prizes from combat loot and other means. Players can buy in to win various prizes everyone wins but maybe not always the cost of what they put in? Is that still going to be considered gambling by this new rule set. Also this is not ran by any bot all done manual
      This rules would technically kill every hg streamers that "giveaway" part of the loot they get from hg. Since the loot is not known in advance at the claiming moment, it is a gamble of how much profit they'll get out of that. Feels pretty rush as a TOS rule since there is obvious underlying issues that would come from this.
    • Guys stop spreading misinformation; this is not gambling.. this is free stuff... RNG doesnt mean gamble cuz in fact with ur damn logic if a weapon hitting 9-12 based dmg i ll say the combat system is a gambling system cuz i have the option to pay for a premium... this is crazy

      Gambling u have to pay, at least, a simple fee to earn the chance of winning a lot.. and everyone know when it's about gambling.. the casino always win (rigged)
      Rigged like ur personal island; u have 45 potatoes square.. u focus all 45 of the potato square ur gonna end up with like; 50 seed bag the next day (like 117%) +5 bags... u dont focus any of the 45 square (83% chance of having seeds) ur gonna end up with like 32 bags the next day -13 bags..

      If u wanna do misinformation aim that part cuz this is clearly rigged (not gambling, tho) when it supposed to be 50/50 even when u focus 50%+1 (5of the 9 square) ur gonna have to buy more seeds at a certain point and u have to pay a simple fee at least for ur personal island!! ^^

      The post was edited 6 times, last by KroDuK ().

    • Talion wrote:

      we already consider it a violation of our T&C, particularly §13.1 (Users are obliged to…(...)comply with applicable laws and all rights of third parties when using the Services.), and have to step in.


      Meanwhile y'all have a mod gambling on stream for months now and be ok with it, other people start doing the exact same shit but better, get popular and all hell breaks loose. Nice double standards. Be sure to put your mods on a leash too SBI, jokers.
    • KroDuK wrote:

      Guys stop spreading misinformation; this is not gambling.. this is free stuff... RNG doesnt mean gamble cuz in fact with ur damn logic if a weapon hitting 9-12 based dmg i ll say the combat system is a gambling system cuz i have the option to pay for a premium... this is crazy

      Gambling u have to pay, at least, a simple fee to earn the chance of winning a lot.. and everyone know when it's about gambling.. the casino always win (rigged)
      Rigged like ur personal island; u have 45 potatoes square.. u focus all 45 of the potato square ur gonna end up with like; 50 seed bag the next day (like 117%) +5 bags... u dont focus any of the 45 square (83% chance of having seeds) ur gonna end up with like 32 bags the next day -13 bags..

      If u wanna do misinformation aim that part cuz this is clearly rigged (not gambling, tho) when it supposed to be 50/50 even when u focus 50%+1 (5of the 9 square) ur gonna have to buy more seeds at a certain point and u have to pay a simple fee at least for ur personal island!! ^^
      I mostly agree, but there's a thin line that is way too gray atm.
      And the issue with you example, it's a % so the bigger your sample size is, the higher the chance that you have the "true" value of it due to how % works.
      The reason i gave that example from the twitch thing is due to people being able to "sub" to gain more channel point faster, would it be considered a gamble or rmt? that's the question.
      And your argument still doesn't cover the issue with dueling xD
      The issue that here comes from the fact silver can be bought with gold regarding the rng in the game is a different issue. As far as i know, there is no rng that much in albion for the combat since everything has a stat based out of the ip of you and the ip of your target and their own defensive values. So it is predictable to know the exact damage value of every attack. No rng involved in that.
      Point was that for those twitch thing, money can end up as silver. At least it aint the other way around but still.

      It always depends on how you want to see the situation and from which angle you approach it.
    • Deathskills wrote:

      But aint dueling a type of gambling so we wont be able to do that anymore?
      It isn't a game of chance. Coin flipping, roulette, almost anything mechanical in nature is considered a game of chance. Chess, sports, whatever, games of skill.

      It gets weird in the middle because some games classification is different from country to country, or in the US even state to state, or county to county.

      Poker is the flag ship of this class. Some places still consider it a game of chance, and others consider it a game of skill.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Deathskills wrote:

      I mostly agree, but there's a thin line that is way too gray atm.And the issue with you example, it's a % so the bigger your sample size is, the higher the chance that you have the "true" value of it due to how % works.
      Usually i would say ur right, but here the algorythm look rigged cuz of the lack of talent in maths from the dev.. here let me explain you why with a small exemple...

      I have a hat with numbers 1 to 300... you withdraw the number 297.. i replace it in the hat.. in french we call that boleal formula; methematicly u have less chance to withdraw the numbers 297 before the 299 others numbers,, we agree right? well if the algorythm doesnt take that in consideration (IT DOES NOT) it look rigged cuz in fact u still gonna have 1 chance of 300 numbers to withdraw the same 297 numbers not less without the boleal formula into the algorythm

      edit: do not matter the pool number u take 45 square or 45k square.. u cannot autoproduce urself with focusing ur plants/herbs 50%+1 ur gonna end up buying more seed anyway.. cuz this is rigged (intentionally or not.. the 50%+1 what ever pool u pick aint working at the end, when mathematicly it should be working with the number they giving us its 50/50 but in fact... nope)

      (sry if it's not clear i speak french i did write this real fast/hvnt look for better spelling on google, but u should be able to got my point here)


      For poeple being sub nope.. they already receive something for getting sub.. u could say this is favoritism like if the sub user receive more ticket that the free loader.. if u have a giveaway sub only.. pretty sure twitch TOS could explain it better than me...

      The dueling this is not RNG.. if we fight each other for 500k.. this is a prize pool competition (like the season reward for the Big alliance Zone).. BUT if you and I not fighting and taking bets on two fighter this is gambling since we're not part of the competitive pool price.. not sure if im clear here to ?

      For the fact everything can be bought in silver and u can buy silver with gold and gold with ur real money; this is why i said in the other thread.. usually i like playing dice game/ bidding on my Sandbox games... but since SBI is selling currency any form of gamble games; InGame are NASTY to me

      The post was edited 4 times, last by KroDuK ().