Hunter Hood

    • Edit : this test has many errors in it ! Look at the other one for more reliable results :)

      Well, I did some tests with hunter hood.

      Here are the results :

      1 : He did 108 damage when we were both naked.
      2 : He did 27 damage on me when I was wearing plate with hunter hood and he received 102. He received less than he did when I wear nothing
      Conclusion #1 : Reflect damage takes into account the resistance of the wearer.
      Question #1 : If he receive incoming damage, shouldn't he receive 108 damage?? I supposed it takes into account the hunter hood wearer resistances into account.

      3. 129 damage on me when i'm naked except hunter hood and he received 57 with full plate + leather helmet.
      Conclusion #2 : Reflect takes into account the resistance of the damage dealer.
      Question #2 : Does he take more damage than me when we are both wearing same gear? He should take less with the assumption of the Question #1 because the damage dealer has double resistance.

      4. As we concluded before, he was supposed to received less damage than me when I wear cloth and hunter hood and he wears plate and leather helmet..... But I received 75 and he got 87.. It looks a bit weird, because we said with conclusion #1 that my resistances reduce reflect damage and with conclusion #2 damage dealer resistances reduce reflect damage too... He wasn't supposed to received more than me.

      5. We both wear plate and leather hood, I received 48 and 54 to him. Still the same problem ...
      Question #3 : Does the resistance of the buff takes into account to the reflected damage?

      6. Here is the part where I find it a little too powerful. I wear plate with leather hood and he was wearing cloth armor, leather hood and plate boots. I received 64 and him 103. That's really strong against damage dealer...

      In conclusion, if I understand well, the damage dealer hits for X damage. Hunter Hood wearer resistances applied to the hit (X-Y)=Z, he tooks Z damage and then reflect Z to the attacker. Attacker resistances applied (Z-Y)=A. Attacker tooks A damage.
      With fictitious values : the damage dealer hits for 100 damage. Hunter Hood wearer resistances applied to the hit 100 - 50% = 50, he tooks 50 damage and then reflect 50 to the attacker. Attacker resistances applied 50 - 50% = 25. Attacker tooks 25 damage.

      Did I misunderstood something ? Did I make mistakes ? Can someone explain to me these strange results?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Saphirose ().

    • I have found this too. Reflect is way stronger than before.

      Reflecting does like 2 times the damage it was doing before.

      At the same time, thorns reflect damage was bugged. It used to do 3 times less damage than what it should reflect- but thorns reflect is a fix damage reflect, hunter hood depends on the damage you take.

      It has been like 3 patches where SBI has "corrected" reflect damage from both hunter hood and thorns. For about 1 month, thorns reflect damage did 3x less what it should have done. Maybe they added something to hunter hood by doing this as well, like more reflected damage but from EVERY source of damage?

      Look at this screen for example (taken saturday 4/4/20) - great nature vs 2x warbow with cleric robe
      YEP, retaliate is fine.
    • Noticed the same.

      With a team we've been doing YZ HG, so some random t5 great axe jumped on us while entering the gates then we punished him in a second.

      So with great curse and channeled E ability I almost suicided into his retaliate I don't do such damage to enemies that I did to myself.
    • It's me again !
      I did some tests again, but this time having thought about it a bit more.

      Here are the results :

      Here is what I conclude from it :
      1. Hunter hood reflects incoming damage and not inflicted damage. It means it reflects damage before calculating damage with resistances. No problem.
      2. The damage dealer resistances reduce reflect damages. No problem too.
      3. The tier of the hunter hood doesn't affect the reflected damages and the higher resistances make no difference in these tests. It's perfect.
      4. The damage boost of cloth and leather affects reflected damage. That's OP !!! Here is the problem !

      To test that hypothesis, I tried with druid robe and stew and YES. Damage buff increases the reflects damage.
      I suppose it also works with keeper cape, some shields, damage buff of some weapon passives and EVERY damage boost.

      I don't know if it is wanted on the part of devs, but I find this mechanism a little too powerful ...

      edit #1 : I did a mistake on the screenshot...

      edit #2 : someone ask me to be more specific on gear.
      Every item was T4 (except T6 and T8 hunter hood)
      My gears ->
      "Hunter Hood" = nothing except hunter hood
      "Cloth" = Mage sandals, cleric robe and hunter hood
      "Leather" = Hunter hood, Mercenary Jacket and Hunter shoe
      "Plate" = Guardian armor, Guardian boots and Hunter hood
      "HH" means Hunter Hood

      His Gears ->
      "Cloth" = Cleric cowl, cleric robe and mage sandals
      "Leather" = Assassin hood, mercenary jacket and hunter shoe
      "Plate" = Guardian armor, Guardian boots and soldier helmet

      Damage = bloodletter t4 auto attack
      Reflect damage = retaliate (spell that reflects on hunter hood)
      Proportion = (reflect damage)/(Damage)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Saphirose ().

    • Last batch of tests !
      I have taken into consideration the feedback I had previously

      So, We were using 4 "builds" :
      1. Nothing (just being naked, no resistances and armor)
      2. Cloth (bad armor, good damage)1
      3. Leather (an in-between of damage and armor)1
      4. Plate (good armor, bad damage)1
      1For the test, I was using, in every build, a hunter hood .... Logic

      We have to take the IP into account for potential differences with other tests, but they change the final results very little.

      First of all, we only used auto attacks, with weakening passive. I realized after the test that it probably distorted some results. However, for only 4%, this does not significantly change the results.

      D column : the damage dealt with a single auto attack on me with my gear only.
      D + Resistances : the damage dealt with a single auto attack on me with my gear and the hunter hood resistances boost.
      Reflect D : the damage dealt with the reflect of a single auto attack on him with his gear only.

      D reduction : the damage reduction from the resistances boost (in %)
      (Reflect D)/(D) : the proportion of damage reflected in relation to the damage without my resistances boost (in %). 100% is the same amount.
      (Reflect D)/(D+Res) : the proportion of damage reflected in relation to the damage with my resistances boost (in %). 100% is the same amount.

      He does 114 damage when I wear nothing (0 armor and resistance). But the damage reflected when I am in cloth is much higher (174). It means damage boost from items, consumables and other boosts affect the amount of damages reflected. This is what I concluded before.

      What is interesting here, it's the proportion of damage he received from the reflect. He litteralty received 106%2 (plate + hunter hood vs plate) to 148,2%2 (cloth with hunter hood vs cloth) in relation to auto attack without resistance buff. In fact, he willl NEVER received less damage than what he inflicts to me.

      In addition to that, if we take into account the resistance boost of the hunter hood, he received at least 125%2, and 182,6%2 to the maximum.

      2100% is the same amount.

      It is important to note that here there were no real duels. No consumables, no cape, no damage or resistance boost except hunter hood... We can easily assume that during a real duel, these values can vary as much downwards (with resistance boosts) as upwards (with damage boosts).

      So I find the hunter hood overpowered for two reasons :
      1. It reflects INCOMING damage (the 114 damages he does when I wear nothing). So it only takes his resistances into consideration.
      2. Both players boost the damage. The first one who attacks and the second player when he reflects.

      My point of view :
      Display Spoiler
      From a more subjective point of view, I see a lot of uninteresting fights because of this hood. Sometimes it's a no-fight (the reflects instantly kills most of the one-shot build). Also, I can be gamebreaker against some weapons (warbow, badon, claw, boltcaster, cursed staff, and many other) because the reflect can be placed at the right time and it deals so much damage...
      I also try something some days ago : counter PK a group of 9 gankers. I was wearing bloodletter, hunter hood, guardian boots, stalker jacket and keeper cape (all t4). I run into them (they were at a gate) and I use boots, then stalker jacket and finally the reflect. They stun/root me and all this and they took a lot of damage (they were almost all mid-life and I was too when my hunter hood ends. Unfortunately, my T4 bloodletter did not hurt enough to finish off the enemies... But I find that being able to put 9 enemies to mid-life with a T4 gear, and almost kill 2 or 3 of them with the bloodletter's dash is a way too overpower.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Saphirose ().

    • Salut Saphirose,

      Just quickly addressing your initial question + a couple of comments.

      1 - Yes something recently changed. The damage bonus was not fully applied to your reflected damage. The nature of the chest was taken into account (0% for metal, 20% for leather, 40% cloth) but your extra bonus was ignored (for instance mage vs cleric vs scholar). It is easier to notice the substantial boost on cloth gear with the appropriate passive.

      2 - Honkhonk/gtfo and I ran series of tests three months ago. We wanted to understand something weird about the damage reflect. So here it is. When people say that your defense are ignored in the reflect/retaliate mechanism, this is incorrect. Your stats as shown in magical resistance and armor are effectively ignored. However, when your damage type does not ignore your "defense vs." (offhand shield), the latter is also interacting with the reflect mechanism. This is a global multiplicative factor which is still taken into account and it decreases the amount of reflected damage. The funny part is that items (crypt candle for instance) increasing damage that you receive are acting as a negative shield and therefore they are amplifying your reflected damage.

      3 - comment deleted - it still rewrites the damage type, it depends on the item reflecting the damage.

      As usual, if the item becomes too popular (statistically), it will be toned down. In the past, iirc, it got both an upgrade (shorter cd) and then a nerf (shorter duration).

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Volnay: wrong statement in #3 ().

    • This is not isolated to Hunter Hood. All reflect damage is up across the board. Parry Strike and Deflecting Spin are both reflecting more damage too. I noticed this grinding some swords. Using PS was decent between the damage and the bit of reflect it did prior to this tweak, but with whatever changes to reflect will now straight drop mobs if use during their big moves.
    • The full reflection is much too strong, it really should be reduced to 80%. Duration and extra resist is fine, makes the item strategic as others have pointed out, but having it at 100% especially since it does not deal back the same type of damage dealt to the target and instead deals back magic damage is a huge issue. The damage amplification effects should not apply to reflect either but they seem to anyway.