Why is SBI so adamant to force people into no opt-out PvP for anything T5+

    • Why is SBI so adamant to force people into no opt-out PvP for anything T5+

      The game is a touted as a "MMORPG sandbox", and yet as a PvE player or gatherer you're only safe until T5 zones, which is the last tier of safe zones, as T6 - T8 zones are full-loot PvP.

      Why is that the case?
      To me it seems the forced PvP of T6+ zones is just there to uphold the illusion(especially for SBI) that the game:
      • Is a sandbox with PvP focus and
      • People actually want to play no opt-out PvP when they just want to gather or PvE


      Someone in a reddit thread put it best(with a little paraphrase from me):
      Full-loot PvP is just a code for "High level player ganking low level players/groups ganking solo players while both run away from other high level PvP players. Guild fights are only about trading territories with little to no fighting".

      Food for thought:
      How many players would be glad for and come back to the game if there are T6-T8 blue/yellow zones for safe PvE and gathering?
      How many players would actually miss this full-loot PvP(not considering HG) of ganking low level players/ganking solo players or smaller groups in a big group?
    • faintrespite wrote:

      I don't mean this condescendingly, but if that's what you want why don't you just go play World of Warcraft?

      The reason Albion is unique is that it is full loot PvP. If it doesn't have that, then why play Albion?
      • You are condescending if you have to put a disclaimer that you're not
      • If the scope is full-loot PvP there would be no blue/yellow zones but full-loot PvP just after the tutorial, right?
      • Albion Online is a sandbox, and yet by default I'm locked into T5 zones if I don't want forced PvP, thus missing the exponentially better silver/loot/fame rates of T6-T8 zones
    • Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      if you Arent gonna pvp, then why are you even grinding your gears?.

      the low tiers zones are meant as entry points into the game. where do you intend to use that t8 gear you wanna gather resources for ?.
      • For what reason are you playing a game if not to just kill time? That's no argument, that's even lower than grasping for straws
      • Your argument of "low tier zones are meant as an entry point" contradicts the touted scope of a full-loot PvP game, as out of 8 tier levels 5 tiers aren't full-loot PvP and it seems very strange for an "entry point" to last for so long, right?
      • T8 use:
        • Avalonian dungeons
        • High-tier HCE
        • T7-8 dungeons
      It seems you're suffering from tunnel-vision: there's far more to do in a sandbox than PvP.
    • The blue and yellow zones are meant for the beginners to learn the game. If there were only full-loot zones no new player could do anything against veteran players. My opinion is that they should be viewed as stepping stones to the real thing. You start there and work your way to the red and black zones.Of course there aren't going to be high tier safe zones, this is just profit versus risk. Not to mention the effects that would have on the economy.
      This goes for anything, from gathering to faming in dungeons. You can always play in the safe zones, as much as you want. The rewards for it however will be not very good. If you are like me and hate getting ganked by groups of people you need to learn how to escape and adapt to your surroundings. As someone who lives in the black zones, with a small alliance, i have been ganked just 2 or 3 times in the time i was playing. You learn the zones and times where it is safe to do certain contents, what gear and mount works best for your play style.

      As the person above me said, this is what Albion is about. It is a full loot pvp game.
    • Lofthild wrote:

      The game is a touted as a "MMORPG sandbox", and yet as a PvE player or gatherer you're only safe until T5 zones, which is the last tier of safe zones, as T6 - T8 zones are full-loot PvP.

      Why is that the case?
      To me it seems the forced PvP of T6+ zones is just there to uphold the illusion(especially for SBI) that the game:
      • Is a sandbox with PvP focus and
      • People actually want to play no opt-out PvP when they just want to gather or PvE


      Someone in a reddit thread put it best(with a little paraphrase from me):
      Full-loot PvP is just a code for "High level player ganking low level players/groups ganking solo players while both run away from other high level PvP players. Guild fights are only about trading territories with little to no fighting".
      Food for thought:
      How many players would be glad for and come back to the game if there are T6-T8 blue/yellow zones for safe PvE and gathering?
      How many players would actually miss this full-loot PvP(not considering HG) of ganking low level players/ganking solo players or smaller groups in a big group?
      This is nothing more than an argument for Trammel and a sure fire way to destroy a PvP focussed game, as history has shown.
      Midgard
      T8 Fibre, Ore, Hide, Wood & Stone Gatherer
      T8 Gathering Gear Crafter
      T8 Bags & Capes Crafter
    • If everyone could get the best resources and equipment in the game without risk from other players, it would destroy the entire economy, create cosmic inflation, also remove ganking from the game, because what any gatherer or fame farmer was to risk gank when he can play safe zone. This game is based on the risk vs reward principle - the more rewards you want, the more risk you have to take. You cannot change this foundation because everything built on it will fall.
    • I think just about everyone can agree that Albion's PvE is bottom tier simply because it is just designed to be a mechanic to build spec for inevitable PvP. If your looking to play a game to just level all day with no PvP than unfortunately like a few others above have said Albion is just not the game for sure MUCH better options exist. The bigger question is why do you not enjoy PvP? Full loot PvP is what makes Albion special. Now is there to much N+1 type of fighting happening sure I would agree with that (especially being I prefer solo/small scale PvP) but per the road map hopefully a few changes come in soon to help with this. Additionally having a game market where everything is provided by the players would fail miserably if players were allowed all the best shit with no risk of being killed.
    • Lofthild wrote:

      The game is a touted as a "MMORPG sandbox", and yet as a PvE player or gatherer you're only safe until T5 zones, which is the last tier of safe zones, as T6 - T8 zones are full-loot PvP.

      Why is that the case?
      To me it seems the forced PvP of T6+ zones is just there to uphold the illusion(especially for SBI) that the game:
      • Is a sandbox with PvP focus and
      • People actually want to play no opt-out PvP when they just want to gather or PvE


      Someone in a reddit thread put it best(with a little paraphrase from me):
      Full-loot PvP is just a code for "High level player ganking low level players/groups ganking solo players while both run away from other high level PvP players. Guild fights are only about trading territories with little to no fighting".
      Food for thought:
      How many players would be glad for and come back to the game if there are T6-T8 blue/yellow zones for safe PvE and gathering?
      How many players would actually miss this full-loot PvP(not considering HG) of ganking low level players/ganking solo players or smaller groups in a big group?

      I very much agree. Check out New Worlds for an example of an MMO that is thinking along those lines. :)

      Some excerpts:

      While PvP did change over the course of Alpha, generally, it was full loot and open world with only Outposts acting as sanctuaries. Everyone was vulnerable to attack, at any time, from other players in the rest of the world. In order to attack, players would flag Criminal Intent. If you died as a Criminal you would experience full gear and inventory loss. If you died to a Criminal you would lose all of your inventory but keep your equipped gear with durability damage taken.

      One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.

      We set out to build a compelling world full of danger and opportunity that begs to be explored. The intended design was never to allow a small group of players to bully other players. Based on what we saw, we realized that we needed to make fundamental changes and not just incremental fixes, (which we tried several times during the Closed Alpha).
      As we work toward finishing the launch features, we’ve been listening intently to the feedback around the balance between PvP and PvE. Our vision is to create a world where the playstyles of PvP and PvE players will not only coexist, but will complement each other. We know this can be a challenging balance to strike, but we will iterate on our game design until we accomplish it.
      I’ve seen the discussions and want to be transparent and clear that we have no plans to bring back open world full loot PvP. The vision is a world where PvP and PvE players can coexist and complement each other, which could not be achieved with full loot open world PvP. We will continue pursuing our vision, adding features and content aligned to our pillars and we are excited to embark on this path together!

      Note that the PvP system is similar to Albion's faction-flagging:

      In order for a Faction to retain control of a Territory, its members must actively Reinforce that Faction’s Influence within that Territory. Similarly, if members of another Faction want to take control of a Territory, they must Undermine the controlling Faction’s Influence by raising their own. Reinforcing and Undermining Faction Influence is done by completing PvP Faction Missions in that specific Territory.

      There are two types of Faction Missions: PvE and PvP. PvE Missions ask you to do things like defeat creatures, craft supplies, or stockpile resources. Completing a PvE Mission rewards Faction currency, which can be used to purchase Faction-specific equipment and items.

      PvP Missions ask you to do things like recover tactical information, deliver critical messages or items to another Territory, or patrol an area for opposing Factions. Accepting a PvP Faction mission will auto-flag you for PvP.
    • Roccandil wrote:

      Check out New Worlds for an example of an MMO that is thinking along those lines.
      And in doing so relegated themselves to the same playing field as dozens of other two-a-penny cloned games. Albion offers something different, and thats a good thing. I'll refer to the replies in your 'other' thread as to why this isnt what albion needs. You know which thread I refer to.
      Midgard
      T8 Fibre, Ore, Hide, Wood & Stone Gatherer
      T8 Gathering Gear Crafter
      T8 Bags & Capes Crafter
    • Oh, one more thing: the game I played before Albion was Wurm Online, and I played on the Epic cluster: full-loot, open-world PvP.

      Due to hardcore PvPers chasing away everyone else, however, the world was almost completely empty. A population of fifty players in the entire world was busy!

      It was so bad that PvPers would rarely full-loot anyone they killed, especially newer players, because they knew they needed people to play against. So they'd get the kill, maybe take an item or two, but voluntarily let the ganked player have most of their inventory back. (Imagine Albion gankers doing that! :P )

      That's what I see awaiting the Albion Outlands.
    • Midgard wrote:

      Albion offers something different...

      Fool-loot PvP isn't different. The outcome is predictable: less and less population as players find something better to do than be fodder for gankers or mega-NAPs.

      The concept of integrating PvE and PvP into the same world as complementary, not adversarial, is not something I've seen implemented, however, and I'm curious to see how New World actually does it, and what the effect will be.
    • It is ok for ALbion to be a little different. But some changes could be made to make griefing less tasty.

      1) Pvp fame penalty based on combined item power difference. Taking to account assists etc. (down to zero if diffference is huge)
      2) I am not fan of the added trash rate idea... Because it could also be used for griefing ... but something along those lines. Less loot for griefers, little bit of refund for the victim.

      The changes can be small and still make a huge difference to the population and health of Albion.
      IGN/Discord : Ravenar#2076
      Join Albion
    • You do realize that you can go into blackzones and stay there for days without being killed right? There are areas that are in-the-middle-of-nowhere, no one will ever find you there. Also if you are looking into doing dungeons you must be in a guild or alliance or something to find people to do it with. This is a community driven game, you have to actually talk to people to get stuff done. Honestly after almost a year of playing sometimes I have so much gear I go into BZ looking for a fight for hours ( a fair one, not like those newbs at portals or next zone). You get gear, get fame, get better and go out there loose everything and go back.
      With 100/400 on a weapon and armors even with 5.1 (their price is a joke), most gankers won't be able to beat you 1v1 or even 2v1.

      Once you accept losing gear and start being smart about how you navigate the world its all much better, but yes you can either get on an ox with t4 and move to BZ 1 day after you start, or stay in the Royals for months until you can afford losing 1 set per day without silver going down, farm, get better and all will be good.
    • Midgard wrote:

      Stop banging your trammel drum in Albion.

      As long as I'm playing this game, I will post as I please. :)

      McDobs wrote:

      You do realize that you can go into blackzones and stay there for days without being killed right? There are areas that are in-the-middle-of-nowhere, no one will ever find you there.

      Even in Queen, realmgates are still extremely powerful: you have to come through them at some point, whether to resupply, or return with what you've accumulated. That's one reason gankers don't care about the faraway zones: they'll get you to bring your loot near a portal, and then gank you. :)

      If the Outlands were truly self-sufficient, realmgate corridors would be far less travelled, and gankers would have to work harder for their kills.
    • I don't understand one thing. I also played other MMORPGs, some more hardcore PVP whenothers. Albion attracted me with full PvP loot and a strong focus on PvPaspect themselves, when most of the titles on the market went towards PvE. (I've been playing WoW for 14 years and the last additions when it comes to PvP were getting worse - this is just an example.)
      Since you have chosen Albion as it is and was assumed, why now you want to completely change it at its base. Go play the games you want to make him look like if they are better. I never wanted AO to look like Ultima, Runescape or any other game. To succeed, it is enough for him to constantly develop within the creators own vision, to expand what we already have.

      BTW in my opinion New World will not be a hit. I watch him for some time, I like to be up to date with the MMO market and every day I come to the conclusion that the view straight from MOBA games is the best solution for full loot where zerg fights and chaos is a part of game.
      It is true that the view from behind the characters is playable, but sieges or large battles in such DAoC were at a lower level due to poor visibility of the battlefield. Being ganked will be an even worse experience for the victim. It is impossible to assess the size of the enemy, and the side from which his colleagues are coming = harder to escape when the opponent has numbers advantage.