NDA Dagger Changes

    • iRawr wrote:

      Theat wrote:

      The new 'Q' aoe is a horrible design, bad spell.

      Revert Dash back to normal.

      Dagger was balanced before the mess. New 1h-dagger is "meh", no big improvement. You don't know what you're talking about. I've played dagger for 2 years. The melee classes are good.


      It's ridiculous that Carving has more mobility, more damage, more "utility", then daggers, and yet still you cry.
      You only talk about carving with undead cape + demon boots. Coth this 2 items in imbalanced.New 1h dagger is best solo DPS and also best 1 vs X weapon now. if you doing it right.

      You playing daggers for 2 years and dont know the bloodletter has AoE? I got a bad news for you, you r bad daggers player, and you playing it really bad for 2 years. That why you cant see they power before and now, and that why you losing to carving and cry now.
      lol srsly? Any bow ANY with just the normal run will fuck uo every dagger in a same skill duel.

      The 1h dagger cant just get melee range to unload dps and the bow the only thing is has to do is press w frost shot everytime that the 1h dagger presses E.

      Carving sword has AoE damage, crazy armor reduction, crazy invulnerabily and reflect. Dude this and warbow are meta now there is no other reason to play other weapons in open world.

      Now, i do think daggers are better now than before, only thing i think is that the w dash is so nerfed down that is literally unplayable.

      Dash cd should be same as throwing blades and the distance should me buffed to a mid point from what it was and what it is, so a 9.5 mts would be acceptable for testing.

      Think aboit this, dash now has longer cd, less range and less damage bonus than throwing blades. With throwing blades you run a lot if you hit 2 guys you gain a better damage buff and you do aoe damage at range! For less cooldown!!

      Clearly devs wanted to stop ratting on hellgates thats why dash got nerfed but now it is not even an option, you play throwing blades or maybe stun in a hellgate.
    • And main swords and daggers, both almost 400/400 so I have a bit of a comparison.
      But one thing first. Nerf daggers mobility and inner focus on spear was good. It was bad not to add carving sword to this list.
      Do not compare other weapons to him as a point to reach, he should get a nerf. The rest of the swords are comparable to daggers, have their pros and cons.
      Another issue, dash is not the only W spell.
      Sword users have long changed Depending on the situation and the opponent, it may be time to learn, because the others in the dagger are not bad, some require some skill for proper use.
      Shadow edge - lower cd then hash, low range, cc, can bue used on monsters to gain mobility, but need some practices to hit the opponent.
      Buffed throwing blades is nice, forbidden stab is now like instant. Just try to learn and adapt. Dash still it gives the advantage of mobility over most weapons, no crossbow, fire staff etc. can escape, plus, increasing dmg is a big buff for dagger pair and deathgivers.
      The dagger also doesn't make you any ninja, too much WoW. You are just a man with a dagger, they did not magically disappear from the battlefield after they hit the target, watch a historical movie ;)
      You want to be an assassin, choose invisibility on armor, shoes, potion, smokebomb and you have your assassin - will it be effective? I doubt it, but you have your fantasy of a ninja disappearing and fleeing from battle.
      It is not without reason that potential in direct combat has been strengthened in exchange for mobility in daggers. The era of unpunished escapes from battle is ending, and not only for daggers. Everyone who fights will now have to take the same risk of death without escaping safely thanks to super mobility.
    • Niefart wrote:

      And main swords and daggers, both almost 400/400 so I have a bit of a comparison.
      But one thing first. Nerf daggers mobility and inner focus on spear was good. It was bad not to add carving sword to this list.
      Do not compare other weapons to him as a point to reach, he should get a nerf. The rest of the swords are comparable to daggers, have their pros and cons.
      Another issue, dash is not the only W spell.
      Sword users have long changed Depending on the situation and the opponent, it may be time to learn, because the others in the dagger are not bad, some require some skill for proper use.
      Shadow edge - lower cd then hash, low range, cc, can bue used on monsters to gain mobility, but need some practices to hit the opponent.
      Buffed throwing blades is nice, forbidden stab is now like instant. Just try to learn and adapt. Dash still it gives the advantage of mobility over most weapons, no crossbow, fire staff etc. can escape, plus, increasing dmg is a big buff for dagger pair and deathgivers.
      The dagger also doesn't make you any ninja, too much WoW. You are just a man with a dagger, they did not magically disappear from the battlefield after they hit the target, watch a historical movie ;)
      You want to be an assassin, choose invisibility on armor, shoes, potion, smokebomb and you have your assassin - will it be effective? I doubt it, but you have your fantasy of a ninja disappearing and fleeing from battle.
      It is not without reason that potential in direct combat has been strengthened in exchange for mobility in daggers. The era of unpunished escapes from battle is ending, and not only for daggers. Everyone who fights will now have to take the same risk of death without escaping safely thanks to super mobility.
      same here, 400 daggers, 400 swords, but also 400 holy and 400 nature..

      So I do the damage and next day I heal vs this..

      And I can grant u, daggers are ok, the problem is carving as niefart says.

      I don't know him, I never played with or against him, but my true recommend is

      Put niefart closer to balance feedback and developers, beside Tabor I don't see anyone close to understand balance of small scale than these 2..
    • I don't understand all the hard-ons for nerfing Carving sword. It's damage isn't even as good as a Broadsword, I feel like the only issue people have with it is that if you stand on top of each other it can deal good damage to multiple targets and it has a short dash for utility on a 20 second CD. Carving isn't more powerful (even a Clarent Blade will do more damage faster), it's just that you can't purge it and it has some utility. This leads to a weapon that can reliably hit it's targets, which shouldn't even be a thing to worry about but for some reason Albion is designed in such a way that it's totally cool for a Crossbow to instantly kill you in 3 button presses and have 14 seconds of invulnerability on itself, but a Sword actually being able to stay within Melee range is a problem.
    • Well its the same, bad dagger players cry that daggers is weak, same as frost bad players cry that frost have low DPS in PvE, or nature bad healers cry that "nature healers is bad for PvP".

      Looks like its all about how you play it and how you want play it, but not about weapon itslef.

      We got alot of useless weapons, like Arcanes, or Maces. But they have they usability in small part of content in game. Daggers is ok for 99% content in the game, but you still crying more then arcane\mace users.
    • Acoustic wrote:

      I don't understand all the hard-ons for nerfing Carving sword. It's damage isn't even as good as a Broadsword, I feel like the only issue people have with it is that if you stand on top of each other it can deal good damage to multiple targets and it has a short dash for utility on a 20 second CD. Carving isn't more powerful (even a Clarent Blade will do more damage faster), it's just that you can't purge it and it has some utility. This leads to a weapon that can reliably hit it's targets, which shouldn't even be a thing to worry about but for some reason Albion is designed in such a way that it's totally cool for a Crossbow to instantly kill you in 3 button presses and have 14 seconds of invulnerability on itself, but a Sword actually being able to stay within Melee range is a problem.
      carving is max mobility + max damage that's why it is broken.

      You can engage and always disengage if the shit hits the fan, and while having the option to leave any 1 on 1 at u discreceny and reengage anytime u decide u have insane damage.

      Tage U 1shot crossbow. This crossbow has good damage no doubt, has easy counters (which carving doesn't) - just interrupt the E- or iceblock or soldier helm..or cleric robe - if poison ticks..whatever.. there is a ton of options to avoid the E which is not there for the E of Carving..on top it is a lot of consistent damage

      But

      And there u example is good, the oneshot xbow once it has committed, will not be able to disengage.
      This weapon has risk and reward included

      To carving just reward without risk because it can disengage anytime while having similar or even better damage
    • iRawr wrote:

      Well its the same, bad dagger players cry that daggers is weak, same as frost bad players cry that frost have low DPS in PvE, or nature bad healers cry that "nature healers is bad for PvP".

      Looks like its all about how you play it and how you want play it, but not about weapon itslef.

      We got alot of useless weapons, like Arcanes, or Maces. But they have they usability in small part of content in game. Daggers is ok for 99% content in the game, but you still crying more then arcane\mace users.
      Gnature dies to claws on mage robe, and there is nothing u can do..

      I explain u why:

      Claws just Q the nature until it has thorns up, then magerobe, W, E

      If nature puts up nature shield, claw does mage robe and thorns purge nature shield by mage robe..

      As everyone can pocket claws and mage robe, nature is, as no mobility always dead in 1:1 if other is semi competent in PvP which means, bring swap gear..which everyone with basic PvP skill does anyway

      And, if nature would win, claws simpy dashes away, as nature has Zero mobility and is a lame duck if on thorns which it needs to be in PvP..

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Hollywoodi ().

    • Hollywoodi wrote:

      iRawr wrote:

      Well its the same, bad dagger players cry that daggers is weak, same as frost bad players cry that frost have low DPS in PvE, or nature bad healers cry that "nature healers is bad for PvP".

      Looks like its all about how you play it and how you want play it, but not about weapon itslef.

      We got alot of useless weapons, like Arcanes, or Maces. But they have they usability in small part of content in game. Daggers is ok for 99% content in the game, but you still crying more then arcane\mace users.
      Gnature dies to claws on mage robe, and there is nothing u can do..
      I explain u why:

      Claws just Q the nature until it has thorns up, then magerobe, W, E

      If nature puts up nature shield, claw does mage robe and thorns purge nature shield by mage robe..

      As everyone can pocket claws and mage robe, nature is, as no mobility always dead in 1:1 if other is semi competent in PvP which means, bring swap gear..which everyone with basic PvP skill does anyway

      And, if nature would win, claws simpy dashes away, as nature has Zero mobility and is a lame duck if on thorns which it needs to be in PvP..
      I am talking about the posts where nature healers cry about they are bad for ZvZ and 5 vs 5, and need buff (Еhat complete nonsense, as well as low frost damage in PvE).
      1 vs 1 nature healer, just same bad as any other healer. No mobility, no cc, no chance to run or catch. But well this is not healers for.
    • What?

      A purge on a sword??

      Q - one stack

      W - second stack

      Autoattack 3. Stack

      U are living on an island. Go ask @Tabor and compare a sword purge risk vs the counters to a curse or a bow

      And invis..wtf? What counter is invis in a sword fight..??

      Seriously man, that was bad

      And I agree, if u fight a carving, usually it is QautoautoQW poisonE QAuto dead..

      True u argue u just need one E in fight...
    • Hollywoodi wrote:

      carving is max mobility + max damage that's why it is broken.

      You can engage and always disengage if the shit hits the fan, and while having the option to leave any 1 on 1 at u discreceny and reengage anytime u decide u have insane damage.

      Tage U 1shot crossbow. This crossbow has good damage no doubt, has easy counters (which carving doesn't) - just interrupt the E- or iceblock or soldier helm..or cleric robe - if poison ticks..whatever.. there is a ton of options to avoid the E which is not there for the E of Carving..on top it is a lot of consistent damage

      But

      And there u example is good, the oneshot xbow once it has committed, will not be able to disengage.
      This weapon has risk and reward included

      To carving just reward without risk because it can disengage anytime while having similar or even better damage
      But it's not either of those things. It has good mobility because of the Heroic Charge passive (a really good passive that makes Swords viable at all) and a short range dash (it isn't even one of the best dashes in the game), and the damage is... okay? Seriously it's some of the lower end of Sword damage, the difference is it's limited AOE and it can do this damage without being purged. Even with max stacks, it's still weaker and got a longer cooldown than other swords. There are other weapons in the game that can also engage and disengage, so that can't be the problem either; it was super oppressive on Spears but that's because they had a constant 80% speed boost, dashes, and slows.

      It's not just, "Crossbow" It's the entire weapon line. Crossbow, Light Crossbow, and Boltcasters are all insanely high damaged ranged weapons who's only setup require you to hit them with Sunder Shot. Yes, they have counters that you may or may not be able to use but all of these counters work for the Carving Sword as well, which trades in it's predictability for less damage in comparison. These weapons can also slow you, knock you back, and have armor/boots that will help you get away if needed or chase down the Carving Sword. Can a Carving Sword beat these? Yeah, it has access to Parry which can reflect Crossbow, block the bomb from Light Crossbow, mitigate some of the damage from Boltcasters or swap to Interrupt to immediately stop it (that is assuming the Boltcasters didn't land the Silence Shot).

      The Carving Sword does not have more damage than any of these options, in fact it has a fraction; the only difference is that it's more consistent in landing hits because of it's movement passive stacks and dash that doesn't get affected nearly as much as other swords through purging (which is probably intended as without it the entire Sword line would be hard-countered completely by Mage Robe and Maces). Most of the time a Carving Sword is running Stalker Hood, Hellion Jacket, and Demon Boots in PVP and if it's running Iron Will for it's passive that means it doesn't have Parry to block and reflect (and overall has less damage), so all you have to do is commit to killing it and chase it down because chances are your weapon is going to beat it. Again, the difference here is that in 1vX fights the Carving Sword does damage if you stack on eachother and gets Heroic Charges faster if it's Q hits both. Demon Boots are super annoying right now and meta for ganking/anti-ganking, but everybody has access to them (and it's a shame they'll probably get nerfed because right now they're way too safe).

      I don't understand at all how it's considered OP. It doesn't do anything more than being somewhat consistent at the cost of damage. It's damage is far from, "insane" unless you've never once looked at the sword tree. While it's E does full damage for the most part with 0 stacks so purging is less crushing on them, it's still effected by forced-movement effects like Knockback and if they're at maximum range for their E you should still be able to counter it and negate it, which happens to me all the goddamned time I try to use Dual Swords and it's also less predictable.

      For daggers, I really wish they'd get better passives. Right now the same problems daggers have always had still exist: you can practically walk away from them and they have no answer to that. While the auto-attack changes helped, if you're trying to chase down somebody moving at the same speed as you there's basically no damage being done, so with 1H dagger for instance all you have to do is run away from them, and if they pop their E you just CC them once and the entire skill is wasted. Dagger Passives are still absolute trash. You get a Bleed, a Heal on Auto Attacks, an Attack Speed Boost, or a Damage Boost. Any of these IMO could be changed to something more meaningful and it would really help the line.
    • Look, you are really living on an island

      You ask for better passive for daggers..

      Take the things to fix and then ..why daggers?

      Take nature solo, it has as only working passive for Thorns, Mana gain on auto - and I can grant you, that is what u not need at all..

      Regarding swords.. swords are the top played weapons in 2 hg.. sword and lifetouch ..is the most used combo

      Now take your example 400 sword plays vs xbow .. sword will switch on broadsword - xbow is no damage ..

      So swords forces xbow to play something else..or get hard countered

      Take curse: swords goes on dual guardian and curse has to switch

      Take bow, sword goes on mage robe and fine chowl, bow needs switch

      Now tell me, against which weapon line the sword has to switch??

      I know none, that's why sword is the number one weapon in small scale
    • Hollywoodi wrote:

      Look, you are really living on an island
      Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      You ask for better passive for daggers..

      Take the things to fix and then ..why daggers?
      Because this thread is about the NDA Dagger Changes and I was trying to get back on topic, I was just curious why you're complaining so much about an over mediocre weapon in the Carving Sword and I explained several times it has long cooldowns and does less damage than other swords, but because of this does some AOE damage and isn't affected by purges nearly as much which out-right ruins other swords in the game and makes them basically unusable.

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Regarding swords.. swords are the top played weapons in 2 hg.. sword and lifetouch ..is the most used combo
      Now take your example 400 sword plays vs xbow .. sword will switch on broadsword - xbow is no damage ..

      So swords forces xbow to play something else..or get hard countered
      First of all, that's basically always going to happen in any game. I'd actually wager that Holy is the problem here, not the sword; and in that situation you need to have AOE damage to hit both of them at the same time to stress the healer out.
      Second of all, some weapons are going to be more catered to different game modes; like how daggers are useful for escaping and ganking but absolutely horrible for anything else. Crossbows are top-tier in basically all forms of Albion, and the Light Crossbow is another top played weapon in 2v2 HGs; and there's nothing that Swords do that forces Xbow to play something else, I don't know where you get that idea and you didn't support that claim with any evidence whatsoever. Where does the Crossbow stop dealing damage again? Because Crossbows are meta in everything right now and if they were that easy to shut down they wouldn't be. As high-spec Sword user myself I'd love to know. Back up your statement with facts, because earlier you seemed to imply that a Carving Sword is out there beating everybody including Crossbows wearing Cleric Cowl and Cleric Robe while running Iron Will...

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Take curse: swords goes on dual guardian and curse has to switch

      Take bow, sword goes on mage robe and fine chowl, bow needs switch
      Yeah, that's unfortunately how the game works right now. Everybody has something the enemy can switch to and be countered.

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Now tell me, against which weapon line the sword has to switch??
      Any of them? Mage Robe purges every Heroic Charge for 8 goddamned seconds while giving you Plate armor, Fiend Cowl just purges on a whim and doesn't have a tell which can super screw up everything, Cultist Cowl chunks their HP away every time they attack, Ice Block/Cleric Robe/Assassin Shoes can block damages, Hunter Hood reflects the damage, Hood of Tenacity would completely kill their ability to get healed and can be paired with a Dagger's Forbidden Stab to turn healing completely off; what even is the problem here? You're complaining about weapons having counters. Bow is basically unbeatable unless you have a purge. Curse is basically unbeatable if you don't have Guardian Helm. This is why you have counters and have to play around those counters. Swords do nothing when purged and are melee so normal CC completely invalidates their damage.

      Have you never touched a sword before? Honest question.
    • Acoustic wrote:

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Look, you are really living on an island
      Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      You ask for better passive for daggers..

      Take the things to fix and then ..why daggers?
      Because this thread is about the NDA Dagger Changes and I was trying to get back on topic, I was just curious why you're complaining so much about an over mediocre weapon in the Carving Sword and I explained several times it has long cooldowns and does less damage than other swords, but because of this does some AOE damage and isn't affected by purges nearly as much which out-right ruins other swords in the game and makes them basically unusable.

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Regarding swords.. swords are the top played weapons in 2 hg.. sword and lifetouch ..is the most used combo
      Now take your example 400 sword plays vs xbow .. sword will switch on broadsword - xbow is no damage ..

      So swords forces xbow to play something else..or get hard countered
      First of all, that's basically always going to happen in any game. I'd actually wager that Holy is the problem here, not the sword; and in that situation you need to have AOE damage to hit both of them at the same time to stress the healer out.Second of all, some weapons are going to be more catered to different game modes; like how daggers are useful for escaping and ganking but absolutely horrible for anything else. Crossbows are top-tier in basically all forms of Albion, and the Light Crossbow is another top played weapon in 2v2 HGs; and there's nothing that Swords do that forces Xbow to play something else, I don't know where you get that idea and you didn't support that claim with any evidence whatsoever. Where does the Crossbow stop dealing damage again? Because Crossbows are meta in everything right now and if they were that easy to shut down they wouldn't be. As high-spec Sword user myself I'd love to know. Back up your statement with facts, because earlier you seemed to imply that a Carving Sword is out there beating everybody including Crossbows wearing Cleric Cowl and Cleric Robe while running Iron Will...

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Take curse: swords goes on dual guardian and curse has to switch

      Take bow, sword goes on mage robe and fine chowl, bow needs switch
      Yeah, that's unfortunately how the game works right now. Everybody has something the enemy can switch to and be countered.

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Now tell me, against which weapon line the sword has to switch??
      Any of them? Mage Robe purges every Heroic Charge for 8 goddamned seconds while giving you Plate armor, Fiend Cowl just purges on a whim and doesn't have a tell which can super screw up everything, Cultist Cowl chunks their HP away every time they attack, Ice Block/Cleric Robe/Assassin Shoes can block damages, Hunter Hood reflects the damage, Hood of Tenacity would completely kill their ability to get healed and can be paired with a Dagger's Forbidden Stab to turn healing completely off; what even is the problem here? You're complaining about weapons having counters. Bow is basically unbeatable unless you have a purge. Curse is basically unbeatable if you don't have Guardian Helm. This is why you have counters and have to play around those counters. Swords do nothing when purged and are melee so normal CC completely invalidates their damage.
      Have you never touched a sword before? Honest question.
      that is a funny question if I have touched sword before..

      I do think that I have an overview, I have 400 sword, 400 dagger, 400 holy, 400 nature, 400 bow, 400 xbow, 400 curse, some 100 spec on fire, frost, arcane...

      And I have 120 mio PVE fame exclusive from HG.

      If I play DPS my weapon of choice in 2hg is sword, because I have no counter. The purge of the mage robe, 8 secs, Jesus, u kite a bit away with u healer or switch target..and not hit the mage robe but the other guy and build stacks.. seriously ..building stacks on sword is really super easy.. and if I get Purge by fin chowl, hallelujah, I do one Q, push my W, have 2 stacks which put me on target by movesspeed and attackspeed I get my 3. Q from auto ..and now my friend I am fully buffed and wait while my stacks refresh, put my poison and my cultist on and tome my E, after my E I do Q, send a W, and have within 3 secs full stacks again..

      Now what about your mage robe on 50 secs CD?