Suggested change to the new dagger Q

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    • Suggested change to the new dagger Q

      Retroman wrote:

      Added new Ability: Deadly Swipe (Q-slot / all Daggers)

      Leap towards the targeted area and deals 75 physical damage to all enemies in a 2.5m radius. Applies one stack of Assassin Spirit on yourself per enemy hit.

      Standtime: 0.6s -> 0.45s
      Jump Speed: 12m/s -> 18m/s
      Cooldown: 6s -> 4s
      Radius: 2m -> 2.5m
      Even though I like the idea of adding a new dagger Q skill, I feel like this one just slightly misses the mark on the theme of the dagger tree and its play style. With the upcoming nerf to the dash on W I think a far more interesting skill would be something as follows:

      Added new Ability: Deadly Swipe (Q-slot / all Daggers)
      • Dash to the target dealing 125 physical damage leaving the user 1m behind the target. Applies one stack of assassin spirit (I have considered which stack this should apply and it is hard to settle on one, essentially sunder armor if lower base damage and assassin spirit if higher base damage). (having trouble finding the baseline damage on sunder armor, but this q should deal a respectable amount of damage while being less than the standard damage)
      • Standtime: 0s
      • Jump Speed: cain slash speed without the invisibility
      • Cooldown: 3-5s. This just requires testing, too high and it isn't worth using, too low and the other q's are obsolete
      • Range: 3-5m and puts the user 1m behind the target. This is a tough one, the range should not be such that you can jump a ranged player too easily but should give you some slight sticking potential. Most of the power comes from moving behind the target which will in most cases put you in front of where they wish to move.
      The idea behind this skill is to give the daggers a q that makes the weapons feel more fluid in movement and more mobile in fights while not giving them a q that allows movement out of a fight. One of the hardest aspects in the entire dagger line is sticking to your target and this skill will give you a strength to that area while weakening your power against builds that want to get into melee as well.
      Overall I think this would be a better addition to the dagger tree and I hope that it is considered. :thumbsup:
      Glaive (rip)
      Infernal #1 :D ...ALSO RIP
      I am also eternally poor.
    • It is pve skill supposed to help with clear speed and let dagger users join groups.
      But it won't work out because cd it too high and/of it gives ass. stacks what doesn't benefit the group like sunder stacks. In solo dungeon farming increasing damage you take is awful idea.

      Tldr the skill is garbage, can be used on black hands, bloodletter just because extra mobility, but ass. stacks help your opponent more than you.
    • Vesen wrote:

      It is pve skill supposed to help with clear speed and let dagger users join groups.
      But it won't work out because cd it too high and/of it gives ass. stacks what doesn't benefit the group like sunder stacks. In solo dungeon farming increasing damage you take is awful idea.

      Tldr the skill is garbage, can be used on black hands, bloodletter just because extra mobility, but ass. stacks help your opponent more than you.
      Honestly daggers won't have amazing aoe regardless of the q and if you fame with them you either adjust for it with aoe gear like the stalker jacket or you focus on the single mobs that give more fame. The aoe q isn't fixing this and like you said it isn't what most daggers even want, I wouldn't use them on blackhands because I would rather get the armor shred since the e doesn't even need stacks for damage.

      Maszke wrote:

      Nah, IMO the skill should have 0 standtime, keep the AoE and apply sunder armor instead of giving you the charges.
      You give it 0 standtime and it just becomes an open world mobility skill, the whole idea with the dash nerf was to lower the out of combat mobility of things like the bloodletter. I would rather give daggers mobility that works mainly during a fight and not running from them.
      Glaive (rip)
      Infernal #1 :D ...ALSO RIP
      I am also eternally poor.
    • I actually quite like the diversity in play style the skill gives though.

      this of course all depends on the range of the skill, anyone happen to know that?

      I am imagining a deathgiver type situation in 5v5, hit a 3 man Q, E a squishy and go invis, hit another 3 man, etc etc, it is WAY less telegraphed than current dagger play.

      This could force some teams to really think about positioning and could punish quite heavily for grouping, if you dont want the dagger to get an insta 3 stack E off on someone.

      As far as 1h dagger, bloodletter, claws and blackhands, i feel like this skill will be left by the wayside, since assassin spirit is very well useless on those weapons.
    • Yea I can see it being really good for deathgivers, they don't have the range posted last I checked but I am not sure I like the idea of a Q skill being built around a single play style. At the moment the stand time makes it really awkward as well, if you jumped in as deathgivers and got 3 stacks, you can't e instantly which gives you counter play I guess but almost means you can be blow up before you can do anything.
      Glaive (rip)
      Infernal #1 :D ...ALSO RIP
      I am also eternally poor.
    • Sadly I think the range is going to be quite pathetic, because if you have a dash on a Q on a 4 second CD that has decent range, its going to be OP for escaping and gap closing.

      I’m hoping the consider making it a decent range, but changing it to :


      Deadly Swipe (Q-slot / all Daggers)

      Damage a targeted area and deals 75 physical damage to all enemies in a 2.5m radius. Applies one stack of Assassin Spirit on yourself per enemy hit, and blinks the player as-long as one enemy is hit, and there are no obstacles in the way.

      Standtime: 0.6s -> 0.45s
      Cooldown: 6s -> 4s
      Radius: 2m -> 2.5m
      Range: 11m
    • I am going to have to agree with you sadly, the new Q doesn't look like it can be good without giving a huge boost to escaping/gap closing.

      The damage into a blink sounds like a much better way to do it than what they have currently, wouldnt even need standtime with that change either. Could be interesting to see, but I can't see daggers almost ever wanting to be that full dive into a group weapon outside of a :bloodletter specter jacket/deathgivers in some fights.
      Glaive (rip)
      Infernal #1 :D ...ALSO RIP
      I am also eternally poor.