Regarding 3rd Party Software and Network Traffic (aka: do not cheat.) [Update: 16:45 UTC, 26.02.20]

  • eversonau wrote:

    felipe128 wrote:

    3. DPS Meter: (deleted)

    - Collects damage data from network packets and display them overlayed in the game.

    For now I believe those are the ones I'd like to get an ok for.
    it's allowed?
    Based on his categories yes, because it doesn't provide any real time information for anyone you don't know where they already are. if it recorded everyone in the zone then it would be not allowed.
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  • TomatoBisque wrote:

    Based on his categories yes, because it doesn't provide any real time information for anyone you don't know where they already are. if it recorded everyone in the zone then it would be not allowed.
    It does provide (realtime, visual) information about who is doing a pve activity nearby. Even though the tool is unlikely meant to be a cheating tool, it is not entirely neutral.
  • @Coliente

    In-game overlays are generally not okay as per the OP. That includes the damage meter. One could argue for an exception here if it would only track party, guild and alliance members. We wouldn't grant such an exception though as it could very well lead to a slippery slope of all sorts of overlays, which then, in aggregate, would provide clear in-game advantages to those who use them. Also, allowing overlays leads to a serious security risk for players - if overlays were allowed and would become widespread, you can be close to 100% sure that some bad actors would distribute "overlays" that include malware. Hence: no overlays

    Beyond that, an overlay showing resource locations and RD locations we'd consider as a clear cut cheat, in particular, as it even gives you benefits in PvP (dungeon diving).
  • Korn wrote:

    @Coliente

    In-game overlays are generally not okay as per the OP. That includes the damage meter. One could argue for an exception here if it would only track party, guild and alliance members. We wouldn't grant such an exception though as it could very well lead to a slippery slope of all sorts of overlays, which then, in aggregate, would provide clear in-game advantages to those who use them. Also, allowing overlays leads to a serious security risk for players - if overlays were allowed and would become widespread, you can be close to 100% sure that some bad actors would distribute "overlays" that include malware. Hence: no overlays

    Beyond that, an overlay showing resource locations and RD locations we'd consider as a clear cut cheat, in particular, as it even gives you benefits in PvP (dungeon diving).
    Wait. What?

    Soo, basically this is allowed:

    i.imgur.com/KDr3yWL.png

    But if I move a bit 2 windows it's not allowed anymore?

    i.imgur.com/vOY9aNP.png

    Not to mention almost every MMORPG game (including UO, Tibia, WoW) allows you to track your DPS so you can LEARN how to improve and make a proper rotation.


    Korn wrote:

    you can be close to 100% sure that some bad actors would distribute "overlays" that include malware.


    1. Community is mature enough to report such a "bad developers".
    2. Either project is on github or it's written in decompilable language which ... people can read and report.

    There is no software which actually injects some DirectX/OpenGL overlay to the albion process. All of the available software is just a windows with window set to topmost (always on top). Which basically you can do with every software ever written (unless that's directx fullscreen which "steals" topmost).



    Korn wrote:

    "Beyond that, an overlay showing resource locations and RD locations we'd consider as a clear cut cheat, in particular, as it even gives you benefits in PvP (dungeon diving)."


    Again. It depends, isn't it?
    If the dungeons are discovered and put on some map by human that should be fine, right? Since, I entered the dungeon, I made a screenshot of it's location and that very screenshot posted to mspaint.exe to keep track the location of dungeons I was in.

    On the other hand, if there is an app scanning packets/memory to gather information about dungeons - that should be considered cheating.

    For example:
    tibia [ ] com/community/?subtopic=fansites
    They even officially support sites with information about mobs respawn, provide exact locations drawn on maps.

    Probably the best example would be pointing out wowhead . Without external software (loot logger, dps meter, map builders, spells information etc) building such a huge knowledge base would be impossible.

    Just look how huge the it is. And now compared to ours:
    - loot logger (every information expanding addon)
    - dps meter (skada, recount)
    - player/mob information
    - maps (gatherermate, gatherer, there is a lot of addons for WoW)
    - battles
    - spells (every information expanding addon)
    - items (every information expanding addon)

    All of this above is considered legal in MMOs world, and some even allow people to share information between them to build even bigger database.

    =====

    So please clarify what do you mean by "overlays", because my Chromium browser can be illegal from now on since I use it with always on top making it "overlay another window" (where another windows = albion window).

    The post was edited 7 times, last by Wydoyolo ().

  • Please, let us use DPS meters, or for god's sake add those to the game at least, they are a big addition to fun and competetivness.
    Every mmo I know either lets to use them or has inbuilt support like wow, to just click from a list of approved mods and pick whatever you like.
    You could make approved addons list just like they do, and add them to official downloads. Many projects like the dps meter are on github so you can easily see if they are safe.

    Just like this one:
    (deleted)
  • Wydoyolo wrote:

    Korn wrote:

    @Coliente

    In-game overlays are generally not okay as per the OP. That includes the damage meter. One could argue for an exception here if it would only track party, guild and alliance members. We wouldn't grant such an exception though as it could very well lead to a slippery slope of all sorts of overlays, which then, in aggregate, would provide clear in-game advantages to those who use them. Also, allowing overlays leads to a serious security risk for players - if overlays were allowed and would become widespread, you can be close to 100% sure that some bad actors would distribute "overlays" that include malware. Hence: no overlays

    Beyond that, an overlay showing resource locations and RD locations we'd consider as a clear cut cheat, in particular, as it even gives you benefits in PvP (dungeon diving).
    Wait. What?
    Soo, basically this is allowed:

    i.imgur.com/KDr3yWL.png

    But if I move a bit 2 windows it's not allowed anymore?

    i.imgur.com/vOY9aNP.png

    Not to mention almost every MMORPG game (including UO, Tibia, WoW) allows you to track your DPS so you can LEARN how to improve and make a proper rotation.


    Korn wrote:

    you can be close to 100% sure that some bad actors would distribute "overlays" that include malware.
    1. Community is mature enough to report such a "bad developers".
    2. Either project is on github or it's written in decompilable language which ... people can read and report.

    There is no software which actually injects some DirectX/OpenGL overlay to the albion process. All of the available software is just a windows with window set to topmost (always on top). Which basically you can do with every software ever written (unless that's directx fullscreen which "steals" topmost).



    Korn wrote:

    "Beyond that, an overlay showing resource locations and RD locations we'd consider as a clear cut cheat, in particular, as it even gives you benefits in PvP (dungeon diving)."
    Again. It depends, isn't it?
    If the dungeons are discovered and put on some map by human that should be fine, right? Since, I entered the dungeon, I made a screenshot of it's location and that very screenshot posted to mspaint.exe to keep track the location of dungeons I was in.

    On the other hand, if there is an app scanning packets/memory to gather information about dungeons - that should be considered cheating.

    For example:
    tibia [ ] com/community/?subtopic=fansites
    They even officially support sites with information about mobs respawn, provide exact locations drawn on maps.

    Probably the best example would be pointing out wowhead . Without external software (loot logger, dps meter, map builders, spells information etc) building such a huge knowledge base would be impossible.

    Just look how huge the it is. And now compared to ours:
    - loot logger (every information expanding addon)
    - dps meter (skada, recount)
    - player/mob information
    - maps (gatherermate, gatherer, there is a lot of addons for WoW)
    - battles
    - spells (every information expanding addon)
    - items (every information expanding addon)

    All of this above is considered legal in MMOs world, and some even allow people to share information between them to build even bigger database.

    =====

    So please clarify what do you mean by "overlays", because my Chromium browser can be illegal from now on since I use it with always on top making it "overlay another window" (where another windows = albion window).
    Im totally with you man, i mean they allow albion2d but if you put that info overlayed its cheating nonsense
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  • Korn wrote:

    Also, allowing overlays leads to a serious security risk for players - if overlays were allowed and would become widespread, you can be close to 100% sure that some bad actors would distribute "overlays" that include malware.

    This is a very poor reason, to say no to an overlay and yes to a website.

    1. A website could have as much bad intentions going on in their js files as a local application.
    2. This would mean that a DPS meter based on a website would be allowed -> you just forward the "parsed" packaged, data to a cloud server and then would just have the rest of the back-end and front-end on a web application, what would be difference in risks? Well the last you don't know which data is going where and could even have more bad intention (example devs would unknowingly gather data of all player locations and such)

    An open-source local application like @WedrowyczJakubwould make much more sense as you can review the application source for any bad intentions and knowing the data is only stored in local memory and not on some server. (If for example I would work around your policy right now with a cloud webapp version of his dps meter I would not put it open-source bcs of security reasons of my cloud environment)

    Obviously it would be possible to workaround having secrets in the source code for example having db passwords in environment variables and stored encrypted in the source, but it would take quite some architectural challenges in the open-source project for the contributing devs.

    IMO you should have a policy/process to allow such/whitelist application as DPS meters because of several reasons a add-on like a DPS/Heal meter mentioned by others already.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Aliseon ().

  • Korn wrote:

    @Coliente

    In-game overlays are generally not okay as per the OP. That includes the damage meter. One could argue for an exception here if it would only track party, guild and alliance members. We wouldn't grant such an exception though as it could very well lead to a slippery slope of all sorts of overlays, which then, in aggregate, would provide clear in-game advantages to those who use them. Also, allowing overlays leads to a serious security risk for players - if overlays were allowed and would become widespread, you can be close to 100% sure that some bad actors would distribute "overlays" that include malware. Hence: no overlays

    Beyond that, an overlay showing resource locations and RD locations we'd consider as a clear cut cheat, in particular, as it even gives you benefits in PvP (dungeon diving).

    @Korn I undestand that in game overlays are not allowed. This one is clear.

    What about external applications? (deleted: Albion Online Stats) is one of them. Is usage of external application which isn't aware of Albion process, like aostats allowed?


    If not, please let me know what should be changed to make it officially legal. I'm going to apply changes according to your statement as soon as possible.
  • Hi everyone,

    Seeing as there has been a fair amount of interest in this topic, we have decided to move all requests to clarify what is and isn't allowed to support@albiononline.com

    Just to give you some examples: Albion Online 2D and Albion Data Project are generally ok to use for now, but if the scope of the software changes in the future, then please be aware that our stance on it might change too. So when in doubt, always check with in with support.

    We have also reviewed that posting links to said software in this thread may not be the appropriate channel to address this. Therefore, I have removed those links from your posts and closed this thread.

    Please contact support if you wish seek clarification on a specific software.

    Mytherceria#3744