Adjustment to the Alliance Cap Test on February 26th

    • The heavy taxing of territories is fine and its cool that its splitting up the world. Where it will slowly create more dramas and wars between past allies. But I have several issues I want to talk about with the disarray debuff. Sure disarray is a good thing when its a small guild vs a large force. But in the past and still now the small force has focus fire which lowers the damage taken. Plus they have aoe escalation to help them do crazy damage. The disarray on top of that is reasonable even tho its very punishing. Here is the problem for end game max sized fights tho. Since Queen came out 150 vs 150 have been 90% + of the endgame fights. That has put a 20-30% disarray debuff on all players. So thats like being permanently pierced. This has turned the meta to where only the top guilds of that alliance are even allowed to show up to that zvz in that zone. What are the other guilds doing? Not even logging on for it. Or doing a mage boss killing group for one or two terries. Once in awhile there was 1 low quality secondary fight in a different zone. Usually there isnt a secondary fight. Now because of the taxing and the heavy debuffs. Alliances have dropped guilds and downsized. Plus split up.the disarray debuff is doubled. You get one shot so easily. The dps meta is changed forever because everyone is so squishy from the debuff. Even before the doubled disarray its like this for queen. So its even less feasible to fight as one guild against say 5 guilds with less debuff. What is the logic in having a debuff at all in a 150v150? It punishes solo guilds or smaller alliances for having less fronts. But now even more so then queens start where the meta was forced to evolve. Lesser skilled forces in an alliance are not allowed to come to the fight, because they contribute to making the debuff even more punishing for your side. What are they to do? Not login at all or wait in another zone until the fights over? There usually isnt fights going on in adjacent zones. Maybe 1% of the major fights so far has had that happen. Ive been in around 100 max sized zvz's since queen and thats been the case. You are now forced to take many battlemounts, mainly because of the disarray. If you dont take battlemounts you can lose wayyyy easier. Id rather see no debuff at all at max sized content. People were trying to say that the debuffs cancel each other out, But thats not the case. Every zvz you have a debuff when who is it helping? you are fighting 150v150.. The cluster queue is all the game really needed. Im thankful that we have the queue even tho its not perfect. That way you cannot zone cap anymore. So now when 20 guilds want to send their zvz forces to fight in some battles or over an objective. Not everyone gets to fight. Only the most elite of each guild are allowed to join the fight. So thats like 5 guilds on 5 guilds. What do the other guilds get to do? Nothing. The worse guilds dont get to show up unless they have a proper caller and party. Otherwise they are put on mage boss duty, which will take 2 days of doing that before they just dont log on for cta. Sure a couple more secondary fights will slowly evolve and happen. But usually its one zone where the action is. One zone where the objective is. Only the major battles for hideouts have skirmishes outside of the major battle. During the poe and coalition vs squad war at the start of queen we saw a few side battles and skirmishes. Its not like there is multiple objectives for one guild in the same timezone usually. Final conclusion. The debuff sucks, no one likes it. No one wants it. No one needs it except small guilds/alliances as long as they are no longer in an actual "alliance" anymore. Otherwise no they dont need it either. They are debuffing themselves to where they have less of a chance to win the battle. Since any organized zerg will have multiple fronts with most guilds outside of alliance.
    • I think what we want is not possible. every day content of even fights between the best guilds in their own zones so lesser entities can have their own space.

      nah this doesnt make sense. if you are a top dog, that would challenge your power/status, some day you win-some day you loose.. to your direct opponent? nah. those guys have most power because they choose how/when to fight and they take every advantage there is. its financial, morale, reputation, content for your members, propaganda-you got to look like a winner, its human behauviour, imo this why handholding is big, POE and squad fought super hard int he first days and there wasnt a clear winner so they went back to what the rich and powerful do-prey on weaker. what people want is for the absolute best players, the leaders that make other people follow them, to put the work in leading guilds/alliances and then to reject certain advantages bc of some perceived fairness/equality-they cannot do that. for example BA, as the best, at least one of has always shown up in super high gear, trying to outgear their opponents. and you see it now, they changed their alliances, downgraded but it is still the same. they show with numbers and force that can and will overwhelm most groups. removing alliances wouldnt have solved the underlying issue.

      this game is a social experiment and it is a quite good one. and queen represented a huge change and the powerful prepared bc they are not allowed not to be. they made sure that they get big chunks of this new world and take the advantages.
      an interesting question is why do people join them? maybe they cant get to the best FF spots or gathering or whatever and instead of joining a smaller guild that wants to fight for that and attack the supreme powers they give up and join them. ppl could also adapt and just stay "small", as in royal zone or find another way. but most want the best fame, the best silver, best gathering.. some dont accept not having that but are unhappy about the consequences (and are quite aggressive defending their choices on forums).
      and a lot that hasnt joined yet is failing in being able to meaningfully fight/resist the mega alliances and want other ppl (devs, leaders) to solve a problem that they couldnt. imo they are mad at human behauviour.. look at history, the stronger has always just bullied,taken from the weaker its just that we dont hear much from the loosers and we all see ourselves as at least part of the deserving.

      the world is evolving though and it has been all along. imo there are more different mega allainces than ever in the past, think about season 1,2, the coalition. now the world map changed and that is a huge thing, that will bring a lot of changes naturally with it. and it is happening already. the biggest thing that will destroy the mega alliances is that lots of members will not enjoy constant CTAs against groups that cannot put up any fight, that is ultimately boring (on the other hand ganking newbies and defenseless players is still a thing :) ) so maybe ppl do enjoy winning no matter how little of an accomplishement it is.

      whatever. Im curious to see how things develop.
    • I don't have any fear. Alliance issue happened and it was tackled with the speed of light.

      Even round table could not interfere as SBI knows by own experience exactly what to do.

      They even fine tuned disarray last minute and now almost all issues with mega Alliance solved in no time..

      I am sure, after intense research and neglecting the RT backfire, they will

      Cap alliance to 300
      Put increase trash rate for super ganks
      Make hideout public or Alliance only
      Move the portal around
      Put blackmarket in the rests
      And in the next patch implement 1 on 1 on 1 dungeons

      Hype!!!
    • Got this idea: Make a system of rivals, so it cap a map to be only x number of neutral guild/alliance {[(or none)]} and prioritize rivals to have a competition for the objective.
      Guilds that aren't in alliance but play along with each other would need to be rival of x% of the people/guild/alliance inside to enter.
      Can get a rival tag if kill x(%?) or do x% of damage to a number of people or getting outposts or castles or territories or cities of other guild or alliance.
      When a guild enter an alliance it get the same rivals as the alliance.
      It would prevent quitting an alliance to enter the map with more number, and if neutral want or need to be in map x it should kill x(%?) number of people or do x% of damage in other map or get an outpost or castle...
      Seeing that the number of people wanting to enter the "big fight" is really big.
      I got some posts already in suggestions about others things check that. <3

      The post was edited 8 times, last by Amone ().

    • Introduce this so that the wizards need to be defended.
      Considering that a territory generates 50 season points at the end of the day. The points would be divided into negative half and positive half, example:
      0-25-50

      If at the end of the day the points are between 0 and below 25, those points will be lost by the dominant guild in the territory.
      If at the end of the day the points are 25 or above, those points will be earned as season points by the dominant guild in the territory.
    • Akhenaden wrote:

      Introduce this so that the wizards need to be defended.
      Considering that a territory generates 50 season points at the end of the day. The points would be divided into negative half and positive half, example:
      0-25-50

      If at the end of the day the points are between 0 and below 25, those points will be lost by the dominant guild in the territory.
      If at the end of the day the points are 25 or above, those points will be earned as season points by the dominant guild in the territory.
      Do you not understand how mages already work? Points from territories are already earned based on up time of the mages. Killing the mages already earns you season points.
    • SirusX715 wrote:

      Akhenaden wrote:

      Introduce this so that the wizards need to be defended.
      Considering that a territory generates 50 season points at the end of the day. The points would be divided into negative half and positive half, example:
      0-25-50

      If at the end of the day the points are between 0 and below 25, those points will be lost by the dominant guild in the territory.
      If at the end of the day the points are 25 or above, those points will be earned as season points by the dominant guild in the territory.
      Do you not understand how mages already work? Points from territories are already earned based on up time of the mages. Killing the mages already earns you season points.
      Did you even read what I wrote? I suggested losing points, rather than just stop earning points.
    • tabooshka wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      In the current top 15 in season rankings, there are effectively no alliances (only a few with main guild + feeder guild). SBI may get their alliance capping test after all, without actually doing it.
      well, the fact that they dont have alliance tag doesnt mean they dont exist.

      They don't get the benefit of having the tag, though. Currently, we're seeing much the same effect as a hard alliance cap of 600.
    • Roccandil wrote:

      tabooshka wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      In the current top 15 in season rankings, there are effectively no alliances (only a few with main guild + feeder guild). SBI may get their alliance capping test after all, without actually doing it.
      well, the fact that they dont have alliance tag doesnt mean they dont exist.
      They don't get the benefit of having the tag, though. Currently, we're seeing much the same effect as a hard alliance cap of 600.
      yea, they get more benefits to not having it.
    • true. but there were so many people angry at SBI for cancelling/changing the test. and all that test would have done is removing alliances on paper - that has happened anyway. The arguments, SBI listening to the RoundTable and ignoring its players..etc, etc turned to be pointless.

      there is still work to do, to change the n+1 way of winning.
    • jack12 wrote:

      The arguments, SBI listening to the RoundTable and ignoring its players..etc, etc turned to be pointless.
      This argument exists because the concept of what RT really is.
      Yes, there are all the representatives of the guilds that were classified in the season, but RT also has other players that are not related to the Guilds but with other aspects of the game, not to mention that most guilds have contradictory ideas between them, which means that even if they decide, it would always be a 50 50 game.