Red flag hunting Faction flag in yellow zone

    • Korn wrote:

      1. Change the system such that red flagged players can be executed in yellow zones. That would fix the issue. The downside is that it would prevent the open world knockdown PvP between reds that can in theory happen in yellow zones. Does anybody here have a good feeling for how popular this actually is?

      2. Change the system such that red flagged players cannot attack faction players in yellow zones. That would be very odd in our view as it's quite inconsistent.

      3. Change the system such that faction warfare in itself in yellow and blue zones becomes knockdown only. Rewards for being faction flagged in yellow and blue would be lowered and would be increased in the red zones accordingly. We'd also set up a solution that still allows trade packs to be looted just as before. What's interesting here is that - come the improved faciton warfare system planned in one of our upcoming updates - it could become a very good training ground to help players to eventually transition to full loot PvP proper.

      Which one of these would you prefer and why? Any other ideas? Please let us know.

      Korn wrote:

      Another option:

      4. Treat "red flagged" as a pseudo-faction. This means that "reds" can kill faction flagged players and be killed by them, also in blue and yellow zones. The key difference is though that reds can of course still attack reds, and that reds would be subject to the reputation system.

      1. Yes, this is very popular. Personally - i do not see a big problem in it , but for new players/casual players it is really a bad mechanic. People are abusing it more and more often , that's why it must be fixed soon as you can. About your fist suggestion @Korn - yes it will fix it, but it is a bad way, i see tones of people every day , they are testing builds and just having casual PvP fun. So that's why it is bad.
      2. Same , this will fix the problem. But will change PvP concept , which i personally don't like.
      3. Do not even think about it. Let me explain why , people everyday gathering in Faction Zergs and siege enemy Faction cities - it leads to non stop fights , where even solo/small groups can have lot's of fun. I'll tell you even more - people from EvE Online and other games - log into Albion just to participate in such full loot/random zerg Faction fights. It is actually a miracle , how people transform this into a fun content - sandbox as it is. If i were you SBI - i would develop(upgrade) this idea into something bigger. it is really a fun content.
      4.This is a bad idea too. It wil ruin core concept of casual PvP fun . It will flip flop :D this situation , where Faction people will hunt PK newbies. And will stop newbies from trying to make any PvP activity in yellow zones, since they will understand how risky it is. Which will lead to less casual PvP activity , and this is bad.

      So among all suggestions , the only good option - is the second one/2.0 :!: But as said before - i do not like it too.
      ----
      I got my own suggestion.

      1. When PK players hit you(yellow zone) - you will get a buff , which will give you protection from faction execution if you die during it's duration. So you will be able to get up with protection bubble buff and run away.

      • Duration of this buff will be 60 seconds. And will refresh if PK player attack you (or use any CC ability) again in yellow zone. P.S It will refresh ONLY IF PK hits you , otherwise people might abuse it hardly.
      • This buff will end instantly if you change claster.
      • Even If you die on last seconds of it's duration - your execution will not be possible. It will be just always active during your "stand up time"
      • And the most important thing - you will get this buff only if you are solo/without a group. Otherwise this mechanic might ruin gameplay for lot's of people who are just having fun and trying to fight, like in my example with city sieges.
      • You will not be able to get this buff for 5 mins , when you left group. This will protect this system from abusing it too.
      Downside of this mechanic - is that people might abuse it via Alt. accounts/Friends , to get Faction execution protection to protect faction outposts in yellow zones safely/or to fight safely while faction flaged yellow zones. BUT thanks to low duration - it will be very hard , almost impossible and not worth to do this.

      Reason why there is restrictions and rules - is because in 90% only solo/new/casual players suffer from such mechanic. Hope my feedback was useful.
      ---

      Btw @Korn Think about upgrades for city sieges, the only thing your team is need to do - is to upgrade it a bit and inspire people to do it more often. It could be transformed into something huge and epic , and the most important - content for everyone.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Equart ().

    • Korn wrote:

      1. Change the system such that red flagged players can be executed in yellow zones. That would fix the issue. The downside is that it would prevent the open world knockdown PvP between reds that can in theory happen in yellow zones. Does anybody here have a good feeling for how popular this actually is?

      Captainrussia wrote:

      Ravenar wrote:

      2) new issue will be blues knocking down reds and any factions finishing them off
      That should be a much smaller "issue" (really a non-issue) and people flagged red - should be well aware of what the F* they're doing. I love emergent gameplay! Currently only 2 games on the entire MMO market offer that: Eve Online and Albion.
      @Korn do not forget the anti-ganking players. This is still something that people do. Hunting reds as non-flagged (blue) in yellow/red zones.

      @Captainrussia yes people flagging red should know. Until now they have been knocked down by disorganized blue minizergs, but if change is done that reds can be executed, a gang of blues can take down a red and a faction guy can execute. It is a huge change for new players. It should at least be clearly told to players when they flag if this is implemented. Otherwise it will be surprise & frustration.

      And the example shown by @Roccandil is an excellent reason not to remove this yellow gameplay. We need more stuff like this :)
      IGN/Discord : Ravenar#2076
      Join Albion

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Ravenar ().

    • paxprobellum wrote:

      It's been said several times in this thread, but it seems like the right way to address this is:

      Faction flagged players that are killed by reds cannot be executed by a faction flagged player.
      Yeah i don't know why this option wasn't listed, If a player gets downed by a red then simply not allow faction flagged players to execute, its pretty simple if they added a buff that listed they were downed by a red which would in-return not allow faction flagged players to execute.
    • DEVS : dont think, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ! if that not the good option people gonna tell you that was a bad idea , but DONT FREAKING LET THAT GOING ON WHEN YOU KNOW THAT's A PROBLEME

      i feel like you, devs , are just lazzy to take decision cause its a "sandbox game" . sandbox game need rules cause if not there community drop down, take decision make people happy or unhappy to LEARN something, DONT DO NOTHING and say , we can do that and that and that. JUST DO IT

      YOUR THE DEVS WE ARE PLAYERS, RIGHT ? so you create content , we play it , and WE say what's wrong , but WE pay so YOU take those decision , right now YOU ask US what you need to do, BUT NO , NO NO NO , that does work that way cause you , DEVS, are PAYED , and WE PAY to have fun , NOT TO WRITE ON FREAKING FORUMS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.
    • ho sorry, they changed there FREAKING map for no reason , before changing that "tiny" probleme, and NOW they got probleme with there NEW OUTLAND not needed XD

      that's there probleme, we didn"t had probleme with the old system , no one was complaining about it, so they could took the time to ACTUALY change thoses "TINY" problems that are in numbers, but they choose to say "fuck, we dont give a shit" during a long time and , now they got new probleme, we should think that we are lucky that they look at those "TINY" problems cause they got tons of shit going on ?

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Beacheers ().

    • Slamz wrote:

      What if faction warfare replaced flag warfare?

      That is, you can no longer just "flag red". Flagging up is done by joining a faction.
      • Faction A vs Faction B: current rules
      • Faction A vs Faction A: current rules
      • Faction vs "no faction" players: same rules as flagged vs unflagged
        • In a red zone, Faction players can kill "no faction" players and loot them.
        • In a yellow zone, Faction players can down "no faction" players but can't kill them or loot them.
        • In a blue zone, Faction players can't do anything to "no faction" players
      • "No faction" vs Faction: same rules as unflagged vs flagged
      • "No faction" vs "No faction": same rules as unflagged vs unflagged




      Seems to me, the flagging system is unnecessary and we should just go full on faction flagging.
      I might be tired and not thinking straight but this might be just pure genius!

      Make reputation faction based and you can be notorious in Martlock and High rep in Bridgewatch if you do a lot of faction warfare...

      That could be awesome?!

      This could be a bigger change than the other options but in the long run probably the coolest by far.
      IGN/Discord : Ravenar#2076
      Join Albion
    • Korn wrote:

      Hey there,

      we are aware of this issues and are looking at various ways this could be fixed.

      There are different ways in principle to tackle this. Here are a few possibilities - all with pros and cons:

      1. Change the system such that red flagged players can be executed in yellow zones. That would fix the issue. The downside is that it would prevent the open world knockdown PvP between reds that can in theory happen in yellow zones. Does anybody here have a good feeling for how popular this actually is?

      2. Change the system such that red flagged players cannot attack faction players in yellow zones. That would be very odd in our view as it's quite inconsistent.

      3. Change the system such that faction warfare in itself in yellow and blue zones becomes knockdown only. Rewards for being faction flagged in yellow and blue would be lowered and would be increased in the red zones accordingly. We'd also set up a solution that still allows trade packs to be looted just as before. What's interesting here is that - come the improved faciton warfare system planned in one of our upcoming updates - it could become a very good training ground to help players to eventually transition to full loot PvP proper.

      Which one of these would you prefer and why? Any other ideas? Please let us know.
      1. I can't speak to how much knockdown PvP happens between red players in yellow zones. This doesn't seem like a bad solution though.

      Something else that could be implemented in addition, Allow players to flag red in blue zones, only red players can attack other red players, knockdown only.
      this would allow them to have a space to practice open world knockdown PvP.

      2. I agree, it feels out of place.

      3. This is the "safest" solution, works mechanically, but reduces the risk involved in faction warfare.

      Korn wrote:

      Another option:

      4. Treat "red flagged" as a pseudo-faction. This means that "reds" can kill faction flagged players and be killed by them, also in blue and yellow zones. The key difference is though that reds can of course still attack reds, and that reds would be subject to the reputation system.
      4. While I like this solution, I feel that it could easily be exploited by the same high tier geared individuals that are exploiting the current system. Instead of needing a faction flagged buddy with them, they can just straight up execute you.

      This isn't an easy problem to solve.

      Of all the ideas proposed I think number 3 even with its drawbacks would allow for the best outcomes for players involved in faction warfare.

      However number 4 just feels like it would add risk to the behavior of people flagging red in the yellow zones.
      Guild Master of American Craftsman
      ~Discord gb5Xdpr~
      T8 Quarrier, Miner, Lumberjack, Skinner, Harvester
    • Neef wrote:

      paxprobellum wrote:

      It's been said several times in this thread, but it seems like the right way to address this is:

      Faction flagged players that are killed by reds cannot be executed by a faction flagged player.
      Yeah i don't know why this option wasn't listed, If a player gets downed by a red then simply not allow faction flagged players to execute, its pretty simple if they added a buff that listed they were downed by a red which would in-return not allow faction flagged players to execute.
      What most of them already end up doing is having them on bloodletter escape builds and dismount and finish, or execute. So there’d also have to be some prevention to that, I simply think that making red players unable to attack faction in yellow only is a simple solution, because they’ll just start using diving builds, dive the low hp guy, run away
    • Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      Neef wrote:

      paxprobellum wrote:

      It's been said several times in this thread, but it seems like the right way to address this is:

      Faction flagged players that are killed by reds cannot be executed by a faction flagged player.
      Yeah i don't know why this option wasn't listed, If a player gets downed by a red then simply not allow faction flagged players to execute, its pretty simple if they added a buff that listed they were downed by a red which would in-return not allow faction flagged players to execute.
      What most of them already end up doing is having them on bloodletter escape builds and dismount and finish, or execute. So there’d also have to be some prevention to that, I simply think that making red players unable to attack faction in yellow only is a simple solution, because they’ll just start using diving builds, dive the low hp guy, run away
      yeah this is true. prob the best option is just not allow faction to execute downed players that were downed to reds and not allow red flagged players to attack faction players.
    • why not make hard flagging a faction its self... caerleon faction can be flagged,anywhere bandit,faction, then a red killing a faction player kills them a faction player kills red they die. but red hits blue in a yellow its knockdown.

      edit
      oh i see this barried in page 2, should be a way in forums to skip to dev replies i didnt expect more than 1,

      but ya not a psuedo faction just bandit tie their rewarda to caerleon but let them flag anywhere, and they could earn point differently, lower pve points but give them kill points based on pvp fame on kill... i know thats a rough subject tho... so maybe they are like normal but can get blues, just around caerleon they would be out farming faction points....

      The post was edited 1 time, last by blappo ().

    • Neef wrote:

      Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      Neef wrote:

      paxprobellum wrote:

      It's been said several times in this thread, but it seems like the right way to address this is:

      Faction flagged players that are killed by reds cannot be executed by a faction flagged player.
      Yeah i don't know why this option wasn't listed, If a player gets downed by a red then simply not allow faction flagged players to execute, its pretty simple if they added a buff that listed they were downed by a red which would in-return not allow faction flagged players to execute.
      What most of them already end up doing is having them on bloodletter escape builds and dismount and finish, or execute. So there’d also have to be some prevention to that, I simply think that making red players unable to attack faction in yellow only is a simple solution, because they’ll just start using diving builds, dive the low hp guy, run away
      yeah this is true. prob the best option is just not allow faction to execute downed players that were downed to reds and not allow red flagged players to attack faction players.
      i think the reason being that if a faction hits a player with 1 auto attack then 5 reds kill them.. do they get executed? does that solve anything
    • Neef wrote:

      Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      Neef wrote:

      paxprobellum wrote:

      It's been said several times in this thread, but it seems like the right way to address this is:

      Faction flagged players that are killed by reds cannot be executed by a faction flagged player.
      Yeah i don't know why this option wasn't listed, If a player gets downed by a red then simply not allow faction flagged players to execute, its pretty simple if they added a buff that listed they were downed by a red which would in-return not allow faction flagged players to execute.
      What most of them already end up doing is having them on bloodletter escape builds and dismount and finish, or execute. So there’d also have to be some prevention to that, I simply think that making red players unable to attack faction in yellow only is a simple solution, because they’ll just start using diving builds, dive the low hp guy, run away
      yeah this is true. prob the best option is just not allow faction to execute downed players that were downed to reds and not allow red flagged players to attack faction players.
      Exactly my point Blappo
    • Korn wrote:

      1. Change the system such that red flagged players can be executed in yellow zones. That would fix the issue. The downside is that it would prevent the open world knockdown PvP between reds that can in theory happen in yellow zones. Does anybody here have a good feeling for how popular this actually is?

      2. Change the system such that red flagged players cannot attack faction players in yellow zones. That would be very odd in our view as it's quite inconsistent.

      3. Change the system such that faction warfare in itself in yellow and blue zones becomes knockdown only. Rewards for being faction flagged in yellow and blue would be lowered and would be increased in the red zones accordingly. We'd also set up a solution that still allows trade packs to be looted just as before. What's interesting here is that - come the improved faciton warfare system planned in one of our upcoming updates - it could become a very good training ground to help players to eventually transition to full loot PvP proper.

      I'd prefer any of these options over the current system, but i guess option 2 would be preferred. Faction wars should be fought between factions, and you should have to flag up to have any impact on their outcome.

      Honestly though, I've never understood why flagging up and downing people in a yellow zone is a thing. The red flagged person doesn't get any benefit from downing other players, other then the satisfaction of causing someone else pain. If you got rid of being able to down people in the yellow zones you might solve this problem as well as the issue of people holding overburdened people hostage for ransom, and this new issue with people using Fear & Wind Wall spells to push people into red zones. Just make it all or nothing.
    • Faction warfare in yellowzones

      Currently small scale faction warfare is dominated by large groups of red gankers without faction flags ambushing faction warfare players while having just 1 executioner who is faction flagged in the party to kill them once their target been knocked down.

      It ruins the viability of solo faction warfare and puts players in high risk no reward engagements that take away from the fun of faction warfare pvp.

      I'd like to propose that if a player is downed by a red player in a yellowzone they become unable to be executed during the recovery time by a faction warfare player.

      This will force faction flagged players to earn their own kills and put an end to virtually risk free killfarming by guilds and alliances looking for easy loot with no risk to themselves.
    • I think option 4 would be best as it also helps with another problem. Currently many red players like to camp the gates between yellow and red zones because if trouble comes up they can just simply flee the red into yellow zone safely.

      With option 4, red players in yellow zone could be killed by other reds meaning if the pker's flee into the yellow zones, blues could knock them down and then one or two flag up and start executing them.

      This should make things a bit more fair all around. Just make sure that the conditional flagged zones work the same as they always have so there is no executing unless the player that went into the conditional circle was faction or hostile flagged.