There's virtually no point to melee in this game.

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    • Throatcutter wrote:

      Assasin jacket move faster while invis? As if invis ganking wasn't a huge plague already, it would also make gatherers easy prey as they would pop ambush moment they saw offscreen tag and if the gatherer didn't spot it they would be on them before they saw anything, it would also give rise to easy invis brimstone bombing etc, too many sketchy builds in my head with this.
      Maybe you don't know this, but Assassin Jacket has a limited range you can move before you break the invisibility. It's a very minute range at that, smaller than a Bow's auto attack range.

      Throatcutter wrote:

      The hunter jacket adding move speed? Sorry this just gives rise to too many kitey builds, albion already has issues with kitey builds and rats it would break the game.
      And yet another suggestion fixes this. At it's standing, it's pretty useless and Melee's toughest problem is closing the distance. I also suggested the duration go down, and that would mean that the kiting ranged in question would be dealing overall less damage and wouldn't have things like Mage Robe for the purge/armor buff. If anything, it's now on par for most Cloth and benefits Melee more imo. Maybe spears would overpower with it.

      I would absolutely love to see a 12% Movement Speed Bonus added to Leather, and I would love even more to see Melee weapons like Dagger get a straight up movement speed passive.

      Throatcutter wrote:

      Don't get caught up trying to compare one armor or weapon line to another which is where I think you have gone so wrong with your thread, they all fill a role or purpose, find what you enjoy and own it. It's not all about max dps and brimstone claps.
      I'm not ignorant enough to think that direct comparisons is the end-all, but I am experienced enough to notice that some weapons in this game directly replace others due to reliability concerns. Dagger Pair is effective, but it's way too easy to counter and not many things to prevent it from being countered. Crossbow, on the other hand, fills the same role, is ranged, and way more reliable to pull off.

      Throatcutter wrote:

      I guarantee if you took the time to spec up leather and melee and use it in its correct role, and expand your awareness of counter play you will find its actually far better than you think it is.
      If I have 400/400 spec and I go against a 20/400 spec yeah, I'll notice it; that's why I'm not commenting on that and it's one of the reasons that Arenas can be somewhat reliable: everybody is at the same IP. I'm not winning fights because I have more numbers or higher IP, but at the same time there *are* weapons and armor in the game that don't shine until higher IP values (many abilities in this game straight-up don't scale). That being said, in everything I have discussed, I have done my best to use numbers and reasoning to explain where I feel it sits.

      EDIT: So I just checked out Avalonian Shoes of Tenacity? Holy crap those really help against a variety of ranged builds as a melee. We need more abilities like that which are easier to access. It really hurts a lot of ranged in the game and are on a short CD that meshes well with Melee.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Acoustic: New info. ().

    • moking wrote:

      Theat wrote:

      The title of this thread is "no point to melee"

      Tank weapons are melee.

      You lose.


      NEXT!!!
      reads the title
      ignores the discussion

      retard confirmed
      Don't want to waste my time with troll-threads, especially Captain Troll threads.

      Melee is consistently stronger than Ranged. Including Tanks, because tanks are melee.


      (Not my fault you can't write a cohesive, well-thought-out thread, blame yourself instead.)
    • OP has almost no pvp fame and self admittedly almost exclusively plays arena.

      Its not that he can't write a well thought out thread, as it went on he's written it quite well and he is convinced he is accurate.

      The problem is he just doesn't know enough about the game/have wide spread experience of the game yet to make an accurate statement, he is relying only on arena experience and stats, and stats only tell half the story at best.
    • Throatcutter wrote:

      OP has almost no pvp fame and self admittedly almost exclusively plays arena.

      Its not that he can't write a well thought out thread, as it went on he's written it quite well and he is convinced he is accurate.

      The problem is he just doesn't know enough about the game/have wide spread experience of the game yet to make an accurate statement, he is relying only on arena experience and stats, and stats only tell half the story at best.
      This is why i don't even bother to answer this thread anymore. He thinks because i have 70mil pvp fame i obviously made them only during zvz (which is completely false, 20 mil are done only in zvz, 20mil solo, 30 mil small scale) and believes that i have no clue at all what is actually good overall and what's bad LMFAO
    • Owlsane wrote:

      This is why i don't even bother to answer this thread anymore. He thinks because i have 70mil pvp fame i obviously made them only during zvz (which is completely false, 20 mil are done only in zvz, 20mil solo, 30 mil small scale) and believes that i have no clue at all what is actually good overall and what's bad LMFAO
      Why do you think because you have PVP fame you know anything? I've explained multiple times, used examples, numbers, and evidence to provide my arguments the ground to stand on. I didn't just scream I HAVE 70 MILLION PVP FAME I AM BETTER THAN YOU 1H DAGGER IS GOD TIER OVERPOWERED, THROW A STALKER JACKET ON THAT AND IT'S ZVZ META NOOB and expected people to take me seriously. Why not support your argument with logic and facts instead of, "My number is high so I'm better than you"? It's quite obvious that you aren't as smart as you think you are, and that should be a wake up call.

      Your PVP fame quite literally means absolutely nothing to anybody.

      Throatcutter wrote:

      OP has almost no pvp fame and self admittedly almost exclusively plays arena.

      Its not that he can't write a well thought out thread, as it went on he's written it quite well and he is convinced he is accurate.

      The problem is he just doesn't know enough about the game/have wide spread experience of the game yet to make an accurate statement, he is relying only on arena experience and stats, and stats only tell half the story at best.
      And this is a good reason why that PVP fame means nothing, because this guy says Stalker Jacket is meta but can't explain why and hasn't formed a single coherent argument this entire thread and has done nothing but attack me as a person instead of my arguments. I've already demonstrated that Throatcutter has problems with basic reading comprehension, whether by accident with sheer ignorance or intellectual dishonesty as a knee-jerk reaction to being unable to argue against what I've said.

      This has been an enjoyable thread.
    • Not sure about your thread.

      I agree that cloth is pretty strong in the meta atm and plate armor is pretty useless in solo pvp.

      Although I don't think that leather is weak. Flate dmg stats aren't everything. Most of the active leather skills are really great i.e. gives you opportunities to burst ppl without any trigger.

      To the topic melee weapons: I don't agree at all. Melee weapons have some of the best active abilities in the game, with high mobility and dmg.

      It might be true that melee is harder to master compaired to ranged due to the kit, but skill level shouldn't matter.
    • Well, pretty wrong

      In Solo PvP u can basically kill a lot of people in Plate, if it is true solo..

      Use a demon cape, Hunter shoes and a soldier armor..any weapon with good CC and u have a valid chance..e.g. grovekeeper or infernal..or a simple quarterstaff.. heck even a black monk can do the job..

      Exploit increased CC while put people in lava..
    • Hollywoodi wrote:

      Well, pretty wrong

      In Solo PvP u can basically kill a lot of people in Plate, if it is true solo..

      Use a demon cape, Hunter shoes and a soldier armor..any weapon with good CC and u have a valid chance..e.g. grovekeeper or infernal..or a simple quarterstaff.. heck even a black monk can do the job..

      Exploit increased CC while put people in lava..
      No one said that you can't kill players with plate.

      I can kill ppl with a holystaff too. Is it effective? No.
    • Heliande wrote:

      Not sure about your thread.
      That's fine, that's why we talk about these things.

      Heliande wrote:

      I agree that cloth is pretty strong in the meta atm and plate armor is pretty useless in solo pvp.
      Cloth is basically mandatory if you're dealing damage. Even PVE clears are massively faster and safer using cloth. Plate is kind of out of the equation because it's not designed for damage, but the problem stems that damage scales way better than defense, so even using Plate to, "tank" DPS doesn't reduce the damage enough to warrant it as a viable strategy for being anything other than the dedicated tank role. The gap between Leather and Cloth is huge in power right now, but according to other posters Leather used to be really strong. I wouldn't know as I started playing during the Steam Launch and I don't remember much about leather at that point.

      Heliande wrote:

      Although I don't think that leather is weak. Flate dmg stats aren't everything. Most of the active leather skills are really great i.e. gives you opportunities to burst ppl without any trigger.
      Flat Damage isn't everything, but the problem is that the active skills on leather are garbage in comparison. Every single one sans Specter Jacket/Assassin Jacket (actually not sure about this one, never tested, probably can be purged on-hit) can be purged by Mage Robe which is a meta item for having high damage, high defense (the shield gives you Plate levels of armor for 8 seconds), and purging out-right ruining many builds in the game while being a constant purge and not just a short-termed one. Stalker/Hellion/Specter jackets can be kited, as can Hunter/Merc on melee (I think Axe only benefits from Merc as a Melee because of the bleed). Because Damage and Defense don't scale properly, you're basically guaranteed to lose Leather vs Cloth with a handful of exceptions like Ambushing with Dagger Pair, especially since it's unanimous that Robe abilities are much stronger than anything Leather can output. The only time this changes is in 5v5s, where Melee can tank more hits and be more efficient on healers than ranged, but that brings up my main complaint in this entire thread: Melee DPS is basically a support role that isn't strictly necessary and you never want more than one of them per group.

      The biggest problem I still have in this game is that Ranged is always advantageous, and Cloth just makes this gap even wider. You can have 58% bonus damage on your top, while having the strongest defensive spells in the game, at ranged. It breaks the entire flow of the game. Ranged should be strong, especially if it's sacrificing defense; but the abilities on Robes are also super strong on top of that. There was some toning down the last patch that saw Fiend and Cultist robe get hit a little bit, but it didn't change anything much. Melee still has problems landing hits, ranged still has the advantages doing consistent high damage with enough defensive abilities to survive basically anything. A lot of people disagree with me on this, but I think there's a disconnect somewhere. In 5v5s (I'm not on an official team but I scrim often enough with my alliance) the melee DPS just tanks hits and supports while the tank CCs and takes hits and the ranged DPS melts everything. In 2v2s it's a bit different, there's less overall ranged damage so once a melee gets in you can usually do something and there's limited room to run, and in solo wild PVP it's a complete gamble but I definitely feel like Melee is easier to account and counter than any of the ranged options since there's so many blatant anti-melee tools in the game; but there's still things like Double Warbow which is meta and insanely strong because of constant pokes of high damage.

      I don't know what the solution is, which is why this is in rants; but most of my experience is Arenas which is a completely even field with people using their best choices that basically forces them into fights and 4 ranged+healer basically wins every single time because the damage a ranged person can do vs the damage a melee can do with the resources required to commit to fights is drastically different. Everybody for instance says Curse is useless, but in Arena and duels it's basically unbeatable because it outputs so much damage while moving and has so many options for sustain that it's very difficult to counter and most DPS builds when changing to a Guardian helm sacrifice a lot with that slot while Cursed doesn't. One of the worst things I've ever fought was 1H Curse+Taproot/Specter Hood/Merc Jacket/Guardian Boots. I don't think there was anything in the game that could compete with that: you had to have insane damage to burn through the hits, you're constantly taking damage, and they had so much extra health and sustain that no matter what you were dead within 30 seconds by the time the second Death Curse came out and they always reached it; and in Solo Fights I just don't see what would counter that. I even tried using Parry to at least block the Death Curse but the overall damage+sustain was so heavy that I died to the basic Curse damage, and I was wearing a Mage Robe myself. This build is pretty garbage for open world, because your target would just run away and that would be that; but in closed forced-fights It was basically unstoppable unless maybe I was using a bow and had similar sustain. I tried everything I could think of with Swords/Daggers pre-patch 8 though. I also feel like if the solution to cloth is wearing cloth than that isn't a solution and just adds to the problem, which is normally what happens in this game. Cloth is super powerful and ranged does it better, which was this entire thread.

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Use a demon cape, Hunter shoes and a soldier armor..any weapon with good CC and u have a valid chance..e.g. grovekeeper or infernal..or a simple quarterstaff.. heck even a black monk can do the job..
      This is exclusively because of Demon Cape, remove that and you'll be sunk. That doesn't exactly mean that things are balanced, in fact I would say Demon Cape needs a significant change as a full-tank shouldn't do such high DPS in the game by stunning and letting Demon Cape do the work. It's a cheese strat. I win a lot of fights wearing Soldier Armor with a Broadsword because I can burst down people for 700+ damage if they get below 50% and taste the Stalker Hood, but few weapons are going to be able to do that.
    • Sorry but somehow this is not a reasonable discussion. Someone who is just experienced in arena (5vs5 content btw) arguing with other players who are actually experience in PvP is nonesense.

      As already said try stuff out. Get experience.

      Or a better solution you play a ranged clothy, but pls don't cry than when you get owned by melees.
    • Heliande wrote:

      Sorry but somehow this is not a reasonable discussion. Someone who is just experienced in arena (5vs5 content btw) arguing with other players who are actually experience in PvP is nonesense.

      As already said try stuff out. Get experience.

      Or a better solution you play a ranged clothy, but pls don't cry than when you get owned by melees.
      Really? Over 1100 matches, fighting just about every build in the game multiple times over in an even field, is nonsense? You're delusional.
    • Acoustic wrote:

      Heliande wrote:

      Sorry but somehow this is not a reasonable discussion. Someone who is just experienced in arena (5vs5 content btw) arguing with other players who are actually experience in PvP is nonesense.

      As already said try stuff out. Get experience.

      Or a better solution you play a ranged clothy, but pls don't cry than when you get owned by melees.
      Really? Over 1100 matches, fighting just about every build in the game multiple times over in an even field, is nonsense? You're delusional.
      Might go outside of arenas, you will get better results...
    • Owlsane wrote:

      Acoustic wrote:

      Heliande wrote:

      Sorry but somehow this is not a reasonable discussion. Someone who is just experienced in arena (5vs5 content btw) arguing with other players who are actually experience in PvP is nonesense.

      As already said try stuff out. Get experience.

      Or a better solution you play a ranged clothy, but pls don't cry than when you get owned by melees.
      Really? Over 1100 matches, fighting just about every build in the game multiple times over in an even field, is nonsense? You're delusional.
      Might go outside of arenas, you will get better results...
      I just did! You were right, when I walked into the Black Zone I was automatically given the passive, "Instantly Kills Everybody" on my Sword and I just had to switch to it! Weird that SBI not only put this in the game but never tells anybody about it, so you'd never know that melee are magically better outside of the Royals! /s
    • Acoustic wrote:

      Owlsane wrote:

      Acoustic wrote:

      Heliande wrote:

      Sorry but somehow this is not a reasonable discussion. Someone who is just experienced in arena (5vs5 content btw) arguing with other players who are actually experience in PvP is nonesense.

      As already said try stuff out. Get experience.

      Or a better solution you play a ranged clothy, but pls don't cry than when you get owned by melees.
      Really? Over 1100 matches, fighting just about every build in the game multiple times over in an even field, is nonsense? You're delusional.
      Might go outside of arenas, you will get better results...
      I just did! You were right, when I walked into the Black Zone I was automatically given the passive, "Instantly Kills Everybody" on my Sword and I just had to switch to it! Weird that SBI not only put this in the game but never tells anybody about it, so you'd never know that melee are magically better outside of the Royals! /s
      melees have some of the best burst combos in the game... u must be smokin or trollin